From CM NovaTouch to RealForce 45/55/var

[cnhansen]

Hello fellow keyboard enthusiasts, I'm looking for some advice from those of you that have used the CM NovaTouch as well as the RealForce.

From my own research, it appears the 55g might be the way to go, but honestly I have no idea, some people swear to 45g or variable as well.

I currently live in Denmark, so I have some logistical problems when it comes to buying proper keyboards, so my prices including freight, customs etc. are:

RealForce 87U 45g/55g - $352
RealForce 87U variable - $292

So I can save $60 (and get faster delivery) if I decide on the variable, but how does these keyboards compare to the NovaTouch?

Honestly I really like the NovaTouch, but I've decided to go ANSI instead of my current ISO, and I've heard such great things about the RealForce.

Thanks for reading.

Best regards,
Keyboard Pleb

[bocahgundul]

So you decided to go with realforce


what about HHKB?

[cnhansen]

So you decided to go with realforce


what about HHKB?

I've definitely considered it, but I'm worried that the 60% style is just not for me. I just F1-F12 keys a lot (arrows too) so I think it will be annoying with the fn modifier.

As a sidenote, I'm a software developer. I do use VIM, however I'm forced to work in a lot of windows apps where I cannot get VIM emulation plugins.

[bocahgundul]

So you decided to go with realforce


what about HHKB?

I've definitely considered it, but I'm worried that the 60% style is just not for me. I just F1-F12 keys a lot (arrows too) so I think it will be annoying with the fn modifier.

As a sidenote, I'm a software developer. I do use VIM, however I'm forced to work in a lot of windows apps where I cannot get VIM emulation plugins.

Well the f1-f12 keys are not that annoying as everyone think


do try hhkb

[rowdy]

The seal has a point - you can get used to the function layer.

However such is not necessarily perfect for everyone.

The variable is great for typing, but horrible for everything else, such as gaming.  If you touch type properly, then do consider the variable as people say it is fantastic.

Otherwise if you have reasonably strong fingers, the 55g uniform shouldn't be a problem.  Some people, however, do report fatigue with the 55g, and say that they prefer 45g.

The HHKB is only available in 45g, however some people have modded theirs to 55g, sacrificing a RealForce in the process.

[bocahgundul]

Yes if u can use all your fingers for typing you should consider variable ones cause they're not going to hurt your fingers


and 55g sux anyway 


and don't you ever mod your hhkb into 55g cause they feel like a mushy rubber dome hahah

[cnhansen]

The variable is great for typing, but horrible for everything else, such as gaming.  If you touch type properly, then do consider the variable as people say it is fantastic.

I will only do programming and typing (it will be left at work most the time). The thing is I want to be good at touch typing, but I'm not yet.

[rowdy]

The variable is great for typing, but horrible for everything else, such as gaming.  If you touch type properly, then do consider the variable as people say it is fantastic.

I will only do programming and typing (it will be left at work most the time). The thing is I want to be good at touch typing, but I'm not yet.

Then you might find a variable weight keyboard awkward to use, as the outside keys are, what, 35g?  Which is way lighter than the 55g of the home row.

[Slipych]

You should look in import from japan through tenso from amazon or rakuten.

[rowdy]

You should look in import from japan through tenso from amazon or rakuten.

Welcome to Geekhack!

That's another option, yes!  Or even better if you know someone who is travelling to Japan soon.

HHKB is not heavy, and can slip into luggage easily.

[Polymer]

The variable is great for typing, but horrible for everything else, such as gaming.  If you touch type properly, then do consider the variable as people say it is fantastic.

I will only do programming and typing (it will be left at work most the time). The thing is I want to be good at touch typing, but I'm not yet.

If you don't type with "proper" form you'll probably hate the variable because the whole concept is worthless if you're using your index fingers for keys that are both heavier and lighter...Definitely do not get it if you're not doing that.

Even for people with "proper" form, they often just dislike how variable is because it feels weird...

But for those that get used to it, it is just so much easier on your hands....I love using my HHKB for the feel/sound but the RF has become my main just because it is so much easier on the hands..

[cnhansen]

If you don't type with "proper" form you'll probably hate the variable because the whole concept is worthless if you're using your index fingers for keys that are both heavier and lighter...Definitely do not get it if you're not doing that.

Even for people with "proper" form, they often just dislike how variable is because it feels weird...

But for those that get used to it, it is just so much easier on your hands....I love using my HHKB for the feel/sound but the RF has become my main just because it is so much easier on the hands..

Thanks for your reply, I'm leaning away from the variable now.

Actually I'm considering placing a large order for multiple keyboards, as it will save me in shipping long term (assuming I order more later, which I probably will).

So far I'm 90% sure I'll order the following:

RealForce 87U 55g white/gray
HHKB2 Pro white/gray
HHKB palm rest
HHKB case

Now since I'm already on a roll, I thought about the KUL ES-87 with MX clears. I saw some good reviews, do you guys have any thoughts on this?

Basically it's really cheap ($120 cheaper than HHKB/RF after customs/taxes).

Right now my only cherry board is a ****ty Roccat Ryos MK with black switches (it's awful).

PS: Thanks Seal and Rowdy for making me double my order! ;-)

[LiquidEvilGaming]

Yes if u can use all your fingers for typing you should consider variable ones cause they're not going to hurt your fingers


and 55g sux anyway 


and don't you ever mod your hhkb into 55g cause they feel like a mushy rubber dome hahah

While i did like the sound and feel of the 55G RF after extended use i found the 45G case mounting in the HHKB infinitely more comfortable and the layout super intuitive.  Something about the case mounting in the HHKB feels much better than the plate mounting of 45G on the Realforce or Novatouch boards.  I actually ended up selling my 55G RF and bought a second HHKB.

[bocahgundul]

@cnhansen
Yea nice of you to get HHKB.

I have no comment for kul es87 cause I've never tried em. There are many users that liked es87 so u should try em too and if u don't like it u can sell it here easily

[cryptokey]

I'm personally very happy with my variable weighted RF.  Many people say they prefer the 55g over variable when they haven't even tried variable.  At the end of the day, it's all personal preference so you have  to go with what feels best for you.  If you already own a mech board and are happy with its weighting, then try choosing your topre weighting to be similar.  I came from browns and enjoy the RF variable since it's similar.  But honestly, it's such a nice board, I'm sure whatever weighting you get, you'll enjoy it.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

If you don't type with "proper" form you'll probably hate the variable because the whole concept is worthless if you're using your index fingers for keys that are both heavier and lighter...Definitely do not get it if you're not doing that.

Even for people with "proper" form, they often just dislike how variable is because it feels weird...

But for those that get used to it, it is just so much easier on your hands....I love using my HHKB for the feel/sound but the RF has become my main just because it is so much easier on the hands..

Thanks for your reply, I'm leaning away from the variable now.

Actually I'm considering placing a large order for multiple keyboards, as it will save me in shipping long term (assuming I order more later, which I probably will).

So far I'm 90% sure I'll order the following:

RealForce 87U 55g white/gray
HHKB2 Pro white/gray
HHKB palm rest
HHKB case

Now since I'm already on a roll, I thought about the KUL ES-87 with MX clears. I saw some good reviews, do you guys have any thoughts on this?

Basically it's really cheap ($120 cheaper than HHKB/RF after customs/taxes).

Right now my only cherry board is a ****ty Roccat Ryos MK with black switches (it's awful).

PS: Thanks Seal and Rowdy for making me double my order! ;-)

KUL 87 ES is my favorite Cherry TKL on the market as far as non customs go, I have had 4 (one MX Green two MX browns one MX blue, sold two still own two)  See my review here

Of course it's subjective but of all the Cherry MX boards i am selling since i switched to Topre i am keeping two of the KUL boards for a reason...love the things.

[Polymer]

I'm personally very happy with my variable weighted RF.

I think it is great too..but if you're not using proper or somewhat proper form, it doesn't work quite right and wouldn't make sense.  The whole idea is to make it easier for your weaker fingers to press and that only works if you're actually using them.

I switch back and forth with my other Topre boards but the variable has been my main for awhile...it just makes sense to use.  But that said, it has the least enjoyable feel and sound out of all of the boards....but the goodness to my hands outweighs the better sound and overall feel of say, the HHKB...I'm willing to sacrifice some of the thock for that ease on my fingers....I think eventually my HHKB will be just my travel board..

[1391406]

I'm personally very happy with my variable weighted RF.

I think it is great too..but if you're not using proper or somewhat proper form, it doesn't work quite right and wouldn't make sense.  The whole idea is to make it easier for your weaker fingers to press and that only works if you're actually using them.

I don't use proper form, I'm not a touch typist, and I love the variable weighting. I've heard people repeatedly talk about the difference in weighting between the inside and outside alphanumeric keys, but in actual use the differences are so subtle that I don't notice and honestly can't tell the difference, and frankly I'm not sure how many people actually can or do unless they're slowly pressing keys and paying close attention. I have all three weightings (variable, 45g, and 55g) at my disposal and prefer variable... even for gaming.

[Polymer]

I'm personally very happy with my variable weighted RF.

I think it is great too..but if you're not using proper or somewhat proper form, it doesn't work quite right and wouldn't make sense.  The whole idea is to make it easier for your weaker fingers to press and that only works if you're actually using them.

I don't use proper form, I'm not a touch typist, and I love the variable weighting. I've heard people repeatedly talk about the difference in weighting between the inside and outside alphanumeric keys, but in actual use the differences are so subtle that I don't notice and honestly can't tell the difference, and frankly I'm not sure how many people actually can or do unless they're slowly pressing keys and paying close attention. I have all three weightings (variable, 45g, and 55g) at my disposal and prefer variable... even for gaming.

Really??  So it doesn't throw you off when pressing 45g keys and then the 30g key with the same finger?  Even without pressing slowly they're noticeably lighter...the 30g keys have very little tactility to them at all...

[breaker9691]

with my opnion HHKB can fit with anyone who love to type on, the layout is great and you still got full functional, and i've used them both, NovaTouch and the HHKB Professional 2
here the youtube link :

version 2 :

with realforce i never used it before but seems people love it more than nova, but nova can change cherryMX keycaps, that good for you but with typing feeling i think you should choose Realforce, that good enough and with really classic design

[rowdy]

If you don't type with "proper" form you'll probably hate the variable because the whole concept is worthless if you're using your index fingers for keys that are both heavier and lighter...Definitely do not get it if you're not doing that.

Even for people with "proper" form, they often just dislike how variable is because it feels weird...

But for those that get used to it, it is just so much easier on your hands....I love using my HHKB for the feel/sound but the RF has become my main just because it is so much easier on the hands..

Thanks for your reply, I'm leaning away from the variable now.

Actually I'm considering placing a large order for multiple keyboards, as it will save me in shipping long term (assuming I order more later, which I probably will).

So far I'm 90% sure I'll order the following:

RealForce 87U 55g white/gray
HHKB2 Pro white/gray
HHKB palm rest
HHKB case

Now since I'm already on a roll, I thought about the KUL ES-87 with MX clears. I saw some good reviews, do you guys have any thoughts on this?

Basically it's really cheap ($120 cheaper than HHKB/RF after customs/taxes).

Right now my only cherry board is a ****ty Roccat Ryos MK with black switches (it's awful).

PS: Thanks Seal and Rowdy for making me double my order! ;-)

The GH mantra is "why not both" - you will fit in well around here )

[cnhansen]

Thanks for all your replies!

I just found out today that a colleague of mine is going to Japan in a year, so I had him promise me to get me a HHKB2 while he's there. So I decided to go with the RF 55g and the KUL ES-87 with clears. I am now waiting very impatiently!

Btw, I considered ordering a keycap set from WASD with Vim layout, because it's really awesome. But I'm worried about the keycap quality, is the difference from WASD ABS to say Ducky PBT sets really all that different?

[LiquidEvilGaming]

Thanks for all your replies!

I just found out today that a colleague of mine is going to Japan in a year, so I had him promise me to get me a HHKB2 while he's there. So I decided to go with the RF 55g and the KUL ES-87 with clears. I am now waiting very impatiently!

Btw, I considered ordering a keycap set from WASD with Vim layout, because it's really awesome. But I'm worried about the keycap quality, is the difference from WASD ABS to say Ducky PBT sets really all that different?

ABS to PBT in general is quite different, but thick ducky PBT is worlds above that of WASD ABS IMO.  Both in texture sound and overall typing feeling really.

[rowdy]

Thanks for all your replies!

I just found out today that a colleague of mine is going to Japan in a year, so I had him promise me to get me a HHKB2 while he's there. So I decided to go with the RF 55g and the KUL ES-87 with clears. I am now waiting very impatiently!

Btw, I considered ordering a keycap set from WASD with Vim layout, because it's really awesome. But I'm worried about the keycap quality, is the difference from WASD ABS to say Ducky PBT sets really all that different?

ABS to PBT in general is quite different, but thick ducky PBT is worlds above that of WASD ABS IMO.  Both in texture sound and overall typing feeling really.

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