Topre switch keyboard owner: Are you satisfied?

[toffz]

As far as I can tell every geekhacker who have had their hands on a keyboard with Topre's switches, seem to be generally satisfied with the switches. Are here anyone who thinks that the money spent wasn't worth it?

Generally I have been very satisfied first with my Das III and then later with Customizer 105. But as long as I have been a geekhack member, I have been wondering how the Topre switches would feel. And now a finnish webstore (http://www.verkkokauppa.com) has become a Topre reseller making it far too easy for me to order a 105 key version of the Realforce less than 200 euros.

So I'm trying to convince myself that if I decide to buy the Realforce that will be my last keyboard I will buy. Has a keyboard with Topre's switches stopped your desire to still buy a new keyboard with different switches?

[kyamei]

I bought a Topre board in each of the main formats (full, tenkeyless, compact) and I am pretty much done with buying keyboards now.  The only thing that caught my interest was the all 55g version, but I think that's probably too heavy for my tastes so I passed.  Been debating if I should sell off all my other boards, they aren't going to be used much if at all.

I love Topres, but it's not for everyone.  Your mileage may vary.

[leos]

Topre is at the time the best you can get (my opinion) . The key feeling and the sound is just amazing. a friend who work now there he will brought one to me next month.

[leos]

I bought a Topre board in each of the main formats (full, tenkeyless, compact) and I am pretty much done with buying keyboards now.  The only thing that caught my interest was the all 55g version, but I think that's probably too heavy for my tastes so I passed.  Been debating if I should sell off all my other boards, they aren't going to be used much if at all.

I love Topres, but it's not for everyone.  Your mileage may vary.

it depends where you live. I write in differed languages and the 105 european key layout fits perfectly for this purpose.

[xyzzy]

I'm trying to convince myself that if I decide to buy the [random keyboard name] that will be my last keyboard I will buy.

This is something most of the geekhackers here do everyday.

And no, it's not working.

[AndrewZorn]

yes it is a rubber dome but it is very smooth and satisfying
but the switch itself probably not worth double price to most

however
the associated build quality with the topre boards (POM, dye sub, overall) makes it worth it

EDIT in case im being unclear,
if it was just topre switches in a filco board, id say it would be worth only a little more than a cherry filco
but the other-than-switches quality is just amazing on the topre boards

[itlnstln]

It happens.

I haven't bought a keyboard with different switches since March.  I just bought a new Cherry (with browns), but only because it was $24 shipped.  I probably wouldn't have bought it otherwise.  For intents and purposes, I have pretty much stopped buying keyboards.  I still haven't tried a Topre yet, but I am not going to jump in without trying one first.

[Rajagra]

I got both of my Topre keyboards at a good price, with accessories, but even so they were a substantial investment. And I have no regrets, they are great.

I was happy with my DAS III too. I don't use it any more though, the full size width is just too annoying now that I've seen the light.

I was less enamoured with my Customizer. Buckling springs aren't my personal favourite. That might be cause for concern for you. If you really like buckling springs, the Topres are very different so might not be to your taste. And switching between them might be harmful to muscle memory.

[didjamatic]

Love my Topre Realforce 103u, love my cherry browns.

At first I wasn't sure about either, but I had been on bucking spring IBM's that were much stiffer, louder and longer travel than these.  Once I adjusted, they're like butter and my WPM increased.  I can type faster on the Topres.

I think I will likely swap between the two for quite some time.  I really like them both and am thinking of getting a 2nd Realforce with a 10key.

Worth the money?  I think so.  But If I had an absolute max budget of $250 so I had to choose between having a rubber dome at work and a topre at home  Vs.  a Cherry at work and a Cherry at home... I would take 2 cherry browns.

As it is, I'm using Cherry Browns at work, Topre at home and loving every minute of it.

[rdjack21]

So I'm trying to convince myself that if I decide to buy the Realforce that will be my last keyboard I will buy. Has a keyboard with Topre's switches stopped your desire to still buy a new keyboard with different switches?

Now that is a tough question and really it depends on you. As for me let see.....

First Topre was the 87U since then I have purchased 5 more Topre boards but until last week I had not purchased anything other than Topre switches in them. Why did I get a non Topre board well I'm on a kinda small keyboard hunt and found a couple I could not pass up because either it was rare or unique in some fashion.

[patrickgeekhack]

Worth the money?  I think so.  But If I had an absolute max budget of $250 so I had to choose between having a rubber dome at work and a topre at home  Vs.  a Cherry at work and a Cherry at home... I would take 2 cherry browns.

I think I would do the same thing too.

As it is, I'm using Cherry Browns at work, Topre at home and loving every minute of it.

This is my current situation.

I have not regretted my $250 spent on this keyboard. If anything, the more I use it, the more I think they were money well spent, especially since I started typing with a very light touch. However, to truly feel that keyboard, you need to give it time. Don't form an opinion right form the first day. The only problem is that it's not very easy to get your hands on one to try before deciding.

[alpslover]

As far as I can tell every geekhacker who have had their hands on a keyboard with Topre's switches, seem to be generally satisfied with the switches. Are here anyone who thinks that the money spent wasn't worth it?

i dislike the varied key weighting of most realforce keyboards, i think it's an answer to a question nobody asked.  as far as the switches themselves, they're not bad, and are pretty good as far as rubber dome type switches go.

i'm ambivalent about the build quality.  the case halves on the realforce 101 are snapped together (no screws) and the font printing on the keys is inconsistent.  not what i would classify as 'high quality'.  yet there are nice subtle details, like the up arrow key being of an angle more 'natural' for the arrow cluster, rather than being the same angle as the other keys on that row, and the '0' key on the number pad being convex rather than concave so your thumb is more comfortable hitting it.

overall, i do not think a realforce is worth over $200.  $100-$125, maybe.  but since all of the keyboards using topre switches are north of $200, you've got no choice but to shell out the money if the topre feel is what you like, so 'worth' perhaps has less importance in this case than, say, with cherry switches, where you can ask 'is it worth it to spend $140 for a filco when i can get a scorpius m10 for $50'.

[itlnstln]

Worth the money? I think so. But If I had an absolute max budget of $250 so I had to choose between having a rubber dome at work and a topre at home Vs. a Cherry at work and a Cherry at home... I would take 2 cherry browns.

This is what I have done.  Not so much because of the budget but due to the cost of a Topre 'board.  I now have 2 Cherry brown 'boards at work (one for my main rig, one for the lappy), and one at home.

[GenEric35]

something that keeps coming back a lot in this thread is using cherry browns at work, I guess the main reason is they are less clicky therefor less noisy? is this the main reason of using the cherry brown at work, what type of work do you do, text writting, data entry, programming, support?

I am currently using an ABS M1 at work and it's a great upgrade from the previous keyboard I was using there(rubber dome dell), but the ABS M1 can be a bit noisy(tops out and has a ringing sound) even if it uses non clicky switches.

I find i work faster when my coworkers are not in the office and I can go 'all out' on the keyboard'. In my case we are two in the same office with a part time 3rd, are you using those cherry browns in a shared office or cubicles?

what brands of keyboard do you use for cherry browns? I don't own a filco but it seems like they are not the most solid build, and typing on something that feels cheap annoys me constantly, are you using a Cherry board, i think those have a steel backplate?

I've got a hhkb pro2 shipping, for coding and development work but i'm hesitating carrying it every day between work and home, fear of dropping it, and at the same time i'm not sure I would leave this hhkb alone at work every night as it does look like something expensive and easy to get stolen.

[ch_123]

No idea where you got the "Filcos are badly built" thing, they're probably the best built Cherry board out there, possibly with the only exception of Cherry's really old G80-1000 boards.

Browns are used by people at work because, like you guessed, they are much quieter than other mechanical switches. Topres are quieter though.

[GenEric35]

No idea where you got the "Filcos are badly built" thing, they're probably the best built Cherry board out there, possibly with the only exception of Cherry's really old G80-1000 boards.

Browns are used by people at work because, like you guessed, they are much quieter than other mechanical switches. Topres are quieter though.

I got the idea the filco were cheap from all the reviews on the keys that are thin, rattle a lot, wear after only a day, not to mention all the pictures of melted filco keys lol.

[ch_123]

I got the idea the filco were cheap from all the reviews on the keys that are thin, rattle a lot, wear after only a day,

A lot of that stuff is overexaggerated. The rattle isn't something particularly obvious or obtrusive unlike, for example, in the Dell AT101W. Truth is that the alternatives have similar problems, and worse (Cherry G80 for example has a load of flex in the case, and no backplate)

not to mention all the pictures of melted filco keys lol.

If you regularly dip your keyboards into boiling water, that is an issue, yeah.

[GenEric35]

A lot of that stuff is overexaggerated. The rattle isn't something particularly obvious or obtrusive unlike, for example, in the Dell AT101W. Truth is that the alternatives have similar problems, and worse (Cherry G80 for example has a load of flex in the case, and no backplate)



If you regularly dip your keyboards into boiling water, that is an issue, yeah.

hehe, boiled filco keys, it's what's for dinner, nom nom nom

seriously, I was thinking on getting a dell at101w, there seems to be a few of them for sale these days, new and used from 35 to 65$, were you saying the keys tend to rattle a lot on this board, or rattle less than average? because that's one problem with my ABS M1, when reach for the arrow keys or the mouse, and come back to the home keys, i have to feel to find the nipple(to find the J home key) and it does create an unnecessary rah-h-h-h scrapping sound louder than typing(lets say i do this 200 times a day), and much of it is just key rattling.

[GenEric35]

I don't like the spacebars on Topres.  Slightly different colored and molding streaks on the front.

Show Image

The point is - you can always find a defect if you look hard enough.  It's plastic.

true, from the pictures I had seen before I never noticed how it was sticking out from the other keys

speaking of space bars, was there a mod(removing spring) on a hhkb space bar to make more silent like the other keys?  I think i'll end up noticing it the day it arrives and will end up modding it.
I guess in this case only the rubber dome is left, is this known to wear out the dome faster once the spring is removed?

Now if only we could get Lego to make keycaps, they would get good ratings here :D

[maxlugar]

hehe, boiled filco keys, it's what's for dinner, nom nom nom

seriously, I was thinking on getting a dell at101w, there seems to be a few of them for sale these days, new and used from 35 to 65$, were you saying the keys tend to rattle a lot on this board, or rattle less than average? because that's one problem with my ABS M1, when reach for the arrow keys or the mouse, and come back to the home keys, i have to feel to find the nipple(to find the J home key) and it does create an unnecessary rah-h-h-h scrapping sound louder than typing(lets say i do this 200 times a day), and much of it is just key rattling.

I have a black Dell AT101W I bought from used from Brandon at Clickeykeyboards.com for $65 a few months ago.   It is in very good condition, but it is not my thing.  

If you are interested in buying it, PM me and I will post pics.  I will sell it for $50 which includes 2-day UPS shippping to anywhere in the continental US.  Guaranteed no DOA.

[ch_123]

I think he lives in Canada.

[patrickgeekhack]

hehe, boiled filco keys, it's what's for dinner, nom nom nom

seriously, I was thinking on getting a dell at101w, there seems to be a few of them for sale these days, new and used from 35 to 65$, were you saying the keys tend to rattle a lot on this board, or rattle less than average? because that's one problem with my ABS M1, when reach for the arrow keys or the mouse, and come back to the home keys, i have to feel to find the nipple(to find the J home key) and it does create an unnecessary rah-h-h-h scrapping sound louder than typing(lets say i do this 200 times a day), and much of it is just key rattling.

You can get a new AT101W for cheaper here. When I bought mine it was $10. With shipping and exchange rate the total was about CDN $47. Exchange rate is much better now. I don't think there is custom fee on anything less than $100.

I don't know if you have tried a Filco, but it's not as bad as you think. I happen to like mine a lot. I think it's a very good looking keyboard to begin with and feels wonderful to type on. I also happen to think that the Filco is well built. It's also true that I knew the keys would probably become a bit shinny after a while but this was not a big deal for me. The rattle will depend on how one types on it. Personally, I don't bottom out on the Filco and I have a lot of fun typing on it. In fact, one of the reasons why I'm so happy to go to work every morning now is I get to play with my Filco. I don't view it as work, but as a fun activity.

[GenEric35]

Re: Topre


All I know for sure is the rubber domes will wear out someday.  Some Japanese bank customers reported doing it in a year.  See 2nd law of thermodynamics.

I don't find the spacebar especially loud but I assume you could stick all kinds of dampeners under there if you wanted.

yea, I heard the sound of the space bar stand out in recordings, but I'll have to hear it from myself.

hmm, second law of thermodynamics? now you got me thinking, isn't the second law of thermo supposed to be mainly how two system balance in temperature and how this migration of heat(conduction?) can be captured to do work, and wasn't conduction the same equation as a capacitor? Is that spring supposed to be used as a capacitor coil that actuates once it reaches a certain capacitance? It's the only relation I can see to thermodynamics.

At first glance I would have tough that the wear is more a dynamics problem than thermodynamics, the only link i can see is that work is done each time the dome is pressed, it heats up, gives away heat, and an infinitesimal part of it's molecular integrity; entropy?

If there is more to it,  please follow through with your reference to the second law of thermodynamics?

[ch_123]

This -

joke   /dʒ'oʊk/
Synonyms:
verb: jest, jape, banter, lark, kid, josh
noun: jest, fun, jape, gag, trick, pleasantry, lark, witticism, quip
jokes plural, 3rd person present;   joking present participle;   joked past tense, past participle

Noun - A joke is something that is said or done to make you laugh, for example a funny story.
"He debated whether to make a joke about shooting rabbits, but decided against it."
"No one told worse jokes than Claus."

[rdjack21]

something that keeps coming back a lot in this thread is using cherry browns at work, I guess the main reason is they are less clicky therefor less noisy? is this the main reason of using the cherry brown at work, what type of work do you do, text writting, data entry, programming, support?

I am currently using an ABS M1 at work and it's a great upgrade from the previous keyboard I was using there(rubber dome dell), but the ABS M1 can be a bit noisy(tops out and has a ringing sound) even if it uses non clicky switches.

Most use the browns at work because they are about the quietest quality board available other than a Topre that is. The ABS M1 I have rattles quit a bit wear as my Filco with browns does not. Also I know some here are not going to like this but the Cherry browns are the closest you are going to get to the feel of a Topre with out having to pay for a Topre. So those that have a Topre but can't get two get a brown for work because it is easy to switch between them with out loosing the lighter touch you need with both boards. Myself I prefer the feel of the Topre over the Cherry browns but with that being said I still have a brown and do use it every now and then.

I find i work faster when my coworkers are not in the office and I can go 'all out' on the keyboard'. In my case we are two in the same office with a part time 3rd, are you using those cherry browns in a shared office or cubicles?

I personally think the Topre is quiter for all out typing but to really get to that level you have to use one for a while to get the feel of it. Which will take longer if you are switching between two different switches.

what brands of keyboard do you use for cherry browns? I don't own a filco but it seems like they are not the most solid build, and typing on something that feels cheap annoys me constantly, are you using a Cherry board, i think those have a steel backplate?

Filco's have plate mounted switches. Cherry boards do not.

I've got a hhkb pro2 shipping, for coding and development work but i'm hesitating carrying it every day between work and home, fear of dropping it, and at the same time i'm not sure I would leave this hhkb alone at work every night as it does look like something expensive and easy to get stolen.

First off congrats on the purchase of a HHKB Pro they are really nice boards. If you do end up carrying it back and forth to work get an extra USB cable it is a lot less hassle to just sit down and plug the cable into your keyboard verses trying to run the one cable to your computer every day. Also get a soft case for it just in case you do drop it.

true, from the pictures I had seen before I never noticed how it was sticking out from the other keys

The space bar does not stick out. It is a slightly lighter color than the other keys which makes it look like it is sticking out. And really you really only see that slight color shift if you really look at it or take a picture of it.

speaking of space bars, was there a mod(removing spring) on a hhkb space bar to make more silent like the other keys?  I think i'll end up noticing it the day it arrives and will end up modding it.
I guess in this case only the rubber dome is left, is this known to wear out the dome faster once the spring is removed?

First off if you remove the spring under the dome of your space bar it will no longer work. The spring under the space bar itself I think it just compensates for the weight of the key. I would think if you want to quieten down the space bar some you would need to modify the two pads under the space bar that hit the underside of the key. But I have not really looked into it because it does not bother me.

[GenEric35]

thanks for the detailed answer, rdjack21 for Topre representative!

[paranonia]

I'm a Linux System Administrator. I pretty like the feeling of Topre switches than Cherry.

[ricercar]

isn't the second law of thermo supposed to be mainly how two system balance in temperature...

Laws of Thermodynamics for Dummies:

• You can't win.
• You can't break even.
• You can't get out of the game.

[didjamatic]

You could use this to pack your HHKB to and from work, but you'd need some really dark sunglasses, day old stubble and some sort of rugged jacket to complete the look.

http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1234173565

[microsoft windows]

The only mistake they care about is the US government's excessive debt.

[paranonia]

You could use this to pack your HHKB to and from work, but you'd need some really dark sunglasses, day old stubble and some sort of rugged jacket to complete the look.

Show Image

http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1234173565

I pretty much like this pack.

[rdjack21]

You could use this to pack your HHKB to and from work, but you'd need some really dark sunglasses, day old stubble and some sort of rugged jacket to complete the look.

Show Image

http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1234173565

Yea I would love to get one of those myself but getting one out of Korea is problematic. I really wish diatec carried some of the HHKB options that leopold has because then EliteKeyboards could get them for us.

[o2dazone]

Something I've noticed letting friends and family borrow my cherry blues, is while they like the feel and the crispness, they prefer the definitive "collapse" of a rubber dome. My opinion is that Topre covers both of these. More travel, and still the collapse of a rubber dome.

Not everyone is an instant fan though...there's a few members on here who bought a Topre and sold it soon after.

[rdjack21]

While some will not believe it I do agree that the Topre is not for everyone. Those that like heavy and clicky switches are the ones that seem to not like them and end up selling them. Not all of them but those that do sell them tend to be the ones that like the heavy switches the best.

[rdjack21]

thanks for the detailed answer, rdjack21 for Topre representative!

I like that better than the Topre fanboy some call me (which I am I just don't really like the fanboy term). Topre representative hmmm...

[Rajagra]

You could use this to pack your HHKB to and from work, but you'd need some really dark sunglasses, day old stubble and some sort of rugged jacket to complete the look.

Show Image

http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1234173565

Kind of reminds me of a violin case. I'm sure you could find one the right size.

[didjamatic]

Well, there's always Zero or Pelican cases.  Pelicans are more durable and customizable.  You can throw a Pelican off of a building and it may survive, incredible things.
You can get a Pelican to fit anything on earth: http://www.pelican.com/calculator.php


Or for the more classic Internantional Man of Mystery look, a Zero Halliburton:

[didjamatic]

Plenty of cases on ebay, this one is ABS and measures 11.5" x 3.5” x 7"

Clarinet Case
More...

[iMav]

The HHKB2 used to be THE hot keyboard around here mainly because of form factor, not the switch, because their main advocates were programmers.  Now it's not clear how  that $250 should be spent..

I've never been into the "standard layout" Topre 'boards.  The switches are acceptable to me, but the primary value of the HHKB is the layout.  I find it to be the perfect layout...and actually feel like I'm MISSING keys on other, standard layout keyboards (primarily due to the great FN+key combinations).

If money was no object, I'd probably own six HHKB's (and a few spares).  As it stands, I have a blue Cherry Filco mini on my main system (absolutely love blue and brown Cherry keyswitches) and a bunch of M4's on several other systems.  I carry the HHKB with me as my mobile 'board and use it quite a bit.

BTW, I have lots of AT101W's NIB...so if anyone needs one, PM me.

[GenEric35]

You could use this to pack your HHKB to and from work, but you'd need some really dark sunglasses, day old stubble and some sort of rugged jacket to complete the look.

Show Image

http://leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1234173565

hehe, it's not just a carrying case! it's a life style!
i'm also considering buying a laptop bag to carry my hhkb,
i went to this used computer place, and they hay had old leather dell laptop bags for 10$,
they looked weather beaten, but cool, there was lots of other models too
realy id just like an extra safe pouch on my lunch bag, something with a flap so it dosent snow on it

yea, i wish elitekeyboards was selling those

[bigpook]

There are scripts you can use to emulate the HHKB layout. I am using one on my linux box for all of my keyboards at home. Whats important for me is the page up/page down, home and end. I don't sweat the the function keys.Cntrl is where it needs to be and so is escape. Having said that, I still regret selling my HHKB. I wish I still had it.

[paranonia]

There are scripts you can use to emulate the HHKB layout. I am using one on my linux box for all of my keyboards at home. Whats important for me is the page up/page down, home and end. I don't sweat the the function keys.Cntrl is where it needs to be and so is escape. Having said that, I still regret selling my HHKB. I wish I still had it.

Could you please show me where  to find these scripts?

I'm also a Linux user by using HHKB now, thank you!

[GenEric35]

Well, there's always Zero or Pelican cases.  Pelicans are more durable and customizable.  You can throw a Pelican off of a building and it may survive, incredible things.
You can get a Pelican to fit anything on earth: http://www.pelican.com/calculator.php

Show Image

Or for the more classic Internantional Man of Mystery look, a Zero Halliburton:

Show Image

that would do heheh, probably very expensive, then again I wouldn't be surprised the original hhkb case is selling for alot too

[GenEric35]

Could you please show me where  to find these scripts?

I'm also a Linux user by using HHKB now, thank you!

it's achieved from configuration scripts for autohotkey, i think they were made from people here at geekhack

original thread

which i think evolved to 'the sqeezboard' layout

[HungryPillow]

OK I've got to say... some of those cases for the keyboard are total overkill.

[paranonia]

it's achieved from configuration scripts for autohotkey, i think they were made from people here at geekhack

original thread

which i think evolved to 'the sqeezboard' layout

Thank you. BTW, why did you sell out your HHKB pro2? ( Forget it, I got wrong. )

[GenEric35]

OK I've got to say... some of those cases for the keyboard are total overkill.

if people could add a 20$ option when buying a keyboard, to include a carrying case, this would be perfect for those who do need a carrying case,

for example, I just ordered a white hhkb with no letters, to fit my igloo...
if i drop it in the snow, i might never find it again

[didjamatic]

OK I've got to say... some of those cases for the keyboard are total overkill.

I agree completely, but then again, what we pay for keyboards around here would be overkill to 99.999% of the planet.

If I packed a $200-300 keyboard to and from work daily like some do, I'd consider a $20 case to protect it for sure.

[microsoft windows]

I'd just keep it at work. I'd get too many laughs if I brought my keyboards to work everyday.

[rdjack21]

it's achieved from configuration scripts for autohotkey, i think they were made from people here at geekhack

original thread

which i think evolved to 'the sqeezboard' layout

Thank you. BTW, why did you sell out your HHKB pro2? ( Forget it, I got wrong. )

Actually you want this thread for the linux script.