Author Topic: Vintage Black: Finally got to check them out  (Read 12210 times)

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Offline Mattr567

  • Posts: 840
  • Location: SoCal
Re: Vintage Black: Finally got to check them out
« Reply #50 on: Sat, 16 April 2016, 23:13:54 »
[Alps switch] Return rate too slow
Is this a problem for you when typing, or only for some kind of performance video-game context? Which Alps switches specifically are you talking about?

By “return rate”, do you mean they’re not stiff enough for you, or the switch actuation point is too high in the stroke?

If you think the spring is too soft, you could always try putting a stiffer spring in, e.g. using the springs from black Alps switches in your green Alps switches, or the springs from Matias clicky switches in your Matias linears.

If the issue is the actuation point, then that’s probably mostly down to practice and what you’re used to. The key will return plenty fast if you’re not holding it down.

If your typing speed is getting slowed down, there’s something funky going on. Plenty of people can type 100+ wpm with clicky Alps switches.

all alps switch.
yeah it's because the actuation point on top that makes me always bottom out and it feels that the return rate is so slow I even prefer my ****ty rubber dome
but yeah the feel of alps switch is 2x times better than cherry

Hmm, what is your experience with Alps, have you tried cleaned ones? When I cleaned all my SKCM Whites in my FK-3001 it made a huge difference in the return rate. It was almost as if the dust was dampening it lol. Now they pop nicely :) I'm thinking a more tactile switch like SKCM White would do ya good.

[Alps switch] Return rate too slow
Is this a problem for you when typing, or only for some kind of performance video-game context? Which Alps switches specifically are you talking about?

By “return rate”, do you mean they’re not stiff enough for you, or the switch actuation point is too high in the stroke, or something else?

If you think the spring is too soft, you could always try putting a stiffer spring in, e.g. using the springs from black Alps switches in your green Alps switches, or the springs from Matias clicky switches in your Matias linears.

If the issue is the actuation point, then that’s probably mostly down to practice and what you’re used to. The key will return plenty fast if you’re not holding it down.

If your typing speed is getting slowed down dramatically, there’s something funky going on. Plenty of people can type 100+ wpm with various types of Alps switches.

Some old Alps switches in bad condition have some dust/grit inside the switch, and can stick on the upstroke. This is not a built-in feature, but a result of storage on some dusty shelf without a box for 20 years.

My only issue with Alps boards is the spacebar. A faster return rate would do nicely there, or at least some more stabilization.  Most spacebars only have one of these on one side: http://i.imgur.com/NFmrBYL.jpg and as a result they feel slow and take a while to return, slowing my typing speed.

If the spacebar is sticking, then there might be some gunk holding the stabilizer back. A lot of these peg stabilizers were lubricated at the factory, and 20+ years later the lubricant gets a bit tacky. Other times, the plastic of the stabilizer peg has been abraded a bit, and has a rough surface which catches. If you clean the stabilizers (peg, peg holder, and optionally the wire and wire clips) and then re-lubricate them, it can help smooth things out.

Some Alps keyboards have a spacebar switch with an extra-stiff spring, an external coil spring around the stabilizer peg, or even a second dummy keyswitch to return the spacebar. If your spacebar isn’t returning even after you clean and lubricate the stabilizers, you could try to find such an external coil spring to add.

My personal opinion is that any spacebar longer than 5 units is an absurdity, and all the work to stabilize ridiculous 7+ unit wide spacebars is a huge waste. Standardish-layout keyboards would be a lot better if they used split 2.5x1.5 unit spacebars instead, with keycaps shaped like the ones on the Matias ErgoPro.

Will look at that! Thanks. It is really a minor complaint. Alps :-* That board is still great. SKCM Orange swapped SGI Granite, all because I can't stand the dimples being on the D/K keys on the AEK/II :p

Sadly for your sake a lot of Alps boards have 5+ U spacebars. Personally 7 is the limit. Any longer and it is just ridiculous. The NeXt non-adb is a great example. Great caps and cool factory non-damp SKCM Cream but that spacebar :eek: I don't know how stabilization will cope with that length. Of course there are worse offenders but that is what pops into my mind.
Wang 725-3770 SKCM Brown, 1995
Zenith 163-73 - SKCM Blue, 1990
KBP V60 MTS - SKCM Amber w/ Canon HiPros
IBM P77, SKCC Green, 1984
IBM P70 - Alps Plate Spring, 1989
Compaq MX 11800, MX Black, 1997

Offline les_garten

  • Posts: 47
Re: Vintage Black: Finally got to check them out
« Reply #51 on: Sat, 04 June 2016, 22:45:24 »
This looks like a good place to ask this question.

I have a basically new Wyse PCE console keyboard with Blacks in it.

I bought it new in the late 90's.  There have been maybe 500-1000 total keystrokes on it, if that many.

I used it to crack into Cisco and Livingston routers that the Telnet password had been lost on.  That's it, and to just be hooked to a console.  The switches are like new as are the doubleshot keypads.  The keypads are a little discolored from some UV exposure.  The keyboard is mint.  No scratches, stains, etc.  Pulled a few keys and clean as a Hounds tooth under them.

Just has not been used and I am the original owner.

How much would it be valued for in cash or trade you gurus of Keyboard switches?

I'm trying to come up with some mech keyboards and I don't build.

The idea of all that soldering makes me crazy to think about it.  I also think I am a Brown kind of guy.  Although this feels pretty good.


Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3670
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: Vintage Black: Finally got to check them out
« Reply #52 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 03:00:00 »
Who knows. For a late-90s WYSE board, I’m going to guess <$50, but it’s hard to say.

Offline bocahgundul

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Re: Vintage Black: Finally got to check them out
« Reply #53 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 03:09:05 »
lets get over it. Cherry is dead and the next big thing is gateron

Let's face it.  Cherry and Gateron are dead and the next big thing is alps
alps is for like people who type with 2 fingers cause they **** my typing speed

Nah Alps is fine bro, just need to get used to the switch. I can do 145WPM if i try.
Show Image

soooo 3 fingers?  :)) :)) :)) :)) :))

jk jk its just I don't like alps  :p

Offline les_garten

  • Posts: 47
Re: Vintage Black: Finally got to check them out
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 03:49:36 »
Who knows. For a late-90s WYSE board, I’m going to guess <$50, but it’s hard to say.

Thanx!

Offline Prelim

  • Posts: 651
  • Location: Portugal
Re: Vintage Black: Finally got to check them out
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 05 June 2016, 04:41:26 »
... I also have some switches from 89 which are all very smooth, but small-logo just like modern ones. This coupled with people getting small-logo ones on their vintage boards makes me suspect the large/small logo answer isn't a particularly good one Oo .

x2, I can confirm this on my boards as well (either w/ NIB or used switches). Big/Small logo doesn't mean sh1t guys!
2x GH60 revC - lubed Linjärs 65g / lubed H1s 65g with SPRIT 5mm acrylic plate | Dolch PAC - Cherry housing / Gateron sliders 65g and QMK clips | Raptor K1 G80-1890 stock 
Floating on Cherry/GMK caps

Offline HeeCh2ei

  • Posts: 74
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Re: Vintage Black: Finally got to check them out
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 05 August 2016, 12:45:30 »
I have a bunch of switches out of the WYSE PCE 840362-01 which is made of 09.11.1994.
Is there any chance that the switches are the vintage black? They are all have a small logo and brownish grease on the stem legs.

Switches are unaccessible at the moment, so I'm asking here.
Also they were highly contaminated with a lime or a chalk dust and currently the bottoms of they are taking another week of isopropanol bath.
« Last Edit: Fri, 05 August 2016, 12:55:09 by HeeCh2ei »
Cherry is the Maker, Topre is the God
   
FC660C             FC750R (reds)     FC750R (blues)

Offline evilpacket

  • Posts: 36
Re: Vintage Black: Finally got to check them out
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 05 August 2016, 21:22:27 »
Well, idk if people knew but I heard that cherry mx changed some of their manufacturing processes that used to make smoother switches due to some pollution issues. That caused them to come up with the manufacturing process they have right now, leading to the scratchier switches we have today. I got 90 switches taken off from a HCC a few days ago for 20 bucks from a dude on a forum. can't wait to lube them and try 'em out.

My teacher has been doing keyboards for a long time and I got a chance to type a few of his boards. One of his main boards was a 356 mini with a set of vintage mx blacks taken from a nib g80-1000. the blacks on it had lighter springs and was lubed, and it was a typegasmic experience.
He pointed out that when getting vintage mx blacks the condition of the switches plays a big role in getting that typing feel. I got some decent switches for a decent price so I'll see how things go. I might also cop a nib wyse for 50 bucks if I like the switches from the HCC

Offline alienman82

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Re: Vintage Black: Finally got to check them out
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 05 August 2016, 22:08:42 »
removed.
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 March 2018, 14:24:26 by alienman82 »

Offline evilpacket

  • Posts: 36
Re: Vintage Black: Finally got to check them out
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 10 February 2017, 09:19:27 »
Well, idk if people knew but I heard that cherry mx changed some of their manufacturing processes that used to make smoother switches due to some pollution issues. That caused them to come up with the manufacturing process they have right now, leading to the scratchier switches we have today. I got 90 switches taken off from a HCC a few days ago for 20 bucks from a dude on a forum. can't wait to lube them and try 'em out.

My teacher has been doing keyboards for a long time and I got a chance to type a few of his boards. One of his main boards was a 356 mini with a set of vintage mx blacks taken from a nib g80-1000. the blacks on it had lighter springs and was lubed, and it was a typegasmic experience.
He pointed out that when getting vintage mx blacks the condition of the switches plays a big role in getting that typing feel. I got some decent switches for a decent price so I'll see how things go. I might also cop a nib wyse for 50 bucks if I like the switches from the HCC

knowing somone in real life with an OTD?!??? That is really cool.. I only met one person who was into keyboards, but he was stuck in the zealios DCS circle jerk.

Yeah, he has a few unassembled kits and numerous assembled OTD-era boards because he's been a part of that community for a long time.
It's been a few months since I checked gh again and during that time I copped another keyboard from my teacher, and it also has good quality vintage mx blacks in it