Any programmers on geekhack? What language(s) do you use?

[mteinum]

The author posted a 50% off code on twitter  AUTHD



http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920024149.do

[the_marsbar]

Why not place the keyboard on top of the Mac's keyboard? It works great IMO (and you don't have to bring your trackpad).

[mteinum]

Why not place the keyboard on top of the Mac's keyboard? It works great IMO (and you don't have to bring your trackpad).

Hmmm... I will try that out.

[mteinum]

Mac upgraded 


Electrostatic Capacitive System by Morten Teinum, on Flickr

Just need a really short USB cable (or the BT edition)

[iLLucionist]

What language(s) do you use? Why?

Erlang, because there's a ****ton of legacy code. And we know it.

Cool so Erlang actually IS used in real situations for real projects.

What are you even talking about? Is it hard to find the actual Erlang users through a simple web search?

Perhaps I'm misinformed then. I thought erlang was more of a niche language. I've never really used it myself, except for toying around a bit.

Ever heard of that thing called WhatsApp?

So WhatsApp is written in erlang... wow.

Found it: "In using Erlang, WhatsApp is part of a larger push towards programming languages that are designed for concurrency, where many processes run at the same time."

Source: http://www.wired.com/2015/09/whatsapp-serves-900-million-users-50-engineers/

[iLLucionist]

Found the PEP 8 link: https://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2016-April/144205.html

That's a nice change though "Knuth said it" is a bit... weird. Even if it is a god in the python community.

[AceRuckus]

Java, C/C++, machine, bash

[iLLucionist]

Java, C/C++, machine, bash

I should try Java again sometime. But last time I checked it has grown out of hand with the programming constructs added to it that my head exploded.

[rowdy]

Java, C/C++, machine, bash

I should try Java again sometime. But last time I checked it has grown out of hand with the programming constructs added to it that my head exploded.

The amount of boilerplate you need in Java to do simple things is a bit silly sometimes.

[algernon]

Java, C/C++, machine, bash

I should try Java again sometime. But last time I checked it has grown out of hand with the programming constructs added to it that my head exploded.

The amount of boilerplate you need in Java to do simple things is a bit silly sometimes.

That's why you use the JVM, but avoid java itself: all the benefits, none of the silliness!

[iri]

Yes, you can use Scala or Clojure and be one step closer to suicide.

[AceRuckus]

Java, C/C++, machine, bash

I should try Java again sometime. But last time I checked it has grown out of hand with the programming constructs added to it that my head exploded.

The amount of boilerplate you need in Java to do simple things is a bit silly sometimes.

That's why you use the JVM, but avoid java itself: all the benefits, none of the silliness!

It's probably one of the more interesting languages I know. Compared to scripting, it's a headache. Too many libraries lol

[rowdy]

Java, C/C++, machine, bash

I should try Java again sometime. But last time I checked it has grown out of hand with the programming constructs added to it that my head exploded.

The amount of boilerplate you need in Java to do simple things is a bit silly sometimes.

That's why you use the JVM, but avoid java itself: all the benefits, none of the silliness!

You mean with something like Jython?

[algernon]

Java, C/C++, machine, bash

I should try Java again sometime. But last time I checked it has grown out of hand with the programming constructs added to it that my head exploded.

The amount of boilerplate you need in Java to do simple things is a bit silly sometimes.

That's why you use the JVM, but avoid java itself: all the benefits, none of the silliness!

You mean with something like Jython?

Yep, or Scala, Clojure, or any of the other JVM languages.

[thefebruaryman]

I do quite a some programming at work. Mostly with python for data work with pandas. I use pycharm and vim. And have a hate for visual fox pro!!!!

[iri]

I do quite a some programming at work. Mostly with python for data work with pandas. I use pycharm and vim. And have a hate for visual fox pro!!!!

Did you mean that you use PyCharm with IdeaVIM?

[chuckdee]

I do quite a some programming at work. Mostly with python for data work with pandas. I use pycharm and vim. And have a hate for visual fox pro!!!!

Have you used VS with python extensions?  That's what I'm using now, and wanted to compare/contrast the two.

[Brammm87]

I used to do mostly PHP at work, but our tech lead doesn't like it very much and tried to make us all switch to Dart. Worked with it for 3 days with a coworker, went back to PHP. Writing Dart feels like writing PHP 4...

[iri]

I had to give up alcohol because of the health issues, so the new substance to **** up my brain is Frege, which is a Haskell dialect on the JVM.

https://github.com/Frege/frege

[thefebruaryman]

I do quite a some programming at work. Mostly with python for data work with pandas. I use pycharm and vim. And have a hate for visual fox pro!!!!

Did you mean that you use PyCharm with IdeaVIM?

nah. Never got round to putting the key bindings on pycharm. I use vim for some editing after I have coded and when working on servers.

[iLLucionist]

Java, C/C++, machine, bash

I should try Java again sometime. But last time I checked it has grown out of hand with the programming constructs added to it that my head exploded.

The amount of boilerplate you need in Java to do simple things is a bit silly sometimes.

That's why you use the JVM, but avoid java itself: all the benefits, none of the silliness!

That's a good point actually. Never thought of it that way.

[iLLucionist]

Yes, you can use Scala or Clojure and be one step closer to suicide.

Why suicide? Issues with the implementation of those languages on top of JVM or something? Or linking java libraries?

[iLLucionist]

I used to do mostly PHP at work, but our tech lead doesn't like it very much and tried to make us all switch to Dart. Worked with it for 3 days with a coworker, went back to PHP. Writing Dart feels like writing PHP 4...

Going to python/ruby/node.js I can see, but from PHP to Dart? Is like going from PHP back to perl hahaha. Also that I have to use JS on the front-end is bad enough. I don't see why some people are trying so hard to bring JS over to the back-end / server part. Fine, concurrency (is that truly the case with node?), but for the rest. I really hate javascript, even after having internalized "Javascript The Good Parts".

[Peripheral Prophet]

Not a programmer, but am definitely starting to get my feet wet I suppose... Learning HTML, CSS, and JS, and there is still a ton of questions Im looking for answers for..

Id like to do something in webdev some day, but I was told to get my bearings on those 3 first to get a better understanding

[pr0ximity]

Not a programmer, but am definitely starting to get my feet wet I suppose... Learning HTML, CSS, and JS, and there is still a ton of questions Im looking for answers for..

Id like to do something in webdev some day, but I was told to get my bearings on those 3 first to get a better understanding

 Learning HTML, CSS, and JS is just fine, but personally I think they can give you a very skewed view of what "web development" entails (depending on how you define it, it's a fairly broad field). I would say try to keep in mind that while client-side apps are getting bigger and bigger, there is still a lot going on server-side, and there are much cleaner languages than JS for engineering server-side systems. I think JS can be a tough language to start with when compared to something like Python, and the Python community's pragmatism is better documented than the cluster**** of a JS community (no offense, I love the JS community's rapid iteration).

I'd recommemd keep doing what you're doing, but definitely experiment outside of front-end client-side stuff, it's a wacky world that's not super friendly to newcomers and I think partially explains why the self-taught front-end-focused engineers I've met have shaky fundamentals. I am of course generalizing a bit, but programming fundamentals are very translatable between languages.

[UsualSuspectXXX]

pr0ximity makes a few very good points.

Putting a focus on learning the fundamentals will help you greatly when moving between languages or picking up a few more. All languages have their own syntax qwerks but the fundamentals are anyways the same.

Javascript is very broad in and of itself. There's pure js, jQuery, AngularJS, NodeJS, and a ton more. They all carry their own benefits, drawbacks, and syntax changes. You can use JS as server side code, but there are better things for that.

Lastly, I use JS routinely at work but because it is so vast (and hacky), I think it would prove difficult to really learn the fundamentals with it.

[Peripheral Prophet]

Not a programmer, but am definitely starting to get my feet wet I suppose... Learning HTML, CSS, and JS, and there is still a ton of questions Im looking for answers for..

Id like to do something in webdev some day, but I was told to get my bearings on those 3 first to get a better understanding

 Learning HTML, CSS, and JS is just fine, but personally I think they can give you a very skewed view of what "web development" entails (depending on how you define it, it's a fairly broad field). I would say try to keep in mind that while client-side apps are getting bigger and bigger, there is still a lot going on server-side, and there are much cleaner languages than JS for engineering server-side systems. I think JS can be a tough language to start with when compared to something like Python, and the Python community's pragmatism is better documented than the cluster**** of a JS community (no offense, I love the JS community's rapid iteration).

I'd recommemd keep doing what you're doing, but definitely experiment outside of front-end client-side stuff, it's a wacky world that's not super friendly to newcomers and I think partially explains why the self-taught front-end-focused engineers I've met have shaky fundamentals. I am of course generalizing a bit, but programming fundamentals are very translatable between languages.

pr0ximity makes a few very good points.

Putting a focus on learning the fundamentals will help you greatly when moving between languages or picking up a few more. All languages have their own syntax qwerks but the fundamentals are anyways the same.

Javascript is very broad in and of itself. There's pure js, jQuery, AngularJS, NodeJS, and a ton more. They all carry their own benefits, drawbacks, and syntax changes. You can use JS as server side code, but there are better things for that.

Lastly, I use JS routinely at work but because it is so vast (and hacky), I think it would prove difficult to really learn the fundamentals with it.

Thank you both for your advice and insights, definitely taking it to heart..

[needslipo]

I program in bash, python, java, scala and hql (if that can even be considered a language). I'm a hadoop dev. For software I use IntelliJ, Sublime Text 3 and iTerm.

[Brammm87]

I program in bash, python, java, scala and hql (if that can even be considered a language). I'm a hadoop dev. For software I use IntelliJ, Sublime Text 3 and iTerm.

Heh... we could use you. Our hadoop is a mess.

[MajorKoos]

Throwing my hat in the ring because why not.

At work it's all C++, C# and PowerShell.
 - DevOps, IoT and public/private cloud type stuff are the flavor of the day.
 - Also write a ton of code for ILM/FIM.
Not a fan of VB, but can as the need arises.
Used to do ASM, Modula 2 and Basic back before the rinderpest.

Tools of choice are Visual Studio and Visual Studio Code.
Also a big fan of ReSharper.

[Hypersphere]

I am not a programmer, but I do a bit of programming with the following:

Matlab

Python

R

Yanaconda (in YASARA)

[MajorKoos]

I am not a programmer, but I do a bit of programming with the following:

Matlab

Python

R

Yanaconda (in YASARA)

Lots of interest in R and ML now days.

[iri]

I am not a programmer, but I do a bit of programming with the following:

Matlab

Python

R

Yanaconda (in YASARA)

Lots of interest in R and ML now days.

There's barely any interest in ML these days unless you abbreviate Matlab to ML.

[MajorKoos]

I am not a programmer, but I do a bit of programming with the following:

Matlab

Python

R

Yanaconda (in YASARA)

Lots of interest in R and ML now days.

There's barely any interest in ML these days unless you abbreviate Matlab to ML.

Barely any interest in machine learning?
...

[rowdy]

I am not a programmer, but I do a bit of programming with the following:

Matlab

Python

R

Yanaconda (in YASARA)

Lots of interest in R and ML now days.

There's barely any interest in ML these days unless you abbreviate Matlab to ML.

Barely any interest in machine learning?
...

This thread is more about the languages you know, rather than the use to which you put those languages.

[MajorKoos]

I am not a programmer, but I do a bit of programming with the following:

Matlab

Python

R

Yanaconda (in YASARA)

Lots of interest in R and ML now days.

There's barely any interest in ML these days unless you abbreviate Matlab to ML.

Barely any interest in machine learning?
...

This thread is more about the languages you know, rather than the use to which you put those languages.

It's what one does with that code that gives the conversation context, builds one's personal brand and puts food on the table. 
A "non-programmer who does a bit of R, python, Matlab and Yanaconda" whiffs of big data to me. 
Context matters.

[iri]

Yeah, context matters. When you speak about languages, ML is this.

[kolec94]

C# and visual basic mostly
working on c, c++, and arduino

[MajorKoos]

Yeah, context matters. When you speak about languages, ML is this.

Lol - very cool.
Good schwartz!

[kolec94]

any advice on the best way to learn python quickly?

[iri]

any advice on the best way to learn python quickly?

http://www.learnpython.org/
https://docs.python.org/2/tutorial/

[cheebs]

Yet another programmer here.

I use Ruby, C, C++ and recently a bit of Elixir.  Ruby because, well, I think it needs no introduction or explanation.  C for language extensions and other obvious applications, including system programming.  C++ for game programming.  Elixir is very fast, and takes a lot of good things from Ruby, so it's a good go-to when I need to use a functional language.

I avoid using IDEs.  I've seen some developers that are just absolute wizards at navigating the various menus and tools and ****, but to me it just makes something so simple unnecessarily complex.  I use neovim together with tmux.

Huh.  It's hard to say I "hate" a particular language.  Each has its applications.  However, given the freedom of choice, I would almost never choose to use Java.  It's just so dated, verbose, and its performance is quickly being outclassed.  I understand it is desirable in some situations, but it seems as though it's used so often in situations that do not call for it, and is simply chosen for no reason other than because the developer is familiar with it.

EDIT: Honorable mentions. Scala, Rust.

[iri]

Elixir is fast? Come on, it runs on the Erlang VM. Java's performance being outclassed? By what?

[cheebs]

Elixir is fast? Come on, it runs on the Erlang VM. Java's performance being outclassed? By what?

Yeah, so what's wrong with BEAM?  Elixir is fast compared to others in its class, particularly Ruby, PHP and others. Obviously it's not going to outperform C.  As for your second question, Scala for one.  Runtime performance is nearly the same and code can be written with greater efficiency in Scala.  I don't mean to suggest that there's a ton of other OOP languages giving Java the smackdown in benchmarks, I mean it's being outclassed by this new generation of expressive languages that offer similar performance.  My point is, if you're that concerned with runtime efficiency, why the **** are you using Java?  And if you're not that concerned with runtime, then really, WHY the **** are you using Java?  I'm aware there are use cases that fall in between those questions, but from my experience, it's a much smaller set than the number of applications out there using Java "just because".

[iri]

Elixir is fast? Come on, it runs on the Erlang VM. Java's performance being outclassed? By what?

Yeah, so what's wrong with BEAM?  Elixir is fast compared to others in its class, particularly Ruby, PHP and others.

Ah yes, if you compare Elixir with the interpreted languages, then it might be faster.

Java's performance being outclassed? By what?

I mean it's being outclassed by this new generation of expressive languages that offer similar performance

Ah, so, by 'performance' you meant 'expressiveness'.

My point is, if you're that concerned with runtime efficiency, why the **** are you using Java?

Because we are also concerned about automatic memory management for example.

And if you're not that concerned with runtime, then really, WHY the **** are you using Java?

Because we are concerned about libraries for example.

[cheebs]

Elixir is fast? Come on, it runs on the Erlang VM. Java's performance being outclassed? By what?

Yeah, so what's wrong with BEAM?  Elixir is fast compared to others in its class, particularly Ruby, PHP and others.

Ah yes, if you compare Elixir with the interpreted languages, then it might be faster.

Java's performance being outclassed? By what?

I mean it's being outclassed by this new generation of expressive languages that offer similar performance

Ah, so, by 'performance' you meant 'expressiveness'.

My point is, if you're that concerned with runtime efficiency, why the **** are you using Java?

Because we are also concerned about automatic memory management for example.

And if you're not that concerned with runtime, then really, WHY the **** are you using Java?

Because we are concerned about libraries for example.

Yes, I'm comparing elixir to interpreted languages. Because they offer roughly the same functionality and features to the developer.  Don't restrict language choice based on whether it's compiled/interpreted if you don't have to.  C isn't used for web applications because it's compiled, it's just because it's an absolute pain in the ass to use that way.  Writing a web application in elixir/Phoenix is just as easy as ruby/rails, and more performant.  Writing a web application in Java is a nightmare by comparison. And no, I meant performance.  Java is not the only performant language with a GC..  Which library support are you concerned about?  What are you building?  These are important questions when deciding which language to use.  I think you'd be surprised how many new languages have solid libraries available.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[iri]

And no, I meant performance

All right. Which languages actually outclass Java then?

[davkol]

It would help to be clear, whether the talk is about JVM, or about the language.

[rowdy]

I've also used Jython for one project, on a client's server where I can't install Python but Java is already there.

Works well, does what I need it to.

[TacticalCoder]

Elixir is fast? Come on, it runs on the Erlang VM. Java's performance being outclassed? By what?

GMP for big integers number crunching does beat the crap out of Java. I know because I'm a long time Java dev (and I mostly love Java) and I've been forced to ditch out my long forgotten C skill to interface with GMP for a project I'm working on. It's basically a CPU bound, non parallelizable (so GPUs are of no use in my case), number crunching task involving very big integers. C with the GMP lib is about eight times faster than Java's BigInteger in my case.


Of course I can call GMP from Java but: a) that's not really Java anymore and b) C+GMP is still faster (I know because I tried).


Otherwise Ur/Web + Postgres is very fast at serving dynamic webpages, way faster than Java. Still Java does fare very very well in this benchmark (lies, damn lies, and benchmarks, but still very interesting):


https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/


Java / JVMs holds three of the top six spots so definitely not bad: very impressive I'd even say. Basically beating everything besides the language specifically crafted for that usecase (Ur/Web).


There are other domains where other people will have examples of languages being a better fit than Java (I have a family-relative who owns a company selling broadcasting solutions to asian TV networks: in his case it's a mix of proprietary hardware and C/C++ codebase and he tells me Java simply is too slow for his purposes) but that BigInteger thing is one place where I got personally badly hurt by Java's slowness.