Author Topic: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?  (Read 2805 times)

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Offline IvanStroganov

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Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 08:18:53 »
Since Whites are my favorite MX switches but I have them only on a switch tester, I was messing around, taking different switches apart, switching parts around and trying to "hack" Blues or Greens into Whites.
Redditor /u/ripster55 did some great work on this: http://imgur.com/a/wuToY but in the end the "Soft Click" still seems to be a bit of a mystery.
he comes to the conclusion that it might be different plastics on the slider parts which seemed the most plausible to me as well.
While messing around I had some temporary success. I made a Blue into a White by switching the springs around. I think I put in a stronger spring and is was actually even better than. a White. Felt the same but was even quieter.
However, that didn't stick. Its back to normal now, no matter what spring I use. I have taken my Whites apart so many times now that I have apparently killed the "Soft Click". They now feel and sound pretty much like a Blue (not as loud and snappy as a Green, though).
That leads me to believe that the "Soft Click" might indeed come from the lube (that is now gone on my Whites from taking them apart so often) and that apart from the slightly stronger springs, Whites are built identical to Blues.
I will try relubing them with different lubes, but that doesn't seem like a very exact process to me to reliably convert 100 Blues into Whites...

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 08:30:25 »
For real keyboard science your gonna want to go ask over at r/mechanicalkeyboards

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2s2cat/the_mystery_of_the_cherry_mx_white_switch/
« Last Edit: Tue, 19 April 2016, 08:33:38 by SpAmRaY »

Offline IvanStroganov

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 08:41:58 »
thats where that imgur album is from. they didn't really come to a final conclusion

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 08:51:41 »
thats where that imgur album is from. they didn't really come to a final conclusion
We aren't a very decisive bunch either.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 09:02:17 »
What's so special about whites?
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Offline IvanStroganov

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 09:07:35 »
What's so special about whites?

they have a soft-click. they feel like a blue or green clicky switch (because they essentially are) but are much more quiet. and nobody really seems to know why ;)
if you like an mx green or blue for its clickyness but they are too loud for you, white is what you want

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 09:08:52 »
What's so special about whites?

they have a soft-click. they feel like a blue or green clicky switch (because they essentially are) but are much more quiet. and nobody really seems to know why ;)
if you like an mx green or blue for its clickyness but they are too loud for you, white is what you want

Sounds interesting... but whites are no longer being made right?
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Offline IvanStroganov

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 09:20:27 »
Sounds interesting... but whites are no longer being made right?

thats what I heard. maxkeyboard however still sells them and has been for quite some time now.

I made a quick video comparing stock blues to lubed blues.
the lubed ones are pretty much like whites now (but with the lighter blue spring, of course)



note: I didn't demonstrate the whites you see there because they aren't stock anymore

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 09:23:29 »
Sounds interesting... but whites are no longer being made right?

thats what I heard. maxkeyboard however still sells them and has been for quite some time now.

I made a quick video comparing stock blues to lubed blues.
the lubed ones are pretty much like whites now (but with the lighter blue spring, of course)



note: I didn't demonstrate the whites you see there because they aren't stock anymore

This is all very interesting.
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Offline IvanStroganov

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 09:57:17 »
This is all very interesting.

this might be a little better:


I threw in some greens and what I think should be stock whites

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 10:00:44 »
This is all very interesting.

this might be a little better:


I threw in some greens and what I think should be stock whites

To me, those blues above the green are most quiet of them all.
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Offline jaffers

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 10:13:48 »
On a board of MX Whites, the sound and feel of the switch varies throughout the keyboard, this would usually be off putting or feel bad, but for whites... its really nice. I've no idea how they've done it but the switch is my favourite stock cherry

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 10:24:07 »
On a board of MX Whites, the sound and feel of the switch varies throughout the keyboard, this would usually be off putting or feel bad, but for whites... its really nice. I've no idea how they've done it but the switch is my favourite stock cherry

A quiet clicky switch would be really nice. I never had the pleasure to try whites in person.
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Offline IvanStroganov

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 10:26:37 »
To me, those blues above the green are most quiet of them all.

those are the lubed ones. they are absolutely the most quiet while still feeling clicky, as blues do.

I've no idea how they've done it but the switch is my favourite stock cherry

thats the big question. at this point I really do think its the added lube (that would also explain why a lot of people say they don't sound consistent througout a board)
« Last Edit: Tue, 19 April 2016, 10:54:02 by IvanStroganov »

Offline IvanStroganov

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 10:44:08 »
A quiet clicky switch would be really nice. I never had the pleasure to try whites in person.

if you have some Blues around, simply put some lube/grease on the 2 slider legs



that gives you a pretty quiet blue switch (very similar to a white but with a tat less activation force because of the blues weaker spring)
 it didn't really work with greens, though. probably because their spring is just to heavy/fast and doesn't care much about the lube

oh and I found out something else fun about the mx greens. if you superglue the white slider to the green bottom part (in that picture) so that it can't slide up and down, you'll get a switch that doesn't move at all until activation force is reached and than instantly collapses. very much like a topre (no lube required, the green won't click anymore)
« Last Edit: Tue, 19 April 2016, 10:55:28 by IvanStroganov »

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 11:16:14 »
oh and I found out something else fun about the mx greens. if you superglue the white slider to the green bottom part (in that picture) so that it can't slide up and down, you'll get a switch that doesn't move at all until activation force is reached and than instantly collapses. very much like a topre (no lube required, the green won't click anymore)

Interesting... have you done that to a whole board already?
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Offline IvanStroganov

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 11:27:15 »
Interesting... have you done that to a whole board already?

nope.. dont have that many greens at hand. and if I were to do it for real, I'd rather use epoxy than superglue because SG will break off eventually.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 11:29:20 »
Have you seen the jailhouse mod?

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 14:15:02 »
Interesting... have you done that to a whole board already?

nope.. dont have that many greens at hand. and if I were to do it for real, I'd rather use epoxy than superglue because SG will break off eventually.

What happens? SG becomes hard an breaks? Good to know.
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Offline iLLucionist

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Offline rowdy

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 21:37:24 »
On a board of MX Whites, the sound and feel of the switch varies throughout the keyboard, this would usually be off putting or feel bad, but for whites... its really nice. I've no idea how they've done it but the switch is my favourite stock cherry

A quiet clicky switch would be really nice. I never had the pleasure to try whites in person.

Isn't the point of having a clicky switch to make a lot of noise?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

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Offline KnivesM

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 19 April 2016, 22:13:19 »
On a board of MX Whites, the sound and feel of the switch varies throughout the keyboard, this would usually be off putting or feel bad, but for whites... its really nice. I've no idea how they've done it but the switch is my favourite stock cherry

A quiet clicky switch would be really nice. I never had the pleasure to try whites in person.

Isn't the point of having a clicky switch to make a lot of noise?
To some yes, to others no.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 01:00:51 »
On a board of MX Whites, the sound and feel of the switch varies throughout the keyboard, this would usually be off putting or feel bad, but for whites... its really nice. I've no idea how they've done it but the switch is my favourite stock cherry

A quiet clicky switch would be really nice. I never had the pleasure to try whites in person.

Isn't the point of having a clicky switch to make a lot of noise?
To some yes, to others no.

But a quiet clicky switch would just be a tactile switch, like clears or browns.  Or whites, apparently.
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 04:00:56 »
On a board of MX Whites, the sound and feel of the switch varies throughout the keyboard, this would usually be off putting or feel bad, but for whites... its really nice. I've no idea how they've done it but the switch is my favourite stock cherry

A quiet clicky switch would be really nice. I never had the pleasure to try whites in person.

Isn't the point of having a clicky switch to make a lot of noise?
To some yes, to others no.

But a quiet clicky switch would just be a tactile switch, like clears or browns.  Or whites, apparently.

Well.. I would like a clicky switch, but I personally cannot stand the noise that MX Blues make. The sound is too high pitched for me.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 05:28:58 »
On a board of MX Whites, the sound and feel of the switch varies throughout the keyboard, this would usually be off putting or feel bad, but for whites... its really nice. I've no idea how they've done it but the switch is my favourite stock cherry

A quiet clicky switch would be really nice. I never had the pleasure to try whites in person.

Isn't the point of having a clicky switch to make a lot of noise?
To some yes, to others no.

But a quiet clicky switch would just be a tactile switch, like clears or browns.  Or whites, apparently.

Well.. I would like a clicky switch, but I personally cannot stand the noise that MX Blues make. The sound is too high pitched for me.

I liked it, and MX greens even more, until I got a BS keyboard.

Now I find blues and greens too high pitched.  Tick tick tick instead of clack clack clack!
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

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Offline IvanStroganov

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 07:40:03 »

But a quiet clicky switch would just be a tactile switch, like clears or browns.  Or whites, apparently.

not really.. the lubed blue still feels like a clicky switch. you still feel the sharp click, you just don't hear it as much anymore. clears or browns have more of a soft bump. very different feeling

Offline IvanStroganov

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 07:49:13 »

What happens? SG becomes hard an breaks? Good to know.

yeah, I tried with superglue but it never holds for long. either because it doesn't like the ABS or because the plastic surface is just too smooth for the glue to have anything to grab on to. you'd have to sand the plastic surface to make them rough for the glue to stick, but that is simply isn't practical.

epoxy should work somewhat better or even carefully "welding" them together using acetone and a fine brush


I made a video comparing the jailhouse mod, will post later. with the jailhouse thing, you'll definitely lose the click. makes blues into browns with shorter travel distance and the tactile bump right at the start instead of the middle.

Offline merlin64

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 20 April 2016, 14:20:34 »
How does the white click compare with vintage blue click?

I have a dolch pac with vintage blues, and they are noticeably more quiet than regular blues.

Offline iLLucionist

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Re: Is the "science" on MX Whites in, yet?
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 23 April 2016, 17:07:55 »

What happens? SG becomes hard an breaks? Good to know.

yeah, I tried with superglue but it never holds for long. either because it doesn't like the ABS or because the plastic surface is just too smooth for the glue to have anything to grab on to. you'd have to sand the plastic surface to make them rough for the glue to stick, but that is simply isn't practical.

epoxy should work somewhat better or even carefully "welding" them together using acetone and a fine brush


I made a video comparing the jailhouse mod, will post later. with the jailhouse thing, you'll definitely lose the click. makes blues into browns with shorter travel distance and the tactile bump right at the start instead of the middle.

I am interested in that video.. Do you also do a sound comparison?
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