Topre or Bust?

[gohono3]

Hi GeekHack,

I just posted my new member greeting, I wanted to follow up with a looming decision..

After a few months of reading I think it's time to take my keyboard more seriously.  Below are the front runners:

HHKB Pro 2
Realforce 87U TKL 55g

I also have a WASD V2 TKL Custom at the back of my mind for gaming and bling.  I've read that after using Topre keys I might not be able to settle for the cherry switches. 

I'm very happy with the form factor of TKL keyboards, and I'm concerned that the 60% form factor might be too small.  I also need to determine my preference between the 45g vs 55g sensitivity.  I plan on making an appointment to visit EliteKeyboards and try these products out.

I appreciate if anyone has any insight, advice, alternatives, or good humor they want to toss in the pot to stir things up a bit!

[jerue]

There isn't much that compares to the 55g Realforce...got one about this time last year and still use it daily. Had a HHKB and sold it within a couple of months. Truthfully you can't go wrong with either keyboard but if you like TKL why not just get the TKL board?

[Dongulator]

I've read that after using Topre keys I might not be able to settle for the cherry switches. 

This is exactly what happened to me.I would go for the hhkb, it's probably the more popular of the boards and if you don't like it, it's an easy resell. I've never typed on hhkb myself, but I've only ever heard great things.

[romevi]

Keep one Cherry MX with linears for display, get both of those Topre boards. Then get a good buckling spring board and you're set for life.

[bocahgundul]

Keep one Cherry MX with linears for display, get both of those Topre boards. Then get a good buckling spring board and you're set for life.

Don't forget alps man! And yeah romevi was right, Keep 1 linear cherry board and get HHKB.

[romevi]

Keep one Cherry MX with linears for display, get both of those Topre boards. Then get a good buckling spring board and you're set for life.

Don't forget alps man! And yeah romevi was right, Keep 1 linear cherry board and get HHKB.

Haven't tried Alps yet.

[bocahgundul]

Keep one Cherry MX with linears for display, get both of those Topre boards. Then get a good buckling spring board and you're set for life.

Don't forget alps man! And yeah romevi was right, Keep 1 linear cherry board and get HHKB.

Haven't tried Alps yet.

U need to try it man! Get an AEK 2 with orange alps and see how you like it there are some on ebay tho

[romevi]

I thought AEK IIs had salmon or dampened white.

[bocahgundul]

I thought AEK IIs had salmon or dampened white.

I'm wrong man I mean to say original AEK

[baotung]

I'm using a 45G Uni 87u and a Variable weight 87u. I have wussy fingers, so my fingers get tired with even the 45g. I didn't like my var weight at first, but it grew on me. I'm now using the 45 at work at the var at home. I DO sometimes press "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" because of how light it is on the variable weight.

Much better typing experience than my two filcos, but quite terrible for gaming IMO.

[romevi]

I'm using a 45G Uni 87u and a Variable weight 87u. I have wussy fingers, so my fingers get tired with even the 45g. I didn't like my var weight at first, but it grew on me. I'm now using the 45 at work at the var at home. I DO sometimes press "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" because of how light it is on the variable weight.

Much better typing experience than my two filcos, but quite terrible for gaming IMO.

I use 55g and I still press keys accidentally. Mostly S and L.

[1391406]

Personally, I prefer 45G over 55G. I like the TKL form factor due to the standard layout with dedicated arrow keys and would never be satisfied with a 60% layout. I'm fairly certain the HHKB typing experience is awesome, but the layout is a deal breaker for me.

Anyway, your best bet might be to try the HHKB first. If you're not really satisfied with it for some reason, then give the Realforce a shot. However, if you're going to visit Elite Keyboards then you'll probably find out soon enough.

[lootbag]

Having the chance to try before buying is the best.
That being said, I say go for 87u 55g for familiarity unless you are really committed to convert to 60%.
I started using the HHKB 5 years ago and now I don't feel the need to use anything else larger than 60%.

[gohono3]

Keep one Cherry MX with linears for display, get both of those Topre boards. Then get a good buckling spring board and you're set for life.

A little off topic, but is there a budget friendly buckling spring board recommended to start out with?

[romevi]

Keep one Cherry MX with linears for display, get both of those Topre boards. Then get a good buckling spring board and you're set for life.

A little off topic, but is there a budget friendly buckling spring board recommended to start out with?

A Unicomp is about as cheapest as you're gonna get for a brand new buckling spring board. Unless you luck out on eBay.
There's a drop for a Unicomp over on Massdrop right now.

[Anastasia]

I prefer the 60% form factor as I never use the numpad and the function keys are just an additional keypress. In return, I gain a lot of desk space, ergonomic comfort and an aesthetically pleasing board.

[Bucake]

45g EK edition of the realforce 87u is back in stock as well (elitekeyboards)

[1391406]

45g EK edition of the realforce 87u is back in stock as well (elitekeyboards)

Oh wow. If I were looking for a 45G Topre board, this would be it.

To the OP, scratch my previous comment. Forget the HHKB and grab this.  Uniform 45G Realforce TKL's aren't easy to find.

[The Hobbiest]

Everybody that lurks these forum and eventually joins ask this question.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was responsible for 50% of sells for these companies offering topre keyboards.  Anticipate reading some answers. I'm planning on getting one of these boards (hhkb2, realforece 87u 55g, or realforce 45g) as well.

[jamster]

Keep one Cherry MX with linears for display, get both of those Topre boards. Then get a good buckling spring board and you're set for life.

A little off topic, but is there a budget friendly buckling spring board recommended to start out with?

Secondhand IBM Model M. Only readily and inexpensively available in full size though.

On the Topre front, I find the layout of the HHKB a complete showstopper. I constantly use the arrow keys and have no desire for having them embedded in a function layer. Ditto the function keys- I guess you might be able to get around them being in an extra layer for most uses, but not if you play games.

[Oxid]

I've got an HHKB and I quite like it, that being said, I'm also incredibly interested in the 87u in 55g. My only concern is that I find 45g already decently heavy (at least up until activation, after that it's buttery goodness).

Best of luck in the decision! You honestly can't go wrong with either one.

[kekman]

topre all the wayyyy

[Crossfire]

I've got an HHKB and I quite like it, that being said, I'm also incredibly interested in the 87u in 55g. My only concern is that I find 45g already decently heavy (at least up until activation, after that it's buttery goodness).

Best of luck in the decision! You honestly can't go wrong with either one.

I've read somewhere that "vintage" hhkb pro 1 models from cca 2003-2005 require more force on downstrokes because of the aging 45g domes, which became a tad stiffer through the years. Will test that theory soon when that "oldie" arrives 

[Oxid]

I've got an HHKB and I quite like it, that being said, I'm also incredibly interested in the 87u in 55g. My only concern is that I find 45g already decently heavy (at least up until activation, after that it's buttery goodness).

Best of luck in the decision! You honestly can't go wrong with either one.

I've read somewhere that "vintage" hhkb pro 1 models from cca 2003-2005 require more force on downstrokes because of the aging 45g domes, which became a tad stiffer through the years. Will test that theory soon when that "oldie" arrives 

Oo, that's cool, let me know how that goes!

[mobbo]

I feel like people beat themselves up over this question, when it doesn't really even matter.

Most will end up trying both at some point during their enthusiast career, and they'll all say that both are fantastic boards.

There is no unanimous agreement as to what is better between 45g and 55g - but apparently you have the luxury of trying them out prior to purchasing!

If you're worried about 60%, just get the Realforce. You're not losing anything by doing so. You can even swap the Ctrl/Caps Lock to have a pseudo-HHKB layout. If you need a board that's easy to transport or for travelling - get the HHKB.

[gohono3]

45g EK edition of the realforce 87u is back in stock as well (elitekeyboards)

Oh wow. If I were looking for a 45G Topre board, this would be it.

To the OP, scratch my previous comment. Forget the HHKB and grab this.  Uniform 45G Realforce TKL's aren't easy to find.

That seems to be the most enticing alternative, although it looks like it is on back order until early next month.

I don't mind the wait, and it could give me a chance to try out the HHKB first as you originally suggested.

[toxicdrift]

Realforce 87U TKL 55g. endgame board, period. 

[1391406]

45g EK edition of the realforce 87u is back in stock as well (elitekeyboards)

Oh wow. If I were looking for a 45G Topre board, this would be it.

To the OP, scratch my previous comment. Forget the HHKB and grab this.  Uniform 45G Realforce TKL's aren't easy to find.

That seems to be the most enticing alternative, although it looks like it is on back order until early next month.

I don't mind the wait, and it could give me a chance to try out the HHKB first as you originally suggested.

The only thing to bear in mind is that Elite Keyboards doesn't offer returns on HHKB's (or RF's), so if you can't visit them first and happen to buy one and don't like it, you'll have to re-sell it yourself.

[romevi]

45g EK edition of the realforce 87u is back in stock as well (elitekeyboards)

Oh wow. If I were looking for a 45G Topre board, this would be it.

To the OP, scratch my previous comment. Forget the HHKB and grab this.  Uniform 45G Realforce TKL's aren't easy to find.

That seems to be the most enticing alternative, although it looks like it is on back order until early next month.

I don't mind the wait, and it could give me a chance to try out the HHKB first as you originally suggested.

The only thing to bear in mind is that Elite Keyboards doesn't offer returns on HHKB's (or RF's), so if you can't visit them first and happen to buy one and don't like it, you'll have to re-sell it yourself.

Wait, really? I thought that was one of the things people kept mentioning, that if you don't like it you can return it.

[1391406]

45g EK edition of the realforce 87u is back in stock as well (elitekeyboards)

Oh wow. If I were looking for a 45G Topre board, this would be it.

To the OP, scratch my previous comment. Forget the HHKB and grab this.  Uniform 45G Realforce TKL's aren't easy to find.

That seems to be the most enticing alternative, although it looks like it is on back order until early next month.

I don't mind the wait, and it could give me a chance to try out the HHKB first as you originally suggested.

The only thing to bear in mind is that Elite Keyboards doesn't offer returns on HHKB's (or RF's), so if you can't visit them first and happen to buy one and don't like it, you'll have to re-sell it yourself.

Wait, really? I thought that was one of the things people kept mentioning, that if you don't like it you can return it.

Elite Keyboards has a no test drives and no exchanges policy in relation to their HHKB's and Realforce's:

"The return policy for many products is stated at the bottom of the product page. For most keyboards we do not accept returns for a refund; due to sanitary reasons we can/will not resell a used keyboard so please make your purchase with consideration for this policy. ELITEKEYBOARDS IS NOT A TEST-DRIVE SERVICE."

[Perish]

Just got a Realforce 87UW55 and its nice. The 55g's are definitely different. I am still in that getting used to it phase. Its not clicky. Its hard to describe the sound. I think its more of a lack of sound. Either way I think I like it.

[nubbinator]

HHKB.

[madhias]

Just got a Realforce 87UW55 and its nice. The 55g's are definitely different. I am still in that getting used to it phase. Its not clicky. Its hard to describe the sound. I think its more of a lack of sound. Either way I think I like it.

For me it is a mature, very sexy THOCK!

[gohono3]

Thank you to everyone for the great insight into these products!

I've setup an appointment with Brian at Elite Keyboards, he is awesome and informative.

I decided to wait for the Uniform 45g Realforce TKL restock, so I should have this wrapped up by March 12th.

This purchase is my birthday splurge, which was yesterday, so I will have to exercise some patience.. 



 

[Perish]

I gain a lot of desk space

Come on now 

[Perish]

Thank you to everyone for the great insight into these products!

I've setup an appointment with Brian at Elite Keyboards, he is awesome and informative.

I decided to wait for the Uniform 45g Realforce TKL restock, so I should have this purchase wrapped up by March 12th.

This purchase is my birthday splurge, which was yesterday, so I will have to exercise some patience.. 

Either way a popular Topre keyboard is basically a liquid asset. I really don't think you would lose much if you ended up selling it. Especially if stock in a particular model dries up.

[1391406]

I decided to wait for the Uniform 45g Realforce TKL restock, so I should have this wrapped up by March 12th.

An awesome choice indeed. I have a white 45g 87U and love it. Not quite as much as my variable weighted 104U silent but it's my second favorite board to date.

[fknraiden]

Realforce 87U TKL 55g. endgame board, period. 

This man speaks truth. I sold my lightsaver and bought a 55g RF and love it way more. Haven't bought another keyboard since.

[Altis]

I decided to wait for the Uniform 45g Realforce TKL restock, so I should have this wrapped up by March 12th.

An awesome choice indeed. I have a white 45g 87U and love it. Not quite as much as my variable weighted 104U silent but it's my second favorite board to date.

I have a similar variety pack of keyboards and I too consider the 45g 87U to be one of, if not my favorite of them all.

I'm curious though -- you prefer the variable to the 45g uniform?

[1391406]

I decided to wait for the Uniform 45g Realforce TKL restock, so I should have this wrapped up by March 12th.

An awesome choice indeed. I have a white 45g 87U and love it. Not quite as much as my variable weighted 104U silent but it's my second favorite board to date.

I have a similar variety pack of keyboards and I too consider the 45g 87U to be one of, if not my favorite of them all.

I'm curious though -- you prefer the variable to the 45g uniform?

Oddly enough, I do. Based on all of the negative reviews I'd read I was fully expecting the variable weighting to be mushy, inconsistent in feel, and far too light. In fact, when I ordered my silenced 104U, I'd already made up my mind to mod it with 45g domes. But after trying it, I was so impressed with the feel, I decided to keep it stock. In fact, I've been seriously considering buying another silenced 104U from EK to swap the domes and stems into my 45g 87U.

[Altis]

I decided to wait for the Uniform 45g Realforce TKL restock, so I should have this wrapped up by March 12th.

An awesome choice indeed. I have a white 45g 87U and love it. Not quite as much as my variable weighted 104U silent but it's my second favorite board to date.

I have a similar variety pack of keyboards and I too consider the 45g 87U to be one of, if not my favorite of them all.

I'm curious though -- you prefer the variable to the 45g uniform?

Oddly enough, I do. Based on all of the negative reviews I'd read I was fully expecting the variable weighting to be mushy, inconsistent in feel, and far too light. In fact, when I ordered my silenced 104U, I'd already made up my mind to mod it with 45g domes. But after trying it, I was so impressed with the feel, I decided to keep it stock. In fact, I've been seriously considering buying another silenced 104U from EK to swap the domes and stems into my 45g 87U.

Good to know, thanks!

I originally got the 55g 87U since everyone speaks so highly of it, but I do find it too heavy so I got a 45g uniform that's pretty much perfect (as is the 45g HHKB for the most part).

I can't help but wonder what the variable is like to type on though. I've been pondering for a while about swapping the 55g out for variable weight at some point since I have barely used the 55g since getting the 45g.

I'm actually very curious about the elusive 30g or 35g Topre boards but I have no idea how to find one.

[1391406]

I originally got the 55g 87U since everyone speaks so highly of it, but I do find it too heavy so I got a 45g uniform that's pretty much perfect (as is the 45g HHKB for the most part).

This was how I felt about the 45g 87U before trying the 104U.

I can't help but wonder what the variable is like to type on though.

The weighting is close to MX Red and the feel is similar to Orange Alps but with a softer landing.

I've been pondering for a while about swapping the 55g out for variable weight at some point since I have barely used the 55g since getting the 45g.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by selling the 55g and investing in a variable. If you don't like it, you're no worse off than if you'd kept the 55g.

[rowdy]

Why not get both, wash your hands and keep them clean, and if you find that you prefer one over the other, then sell the other one.

[bocahgundul]

Why not get both, wash your hands and keep them clean, and if you find that you prefer one over the other, then sell the other one.

These is the right answers but yeah just keep both of the board man 

[gohono3]

I was able to visit Elite Keyboards for a demonstration a bit over a week ago and I did not leave empty handed.. I'm glad to report that I'm the proud owner of a new blank black HHKB! I've brought it to work with me throughout the week to get further acquainted.  In a short span of time it has become a joy to type again.  The feeling reminds me of when I was a sprout excitedly clacking away at Mario Teaches Typing..

First off, Brian at Elite Keyboards is a pleasure to interact with and if you are in the Southern California region I would recommend stopping by. A wondrous opportunity to try these top tier products toe to toe!

Some general thoughts, bearing in mind my limited experience.. Coming from MX Browns, I found the Topre 45g weighting to be perfect.  I'm fairly sure that my fingers would be fatigued after a few hours of use with the 55g, but I don't think it would be impossible to adjust.  If you're a rock climber, shred heavily on the guitar, or just have hulk hands I would imagine the 55g would be a better fit.

The Realforce 45g 87U appeared to be the best constructed keyboard I interacted with.  The plate mounting gave the keys a very consistent feel across the board.  It isn't hard to see why Realforce earns such praise and I would describe their product in two words as sturdy and elegant.  The only issue I have with the Realforce brand is the fixed USB cable, as I've had my eye on some custom MiMic cables from GH mod tjcaustin before I even decided on a keyboard.

As mentioned previously, I don't think I could have made a mistake choosing between the Realforce and HHKB, after comparing the products I don't think it is fair to say one is better than the other.  Both keyboards are great in their own respect.  I think for most it may come down to form factor and intended purpose. 

I went there with an open mind, but the HHKB kept whispering in my ears.. The combination of the 60% form factor and beautiful layout demands a lot of attention. In the back of my mind I also wanted to be able to take this board with me with little hassle. I will likely continue to use TKL for a gaming setup, but there is a distinct appeal to a 60% board for me. I tend to be a minimalist at heart leaning towards smaller boards so this is all purely preference.

The simplest way for me to describe typing on the HHKB in one word is "Fun", with a capitol "F".  It does feel more organic as some have described it, maybe less consistent versus a plate. The extra layer of feedback leaves me feeling more connected to the device overall. I was worried about the layout changes from a standard keyboard and it took all of half a day to get comfortable. My hands are moving less while typing than they ever have. If you commit time learning this intuitive layout I think most will find it preferable. I couldn't fully explain why I was drawn more to the HHKB, but I will say it is a genuine pleasure to type on that I enjoy more each chance I get.

Now that I have opened Pandora's Box, I think my next venture will have to be a fully programmable 60%.. Thanks again for all the help and allowing me the opportunity to share!

[tominabox1]

Nah don't go for some MX programmable if you're happy with the HHKB, instead, get one of Hasu's TMK converters and use that in your HHKB!

Welcome to the church of the cup rubber ohmmmmmm  )

[klennkellon]

Keep one Cherry MX with linears for display, get both of those Topre boards. Then get a good buckling spring board and you're set for life.

A little off topic, but is there a budget friendly buckling spring board recommended to start out with?

You  routinely find Model M's in decent condition for reasonably cheap on Ebay, around $50 to $80, just look up the model number first so you don't accidentally get one of the rubber dome variants or an incompatible Terminal version.

Unicomp is the only way to get a brand new BS boards, they're decent but not 100% up to the quality of the original model m's, that being said, the typing feel is still 100% identical.

[Bucake]

Nah don't go for some MX programmable if you're happy with the HHKB, instead, get one of Hasu's TMK converters and use that in your HHKB!

yueah!

[Macsmasher]

I've got an HHKB and I quite like it, that being said, I'm also incredibly interested in the 87u in 55g. My only concern is that I find 45g already decently heavy (at least up until activation, after that it's buttery goodness).

Best of luck in the decision! You honestly can't go wrong with either one.

I have a RF variable and a RF 55g. (I bought the 55g because of all the hype on GH about it.) The 55g is too heavy for me. I still like it and rotate it in once in awhile. It's fine for coding. But for doing a lot of typing, it's too fatiguing. I also like the 45g switches on my HHKB.

[demik]

just get a KUL with blues

More

and dumb that **** in the trash then go buy yourself an hhkb