Author Topic: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop  (Read 88351 times)

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Offline tufty

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #300 on: Sat, 06 August 2016, 13:39:14 »
Hey, kurplop!

Nice etchings :)

Good to see the hand is healing well, if you get round to removing the tips of the other 9 digits, you'll have tiny enough hands to stand for the presidency.

Scored myself a Schaublin lathe with milling attachments and a pile of tooling last week.  Need to get the power side of things sorted out and I'll be able to rip the ends off my own fingers.  Not that I don't have the tooling to do that already, but proper spinny tools can actually pull those bones out of their sockets and beat you with them, rather than the frankly wimpy "slice, dice and splatter over the ceiling" option you went for.
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 August 2016, 13:40:58 by tufty »

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #301 on: Sat, 06 August 2016, 16:27:37 »
I'm still doing tests on the etching procedure and even tried running the paper through the printer twice to build up a thicker mask. After a few tries I got a print that tracked the first one well. To my surprise, it wasn't as durable while I was scrubbing the paper off and I ended up with more pitting than prior attempts. I'm now testing the durability of different masks to supplement the toner. I need something that won't break down from the lye but can be easily removed without residue for the anodizing.

Tufty–  I saw a safety video of a guy who was wearing gloves while operating the lathe. The glove got sucked into the work and it ripped his arm off. Just like you said, flopping around the work hitting everything in its radius. That would easily have a greater WOW factor than my measly finger incident. The real question is, "Are you man enough to do it or are you just talk?".

Congratulations on your lathe purchase. I hadn't heard of the Schaublin before but they look like a great tool. Did you get it primarily for turning or for milling?

My hand is doing great but at the hand surgeons recommendation I'm going in next week for Carpel Tunnel Release surgery. He said it just isn't normal for someone to do what I did and not  have any real pain. I had nerve studies done and the results showed an absence of sensory neuron activity; I could have told them that! The surgery will keep the same from happening to the motor nerves. The CTS I had on my right hand went well 3 years ago so I'm anticipating the same for the left.

 

Offline tufty

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #302 on: Sun, 07 August 2016, 14:32:54 »
Congratulations on your lathe purchase. I hadn't heard of the Schaublin before but they look like a great tool. Did you get it primarily for turning or for milling?
Primarily for turning, but having the milling head is a bonus.  The guy didn't know what he was selling, all he knew was it was a 3 phase machine with its internal wiring cut (and he only had single phase power anyway), that had been hulking in his garage for 20 years since he inherited it, and he wanted it gone.  I offered him twice the scrap price and he nearly bit my arm off.  it came with a 10 kilo box of taps and dies, another 10 kilos of turning tools, about 15 kilos of milling bits, drills, etc.

Awesome score, basically.

The only downsides are that it's kinda small, milling capacity is 90x80mm at most, and it doesn't do threading.

As for wearing gloves near rotating tools, no thanks.  Seen what that does, and it's nastier than my mate's "thumb in the planer" incident.  So no, I don't fancy doing that :)

For the etching issue, you might want to consider switching etchant rather than switching mask.  http://www.nontoxicprint.com/etchzincsteelaluminum.htm might be worth a look.
« Last Edit: Sun, 07 August 2016, 14:42:05 by tufty »

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #303 on: Mon, 15 August 2016, 23:33:26 »
I had Carpel Tunnel Release surgery on my left hand today. This will actually hasten the completion of P6.
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I figure after another day of recovery I should be in that sweet spot where I won't be able to do any hard work but where keyboard construction will be like physical therapy. That's how I'm pitching it to my wife. I finished up a big job and have blocked out the next month or so for home improvement projects and finishing Planet6. 
« Last Edit: Tue, 23 August 2016, 06:15:06 by kurplop »

Offline Zekromtor

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #304 on: Tue, 16 August 2016, 02:02:03 »
Be honest... was your "accident" with the jointer really just you trying to do this carpal tunnel surgery on the cheap?

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #305 on: Tue, 16 August 2016, 09:07:36 »
Be honest... was your "accident" with the jointer really just you trying to do this carpal tunnel surgery on the cheap?

I have done a few minor procedures on myself but never considered anything quite so invasive... yet.  Besides, if I had done it, I wouldn't have missed by 6 inches.

Offline Zekromtor

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #306 on: Tue, 16 August 2016, 15:53:53 »
Yeah probably not. A true DIYer is willing to perform minor surgeries on himself, but I guess not carpal tunnel or vasectomy type things.

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #307 on: Tue, 16 August 2016, 16:10:57 »
Good advise.

Offline tufty

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #308 on: Wed, 17 August 2016, 11:52:35 »
If you're doing your vasectomy with a vise, it might not turn out to be reversible.

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #309 on: Wed, 17 August 2016, 20:31:08 »
After several iterations, I decided to rebuild the entire keyring. There would be too many compromises if I worked with some of the mistakes that have crept into it. By completely removing the ring structure I'll be able to better secure the new assembly. I'm making independent caps/plungers to activate the switches which will be set deeper into the body.
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(Anybody checking the dimensions will note that they are 10x the actual size.)

Offline nhopubrid

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #310 on: Thu, 18 August 2016, 05:49:12 »
Very interesting to see how things are progressing. Thanks for the updates – looking forward to reading many more.

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #311 on: Fri, 19 August 2016, 19:31:11 »
It's great to be back in the shop. Today was the first day I felt like my hand was ready to work after the surgery on Monday. I made the keyring body that will replace the center that I butchered up while experimenting with different options. I'm going to cut out the whole center and try heating up the rest of the keyboard to get it to expand enough to install the new ring.. If all goes well, the new ring will fit tightly without any fasteners but it is designed to easily bolt together if necessary.

It took very little time to make it after I finally decided on a design.
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This is the final cut; at least it better be. It's best to keep all critical mounting points as long as necessary.
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I'm making independent caps/plungers to push the switches below. This gives me more room for everything and should give the body more integrity.
I will insert brass tubes into the holes to allow for better wear and less friction. The cap will have an integrated brass stem which will slide in this one.
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By starting from scratch I get a second chance to get it right. The old cutouts for the Slimblade's side PCB's fit but looked pretty ill-conceived. These look like they belong.
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I've decided to go with round caps in the keyring and should get started on them soon. I've got more pictures which will be viewable on my flickr site in the next few days.

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #312 on: Sat, 20 August 2016, 17:40:17 »
I spent this early morning milling round caps but its execution proved more difficult that I imagined with what I had to work with. I ws unable to get the right profile on the top. I think I will try  turning them instead.

Later I did a keyringectomy on P6 and it came through better than I expected.
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The ring fit snug on the first try. Not so tight that we had to expand/fit it. It will need screws, but still a nice tight fit.

Part of the flange on the outer rim all have to be cut away but most of the rest will clear. I will probably sandwich the flange between the circular PCB and the keyboard body then screw through together
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I'm hoping to get a little bit done each day for the next few weeks.

Offline nhopubrid

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #313 on: Sun, 21 August 2016, 05:14:30 »
Very neat looking! I see you make lots of use of the SlimBlade trackball; is it as good as it looks?

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #314 on: Sun, 21 August 2016, 08:31:42 »
Very neat looking! I see you make lots of use of the SlimBlade trackball; is it as good as it looks?

Thanks.

I really like them, especially after they has been modified. Unaltered, I wasn't fond of the switches. I had only used one briefly before tearing it apart so I may have gotten used to it. I remember finding that, although it has large "buttons", unless you hit them right at 3 or 9 o'clock they were hard to push compared to my former favorite trackball, the Expert Mouse. Conversely, the major complaint with the EM was solved brilliantly in the SlimBlade with their scrolling feature that's built into the ball rather than using a separate scroll ring which works great but feels a bit scratchy in use.

Using independent switches and integrating the SlimBlade into the center of the keyboard body has been a perfect marriage. It keeps the pointing device within inches of home position and allows ambidextrous control for all mousing functions.

Even after using a trackball for years, I can still use a mouse quicker and more precisely. For me, comfort, not speed, was the overriding factor. I'm also a fan of the larger trackballs. The sensory feedback in my hands is limited so the bigger the better. I did use a smaller ball, the Logitech Marble Mouse, in the ErgoPlop, an earlier board which I was disappointed in. The Marble's smaller ball worked great in its factory housing but in my design I didn't leave enough ball exposed for maximum range of motion.

I had also considered using a trackpad in lieu of a ball (come on, it's the 21st century) but its complete lack of sensory input made it unsuitable for me.


Offline nhopubrid

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #315 on: Sun, 21 August 2016, 09:44:44 »
That information about the SlimBlade is good to know. I was actually looking for keyboards with built-in trackballs in the center when I came across this forum – your threads more specifically. I think the AlumaPlop is gorgeous and Planet 6 even more so, from what I have seen so far. Looking forward to reading many more updates, as stated previously.

Offline iamtootallforthis

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #316 on: Sun, 21 August 2016, 19:51:08 »
I'm loving the updates!

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #317 on: Mon, 22 August 2016, 02:02:25 »
Thanks guys. I'm going to try to give a progress report at least every other day. It is refreshing to report something other than unpleasant encounters with City Hall, injuries, thefts and surgeries.

Today I cracked open another SlimBlade to reacquaint myself with its internal physical structure.
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 After confirming clearances, I began designing the PCB for the keyring.
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 I will have to trim a few areas of the keyring's body as expected but very minor.
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I also ordered some springs, electronics components and ribbon cable for the project. To top it off, my latest customer gave me a large cash gift in a thank you card along with the balance for the completed job.   Overall a pretty good Sunday.

Offline tufty

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #318 on: Mon, 22 August 2016, 14:34:27 »
Lookin' good.

How's the hand feeling?

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #319 on: Mon, 22 August 2016, 17:35:05 »
My hand? That was a whole week ago. I'd almost forgotten about it.
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It's healing very quickly. I was able to do some yard work the next day and by Saturday I was at about 50%. Stitches don't come out for another week.

I burned the keyring PCB today. Here I'm removing the paper after letting it soak for about 5 minutes.
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They're not much to look at, but it looks like no shorts or open traces. I tinned them, cut them to size, and will drill out the holes this evening if all goes well.

This thing may actually be done in another month!!!!

Offline nhopubrid

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #320 on: Tue, 23 August 2016, 02:38:01 »
My hand? That was a whole week ago. I'd almost forgotten about it.

The cut is almost half the width of your palm and a week later you've almost forgotten about it? ;D That is tough skin.

How come you know everything from woodwork to milling to CAD to electronics?

Offline audax989

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #321 on: Tue, 23 August 2016, 03:10:08 »
Amazing work sir. I am astounded at your persistence and will. Bravo sir.

Can't wait for Planet 6 to complete.

Offline Zekromtor

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #322 on: Wed, 24 August 2016, 05:46:06 »
What switches are you using for your keyring keys?

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #323 on: Wed, 24 August 2016, 06:21:08 »
How come you know everything from woodwork to milling to CAD to electronics?

I don't consider myself as much more than a jack of all trades and concerning electronics I'm more of a court jester, but to answer your question– I'm old. 
You can't help but pick up things if you live long enough and are curious. I'm actually more impressed by how accomplished many of our younger geek hackers are.
Amazing work sir. I am astounded at your persistence and will. Bravo sir.

Can't wait for Planet 6 to complete.

Thanks. I can't wait either!

What switches are you using for your keyring keys?

Once again, I'm resorting to the lowly ML. It just seems like a good fit. The combination of small size, easy PCB mounting, short throw, availability (I have thousands laying around), and familiarity, combined with my makeshift linkage which should help guide the push direction, swayed my decision.

I still intend to use the Matias switches for the other keys (at the moment). I'm still not happy with my keycap design and that may involve another switch to overcome clearance issues caused by my obstinate insistence on a 0.65" vertical spacing. Either way, I need to make a decision because I've decided not to go back to work until this thing is done!

By the way, no progress report today because I had to serve on jury duty. Today jury selection is finishing up and I'll know if I will be on the case. It's estimated to go for 2 weeks.




Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #324 on: Fri, 26 August 2016, 18:58:07 »
As you may have guessed, I did get selected to serve on a trial. It is projected to last through next week. Naturally, this put quite a dent in my plan to get something done every day on P6.

I did drill out the PCB and press-fit the switches into it to check various tolerances and clearances. Tapping the holes in the keyboard body went smooth. I used a progression of 3mm taps, each one with a shorter taper, to get the threads to the bottom of the holes. I intentionally designed the PCB placement to require shims to get the right height of the switch stems. Ideally, I'd like to have about 0.5mm travel on the switch in the resting position. This should give me an activation point at 1.0mm down. If I don't like it I can easily change it. I thought I'd have to install additional springs above the keyring body but preliminary tests look like the ML spring should be able to handle the additional weight of the new cap and plunger. The round design allows me to have very thin cap walls to keep the sprung weight very light.

A view of the keyring assembly screwed in for testing.
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I fit a piece of 1/8" hard brass tube into the 1/8" hole. It made a very snug fit and may not require anything else to hold it in place. The 3/32" tube slides very smoothly with a little de-burring and some lube. The bottom end of the tube will get a small flat piece of brass or copper soldered on to keep the assembly in place. The top will fit into a 3/32" hole in the center of the aluminum keycap. I may add a thin sheet of rubber under the keyring body where the plunger foot will hit on the upstroke to control the sound.
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I have a concrete pour in the morning but then I should have the afternoon to get more done. Finally!
« Last Edit: Fri, 26 August 2016, 19:05:06 by kurplop »

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #325 on: Sat, 27 August 2016, 03:32:53 »
I don't really have anything to say but it seems rude looking at all the pretty pics without commenting.  It's interesting to read the explanations too - you make it all sound so simple!

Here's hoping it's an easy case so you can get back to the workshop soon :thumb:
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Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #326 on: Sat, 27 August 2016, 07:55:49 »
I don't really have anything to say but it seems rude looking at all the pretty pics without commenting.  It's interesting to read the explanations too - you make it all sound so simple!

Here's hoping it's an easy case so you can get back to the workshop soon :thumb:

Thanks. I appreciate your feedback. It's important for me to know that others are enjoying the process– why bother recording the steps if they weren't?

The case is a civil one and if all goes well we should be deliberating on Wednesday. Jury duty is always an inconvenience and sometimes a hardship. I'm wondering if the US is ready for professional jurors; it certainly wouldn't be any more expensive than the inefficiencies built into the conscriptive process currently used. All whining aside, I'm impressed at the gravity jurors feel, realizing that if the tables were turned, they would want the same thoughtful consideration given to their own cases.

Offline Charger

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #327 on: Sat, 27 August 2016, 08:27:08 »
I'm not really a fan of mixing aluminum and brass since they are known to not play nice with each other but its looking good

Offline OverKill

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #328 on: Sat, 27 August 2016, 12:07:08 »
I'm not really a fan of mixing aluminum and brass since they are known to not play nice with each other but its looking good

Since it isn't going to be operated under water or liquid using brass and aluminum is fine.

Offline Zekromtor

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #329 on: Sat, 27 August 2016, 22:29:06 »
Overkill, you seem to know some stuff about metal. Would you go so far to say if dry that brass and aluminum is a good choice for moderate rubbing? I don't know squat about which metals work well together, but it's interesting stuff. If he decided to lubricate them, would that perhaps cause the problems that Charger was warning about?

Kurplop, did you do research into your selection of brass as the metal for the plunger? Or have experience with brass/aluminum being a low friction low wear configuration?

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #330 on: Sun, 28 August 2016, 00:11:11 »
Good questions guys. I was aware of problems mixing aluminum with copper so it follows that brass, which is made up of mostly copper, could have similar reactions. However, in the case of iron pipe, it reacts with copper but is compatible with brass. Honestly, I hadn't even considered it being an issue because , as overkill mentioned, it will not be subjected to water.

As for the dissimilar metals wearing against each other, they won't.  The 1/8" tube is press fit in the hole and is stationary. A smaller brass tube slides inside the larger tube; think trombone. I have had bad experiences with aluminum against aluminum friction and thought the brass to be a better option. I had considered Teflon inserts but the brass was availible and in the right sizes.  Absolutely no science went into the decision and I'd welcome any other thoughts on the subject.


Offline tufty

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #331 on: Mon, 29 August 2016, 12:42:58 »
Shame you're in the states, I have some biggish chunks of teflon lying about, I'd have sent you some gratos.  Shipping overpond is liable to be more than buying the stuff pre-machined...

Bearing bronze and steel rods would be a good choice, otherwise.

By the way, *nasty* bit of milling going on here...


If you're saying "that doesn't look very stable", you're right.  Very shallow cuts, I was only taking off 2mm in 1/10ths
« Last Edit: Mon, 29 August 2016, 12:46:37 by tufty »

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #332 on: Mon, 29 August 2016, 19:25:42 »
Shame you're in the states, I have some biggish chunks of teflon lying about, I'd have sent you some gratos.  Shipping overpond is liable to be more than buying the stuff pre-machined...

Bearing bronze and steel rods would be a good choice, otherwise.

By the way, *nasty* bit of milling going on here...

Show Image

If you're saying "that doesn't look very stable", you're right.  Very shallow cuts, I was only taking off 2mm in 1/10ths

Bronze would have been a better option, but the iron rod would have added sprung weight that I was trying to avoid. All the same– good point. Teflon would have probably worked the best but I think my brass will work fine.

I like your lathe. There's something about old iron with a history of paint on it that makes me nostalgic. I wish I had collets for my lathe. (Jealous lament)

Meanwhile , back in the shop– I roughed out  the thumb keys and fitted them in the keyboard. I still have to cut the back sides,separate them and finish contouring the top profiles. They are just laying in place; they actually fit pretty well despite their placement in the picture.
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 I cut the brass plungers and cleaned up the ends with a file and sandpaper.
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Another step checked off the list.

Offline tufty

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #333 on: Thu, 01 September 2016, 12:03:50 »
****in' ell, (s)he's guilty, already.  Send 'em down!  Life without parole, hard labour or solitary!

Now, where's my bloody update?

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #334 on: Thu, 01 September 2016, 15:56:06 »
****in' ell, (s)he's guilty, already.  Send 'em down!  Life without parole, hard labour or solitary!

Now, where's my bloody update?

Hey, where do you think I live? France?  Where it's no trial but straight to the guillotine. Off with their heads! Viva Robespierre! Come on now. Here in the New World we have laws.
Well the case is over and we awarded the plaintiff $347,000.00 in compensation for damages from a car accident. After legal and medical fees, he will probably see $125.000 of it.
While jury duty is a tremendous inconvenience, as we were told, "we serve so that the same right to a jury trial will be available to us". I was impressed with both the quality of the people I served with and with their insights which helped us to arrive at our decisions.

Now, back to the shop. I should have something good to share soon.



« Last Edit: Thu, 01 September 2016, 22:22:56 by kurplop »

Offline tufty

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #335 on: Fri, 02 September 2016, 01:36:20 »
Here in the New World we have laws.
I refer the honorable gentleman to the case of SCO vs IBM (also SCO vs DaimlerChrysler, SCO vs Autozone, SCO vs Novell), and question whether the guillotine is such a terrible thing after all.

Jury duty's a great thing.  <offtopic type="flamebait"> Government should be run the along similar lines. </offtopic>

Anyway, get on with the pictures, man!

Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #336 on: Fri, 02 September 2016, 02:54:43 »
347?  I guess there's a calculation to arrive at such a random looking figure :))

Glad to hear it's over!
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Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #337 on: Fri, 02 September 2016, 23:09:07 »
Here in the New World we have laws.
I refer the honorable gentleman to the case of SCO vs IBM (also SCO vs DaimlerChrysler, SCO vs Autozone, SCO vs Novell), and question whether the guillotine is such a terrible thing after all.

You may be right about the guillotine. I only said that we don't use it here in the New World.

Interesting reading about Athenian Democracy. Makes me want to get my toga from the cleaners and see if it still fits..

 
347?  I guess there's a calculation to arrive at such a random looking figure :))

Glad to hear it's over!

We had to breakdown the Plaintiff's loss based on past and future medical expenses, as well as past and future pain and suffering.

The Defense had a number about half of what we came up with and the Plaintiff was thinking about 2 million. We probably managed to disappoint everybody.


I made some progress on the thumb keys . Everything is roughed out but still need to clean things up.
147273-0

I ended up not turning the keyring switch caps after all. The process made a lot of chips. I had to clear them at least once mid cut to keep things from clogging up.
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I used an annular cutter for this. It's kind of a hole saw on steroids. It leaves super clean walls as it cuts.
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The boring finished and ready for separation and shaping of the top.
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And this is what it will look like. After many iterations, I'm happy with this one. It's unobtrusive but should be easy to use. Besides, they look more like moons this way.;D  I ended up mounting a lathe tool bit to my mill table and securing the cap in a collet to cut the bevel on the cap top. I tried cutting the profile on the lathe but found my chuck wouldn't hold it as secure as the mill's R8 collet.
147281-4
I didn't want to mess with stabilizers and the previous, larger caps probably would have required them. I'm not as concerned with the thumb keys because I am using a very robust switch and the switch center should be right where I would naturally strike the cap. Not so with the ring keys. The round ring offers no reference points to work with.

Next step is to finish up the thumb and ring caps while I wait for some electronic components I ordered.

Edit:  I almost forgot. For those interested in my recent surgery. I'm all healed up and ready for any four finger hand modeling gigs that might come up.147283-5
« Last Edit: Fri, 02 September 2016, 23:19:17 by kurplop »

Offline S1llyC0ne

  • Posts: 52
  • Location: France
Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #338 on: Sat, 03 September 2016, 01:31:43 »
It's been almost four decades that the french justice didn't kill innocent people because we death penalty is abolished over here. Just sayin'.
Back to keyboard asskicking, please ?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #339 on: Sat, 03 September 2016, 03:06:02 »
* suicidal_orange adds an annular cutter and a collet to dream workshop shopping list

Those round buttons look perfect, will the random shaped thumb caps need manual work to finish or do you have another cool machine for them too?

Hand is looking good, doesn't look like your first scar...
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod
MX Brown 30g, HHKBish
Vortex OEM PBT
for See how the other half lives challenge!

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #340 on: Sat, 03 September 2016, 06:31:52 »
It's been almost four decades that the french justice didn't kill innocent people because we death penalty is abolished over here. Just sayin'.
Back to keyboard asskicking, please ?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk



I hope that the absence of smiley faces doesn't imply that I was in any way serious with my comments about French justice. Because I'm 50% French, my father's parents were immigrants from France, I felt a freedom to joke about the subject. I was just having fun with tufty; besides, he started it!
* suicidal_orange adds an annular cutter and a collet to dream workshop shopping list

Those round buttons look perfect, will the random shaped thumb caps need manual work to finish or do you have another cool machine for them too?

Hand is looking good, doesn't look like your first scar...

You're right to be impressed with the annular cutters. They are pretty amazing. They cut fast and leave a clean wall on the inside and out. The cost is pretty steep, starting at $30 for the 1/2" size to over $100 for 1 1/2" and over.
My unstated concerns about the thin cap walls collapsing during the cut were unjustified. I cut 14 caps (two extra) and they all came out unscathed. I don't think the outcome would have been as favorable if I reversed the order and made the 9/16" end mill, inner hole cut after the annular one.
The caps were cut out of aluminum stock that was thicker than needed for the finished product but necessary for securing during the top beveling operation. I shortened them up later on the stationary disc sander. The thin walls sanded down quickly but had to be cooled frequently to keep from burning my fingers. After all, I need to protect the ones I have left.

The rest of the thumb key refinements will be done with various sanding operations, power and manual, and with varying grits. After that, a trip to the sandblast cabinet to get a consistent matte finish. I had lingering doubts whether I could fit the thumb keys accurately. It's nice to have that operation behind me.
I kept the four key thumb clusters together as long as possible to be able to properly index the contours and cap stem locations. Because I contoured the cap tops before milling the underside, I wondered how I'd support the outside caps which were no longer in plane with the inner caps. The caps were still attached but held together with only the thinnest bits of aluminum; definitely not strong enough to resist the milling forces. I ended up bedding the outer caps in a blob of Bondo. It supported the pieces but came off easily because the work was left oily from the earlier milling.

The CTR surgery seems to be healing quicker than the earlier one, 3 years ago on my right hand, but it may just seem that way because it's not my dominant hand.
« Last Edit: Sat, 03 September 2016, 07:19:43 by kurplop »

Offline S1llyC0ne

  • Posts: 52
  • Location: France
Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #341 on: Sat, 03 September 2016, 06:37:28 »


I hope that the absence of smiley faces doesn't imply that I was in any way serious with my comments about French justice. Because I'm 50% French, my father's parents were immigrants from France, I felt a freedom to joke about the subject. I was just having fun with tufty; besides, he started it!

My bad :-P

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Offline tufty

  • Posts: 347
  • Location: French Alps
Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #342 on: Sat, 03 September 2016, 11:23:34 »
Those round caps look beautifully industrial.  Glorious.  And that annular cutter makes me drool.

What lathe do you have?  No way of getting (or making) an R8 collet adaptor for your headstock?

Offline Zekromtor

  • Posts: 241
    • My Setup
Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #343 on: Sat, 03 September 2016, 13:15:42 »
Nice job with the bondo hack. Work holding is the hardest part of milling IMO. I'd love to have a vacuum table, but even those only solve a handful of problems.

Have you posted a layout of your key mapping ideas? So many buttons to use for capslock now, I want to know which one(s) you choose :)

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #344 on: Sat, 03 September 2016, 20:01:20 »
I hope that the absence of smiley faces doesn't imply that I was in any way serious with my comments about French justice. Because I'm 50% French, my father's parents were immigrants from France, I felt a freedom to joke about the subject. I was just having fun with tufty; besides, he started it!
My bad :-P

I'm glad you said it so I could clarify.


Those round caps look beautifully industrial.  Glorious.  And that annular cutter makes me drool.

What lathe do you have?  No way of getting (or making) an R8 collet adaptor for your headstock?

I have a pre WW2 Logan with a badly worn 3 jaw chuck. I don't have many hours on it and little metal lathe experience period. I might be able to get collets but I'm not sure I want to put much money into it. I may hold out for a deal like the one you got.

One of the biggest problems with the 'learn by doing' method is that if things don't work right, you don't know for sure if it's the tool or operator error.

Nice job with the bondo hack. Work holding is the hardest part of milling IMO. I'd love to have a vacuum table, but even those only solve a handful of problems.

Have you posted a layout of your key mapping ideas? So many buttons to use for capslock now, I want to know which one(s) you choose :)

The Bondo trick worked great and if anyone out there benefits from it, I'm happy.

As for key mapping, no major changes from the original plan. Because I am a somewhat new keyboard user, being twice the age of the average GHer before I even began using a computer, I'm still discovering keyboard shortcuts and tricks which affect how I want the layout.

Caps lock? Although I'll have plenty of keys, I doubt if I will have more than 4 dedicated caps lock keys. Just kidding.  I will have some duplicate modifiers on the ring though. As I wrote earlier in the thread, the primary purpose of the ring keys are to execute various CAD functions without my hands leaving the ball.   One thing that I will note is that I still really like my AlumaPlop's key mapping and physical layout and most of the features will be part of P6. The absence of outer rows beyond the Q and P columns, the omission of a function row, easy to reach thumb keys, staggered columns, 15º 'toe in' angle on the split, some tenting, the reduced row pitch, and the large center mounted trackball work very well for me. The only negative I can think of is that it, like any ergo board, doesn't work well from most positions. You have to commit yourself to it and sit down. Many people who have tried it have done so from a standing position. It just isn't as easy to use that way, even for me; the geometry is all off.

When it's complete, P6 will be tray mounted alongside the AlumaPlop at my desk. One for each computer. The AP will get out occasionally for extended laptop use but will probably spend most of its time next to his younger, but bigger brother.

One thing I haven't worked out yet is the firmware. In the past I've (or actually Ben- IC07)modified the ErgoDox firmware for my custom boards, but because the IO expander is unnecessary in a one piece design, its use is a more complicated and less elegant solution.  If anyone would like to offer assistance adapting an existing keyboard firmware to work with P6, let me know. I'd need something that I could easily remap without any special knowledge, much like the Massdrop configurator.

Thanks everybody for your comments. Your suggestions are more helpful than you probably realize.

Offline kurplop

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #345 on: Sun, 04 September 2016, 01:01:21 »
I found a few minutes to head out to the shop to bevel the cap tops tonight.

They were waiting for me as I left them, cut apart and trimmed with snips, ready to be turned.
147341-0

They fit nicely in the appropriate size collet.
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Mounting a lathe tool to the mill table turned the mill into a vertical lathe.
147345-2

Rather than retooling to clean up the small ridge remaining, I kissed it with a file while still spinning.
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They all turned out great. I guess I should say I should say that 12 did. One got mangled and another was damaged while bandsawing the caps apart. It turned out being a good idea making 2 extra.
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I still need to sand off about 1/3 of the length to properly fit in the ring. I was expecting the beveling to take a long time but I don't think it took more than 20 minutes, start to finish.
« Last Edit: Sun, 04 September 2016, 07:56:12 by kurplop »

Offline Zekromtor

  • Posts: 241
    • My Setup
Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #346 on: Sun, 04 September 2016, 01:54:26 »
I love me some vertical turning on the mill. So nice when you've got a piece that's easy to hold. Great thinking!

Offline S1llyC0ne

  • Posts: 52
  • Location: France
Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #347 on: Sun, 04 September 2016, 02:03:17 »
Those tops look great !

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Offline tufty

  • Posts: 347
  • Location: French Alps
Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #348 on: Sun, 04 September 2016, 02:15:31 »
I have a pre WW2 Logan with a badly worn 3 jaw chuck. I don't have many hours on it and little metal lathe experience period. I might be able to get collets but I'm not sure I want to put much money into it.
Logan's a lovely machine.  How big is it*?

No reason why you couldn't make your own collet chuck for it.  If your 3-jaw chuck is tired, you can improvise a certain amount of the machining on the mill, and for the screwcutting side of things it's possible, but annoying, to shim stuff in a 3-jaw to get it close enough to concentric as long as you have a comparator.  Something like this, perhaps, but adapted for the collets you already have on the mill?

http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/ty/7x10/collet-chuck.pdf

*
(only brits will get this, I suspect)


Offline suicidal_orange

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Re: Planet 6 - The start of a new keyboard by kurplop
« Reply #349 on: Sun, 04 September 2016, 04:24:10 »
I'd be honoured to do the firmware in EasyAVR, what are you using as the controller?
120/100g linear Zealio R1  
GMK Hyperfuse
'Split everything' perfection  
MX Clear
SA Hack'd by Geeks     
EasyAVR mod
MX Brown 30g, HHKBish
Vortex OEM PBT
for See how the other half lives challenge!