Author Topic: Useless keys on a keyboard  (Read 31409 times)

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Offline calderoats

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Useless keys on a keyboard
« on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 07:01:13 »
I've been debating with some friends about why a keyboard still has a bunch of outdated keys. Check out the image below.

http://i.imgur.com/MEYrik3.png?1

In my opinion everything in red is useless and in orange is debatable.

  • Scroll lock and Pause break. These are possible the most useless keys, I just don't see why'd you need it these days.
  • Menu key, why?
  • Numpad is useful for heavy excel/data users, but honestly these days days barely anybody does that much manual number input and if you really need it, you just buy a separate board. Also those extra function key options on it are repetitive
  • Insert, Home, PgUp/Dn, delete, end... I don't use any of them, except for the occasional delete or accidental (+annoying) insert. Things as Home, End and delete, I use the shortcuts and not the keys. I assume most power users rather use short-cuts?   
  • Capslock is debatable. I personally use it because I type quite a lot of pinyin (Chinese). It allows you to switch between pinyin and regular. But I rarely use it for its actual function. In my opinion more efficient methods can be applied to activate capslock.

What's your opinion?
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Offline kurplop

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 07:08:47 »
I use delete and caps lock often but have never used the others that you mentioned. I'm not even sure what some of them are for.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 07:09:43 »
Scroll lock is useful in excel.

Also you can use win key + pause/break to open the windows system screen.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 July 2015, 07:11:21 by SpAmRaY »

Offline azhdar

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 07:18:45 »


Red is worthless to me.

Orange is not that important but can be mapped elsewhere.
Rshift because I almost always type on the Lshift with my pinky.
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Offline inanis

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 08:04:25 »
Ctrl + Alt + Insert is the equivalent of Ctrl + Alt + Delete in a Windows Virtual Machine. If you use any kind of virtualization solution, you will find you use the Insert key very often. Whoever designed the FC660 must have realized this as well.

For the other keys, while I use a 60% most of the time, I still use Home, End, Page Up, Page Down and the arrow keys very often. They are on the function layer, for sure, but I still find them very useful keys.
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Offline Tactile

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 08:12:02 »
There are some KVM switches which are triggered with the scroll lock key.

In my AHK script I remap the pause key to suspend the computer. I thought the label appropriate  ;)
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 July 2015, 08:22:49 by Tactile »
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Offline azhdar

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 08:13:37 »
Scroll lock is useful in excel.

Also you can use win key + pause/break to open the windows system screen.


There are some KVM switches which are triggered with the scroll lok key.

In my AHK script I remap the pause key to suspend the computer. I thought the label appropriate  ;)

Still those are keys that don't really need to be on the main layer.
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Offline seville57

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 09:00:14 »
I've been debating with some friends about why a keyboard still has a bunch of outdated keys. Check out the image below.

http://i.imgur.com/MEYrik3.png?1

In my opinion everything in red is useless and in orange is debatable.

  • Scroll lock and Pause break. These are possible the most useless keys, I just don't see why'd you need it these days.
  • Menu key, why?
  • Numpad is useful for heavy excel/data users, but honestly these days days barely anybody does that much manual number input and if you really need it, you just buy a separate board. Also those extra function key options on it are repetitive
  • Insert, Home, PgUp/Dn, delete, end... I don't use any of them, except for the occasional delete or accidental (+annoying) insert. Things as Home, End and delete, I use the shortcuts and not the keys. I assume most power users rather use short-cuts?   
  • Capslock is debatable. I personally use it because I type quite a lot of pinyin (Chinese). It allows you to switch between pinyin and regular. But I rarely use it for its actual function. In my opinion more efficient methods can be applied to activate capslock.

What's your opinion?
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Offline jerue

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 09:43:18 »
I can't picture most users using SysRq (not print screen) or Pause/Break. I picture a lot of users using CAPS LOCK THAT SHOULD NOT USE A CAPS LOCK.

Offline calderoats

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 11:40:54 »
Show Image


Red is worthless to me.

Orange is not that important but can be mapped elsewhere.
Rshift because I almost always type on the Lshift with my pinky.

I can agree on this, except for the F keys, but that would be for its Fn+ functions. Such as media keys, led brightness and they're often used for key binding useful things .

Print screen, we have (native) apps for that.

Right side moodier keys I can only justify for left handed people.

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Offline GL1TCH3D

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 11:51:23 »
I've done my own map of keys that are absolutely useless to me in my every day typing and navigating on windows




After that I did my own map of keys that are useless to me for gaming



Between these two images I can clearly see why the HHKB layout is really nice for me for the bottom row and why it probably does well for a lot of other people as well.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 July 2015, 11:52:57 by GL1TCH3D »

Offline calderoats

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 12:09:39 »
I've done my own map of keys that are absolutely useless to me in my every day typing and navigating on windows

Show Image



After that I did my own map of keys that are useless to me for gaming

Show Image


Between these two images I can clearly see why the HHKB layout is really nice for me for the bottom row and why it probably does well for a lot of other people as well.

I can totally agree on this. Until so far nobody has given a real legit reason why we have these extra buttons still there. You can also get home function by Fn+left arrow, and end by Fn+right arrow.
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Offline GL1TCH3D

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 12:13:27 »
I've done my own map of keys that are absolutely useless to me in my every day typing and navigating on windows

Show Image



After that I did my own map of keys that are useless to me for gaming

Show Image


Between these two images I can clearly see why the HHKB layout is really nice for me for the bottom row and why it probably does well for a lot of other people as well.

I can totally agree on this. Until so far nobody has given a real legit reason why we have these extra buttons still there. You can also get home function by Fn+left arrow, and end by Fn+right arrow.

Oh I'm just saying that for the regular layout, excluding the Fn layer, I don't need these keys.

My GoN mobik has the following layers:







The last image is a bit outdated, added the corresponding numlock key a while ago (though honestly I never use it, just mapped it to show how it would work as a pseudo numpad)

As for your wondering why manufacturers leave those keys in. Just look in this thread at the different keys that people do and don't use. You'll have different answers pertaining to each specific individual and the manufacturers would rather just keep selling the standard layout rather than try and invent a "modern" layout that people will like more.

When I'm answering recommendations for keyboards I often see people absolutely requiring the numpad (even though you could get a cheap separate one) or "X" functions with "Y" add ons.

They'd rather make a keyboard that anyone can use, even if some of the keys are superfluous rather than have a keyboard that only some people will buy.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 July 2015, 12:16:52 by GL1TCH3D »

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 12:14:17 »
106436-0
I am building a keyboard with this layout. It was supposed to have all the keys I need and none more. Maybe I won't need the left Meta/Win key.
I split the Space Bar only because Why-The-Hell-Not, so maybe the Backspace key above Return is superfluous and should really have been a Delete instead with the 1u Del key be the ~/§ key that I never ever use.

I need the Home/End/PgUp/PgDn keys for text editing. I am addicted to moving around with them in an obsessive-compulsive way to make sure that there are no extra spaces at the ends of lines anywhere.
I have also removed the scrollwheel from my mouse, using the PgUp/PgDn keys instead when scrolling web pages and other documents.

However, I do use the PrtScr/ScrLk/Pause keys ... as media keys. I have them mapped to Prev, Next and Play/Pause.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 July 2015, 12:16:45 by Findecanor »
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Offline Shaussman

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 13:10:30 »
When I'm answering recommendations for keyboards I often see people absolutely requiring the numpad (even though you could get a cheap separate one)

Having a separate one is a bit of the pain, though, and it doesn't bring about the same experience. You have twice as many wires, more stuff to move around, it won't necessarily stay put next to your keyboard, etc. In general I'd rather have it then not.

I think I could do fine with a 10kl layout, though, or a 75%. Overall, something like this would most likely be the smallest layout I could use:


I like having the numpad if I need it, but with FN+Numlock or some such thing the rest of the keys would work. I actually thought this up a few weeks ago and sort of want to try building it at some point.
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Offline GL1TCH3D

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 13:25:26 »
When I'm answering recommendations for keyboards I often see people absolutely requiring the numpad (even though you could get a cheap separate one)

Having a separate one is a bit of the pain, though, and it doesn't bring about the same experience. You have twice as many wires, more stuff to move around, it won't necessarily stay put next to your keyboard, etc.

Frankly that's exactly why I would want to have the separate one. I don't want it next to my keyboard the entire time. I find full sized keyboards too long especially when gaming. I don't normally use the numpad for typing so I'd be fine with having it stored away until I need it.

Offline Shaussman

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 13:32:37 »
I just don't like the idea of having something that won't stay put, even when in use. I shuffle my keyboard around a little bit as I change my seating position/posture, and having a numpad that wasn't quite in the same spot relative to the board every time I shifted would be super annoying.
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Offline chyros

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 16:17:12 »
Here's my rarely used (orange) and never used (red) keys.



My optimal layout woudl probably be with a bigass enter, the backslash key between left ctrl and alt, one winkey in the other recess, the esc where ¬ is, and F12 where Break is.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 July 2015, 16:18:54 by chyros »
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Offline rm-rf

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #18 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 16:40:26 »
Personally. I use scroll lock, and pause/break on a daily basis.
They are not useless at all.

I think what it boils down to is what you are doing on your computer...

Offline daerid

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 16:42:19 »
I've been debating with some friends about why a keyboard still has a bunch of outdated keys. Check out the image below.

http://i.imgur.com/MEYrik3.png?1

In my opinion everything in red is useless and in orange is debatable.

  • Scroll lock and Pause break. These are possible the most useless keys, I just don't see why'd you need it these days.
  • Menu key, why?
  • Numpad is useful for heavy excel/data users, but honestly these days days barely anybody does that much manual number input and if you really need it, you just buy a separate board. Also those extra function key options on it are repetitive
  • Insert, Home, PgUp/Dn, delete, end... I don't use any of them, except for the occasional delete or accidental (+annoying) insert. Things as Home, End and delete, I use the shortcuts and not the keys. I assume most power users rather use short-cuts?   
  • Capslock is debatable. I personally use it because I type quite a lot of pinyin (Chinese). It allows you to switch between pinyin and regular. But I rarely use it for its actual function. In my opinion more efficient methods can be applied to activate capslock.

What's your opinion?


Every so often this comes up, and I'll say the same thing I always do: I use every damn key on the keyboard. Granted, I use Scroll Lock less than most, but when I do need it, I'm super happy I have it.
« Last Edit: Fri, 24 July 2015, 16:47:47 by daerid »

Offline demik

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 24 July 2015, 16:44:27 »
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #21 on: Sun, 26 July 2015, 03:10:01 »
Have you been running some software that counts the number of times you press each key?  Might provide some interesting statistics.

Scroll Lock does something in Excel that catches me by surprise when I accidentally hit it.  Kinda odd, but maybe useful to people who use Excel on a regular basis.

Ctrl-Break works at MS-DOS prompt when ^C gets queued in the buffer.  Otherwise you have to wait for the buffer to empty until the ^C is recognised.

Menu is nice sometimes when using an editor, as it gives you various text manipulation options without having to take your hands off the keyboard or right-click with the mouse, potentially losing the cursor position.  Unfortunately most of the keyboards I use these days either remap the menu key to Fn, or don't have one at all.  I miss it a little bit.

I prefer TKL keyboards, and I only really miss the numpad for entering IP addresses.

Navigation keys I use all the time in various editors and IDEs.

Caps Lock I do actually use, as work's coding standards need all SQL to be in uppercase.
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Offline jerr

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #22 on: Sun, 26 July 2015, 03:28:17 »
I use all the debatable keys frequently, but the useless ones I never use.

Offline davkol

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #23 on: Sun, 26 July 2015, 05:38:10 »
I use all keys on my Noppoo Choc Mini, except I wish it had Insert instead of Pause, and the left Shift was split into the Shift and international keys. However, I use 75% or tenkeyless keyboards mostly for compatibility with software that I can't reconfigure (or it isn't worth it), such as others' MS Windows, Visual Studio or some games.

My very own primary setup is different though. I have function keys on a layer. Navigation cluster including arrows on a layer as well. Only 40 out of 47-48 physical alphanumeric keys. But a whole lot of mirrored extra modifiers, i.e., 2×(3×Ctrl, 2×Alt, Shift, Super, AltGr, L1, Fn). ErgoDox for now, of course.
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 July 2015, 05:42:48 by davkol »

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 26 July 2015, 06:43:34 »
Control and pause/break I use lots while debugging macros at work, it could be relegated to a layer.

Insert is for the abomination that is SAP, which randomly switches between overwrite and not modes.  Again, it could be on a layer.

Page up/down, home, end and arrows I use combined with shift and/or control to select or move past blocks of text - shift control FN and another key would be possible if FN was next to ctrl, but the standard is to put menu between them :mad:

If keyboards were column stagger rather than random I wouldn't mind getting rid of the numberpad and using a layer but my current plan for work, where I do lots of number input, is a 60% plus numberpad.

Caps lock?   I haven't coded in a language that needs it for a while, but even if I did it would be better there so it can't be pressed accidentally!
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Offline jacobolus

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 26 July 2015, 14:37:36 »
Orange = worthless to have dedicated keys for, should either be scrapped or put on a layer

Purple = poorly positioned, taking more reaching than necessary

White = arbitrary inefficient asymmetrical layout, but at least all these keys are in reach

Spacebar = damn that thing is a waste of space


Offline daerid

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 26 July 2015, 14:42:24 »
Caps Lock I do actually use, as work's coding standards need all SQL to be in uppercase.

O_o

Spacebar = damn that thing is a waste of space

Idunno, Every time I use a board without a wide spacebar, I end up with pain in my thumb :-\
« Last Edit: Sun, 26 July 2015, 14:45:25 by daerid »

Offline GL1TCH3D

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 26 July 2015, 16:49:04 »
Caps Lock I do actually use, as work's coding standards need all SQL to be in uppercase.

O_o

Spacebar = damn that thing is a waste of space

Idunno, Every time I use a board without a wide spacebar, I end up with pain in my thumb :-\

I'm the opposite. I always hit the exact center of the spacebar.


Offline 0100010

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 08:37:27 »
1 . Scroll Lock and Pause/Break - Scroll lock gets used in excel when needed (which is a lot).  Pause / Break is used for debugging in old compiler environments.
2. Menu key - Use this in excel a lot too - much faster than right clicking.
3. Numpad is useful for heavy excel/data users, but honestly these days days barely anybody does that much manual number input and if you really need it, you just buy a separate board. Self explanatory.
4. Insert, Home, PgUp/Dn, Delete, End. The 6 pack is extremely helpful in navigating.
5. Capslock. This is the only key I don't really use that often.

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Offline TopreFan333

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 08:57:34 »
Rshift because I almost always type on the Lshift with my pinky.

If you're using correct typing form, you need both shift keys, absolutely. You're slowing yourself down if you only use one.

Offline azhdar

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 09:01:52 »
Rshift because I almost always type on the Lshift with my pinky.

If you're using correct typing form, you need both shift keys, absolutely. You're slowing yourself down if you only use one.


Yeah I know it's a bad habbit but I don't type with ten fingers , 8-9 at best, the pinky only does Rshift,Rctrl, and the iso key right next to Rshift.
I would need to work on my technique at some point.
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Offline Shaussman

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 09:17:00 »
Rshift because I almost always type on the Lshift with my pinky.

If you're using correct typing form, you need both shift keys, absolutely. You're slowing yourself down if you only use one.

Eh, what works, works. The notion that there's a "correct" way to type always sat wrong with me, as long as you're touch typing you're pretty much good and speed will come with time.
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Offline davkol

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 09:45:44 »
Who cares about speed nowadays… Pinkie strain and awkward finger stretches/curls OTOH. I learned the hard way.

Offline TopreFan333

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 10:11:03 »
Eh, what works, works. The notion that there's a "correct" way to type always sat wrong with me, as long as you're touch typing you're pretty much good and speed will come with time.

Sure, the human hand is very adaptable -- but why make extra work for yourself? I'm lazy and find that spreading the work out among all 10 fingers is easiest.

Offline Shaussman

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 10:43:39 »
Sure, the human hand is very adaptable -- but why make extra work for yourself? I'm lazy and find that spreading the work out among all 10 fingers is easiest.

They tried forcing the normal homerow stuff on me in back in 4th/5th grade and it was always super uncomfortable and bad to use, not to mention that it felt super clumsy. I really just ended up learning to type just by playing MMOs and chatting to folks on there.

I just feel like the best bet is to get people typing and let them figure out what's comfortable for them. Trying to force myself to type a certain way (1 finger per key, doing it some specific way) is a lot more effort then just typing however feels naturally, and my speed hasn't suffered for it, so sticking with what's comfortable is the way to go.
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 July 2015, 10:45:36 by Shaussman »
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Offline davkol

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 12:12:43 »
They tried forcing the normal running stuff on me in back in PE and it was always super uncomfortable and bad to use, not to mention that it felt super clumsy. I really just ended up learning to run just by running around. Who cares that I couldn't run more than a few kms and then I ended up with a knee injury several years later.

Different body part, same story. I don't deny that some teachers are idiots and most mainstream equipment sucks though.

Posture is the same thing. People figure it out on their own and later wonder, why they have back pain.

edit: a word
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 July 2015, 12:16:35 by davkol »

Offline Jixr

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 12:32:29 »
for most people, i see it, but for me, someone who's work requires all caps text, i need my caps lock right where it is, and the escape key as well.

According to whatpulse, esc is my #2 press key, and i'm at about 400k presses for it.

Offline Shaussman

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 12:50:31 »
They tried forcing the normal running stuff on me in back in PE and it was always super uncomfortable and bad to use, not to mention that it felt super clumsy. I really just ended up learning to run just by running around. Who cares that I couldn't run more than a few kms and then I ended up with a knee injury several years later.

Not quite the same thing, though. Not to mention that your posture/how you hold your hands are going to cause injuries, not which fingers you use to push which keys.

Posture is the same thing. People figure it out on their own and later wonder, why they have back pain.

Indeed, this is something that you can definitely do wrong.
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Offline davkol

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 13:18:13 »
You're ignoring unnatural finger stretches/curls and finger overload.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 15:56:31 »
They tried forcing the normal running stuff on me in back in PE and it was always super uncomfortable and bad to use, not to mention that it felt super clumsy. I really just ended up learning to run just by running around. [...] Posture is the same thing. People figure it out on their own and later wonder, why they have back pain.
If we didn’t wear inflexible padded shoes, and spent less time sitting in chairs and more time using our bodies, then “just running around” would be a pretty good way to learn to run, as well as a way to have decent posture.

I see keyboards the same way: if our keyboards were shaped in a way which afforded an obvious comfortable technique, people would have much better chance of using them comfortably.

The main problem is not training or lack of training. The problem is an environment that is significantly different than the one our bodies are evolved to handle, plus a bunch of bad interventions to attempt to fix the new problems that cropped up, driven by poor understanding + marketing for consumer product solutions.

In general, our society is really bad at circulating solutions when there’s no profit to be made, and really bad at fixing root causes instead of treating symptoms, especially when there’s someone making money on both causing the problem and patching up the bad impacts.

(Though sometimes our modern solutions to acute problems are pretty nice, like antibiotics and doctors who can fix broken bones.)
« Last Edit: Mon, 27 July 2015, 16:04:55 by jacobolus »

Offline Computer-Lab in Basement

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #40 on: Mon, 27 July 2015, 15:58:36 »
guysthespacebarisobviouslythemostuselesskeyofthemall;imeancomeonewhoneedsspaces...
tp thread is tp thread
Sometimes it's like he accidentally makes a thread instead of a google search.

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Offline calderoats

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #41 on: Tue, 28 July 2015, 01:26:54 »

for most people, i see it, but for me, someone who's work requires all caps text, i need my caps lock right where it is, and the escape key as well.

According to whatpulse, esc is my #2 press key, and i'm at about 400k presses for it.

That is mad much, I would consider placing ESC somewhere more comfortable in that case.
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Offline cutterline

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 29 July 2015, 02:23:47 »
Menu key is not useless if you're relying heavily on keyboard (read:lazy to move your hand) and know what you're doing.
If you mistype (or forgot the correct spelling) something and you can move to the middle of the word (arrow type), press menu key and voila, word suggestion.
It also serve as right click in most cases.

Insert, Home, etc themselves are not useless but are misplaced these days. They needs to be layered in the 60%, we actually need standard for that. So you're right it is useless to put in that location.

Scroll lock and Pause/Break is actually a legacy keys, nowadays there is a shortcut for those, I think e.g ctrl+c for cmd in windows for pause/break

Functions keys is better off layered in the number keys, so nobody needs to stretch their hand far away like alt+f4 and Esc layered inside the ~ button (or ~ layered inside Esc)

Numpad... well debateable, you can get another numpad board for that. So doesn't matter

Capslock should be swapped with L-ctrl as L-ctrl is more used that capslock

Well, that's for me. Probably because I'm very lazy to move to mouse. It is quicker to do with most of the tasks with keyboard

Lastly the massive space in space bar needs to be shaved off, make it closer to minila air layout, with 2 fn keys replacing. Japanese actually realized this inefficiency :D
Majority types with 9 fingers anyway, so we need to start utilizing one of those thumb with fn key or any other thing in that space.
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 July 2015, 02:28:14 by cutterline »

Offline paicrai

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Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 29 July 2015, 12:49:02 »
theyre there for the people that use them
if the vast majority doesnt use them thats not a reason to remove them cuz they still serve a function/purpose
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Offline 0100010

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 29 July 2015, 13:25:00 »
Thinking more about how I type , I rarely if ever use the Windows key.  Still not useless though.
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Offline chyros

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 29 July 2015, 14:09:20 »
Thinking more about how I type , I rarely if ever use the Windows key.  Still not useless though.
I've found it extremely useful for locking a computer with win+L. Win+m for minimise all is quite useful for pre-win 7 stations too. Other than that, never use it. I rebound F9 to be a winkey if I use a board without one at work.
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Offline daerid

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 29 July 2015, 18:41:45 »
I can't live without winkey shortcuts (win+arrows especially)

Offline jerue

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 29 July 2015, 19:18:08 »
Forgive me if this sounds noob-ish, but the actual default keycap for Ctrl on Realforce boards is useless. Why does it have a window for the LED? I don't think you can even get that led on the RF to shine through there unless you have it set to Caps Lock.

Offline Joey Quinn

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 29 July 2015, 19:22:28 »
I never use right shift or the right keys on the bottom row so I normally try to do something useful with them.
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Offline daerid

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Re: Useless keys on a keyboard
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 29 July 2015, 21:33:17 »
Forgive me if this sounds noob-ish, but the actual default keycap for Ctrl on Realforce boards is useless. Why does it have a window for the LED? I don't think you can even get that led on the RF to shine through there unless you have it set to Caps Lock.

Yeah, that's true, but I think that some models don't/didn't come with the replacement caps.