Author Topic: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?  (Read 50432 times)

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Offline zslane

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #50 on: Fri, 16 October 2015, 16:45:57 »
I'm not really concerned that non-automated re-launches might take an extra day or two to go through an e-mail exchange with a designer. I'm concerned that a designer might block a re-launch completely. Or keep negotiations in permanent statis over financial compensation. Or simply choose not to respond at all (or be unable to respond due to health/personal/family crises or whatever).

At least with a pre-arranged agreement (contract?), a webstore like PMK could, in theory, simply auto-launch subsequent runs when pre-orders reach a threshold, all without having to re-establish contact with the designer, or sign a new agreement, or anything that would potentially put new production runs on hold.

I mean, I realize that such an arrangement doesn't allow a designer to feel like they "own" the set all by themselves. They would have to cede some degree of control over production to someone else, making them feel a bit like freelance designers being hired out by SP rather than as self-directed artists in complete ownership of their "art", but I'm not sure the auteur theory really benefits anyone (least of all consumers) but the auteur here.

Keep in mind that I am envisioning a scenario in which SP only manages production and order fulfillment. None of this works, in my view, if they take editorial license with what a set looks like or is composed of (subject to hard manufacturing constraints, of course).

Offline Oobly

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #51 on: Fri, 16 October 2015, 17:19:09 »
Looks like they finally fixed the submit login. So now you can submit your design there.

---- the submit button says "Submit Product" - hehehe....

The license link is still broken, but you can shorten it to "pimpmykeyboard.com/product_images/Keyset-Designs--License-Royalty-Payments.pdf" and it works.

Well like I said feel free to use the site. I won't unless they make the changes I mentioned. I'm not stopping anyone, just pointing out some of the real and possible problems. I trust set designers to do what's best for the community more than I trust a company with a history of NOT doing that to start doing it all of a sudden.

I agree with Niomosy, we're going in circles. Wait and see is what I say, then we can revisit this discussion.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #52 on: Fri, 16 October 2015, 17:37:22 »
Hopefully SP will listen to your proposed changes and improvements will be made. A good-faith exchange of ideas between SP and designers stands to benefit everyone. But while you trust designers to be the guardians of "what's best for the community," I remain skeptical. When I heard that MiTo made it clear that Pulse would never be re-run, my faith in designers fell precipitously.

Offline tararais

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #53 on: Sat, 17 October 2015, 13:15:53 »
It seems strange, does SP just have less consumer awareness than MD? It's the only explanation I can think of for them having lower amounts of buyers and longer delivery time.

Offline tofgerl

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #54 on: Sat, 17 October 2015, 13:31:24 »
Of course! They're not consumer-facing in the least. The most consumer-like people they usually communicate with is people organizing GBs.

Offline Oobly

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #55 on: Sat, 17 October 2015, 15:57:35 »
It seems strange, does SP just have less consumer awareness than MD? It's the only explanation I can think of for them having lower amounts of buyers and longer delivery time.

Of course! They're not consumer-facing in the least. The most consumer-like people they usually communicate with is people organizing GBs.

On that note, I added some colour chips to my cart on the site, 'cos I need some to compare actual plastic to plastic for the Classic Space GB and noticed they didn't have one red listed. So I sent an email to Melissa to ask about the colour.

I have not yet received a reply from Melissa, but I have received TWO emails from PMK reminding me to complete my order...

Subject: "Don't forget! Complete your purchase at Pimpmykeyboard.com..."
Body: "Hi xxxx,

You recently made the smart choice of adding these items to your cart:
...
Sadly, you didn't complete your order. Don't forget--we produce a limited supply of our keysets, so sometimes when they're gone . . . they're gone forever. *insert dramatic music here*
..."

The bold part was bold in the email already...

Then this one:

Subject: "You're almost there . . ."
Body: "Hi xxxx,

Don't forget you added these awesome PimpMyKeyboard items to your cart:
...
Be sure to get them before they're gone!
..."

Yup, that's the spirit, cajole your customers into buying your products using scare tactics. Really gonna help you be popular....

@zslane: I appreciate your optimism that SP will do things well and provide the community with the sets they want, at a fair price and in enough quantity so everyone gets one, but forgive me for not being as optimistic. And while I respect MiTo for his proliferation of set designs and skill in choosing colourways, I would not consider him to be representative of the average community set designer. He tends to do things his own way...
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #56 on: Sat, 17 October 2015, 19:27:18 »
Optimistic would be too strong a word. Hopeful is more like it.

Those e-mails make me chuckle. The old "get them while they last!" tactic has been around since the dawn of salesmen. Notice how Amazon does essentially the same thing by showing (mostly) bogus in-stock figures in order to "cajole" consumers into ordering (and ordering quickly). Seems to be the new normal these days. Thanks Amazon!

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #57 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 19:59:38 »
I don't think I will be doing any of my novelty singles through their system since 5% of sales in single keycaps nets me virtually nothing, plus they will then have right to produce them at will...I think I will pass. I can't think of a single design that I would just give to them except maybe the Nuka Cola legend...but I would love to see them try to make those keycaps and sell them on their site...hehe
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Offline Niomosy

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #58 on: Wed, 21 October 2015, 20:13:15 »
Novelty singles would would definitely not be a good choice for PMK site at all. 

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 22 October 2015, 13:42:15 »
Nothing against the new PMK Store.

But you have to keep in mind the difference between MassDrop and PMK. PMK is niche store and its well known only by keyboard enthusasts like us. While MassDrop is very well known around the world. Its not so niche. It basically offers almost everything what a mens world need. Clothes, Audiophile stuff etc. It reaches more people. I am sure Carbon has been bought also by people who never knew about all that keyboard crazyness. Same for Danger Zone.

I turned to MassDrop because the PMK store was down and i feared that Carbon, in which i spend so much time and effort, is going to be forgotten and it will not be going real. Even me cared less for Carbon that time, until i decided to run it through MassDrop.

For me as Designer it was a pleasure to see those sell numbers. Not for the money but just for feel to made something relevant for some people.

Offline tofgerl

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #60 on: Thu, 22 October 2015, 14:00:02 »
Meh, Massdrop is actually pretty niche, especially outside the US. Shipping to Norway is often over 30 USD, for example.

Offline T0mb3ry

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #61 on: Thu, 22 October 2015, 14:10:25 »
Meh, Massdrop is actually pretty niche, especially outside the US. Shipping to Norway is often over 30 USD, for example.
Shipping aside as PMKs shipping hurts the same and after that you have to visit customs too. Anyway i want to point out that MassDrop reaches more people out there. Thats a fact. I know many people outside of US, who checks MassDrop on daily basis.

Also you got no limitation in child deals where PMK limits it to 10.

Offline tofgerl

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #62 on: Thu, 22 October 2015, 14:12:29 »
Sure, but Massdrop isn't all about keycaps. I've wanted at least 10 things that would be more expensive than just buying it retail near me, so I end up not ordering it AND not buying it retail. Which is good, because it turns out I didn't need that item...

This post ended up being more about impulse purchasing than the topic...

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #63 on: Thu, 22 October 2015, 14:27:21 »
Yeah, this thread probably shouldn't devolve into one about MassDrop, but I thought MassDrop was a group buying site. The whole point of group buying is to lower the cost of highly specialized, custom made-to-order items that would otherwise cost a fortune to have made one at a time for just one customer. If you can buy something you see on MassDrop through a conventional purchasing avenue, then the group buy is utterly pointless.

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #64 on: Thu, 22 October 2015, 14:49:21 »
Yeah, this thread probably shouldn't devolve into one about MassDrop, but I thought MassDrop was a group buying site. The whole point of group buying is to lower the cost of highly specialized, custom made-to-order items that would otherwise cost a fortune to have made one at a time for just one customer. If you can buy something you see on MassDrop through a conventional purchasing avenue, then the group buy is utterly pointless.

+1
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Offline Data

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #65 on: Fri, 23 October 2015, 07:28:00 »
Yeah, this thread probably shouldn't devolve into one about MassDrop, but I thought MassDrop was a group buying site. The whole point of group buying is to lower the cost of highly specialized, custom made-to-order items that would otherwise cost a fortune to have made one at a time for just one customer. If you can buy something you see on MassDrop through a conventional purchasing avenue, then the group buy is utterly pointless.

MD sometimes beats retail prices because of the bulk order.  But they are frequently behind Amazon and even the manufacturer's own web site (price wise) on some items and that baffles me.  Their buyers need to do better research.  That said, there's nothing pointless about a group buy if it saves you money in the end.  Gotta weigh the benefits and shop smart.

Offline zlittell

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #66 on: Fri, 23 October 2015, 08:49:51 »
I thought MassDrop was for saving $10 off the amazon price and waiting 3 months?  All joking aside this new PMK system should be interesting.  I think people are neglecting to remember that SP is a money making business.  At the end of the day, if your set is going to net them a few hundred bucks after all the calculations they are going to run it.  Because $5000 is money, $5 is money, money is money.  Some of you are acting like there is some conspiracy over at SP to get everyone to submit sets and then never run them MWUAHAHAHAH.

I think there is a place for this system to coexist with the current systems.  There are just some sets that the designer isn't going to care that Johnny wants it Red20 but Jimmy wants it red22.  Plus don't act like the minute some dope set hits PMK its not going to be posted here, on reddit, talked about in IRC and all us fools will be drooling to get it instantly.  :p

Offline tofgerl

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #67 on: Fri, 23 October 2015, 09:09:29 »
Well that hasn't happened yet.

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #68 on: Fri, 23 October 2015, 09:56:43 »
Well that hasn't happened yet.

What hasn't happened yet?
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Offline tofgerl

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #69 on: Fri, 23 October 2015, 10:01:36 »
A dope set hitting PMK

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #70 on: Fri, 23 October 2015, 10:05:19 »
A dope set hitting PMK

hehe don't forget def, yo
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Offline zlittell

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #71 on: Fri, 23 October 2015, 10:38:30 »
what chu guys don't know bout dem dope sets yo?

Offline bjb39

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 25 October 2015, 20:49:11 »
I plan to do something along those lines for this:

Show Image


Wow. That's stunning. Count me in for sure if you do it!

Offline Oobly

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #73 on: Wed, 04 November 2015, 04:25:07 »
Someone is listening...  :D

This from the president of SP, Bob Guenser:

"I totally understand your concern about giving SP the right to change the design. That was not the intention of the agreement.
First of all, we are manufacturers not designers and would never presume to make an improvement or change without first discussing it with the designer. The License Agreement has been modified to clarify that point.
Secondly, it was never our intention to have permanent control and usage of the design. To address this we have added a statement allowing the designer to rescind the Agreement."

I will be reviewing the changes as soon as I have the document, but this puts the system in a whole new light. As a designer, that settles all the main issues I have with it.  :thumb:

Also:

"For most of this year we have been making extra sets of GB orders and selling them through our Key Shop. Eve, Deep Space, Midnight, Modern Selectric and Juke Box (for sale shortly) are examples. We are very aware there is still strong interest in other sets like 1976 (SA), Nuclear (SA) and Symbiosis (SA) but our SA tooling (thanks to Massdrop) is booked into next year. Because we donít want to extend current manufacturing lead times, we, unfortunately, have decided NOT to run extra sets of Carbon (currently in production) and Danger Zone (next in queue). Itís not that we arenít listening, we simply donít have the capacity at this time to meet the sudden demand in SA sets. We have been running overtime for two month and increasing our tooling capacity to help us meet this unexpected demand."

So things are better than I'd hoped. Let's see how things go once the site is fully operational.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #74 on: Wed, 04 November 2015, 07:10:00 »
Someone is listening...  :D

This from the president of SP, Bob Guenser:

"I totally understand your concern about giving SP the right to change the design. That was not the intention of the agreement.
First of all, we are manufacturers not designers and would never presume to make an improvement or change without first discussing it with the designer. The License Agreement has been modified to clarify that point.
Secondly, it was never our intention to have permanent control and usage of the design. To address this we have added a statement allowing the designer to rescind the Agreement."

I will be reviewing the changes as soon as I have the document, but this puts the system in a whole new light. As a designer, that settles all the main issues I have with it.  :thumb:

Also:

"For most of this year we have been making extra sets of GB orders and selling them through our Key Shop. Eve, Deep Space, Midnight, Modern Selectric and Juke Box (for sale shortly) are examples. We are very aware there is still strong interest in other sets like 1976 (SA), Nuclear (SA) and Symbiosis (SA) but our SA tooling (thanks to Massdrop) is booked into next year. Because we donít want to extend current manufacturing lead times, we, unfortunately, have decided NOT to run extra sets of Carbon (currently in production) and Danger Zone (next in queue). Itís not that we arenít listening, we simply donít have the capacity at this time to meet the sudden demand in SA sets. We have been running overtime for two month and increasing our tooling capacity to help us meet this unexpected demand."

So things are better than I'd hoped. Let's see how things go once the site is fully operational.

See Oob, the world is not out to get you, man.  :thumb:
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Offline Data

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #75 on: Wed, 04 November 2015, 07:25:12 »
Interesting. 

Offline Niomosy

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #76 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 15:58:00 »
Glad to see that they're increasing their SA tooling.  It seems to be needed with both the current SA sets being produced and upcoming sets.  Three large orders up for production, one currently in buy status, and pretty fair number in IC status looks to have their SA tooling rather busy well into 2016. 
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 November 2015, 16:00:06 by Niomosy »

Offline VinnyCordeiro

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #77 on: Wed, 11 November 2015, 16:32:38 »
Glad to see that they're increasing their SA tooling.  It seems to be needed with both the current SA sets being produced and upcoming sets.  Three large orders up for production, one currently in buy status, and pretty fair number in IC status looks to have their SA tooling rather busy well into 2016.
And Row 4 2.25u and 2.75u molds for SHIFT keys, as said in another post. That's pretty awesome, as a matter of fact.

Offline njbair

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #78 on: Thu, 12 November 2015, 22:48:03 »
Just think, all those folks at SP are going to have an awesome Christmas because of all the overtime pay, just to make keycaps for a handful of geeks. That's pretty neat to think about.

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Offline Booper

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #79 on: Thu, 12 November 2015, 23:34:17 »
Does PMK require exclusive rights to a design? Because if not one can still run both Massdrop and PMK and whatever else. Therefore if PMK does not require exclusivity then I do not see how it could lead to smaller availability.

What I do understand, from another post, is that the color scheme can be replicated (as it isn't copyrightable) but you can't use novelty keycap legends without the designer's authorization. Using the 1976 keyset as an example, you could replicate the keycaps colors, but couldn't use the '1976' legends.

I did a set with PMK. They still produce it and the kits are all available/restocked except the novelty pack. I randomly get checks for royalties which is pretty cool to me since I didn't expect to get anything but a free set when I started the group buy. I initially told them that I was cool with them doing some overs in order to alleviate some issues with last minute purchasers, but I didn't want them to just keep my set in stock. The only reason I cared is because I would feel used if they made money off my design consistantly without compensating me at all. Then they told me that if they keep it in stock and sell it, they will send me royalties which I thought was totally fair.

--

I think a lot of the argument is dependent on the group buy organizer and what they are comfortable with doing.

I liked working with PMK and I liked the intimacy of it all. Rallying support from people in the immediate community and going back and forth with Melissa and co. was all a really cool experience. I find the folks at PMK to be very patient, very cooperative, and very accommodating. Melissa is a friggen saint. No business is ever perfect, but I like to support what they are trying to do.

Some people like to take that community element a step further and do old school group buys which are also really cool! It's such an intimate (for lack of a better term) method and is something that brings people together. I have major respect for people that go this route!

Massdrop is good for getting quantity out, but for some that's not all that matters and can be a deterrent. I think it would have been weird to run my set on a larger scale like what Massdrop has. It would have been intimidating to the point of not wanting to do it if MD would have been my only option.

So personally, I like that PMK is a little more niche! That being said... their website being down for months sucked and their new site isn't all that magnificent. Each method of group buy though I think has it's own pros and cons depending on what you are in it for!
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Offline Niomosy

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 13:13:49 »
One other thought on the reproduction of sets and novelties.  As far as I'm aware, the novelties can be redone but two criteria would need to be met.

First, they would need to not fall under legal protection (text based novelties and certain simple shapes that wouldn't fall under protection come to mind). 

Second, you would need to recreate the molds to avoid needing permission to use the existing molds. 

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #81 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 19:51:55 »
I suspect that sort of thing all comes down to how SP chooses to deal with the issue.

For instance, nobody can own the alphabet, and that's why typefaces aren't protected, only specific digital representations (or metal blocks for those who have them). Anyone can trace an existing typeface and put out their own version. It doesn't matter that they didn't come up with the glyph shapes themselves.

So if SP follows the precedent set for typefaces, then anyone could take an existing novelty legend, make their own version of it, and have a new legend plate cut for it. You pays your money and you gets your (copy of the) novelty legend.

But if SP decides to treat every novelty legend as though it were a registered trademark, then you'd be out of luck.

Offline njbair

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #82 on: Fri, 13 November 2015, 21:04:57 »


Melissa is a friggen saint.

QFT.

By the way, which recurring keyset is yours?

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Offline Oobly

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #83 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 04:02:37 »
One other thought on the reproduction of sets and novelties.  As far as I'm aware, the novelties can be redone but two criteria would need to be met.

First, they would need to not fall under legal protection (text based novelties and certain simple shapes that wouldn't fall under protection come to mind). 

Second, you would need to recreate the molds to avoid needing permission to use the existing molds.

How SP deals with it is the only thing that matters in this case. And they won't run someone elses design without permission from the original designer, which I applaud them for.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #84 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 15:34:38 »
Indeed.

By the same token, I'd like to see an optional clause I could sign whereby I could hand over the design to them so they could run it whenever there's demand, without having to bug me about it every time.

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #85 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 15:35:54 »
Indeed.

By the same token, I'd like to see an optional clause I could sign whereby I could hand over the design to them so they could run it whenever there's demand, without having to bug me about it every time.

+1

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Offline Niomosy

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #86 on: Mon, 16 November 2015, 17:45:59 »
I believe you should be able to just let SP know of your intent there that it can be run.  Wasn't there another set that did this?  For some reason I recall that being the case.
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 November 2015, 18:21:43 by Niomosy »

Offline Oobly

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #87 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 05:29:13 »
I believe you should be able to just let SP know of your intent there that it can be run.  Wasn't there another set that did this?  For some reason I recall that being the case.

Yup, just read Booper's post, a few above yours.

SP is still a company that has personal contact with their designers and customers and despite my misgivings about their efforts to get a semi-GB system in place, they do what's in the best interests of both parties, respecting people's wishes and requests unless they clash with each other. Also their options for designers are unmatched by any other manufacturer.

I just think they should either:
1. do a full GB system with preorders and fallback kit choices so they get a true picture of how many sets to make. That'd make it "better" than MD since the prices would be lower, a little quicker to get to the buyers and they solve the international kits problem.
2. stick to simply selling extras on their store if the designer agrees to it (which they calculate from external GB order numbers), with the option to make more to meet demand.

Number 2 would be easiest for them and involve not doing stuff that's untested. Number 1 would require a big commitment and lots of work.

This in-between, "almost GB" thing is not all that promising, IMO. I can even see how it could be detrimental to the "normal" GB's. If only subpar designs get submitted (due to well developed designs most likely rather running through MD, not to mention that seems to have happened a lot with the old site), but somehow one gets enough votes, they'll reserve a slot for it and it will go to production, taking the time that a set that's gone through the "full" process and is up as a "proper" GB should have.

Right now, it's not likely anything major will change with the site and the most glaring objections of mine have been addressed, so we can simply see how things go for a while.
Buying more keycaps,
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Offline Niomosy

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #88 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 13:52:54 »
Since the other thread is now locked, I'll bring the question here.

We were talking about some standard sets using classic colors.  Those seem like just the thing to run through the PMK system as-is.  You're right that more specialized sets with novelties and such would be more likely to run through MD given the current PMK system but I think some of those classic kits would find a good home within the PMK system.

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #89 on: Fri, 20 November 2015, 15:11:22 »
One of the reasons I put the idea out there that "vintage colorways" might be a useful product category almost unto itself is that I have this idea for a 60% case project; the kind of thing that could be prototyped at a maker facility like TechShops. This case would be a top-cover as well as a base to fasten onto, it would be lightly textured aluminum, and it would be molded to remind you of an IBM Selectric. It could be painted in any of the classic Selectric colors, but my first prototype would be brown, like my Selectric II at home.

So if the goal is to have a 60% that looks like a mini IBM Selectric, then you need 60% SA keycap sets that are all one color. The most iconic colors were: charcoal gray, medium gray, and bright blue. We have medium gray (Honey GREY). We have a medium blue (Cadet BLUE) but not really a bright blue. Dasher's light blue might suffice, but that might not be ideal. And right now we don't have a charcoal (near-black) gray set in fully sculptured SA. Honey's NN black keycaps could substitute for the time being, but something like GB gray would be better, I think.

Sets like that which are basically just full sets in one vintage-y color, not unlike the Filco set, feel like good candidates for the PMK store. If there was a MassDrop run of the Selectric case, then folks will want somewhere to turn for the keycaps, and right now there is no place to go where you can just order the color you like. There is if you want blanks or generic dyesub DSAs, but not if you want a 60% sculptured SA set in one of the "IBM colors".

Offline Oobly

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #90 on: Wed, 25 November 2015, 05:33:16 »
One of the reasons I put the idea out there that "vintage colorways" might be a useful product category almost unto itself is that I have this idea for a 60% case project; the kind of thing that could be prototyped at a maker facility like TechShops. This case would be a top-cover as well as a base to fasten onto, it would be lightly textured aluminum, and it would be molded to remind you of an IBM Selectric. It could be painted in any of the classic Selectric colors, but my first prototype would be brown, like my Selectric II at home.

So if the goal is to have a 60% that looks like a mini IBM Selectric, then you need 60% SA keycap sets that are all one color. The most iconic colors were: charcoal gray, medium gray, and bright blue. We have medium gray (Honey GREY). We have a medium blue (Cadet BLUE) but not really a bright blue. Dasher's light blue might suffice, but that might not be ideal. And right now we don't have a charcoal (near-black) gray set in fully sculptured SA. Honey's NN black keycaps could substitute for the time being, but something like GB gray would be better, I think.

Sets like that which are basically just full sets in one vintage-y color, not unlike the Filco set, feel like good candidates for the PMK store. If there was a MassDrop run of the Selectric case, then folks will want somewhere to turn for the keycaps, and right now there is no place to go where you can just order the color you like. There is if you want blanks or generic dyesub DSAs, but not if you want a 60% sculptured SA set in one of the "IBM colors".

I agree. Some base colours would be nice to have as sets available to buy on the store. But deciding which colours to use would be a problem. There are a lot of colourways that could be considered "classic".

You could also run the caps as a concurrent GB with the case. I'm sure there's be people who don't buy the case interested in the caps and vice versa.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Data

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #91 on: Wed, 25 November 2015, 08:06:22 »
Dolch, Olivetti, WoB and BoW seem like obvious starting points to me.

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #92 on: Wed, 25 November 2015, 10:47:53 »
I am not normally one to complain, but can someone explain why this set ($50) costs so much more than this one ($28)? Especially when the Modern Selectric is predominantly Black/White (which I know is the cheapest ABS material to work with).  :-\
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Offline zslane

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #93 on: Wed, 25 November 2015, 13:53:42 »
Two reasons come to mind. Modern Selectric has custom legends, the cost of which is surely folded into the kit cost. Also, the Jukebox prices are probably based on the volume cost of the initial run which tends to have the highest volume, and therefore lowest prices. Modern Selectric could be in a "re-run" phase where production quantities are lower and prices a bit higher as a result.

Offline 00zeRO

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #94 on: Wed, 25 November 2015, 13:59:52 »
Two reasons come to mind. Modern Selectric has custom legends, the cost of which is surely folded into the kit cost. Also, the Jukebox prices are probably based on the volume cost of the initial run which tends to have the highest volume, and therefore lowest prices. Modern Selectric could be in a "re-run" phase where production quantities are lower and prices a bit higher as a result.

Still stinks...
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Offline Niomosy

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #95 on: Wed, 25 November 2015, 17:21:13 »
One of the reasons I put the idea out there that "vintage colorways" might be a useful product category almost unto itself is that I have this idea for a 60% case project; the kind of thing that could be prototyped at a maker facility like TechShops. This case would be a top-cover as well as a base to fasten onto, it would be lightly textured aluminum, and it would be molded to remind you of an IBM Selectric. It could be painted in any of the classic Selectric colors, but my first prototype would be brown, like my Selectric II at home.

So if the goal is to have a 60% that looks like a mini IBM Selectric, then you need 60% SA keycap sets that are all one color. The most iconic colors were: charcoal gray, medium gray, and bright blue. We have medium gray (Honey GREY). We have a medium blue (Cadet BLUE) but not really a bright blue. Dasher's light blue might suffice, but that might not be ideal. And right now we don't have a charcoal (near-black) gray set in fully sculptured SA. Honey's NN black keycaps could substitute for the time being, but something like GB gray would be better, I think.

Sets like that which are basically just full sets in one vintage-y color, not unlike the Filco set, feel like good candidates for the PMK store. If there was a MassDrop run of the Selectric case, then folks will want somewhere to turn for the keycaps, and right now there is no place to go where you can just order the color you like. There is if you want blanks or generic dyesub DSAs, but not if you want a 60% sculptured SA set in one of the "IBM colors".

I agree. Some base colours would be nice to have as sets available to buy on the store. But deciding which colours to use would be a problem. There are a lot of colourways that could be considered "classic".

You could also run the caps as a concurrent GB with the case. I'm sure there's be people who don't buy the case interested in the caps and vice versa.

I think we could probably capture some basics with relative ease.  Glancing back through old keyboards for some classic inspiration, it could be something put up to vote for a few basics; basic beige, blue, black, gray.  I think those four tend to cover the major classic cap colors.  Pick a set for each color and you're off and running.  That way other designers can still change the colors and offer up something unique while new users are easily able to jump in with a decent selection of available caps.

Offline zslane

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #96 on: Wed, 25 November 2015, 19:18:57 »
You could also run the caps as a concurrent GB with the case. I'm sure there's be people who don't buy the case interested in the caps and vice versa.

Oh, I agree completely. I always envisioned a MassDrop which offered the case with optional keycaps, and color choices for both.

Offline Oobly

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Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #97 on: Tue, 01 December 2015, 04:46:21 »
One of the reasons I put the idea out there that "vintage colorways" might be a useful product category almost unto itself is that I have this idea for a 60% case project; the kind of thing that could be prototyped at a maker facility like TechShops. This case would be a top-cover as well as a base to fasten onto, it would be lightly textured aluminum, and it would be molded to remind you of an IBM Selectric. It could be painted in any of the classic Selectric colors, but my first prototype would be brown, like my Selectric II at home.

So if the goal is to have a 60% that looks like a mini IBM Selectric, then you need 60% SA keycap sets that are all one color. The most iconic colors were: charcoal gray, medium gray, and bright blue. We have medium gray (Honey GREY). We have a medium blue (Cadet BLUE) but not really a bright blue. Dasher's light blue might suffice, but that might not be ideal. And right now we don't have a charcoal (near-black) gray set in fully sculptured SA. Honey's NN black keycaps could substitute for the time being, but something like GB gray would be better, I think.

Sets like that which are basically just full sets in one vintage-y color, not unlike the Filco set, feel like good candidates for the PMK store. If there was a MassDrop run of the Selectric case, then folks will want somewhere to turn for the keycaps, and right now there is no place to go where you can just order the color you like. There is if you want blanks or generic dyesub DSAs, but not if you want a 60% sculptured SA set in one of the "IBM colors".

I agree. Some base colours would be nice to have as sets available to buy on the store. But deciding which colours to use would be a problem. There are a lot of colourways that could be considered "classic".

You could also run the caps as a concurrent GB with the case. I'm sure there's be people who don't buy the case interested in the caps and vice versa.

I think we could probably capture some basics with relative ease.  Glancing back through old keyboards for some classic inspiration, it could be something put up to vote for a few basics; basic beige, blue, black, gray.  I think those four tend to cover the major classic cap colors.  Pick a set for each color and you're off and running.  That way other designers can still change the colors and offer up something unique while new users are easily able to jump in with a decent selection of available caps.

I guess they could make them like the black and white dcs sets they offer: TKL, alphas, mods, numpad. Gives people options to use any combination base and mods, although I think just TKL and numpad would probably be good enough (and it's easier to work our how many to run).
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline Niomosy

  • Posts: 1239
Re: What do you think of new Signature Plastics Group Buy process?
« Reply #98 on: Tue, 01 December 2015, 13:07:27 »
One of the reasons I put the idea out there that "vintage colorways" might be a useful product category almost unto itself is that I have this idea for a 60% case project; the kind of thing that could be prototyped at a maker facility like TechShops. This case would be a top-cover as well as a base to fasten onto, it would be lightly textured aluminum, and it would be molded to remind you of an IBM Selectric. It could be painted in any of the classic Selectric colors, but my first prototype would be brown, like my Selectric II at home.

So if the goal is to have a 60% that looks like a mini IBM Selectric, then you need 60% SA keycap sets that are all one color. The most iconic colors were: charcoal gray, medium gray, and bright blue. We have medium gray (Honey GREY). We have a medium blue (Cadet BLUE) but not really a bright blue. Dasher's light blue might suffice, but that might not be ideal. And right now we don't have a charcoal (near-black) gray set in fully sculptured SA. Honey's NN black keycaps could substitute for the time being, but something like GB gray would be better, I think.

Sets like that which are basically just full sets in one vintage-y color, not unlike the Filco set, feel like good candidates for the PMK store. If there was a MassDrop run of the Selectric case, then folks will want somewhere to turn for the keycaps, and right now there is no place to go where you can just order the color you like. There is if you want blanks or generic dyesub DSAs, but not if you want a 60% sculptured SA set in one of the "IBM colors".

I agree. Some base colours would be nice to have as sets available to buy on the store. But deciding which colours to use would be a problem. There are a lot of colourways that could be considered "classic".

You could also run the caps as a concurrent GB with the case. I'm sure there's be people who don't buy the case interested in the caps and vice versa.

I think we could probably capture some basics with relative ease.  Glancing back through old keyboards for some classic inspiration, it could be something put up to vote for a few basics; basic beige, blue, black, gray.  I think those four tend to cover the major classic cap colors.  Pick a set for each color and you're off and running.  That way other designers can still change the colors and offer up something unique while new users are easily able to jump in with a decent selection of available caps.

I guess they could make them like the black and white dcs sets they offer: TKL, alphas, mods, numpad. Gives people options to use any combination base and mods, although I think just TKL and numpad would probably be good enough (and it's easier to work our how many to run).

TKL and Numpad are pretty solid basic options for people.  I could see that working out.  The big problem right now is PMK.  In the Troubled Minds thread thesiscamper mentioned having submitted a design to the PMK system weeks ago and has heard nothing of it yet.  That's a bit troubling to hear.  Granted, they're pretty busy at the moment so that might have something to do with it but at least a reply of some kind would be helpful.