Author Topic: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!  (Read 111899 times)

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Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #250 on: Tue, 16 October 2012, 00:28:27 »
I will try to start compiling some new information and reformat the Kinesis article...I sent the mods a PM to see what is here/missing and what options exist to fix and get the projects info more available. I know others have done this, but I've been out of the loop for months. Once I get that squared away, I'll ask a few of you guys to hop in and make it the resource it was meant to be.

IMPORTANT KEYBOARD LAYOUTS (and links to websites)-
-Colemak 3rd most popular layout after qwerty and Dvorak, more efficient than either.
-Workman (very Kinesis oriented) Minimizes diagonal movement, keeps fingers in main rows.
-Arensito (very Kinesis oriented)
-Malt (very Kinesis oriented) Has the "E" key in the thumb cluster and minimizes the bottom row. They show some variations on their website.
-QGMLWB from the CarpalX website, there are several layout options....this particular one reflects the least effort used.

LAPTOP TRACKPOINT-
-IBM has quite a few laptop track points that are NOT integrated with the controller boards. It would be nice if there could be a list with a bunch of model numbers compiled (besides the trusty IBMKPD8923). The benefit of the KPD8923 is that it's ready to go. No mod, just plug it in. The laptop units need to be extended and wired. Time is money!


CUSTOM KEYCAPS-
-Still don't have all the answers on PBT
« Last Edit: Sat, 27 October 2012, 00:24:05 by input nirvana »
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline mikelanding

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #251 on: Tue, 16 October 2012, 01:07:03 »
For trackpad, this seem good http://www.ergonomictouchpad.com/ergonomic_touchpad.php
I plan to buy the small one and put between the thumbkey area like below

photo credit to: http://endoframe.com/log/2010/07/05/touched/
HHKB Type-S | Kinesis Advantage | Maltron 3D 2Hand | Ergodox (62g ErgoClear)

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #252 on: Tue, 16 October 2012, 10:44:55 »
Yes.
Have you seen the people that have put the trackpad under/into the case? I have pics, but they are disconnected from the Kinesis article :(
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline mikelanding

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #253 on: Tue, 16 October 2012, 11:49:28 »
Yes.
Have you seen the people that have put the trackpad under/into the case? I have pics, but they are disconnected from the Kinesis article :(
No. I didnt found any yet. Do you know this touchpad work on Mac OSX? had email them but ni reply yet.
HHKB Type-S | Kinesis Advantage | Maltron 3D 2Hand | Ergodox (62g ErgoClear)

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #254 on: Tue, 16 October 2012, 12:01:40 »
Yes it works with OSX, it's plug and play.

I'll try and post a pic of a trackpad 'built in'
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline mikelanding

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #255 on: Tue, 16 October 2012, 12:04:30 »
that is good new. i will make a purchase then
How i wish apple trackpad is smaller. haha
HHKB Type-S | Kinesis Advantage | Maltron 3D 2Hand | Ergodox (62g ErgoClear)

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #256 on: Tue, 16 October 2012, 12:16:21 »
I have the Apple Magic Trackpad..I use in on my Kinesis sometimes...it's a great trackpad with OSX...I've not used anything better as far as functioninality.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #257 on: Sat, 30 March 2013, 14:06:17 »
IN any updates on your split kinesis with trackpoint mod ?  I'd love to see a completed photo!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #258 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 09:50:43 »
Regarding trackpads...there is the Apple Magic Trackpad and last summer I saw a Logitech Trackpad that is similar in size. I have not used it but it is multitouch.

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/touchpads?view=34&a1=1&compproducts=9966,10337

My track point modded Kinesis has been out of commission for a very long time. I got hung up on trying to do all mods at once, got caught up in the details and stopped progressing. Now that life is getting on track I'll pull out and assemble, then deal with the additional mods on a case-by-case basis.

Oddly one of the reasons the Split Kinesis is not my daily driver is because it is split and the way I'd made it, more or less requires it to be chair mounted. I need to replicate the Datahand Chair Mount kit. I have another Kinesis that is not to be split that I have a trackpoint for as well, I should do that...it's pretty much the most awesome way to type on a Kinesis.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #259 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 12:06:31 »
Hey IN, when will you repopulate your photos in your article? At least the keyboard-related ones! LOL
Seriously, they are too valuable to miss, please take a day and do it, I had to do the same for my extra-keys article, just dug through my computer and put my photos back... it took a few hours but was worth it.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #260 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 12:17:00 »
I just located the photos Soarer sent me. Uberben asked me recently to forward the emails with the photos to him. I'm hoping to get started on it, but I'm having access problems with the original article. A year ago I had started to create a 'wiki' format, but that got blown out by R00tworm. I haven't looked to see anything about the current wiki format/situation, I know it was in transition for a while. I would like to throw the photos plus a few others I had. Good references for peeps.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #261 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 12:24:40 »
Not sure what access issues you are refering to. You have been modifying the OP of this thread with announcements and such (last edit shows April 9), so ... have you tried to upload an attachment recently? It should work. Maybe the old attachment references in those square brackets are causing you issues, just delete them (or replace them with your own text labels if you need to remember all the spots that had images).
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #262 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 12:40:54 »
The last edit was April 9 2011

I just tried to edit the OP and it says the message is "too big" and won't let me alter it.

I'm forgetting now, but the original kinesis info used to be an article with the thread of posts attached to it....now the original article is the OP. Must have been part of the R00tworm-destroy-archive-rebuild process? No matter I guess. I need to see how to make a new "wiki, or thread or article or..."?
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #263 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 12:43:26 »
2011 ??? Whoops, I didn't bother to look at the year :-)
Hmm, maybe cut the text and paste it in a local document (or email) for safekeeping, and just replace the entire article with a couple of words. If the edit goes through, then you should be able to paste back your stuff (or the most important bits of it) in another edit. Worth the try!
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #264 on: Sat, 18 May 2013, 13:17:58 »
Yes, I came to a similar conclusion. The important factor is that makes it a lot easier/saves time-energy. That has been a stumbling block for me, need to make things smaller, easier and just get it done. It can always be modified/added later. I'll get on it.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline syntaxfree

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #265 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 11:43:41 »
Forgive me if this somehow breaks Geekhack etiquette, but -- I'm new and all that.

I seem to have borked an entire keyswitch (the one on top of PageUp, left of Control) on my second keyboard, one I bought for work and went about switching keycaps far from finer tools like tweezers and such. I eventually lost the spring for this particular key in an attempt to figure out what was wrong, but before that the key was already stuck; I don't know exactly how I borked it originally, except that I pulled it to one side somehow. (When I switched my keycaps for my first keyboard at home, I removed the whole thumb-area group to avoid such occurrences; at work, I had about half an hour to get it running before falling behind schedule).

 How do I source a single key switch appropriately sized for this key? I don't mean keycap, I mean the key innards itself.

Offline sordna

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #266 on: Wed, 22 May 2013, 15:48:29 »
wasdkeyboards sells individual Cherry MX switches:

http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/products/keyboard-parts-1.html

they do not have diodes or pins like the ones used on the advantage, but the stems and springs are the same.
Alternatively you can get switch replacements from Kinesis.
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline regicide

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #267 on: Thu, 23 May 2013, 01:38:13 »
For trackpad, this seem good http://www.ergonomictouchpad.com/ergonomic_touchpad.php
I plan to buy the small one and put between the thumbkey area like below
Show Image

photo credit to: http://endoframe.com/log/2010/07/05/touched/

I bought one of these for my Kinesis and wasn't very happy with it, the performance was very mediocre; no multitouch and only allowed scrolling along the right edge, it often wouldn't pick up when I was trying to scroll and seemed to sometimes get stuck in scroll mode (wouldn't let me move the mouse, had to unplug to reset it).

I am considering trying to mount my Logitech T650 but it overhangs the front by 2cm, as shown here (apologies for the poor lighting)
2 Kinesis advantages (MX browns)

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #268 on: Fri, 24 May 2013, 00:17:57 »
For trackpad, this seem good http://www.ergonomictouchpad.com/ergonomic_touchpad.php
I plan to buy the small one and put between the thumbkey area like below
Show Image

photo credit to: http://endoframe.com/log/2010/07/05/touched/

I bought one of these for my Kinesis and wasn't very happy with it, the performance was very mediocre; no multitouch and only allowed scrolling along the right edge, it often wouldn't pick up when I was trying to scroll and seemed to sometimes get stuck in scroll mode (wouldn't let me move the mouse, had to unplug to reset it).

I am considering trying to mount my Logitech T650 but it overhangs the front by 2cm, as shown here (apologies for the poor lighting)
Show Image


Thanks for the information on the Ergonomic Touch Pad. I only used one briefly at an ergonomic store and once again briefly on someones computer, but didn't get to see what it could do besides some clicking/scrolling. There was some buzz about it a couple years ago, but that died out pretty fast. It never gets reviewed anywhere...so thanks :)

LOGITECH:
How do you like the Logitech? I have not tried the Logitech, only the Apple Magic Trackpad...I understand they are similar. Is there any chance you can do a review of the Logitech here on Geekhack, and maybe post in this thread with a link? It would be much appreciated.

Also, I'm sorry the article/wiki is borked and pics missing. I have just relocated the pics and will be repopulating the article and editing/updating it in the next several weeks.

Eye candy:

Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline madderoftime

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #269 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 13:39:00 »
Following your artical and read through everything but like others all the attachments missing makes some things difficult. Could you send me the pics? I have 2 of the Advantages with the memory upgrades and would LOVE to change out the blasted Fkeys. Would be great to see how you did it.
GH60 Nevermore

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #270 on: Thu, 27 June 2013, 15:06:15 »
I will get some stuff done in a week. You can PM me your email/I'll try to get pics loaded. I'm close to getting the article resolved.

I know your pain, that's why I did that mod :)
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
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Offline uberben

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #271 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 09:05:17 »
If you are already emailing out some pics, feel free to send them my way to. I will PM you my email too.

Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #272 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 09:07:13 »
Please upload the pictures to the article. It's unfair to the rest of us that there's three select people who get emailed pictures. I'm tired of using my imagination for this article! :P
Please check out TactileZine.com!

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #273 on: Fri, 28 June 2013, 21:59:47 »
****, you guys are worse that Velicoraptors!

No one's got anything from me yet, but I AM committing to follow up and get the more important stuff to peeps chop-chop quickee.

I think I have everything that was there previously, and some of the stuff that didn't manage to get posted, except for the wiring for the cherry switch F keys. I have a bunch of interesting links, and a few other reference items I've gathered here and there in spite of my absence from GH this past year or so. Stuff will start getting done within a couple weeks.

I need to populate the media wiki Mkawa (hate that Kawa) set up. Haven't done that before, so I need to spend a little time getting my bearings on that.


Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
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Offline keeeeenw

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #274 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 10:26:05 »
You directed me to your article from my "First Ergo Keyboard" thread. It is exactly what I am looking for. Now, I know much better about the different models of Kinesis keyboards. Thank you for sharing the information!

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #275 on: Sun, 30 June 2013, 11:26:07 »
This is what Geekhack is all about, it's basically our mission statement.

Working on fixing and filling out the missing stuff.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
Staying in touch via Tapatalk VIP                                        Thanks much, Smallfry  
I AM THE REAPER . . . BECAUSE I KILL IT
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Offline Poom

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #276 on: Fri, 12 July 2013, 08:13:07 »
Hi, I was reading the internet about the Kinesis Advantage and somehow almost every reviewers said good things about the "guidebook" that comes with the Advantage, to help adapt to this layout. So im interested. but since I dont own a Kinesis, perhaps somebody has that book and can share?

Thank you so much in advance.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #277 on: Fri, 12 July 2013, 08:41:42 »
These links are the Kinesis website and the 2 User Manuals:

http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/support/advantage-usb-manual_09-11.pdf
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/support/advantage-userguide_11-12%20.pdf

You can post a link to the reviews that mention the helpful guidebook....I don't know if they are referring to the user manuals or a 'typing exercises" guide. I don't know if the typing exercises guide is on their website.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
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Offline kfmfe04

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #278 on: Sat, 18 January 2014, 07:13:36 »
Background

For years, I have bought keyboards with the control key in the caps-lock position.  When I bought a MacBook Pro before I got into mechanical keyboards, I made sure I got a Japanese version so that the control key was "in the right place".  When I bought my first mechanical, a Filco TKL, the first thing I did was to switch the CAPS LOCK to CTRL via software.  So when I got a hhkb a few weeks ago, there was no need to change anything.  I need CTRL is a convenient position due to heavy use of UNIX/Linux/vim.   

After topre, I have no intention of buying any more MX boards except ergonomic ones.  One of those is the Kinesis Advantage LF.

So, my question is, is it possible to swap the CAPS LOCK for CTRL using the Kinesis firmware or do I need to attempt to do this through the OS?
⌨White Blank HHKB P2 ⌨Filco TKL SA MXRed
Interests: ⌨AcidFire's Board ⌨Kinesis Advantage LF

Offline uberben

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #279 on: Sat, 18 January 2014, 08:53:32 »
This can be done in the firmware. I have done the same. I had to map the right control for some reason, but that might have been to bypass a virtual machine hotkey. (I did the mapping a couple years ago and don't remember exactly why.)

Offline derekwtaylor

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #280 on: Fri, 21 February 2014, 12:41:25 »
FYI, I dropped by the Kinesis office today (turns out it is on my way to work, go figure!) and picked up the LF upgrade kit.

It was about $95 after tax.  They offered to throw in enough reds to replace the thumb switches as well!

Great service.

Offline kfmfe04

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #281 on: Sat, 22 February 2014, 00:14:51 »
VERY NICE!

The LF is one of two boards that I want post-hhkb - the other is AcidFire's Ergodox-like split board.  I expect those two to be my end-game MX boards, stopping my MX collection at 3 (the other is a Filco M2 TKL).

Beyond that, I'll probably only eye Topres.
⌨White Blank HHKB P2 ⌨Filco TKL SA MXRed
Interests: ⌨AcidFire's Board ⌨Kinesis Advantage LF

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #282 on: Wed, 26 February 2014, 19:21:14 »
Thank you CPTBadAss and Photoelectric for getting the article into a form that it can be fixed/updated/pictures loaded after the R00tworm incident of 2012. (it's split into 2 posts, Post #1 and Post #2).

I'll get photos in it first, then start bit by bit with the rest of the editing.

People come for the pics.

Just like porn.
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Offline CPTBadAss

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #283 on: Wed, 26 February 2014, 19:31:17 »
People come for the pics.

Just like porn.

I see what you did there.

And you're welcome. Now start fixing this young man or I will turn this thread around!
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Offline nacitar

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #284 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 16:14:17 »
FYI, I dropped by the Kinesis office today (turns out it is on my way to work, go figure!) and picked up the LF upgrade kit.

It was about $95 after tax.  They offered to throw in enough reds to replace the thumb switches as well!

Great service.


Couldn't this kit be used as a base PCB for making some sort of curved ergodox?

Offline uberben

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #285 on: Thu, 27 March 2014, 16:27:47 »
Couldn't this kit be used as a base PCB for making some sort of curved ergodox?

I've been thinking about doing this very thing. I'm already working on replacing the controller in my Kinesis and might make it such that I could build up a new one with just the key well kit and some other basic parts. I saw on DT a week or two ago someone that printed a curved keywell which would also be nice, but would not have the curved PCB.

Offline kaltar

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #286 on: Wed, 23 July 2014, 11:26:48 »
Couldn't this kit be used as a base PCB for making some sort of curved ergodox?

I've been thinking about doing this very thing. I'm already working on replacing the controller in my Kinesis and might make it such that I could build up a new one with just the key well kit and some other basic parts. I saw on DT a week or two ago someone that printed a curved keywell which would also be nice, but would not have the curved PCB.

The Kinesis comes wired with a matrix (the one that is in the PCB of the ergodox) it would be needed to remove the matrix and solder wires from each key into the PCB. The PCB could be flat on the case of the Kinesis, I do think it fits.

However, If you want it to be in any other place other than the kinesis case (like in ergodox style, hands separated) you would need to do the casing for the wells. That's the real work

Offline vvp

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #287 on: Wed, 23 July 2014, 16:31:06 »
I saw on DT a week or two ago someone that printed a curved keywell which would also be nice, but would not have the curved PCB.
Can you give a link? I plan to post to DT too since that is the place I first announced that I'll try to do it. If I'm very lucky I may have first fully working prototype (but not the final version) in about 2 months.
So far only the case is being done and electronics is only in schemes and on a breadboard. The matrix is hand wired too, the rest will have PCB.
These are the top two parts from the right side. They need to be glued together and also the bottom part needs to be printed. Then the full right case would be done.
72181-0

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #288 on: Wed, 23 July 2014, 23:36:41 »
If I'm very lucky I may have first fully working prototype (but not the final version) in about 2 months. So far only the case is being done and electronics is only in schemes and on a breadboard. The matrix is hand wired too, the rest will have PCB. These are the top two parts from the right side. They need to be glued together and also the bottom part needs to be printed. Then the full right case would be done.
Show Image
If youíre doing this with an arbitrary 3d-printed case and hand wiring it, you might as well copy the Maltron instead of the Kinesis Advantage. The Kinesis has an inferior design which is mainly necessary because theyíre using a curved PCB, which at scale is substantially cheaper than the Maltronís hand wiring.

In particular, Iím convinced the orientation of many (even most) keys on the Kinesis is quite suboptimal, based on the most natural movements human fingers make. If you take a look at the Maltron, the finger switches are at different heights vertically, but they are mostly oriented in approximately the same direction. Whereas in the Kinesis Advantage, the switches all sort of point inward toward the center of each hand. The result of this is that to press keys on the kinesis, you need to press outward as well as downward, which typically requires force from your whole hand, rather than from the main joint at the base of the finger which is the main joint used to depress any keyboard key.

edit: I think the Maltron number and function rows have a bit of the same problem, and would actually be better if they were positioned about the same as now but with their orientation adjusted to be more similar to that of the other keys. But of course itís worth testing a few designs directly against each other. You might find that you still like the way the Kinesis keys are laid out, even when your technology allows you more flexibility than theirs does.

Also, I think both Kinesis Advantage and Maltron could use a bit of stagger between columns.

[If you can, I recommend finding someone with a Maltron and borrowing it for a few days, or at least trying to type on it for a few minutes. Itíll be more obvious in person.]

Also, I recommend thinking carefully about what position and orientation is most comfortable for your thumb keys. I donít think you have that optimally figured out either.

(The Maltron isnít perfect, IMO, but itís pretty good.)
« Last Edit: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:18:43 by jacobolus »

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #289 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 00:09:00 »
Thanks Jacobolus, valuable insight. A careful direct comparison of Matron vs Kinesis is  valuable data.  I'm also of the belief that a 3D printed key well that is perhaps not the exact Kinesis key well may be a more optimum ergo solution.

So much has evolved in the time span of the last 3 years that I'm of the opinion a Maltron key well should be attempted via 3D printing. Also, perhaps a slight modification to the exact positioning, but I'm not astute as to what that should/could be, other than an adjustable thumb cluster.

After Keycon, I have the idea to re-engineer the Split Kinesis, and strip off the case...using key wells only.

Then, on to the ULTIMATE INPUT (DEVICE).

Stay tuned.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline vvp

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #290 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 06:52:29 »
I did not know there is difference like this (less angle stagger, more height stagger) between Maltron and Kinesis. It looks insignificant to me. Small differences in the angle of force vector to the switch axe should not matter (i.e. (1-cos(α)) is almost zero for small α). But if I ever get a chance to type on Maltron then I'll be able to really comment on it.
Reachability of the keys looks much more important.
This is the 6th version of the keywell and I'll stick with it at least till the first fully working prototype. Surprisingly, I especially like the thumb cluster. Much better than the kinesis' one in my opinion.

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #291 on: Thu, 24 July 2014, 07:52:28 »
Hoggy has comparison pics of Kinesis/Maltron that help show these differences. He has some notes/observations that are specific to the key well and thumb cluster differences.
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline kaltar

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #292 on: Tue, 29 July 2014, 07:58:51 »

Then, on to the ULTIMATE INPUT (DEVICE).

Stay tuned.

Do you accept credit cards?

Offline ryanc

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #293 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 19:33:39 »
Kinesis has sold people unpopulated PCBs before. I know there's at least one guy who's used them to build a cherry mx blue kinesis.

Offline ryanc

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #294 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 19:36:56 »
...also, I have a working kinesis with teensy based controller instead of the stock one...

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #295 on: Fri, 01 August 2014, 19:38:17 »
Can you elaborate on what you've done with the controller?
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
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Offline ryanc

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #296 on: Thu, 28 August 2014, 10:50:42 »
http://michael.stapelberg.de/Artikel/kinesis_custom_controller

I am actually the one who bought out his spare PCBs.



Things of note:

* Ribbon cables to thumb clusters have been made detachable

* Some of the extra GPIOs are brought out via a cable to be connected to a trackpoint (firmware already shows up as a composite keyboard/mouse) and foot pedals.

* Button is to reset the microcontroller

* It has blue LEDs

* It does currently work as a keyboard

Offline Input Nirvana

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #297 on: Thu, 28 August 2014, 10:58:07 »
Fantastic work, thanks for posting link! Excellent Kinesis upgrade, nicely documented.

This is a great option, I need to look at more carefully.

Any chance this can come to Kiibohd meeting this weekend? :)
Kinesis Advantage cut into 2 halves | RollerMouse Free 2 | Apple Magic Trackpad | Alphagrip | Colemak | on Mac+Hackintosh
Evil Screaming Flying Door Monkeys From Hell                     Proudly GeekWhacking since 2009
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Offline ryanc

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #298 on: Thu, 28 August 2014, 11:22:28 »
BTW, I just posted this to see if anyone is interested in working on a more refined replacement controller. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62246.0

Offline swaziloo

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Re: Kinesis Advantage - Everything you want to know but are afraid to ask!
« Reply #299 on: Sat, 18 July 2015, 16:43:11 »
I realize I'm resurrecting an old thread here, but it's the best place I could find.

I'm a hair away from pulling the trigger on the replacement controller boards from OSH Park to upgrade an old PS2 Kinesis Classic QD (KB133PC/QD.) My main goals are to make the Kinesis connect via USB (I tried the adapter route, and it sucks) and convert to an external USB connector. I have some experience building and programming my ErgoDox and Atreus keyboards, and though I'm not a pro, I'm not averse to the challenge (or risk.)

My questions for you guys with more experience than I:
  • My keyboard halves connect "directly" to the controller board, like The Humble Hacker's. At a glance, the connector placement on the controller is the same as for the ribbon-connected halves (ala Stapelberg's.) Am I right in thinking that Kinesis used the same connector locations on both those boards, and therefore the Stapelberg/OSH Park board will work?
  • Is it reasonable to plan and de-solder and reuse my connectors? If not, from where might I find new ones?
  • There's the other approach of building a replacement CPU (like one based on this board at OSH Park) that seemingly eliminates the need to replace the whole controller board. I found some discussion here at GH, but I haven't located a "simple" how-to. This would certainly be taxing my soldering skills, but is it a far better option?
  • If I wind up wanting to sell the extra board(s), is there still interest out there in this mod?