Compact, MX Clears, and PBT keycaps?

[MasterKuni]

Hi all, I'm currently shopping around for a keyboard that is compact (i.e. TKL or smaller) and quiet (i.e. MX Clears or similar).  As far as use cases go, I'll only be using this keyboard for coding at work.  Also, I really like the feel of PBT keycaps, so it'd be great if those came stock as well, but this isn't a complete deal-breaker.  Thus far, the only keyboard I've been able to find that fits the bill is the Poker 3.  Any other suggestions?

[rowdy]

Pok3r would be a good direction to head in - any reservations against getting one?

[tofgerl]

To be fair, while the Pok3r keycaps are very good, if you bought a custom set of dye-sub keycaps you would probably be much happier in the end. You would pay more, but buying a keyboard just for the keycaps is a little like picking a car by the color.

[rowdy]

Pok3r is programmable too, not many keyboards offer that.

[tofgerl]

Oh, I'm writing on a Pok3r. Love it. But I'm REALLY glad I changed keycaps, they were thin and annoying.

[keshley]

For stock keycaps, the  Pok3r isn't that bad at all. If you don't want to get keycaps right away, you could do much worse.

Mine is currently sitting in reserve right now, but its probably my second favorite keyboard of the ones I own (behind my HHKB).

HHKB fits the bill too, but is twice the price of the Pok3r. Spacebar is ABS stock, rest of the keys are a nice PBT. There's PBT spacebars floating around, and a lot of people swear by Topre, but if you haven't tried one first, it can be a hard price to swallow, plus the lack of 3rd party keysets.

[MasterKuni]

Thanks all!  Sounds like the POK3R is a winner.  I read some unfortunate reviews about legends on the stock keycaps fading, but it sounds like I should be considering getting replacements anyways.

Giving it some thought though, I'm starting to have some reservations about the 60% form factor.  I do a lot of work on the command line, and am currently unsure as to exactly how inconvenient it is going to be to not have dedicated arrow keys.

[tofgerl]

I had the same problem, but as soon as I moved the FN key to where the left ctrl key is by default (on the second layer, of course. You can't program the first layer) after moving ctrl to caps lock, it was much easier. I just press FN with my left hand (not even a finger, I just use the edge of my hand) and the arrow keys with my right hand (here I use fingers).

That was a complicated sentence...

[jcoffin1981]

This is the one thing I dislike about the Pok3r is the lack of dedicated arrows.  You can do what tofgerl mentioned and it makes it a little easier.  It is very awkward though using IJKL for arrows.  The V60 uses the Ctrl, ALT, Shift cluster to do this and you can turn it on/off and not have to use the Fn key each time, which makes it a lot easier.  You do give up the right shift when this feature is on though.  If you are changing the keycaps anyway, the V60 may be a better fit.  You give up the aluminum case though.

I have grown to like the keycaps very much on the Pok3r.  At first they were very hard and foreign and I hated them.  After using them it's hard to go back to thin ABS, though I like thick ABS.  I didn't know they were considered shi*** keycaps.  It that what the general feeling is?  I don't care about the legends fading ( I actually prefer it), but I do prefer the look of laser etched legends.  The edges blend in with the keycaps and it makes them more discrete.

[tofgerl]

Far from ****ty, but not a good example of PBT key caps.

[rowdy]

This is the one thing I dislike about the Pok3r is the lack of dedicated arrows.  You can do what tofgerl mentioned and it makes it a little easier.  It is very awkward though using IJKL for arrows.  The V60 uses the Ctrl, ALT, Shift cluster to do this and you can turn it on/off and not have to use the Fn key each time, which makes it a lot easier.  You do give up the right shift when this feature is on though.  If you are changing the keycaps anyway, the V60 may be a better fit.  You give up the aluminum case though.

I have grown to like the keycaps very much on the Pok3r.  At first they were very hard and foreign and I hated them.  After using them it's hard to go back to thin ABS, though I like thick ABS.  I didn't know they were considered shi*** keycaps.  It that what the general feeling is?  I don't care about the legends fading ( I actually prefer it), but I do prefer the look of laser etched legends.  The edges blend in with the keycaps and it makes them more discrete.

No arrow keys is 60%

How about a Leopold FC660M?  With MX clears.  And PBT keycaps.  And dedicated arrow keys?

[MasterKuni]

No arrow keys is 60%

How about a Leopold FC660M?  With MX clears.  And PBT keycaps.  And dedicated arrow keys?

This is definitely an interesting option I haven't considered, and I do like the dedicated arrow keys on the Leopold's layout.  Any idea who sells these things?  The clears in particular seem difficult to come by.

[yomammary]

No arrow keys is 60%

How about a Leopold FC660M?  With MX clears.  And PBT keycaps.  And dedicated arrow keys?

This is definitely an interesting option I haven't considered, and I do like the dedicated arrow keys on the Leopold's layout.  Any idea who sells these things?  The clears in particular seem difficult to come by.

Once every couple of months Massdrop runs a GB.
Or check the classifieds, just sold mine.

[inanis]

I do a lot of work on command line, and I use a 60% pretty much exclusively at work. It is very easy to get used to not having dedicated arrow keys. You just have to be willing to try to get used it. A lot of people give up, or don't even try it because they just assume that they NEED the dedicated keys. But once you get used to the FN layer it is like second nature. When I'm home I use an SSK and I'm constantly hitting FN (which is my caps lock key) + W to arrow up!

I actually like it better than dedicated arrow keys.

[ideus]

Poker would be a good start, and it has pretty much everything you required. Unless you want to make a custom keyboard, then you will need PCB, case, key caps and your selection of switches; however, at this point it seems you'd be better with a stock keyboard.

For the arrows, I'd suggest you to take a look at the Space-Fn concept that may be implemented in many ways, it makes dedicated arrows pretty much unnecessary. I use to be one of those that just cannot live without dedicated arrows, I spent so much time looking at weird layouts to fit them in a sixty, until I gave Space-Fn a try, and now, I am very happy with an almost standard 60% keyboard.

Good luck.

[davkol]

…and then there's the _other_ option: Cherry G80-1800. About as big as tenkeyless (one column wider; two columns, if you compare the case to a very compact tenkeyless case), while keeping basically all the keys. Stock keycaps are generally PBT, thick POM or thick ABS (doubleshot). There are the Leeku PCBs as well.

[jcoffin1981]

Poker would be a good start, and it has pretty much everything you required. Unless you want to make a custom keyboard, then you will need PCB, case, key caps and your selection of switches; however, at this point it seems you'd be better with a stock keyboard.

For the arrows, I'd suggest you to take a look at the Space-Fn concept that may be implemented in many ways, it makes dedicated arrows pretty much unnecessary. I use to be one of those that just cannot live without dedicated arrows, I spent so much time looking at weird layouts to fit them in a sixty, until I gave Space-Fn a try, and now, I am very happy with an almost standard 60% keyboard.

Good luck.

I liked the shift-alt-ctrl arrows on the v60.  I almost exclusively use the left shift for capitals so this worked well.  I could lay my fingers across all the arrows at the same time.  I'm always reaching for these keys which don't exist on the Pok3r.  In theory though this is better as i don't have to remove my hands from the home row using IJKL.  I kind of like the Fn key at caps lock, but maybe I will try this Space FN layout and see if I like it. 

[MasterKuni]

Alright, I finally bit and bought a poker!  Looking forward to seeing how it works out.  Thanks everyone for your input.