Which is the fastest switch for touch typing?

[KeypressGraphics]

Greetings good keyboard folk,

I have been lurking on these forums for a little while and am what you might call a Newbie to 'specialist' keyboards, though I've been a touch typist for many years.

I am currently using a Razer Lycosa which is big on features, but uses standard membrane keyswitches. This hasn't been much of an issue in the past, but as I have recently made a mental commitment to try and get my WPM up to around the 90 mark over the summer holidays (it's summer over here in Australia) I'd like to upgrade to something better suited to long hours of Mavis Beacon.



And so to cut to the chase, is there any particular kind of keyswitch which is universally regarded as the 'fastest' for touch typists?
I'm comfortable staying with QWERTY having used them for close to twenty years so dvorak and other layouts are out for me, but for my next keyboard I'd like to choose something thats "built for speed" so to speak.

I am keen to hear your thoughts on the matter. I'd also like to send a big Thankyou to everyone who contributes here as I've learnt a huge amount about keyboards already since discovering the forum several weeks ago.

[AndrewZorn]

i doubt you are going to get a solid answer, this is very much up to preference.

so ill start,
cherry browns, maybe cherry blues.
topre is nice but very hard to get in a groove for speed.
i cant imagine anyone suggesting something like cherry black.
for pure speed purposes, unfortunately the low-travel laptop keyboards have been repeatedly mentioned as the fastest.

make sure to avoid keyboards with issues at high typing speed.  the Das, Filco Zero are the two common ones.

[spremino]

I type the fastest on my netbook's chiclet keyboard (however I wouldn't recommend it for long typing sessions), then on a Filco with Cherry browns. I also own a Model M and a Cherry with clears for comparison.

[AndrewZorn]

yeah, i should have mention i have ONLY used browns, blues, and topre.  and of course membranes.  alps could very well be better for me, too.

[ch_123]

Of all the switches I currently own, Cherry Blues feel the most effortless. Although I'm probably as fast and slightly more accurate with Buckling Springs. As has been said, given some of the better switches (BS, Topre, Cherry Blue/Brown, Clicky Alps) there's no real speed advantage over the others once you are used to them.

Good laptop keyboards are quite fast though as well.

[spremino]

The thing I find nice about chiclet keyboards is that flat keycaps are very forgiving about finger positioning, therefore you can forget accuracy of movements for speed's sake. Kind of what flamenco guitarists do: they achieve blazing speeds while playing because both their guitars have short action and they don't care that much about a clean sound.

[keyb_gr]

Of all the switches I currently own, Cherry Blues feel the most effortless.

Ditto - those feel like they just want to be typed on. I'm a touch slower on a Model M but that's made up for by less typos (and it's still plenty inviting).

As a general rule, everything that is somehow tactile but not too high in force and actuates at around 2 mm seems to be a fairly good starting point for quick typing.

We had almost -20°C last night here btw.

[spremino]

I consider Cherries relatively slow and inaccurate compared to Alps for example. By design, it goes for comfort over speed and precision.

That is, you think Cherry browns and blues are the the most comfortable to type on, isn't so?

[chimera15]

I actually tested a lot of different switches for my speed board hack specifically for this purpose.  The problem is multi pronged, and what will be the fastest/best is different depending on the speed/skill level of the typist.  

For instance:

In the 60-100wpm range:
A light clicky keyboard like blue cherries clearly have the advantage in this zone.  With the lighter clicky keyboard you can type extremely lightly on the board, and the lighter the switch the better, the tendency to bottom out is not extreme in this zone, and it's possible to easily control what weight you give to your keypresses easily.

 In the 100-130 wpm zone, it's clear to me that white alps complicated clearly have an advantage.  In this range you can type lightly, but you still need some heavier resistance that the complicated white alps switch will give.  You won't bottom out in this range with these switches, but you would with cherry blues.  When I tested typing on a cherry blue in this zone it was essentially like it was a linear board. I never even felt the click, the board was just too light.


Above 130 wpm, the shortest travel linear switch like a laptop scissor switch, will be the best, because your fingers will be moving super fast, you need to be able to quickly hit a switch and bounce off.  A clicky switch will just bottom out and it will be difficult to control how hard you press the key anyway.  This is why my fingers would start to hurt when I typed this fast on clicky keys, cause I was bottoming out anyway, it was like the click wasn't even there.


Anyway, that's what I've concluded from my tests so far.

[keyb_gr]

What kind of switches works best will always depend on the user.

Someone with good motorical control who manages to not bottom out even on black Alps would be one extreme. I'd have to speculate about what switches work best under these circumstances.

The other one would be "heavy hitters", possibly not even with a proper touch-typing technique. Yours truly belongs to the latter group. In this case a "forgiving" switch is highly useful, and Alps (especially the black ones, I have yet to try blue/white) just aren't since their force stays about constant after the tactile point. "Forgiving" pretty much equals "soft landing" (time for that shirt pic) or more generally some travel with a more or less linear increase in force after the tactile point, such that bottoming out is softened or avoided altogether. From my experience, BS, Cherry blues, clears and Fujitsu-Siemens rubber domes tend to match that profile, while black Alps may be felt to be uncomfortable and slowing things down as they are bottomed out hard all that time. (Don't ever give a black Alps board to a hunt and peck typist, nothing but complaints. BTDT. The Tandberg with MLs seems to work for now.)

There is not a whole lot I'd have to criticise about Cherry MX switches, save for the occasional tendency to actuate twice and sorta "fake" hysteresis on blues. Any perceived "slowness" in comparison to Alps would have to be related to the force displacement characteristic following the tactile point, certainly so with browns. Less integral work = "faster".

[chimera15]

I've also found that caps have a lot to do with speed.  Round ones for instance I've proved can definitely increase accuracy, especially for someone with larger hands/fingers like me.  The tactility and nature  of the surface can also hurt or help.

[spremino]

I actually tested a lot of different switches for my speed board hack specifically for this purpose.

[...]

Interesting comparison, thanks for posting.

Indeed, I'm experiencing increasing bottoming out on browns as my speed increases, whilst I was able to control it when I was slower.

It starts looking as if my last keyboard will be some sort of Apple Aluminium clone (a clone because I couldn't bear the original's delayed Caps Lock).

[1839cc]

Has nothing to do with Functionality and all to do with Fashion.

Except for the super fast typists.

[spremino]

You'll have plenty to choose from.  I anticipate that in 2010 that's about ALL you'll see in keyboards - Apple Aluminum clones.  Has nothing to do with Functionality and all to do with Fashion.

Well, if they are good as they seem, then they will be welcome. At least, those - like me - who live in developing countries will have more choice of good keyboards at affordable prices.

[chimera15]

I'd like to see chimera15 on a datahand

I'd like to see me on a datahand too, but at $400 + It's about 4 times my max budget for  keyboard. lol.

Watching this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DataHand-DH200-Professional-Keyboard-Ergonomic-R-S-I_W0QQitemZ330387976272QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item4ceca87050

[microsoft windows]

The Model M is great for any kind of typing except for cold-weather typing.

[spremino]

The Model M is great for any kind of typing except for cold-weather typing.

However if you type fast you will need ear buds to stand its noise.

[microsoft windows]

I've found noise to be a problem only when other people are typing.

[JBert]

However if you type fast you will need ear buds to stand its noise.

You don't know typing noise until you heard a typewriter or a model F.

[microsoft windows]

The Model M's on one of the basement computers for a reason.

[shortround]

The noise is conducive to speed.   If you type slow on a buckling spring, the whole neighborhood will know about it, therefore forcing you to type fast.

[hyperlinked]

Well I think the DataHand is the most comfortable to type on, but the Cherries are quite comfy, or effortless too. It is all in the nature of its force graph. It also means they are easy to accidental trigger and slow in bouncing back. You can test the last by using a Cherry key as if it was a fire button in a game, and compare that with, say, a real wite Alps key (also a leaf switch).

Are Cherries really that much slower in bouncing back than ALPS? What makes them that much slower?

I've suspected this somewhat from my typing experiences on my Cherry Brown board, but I haven't heard anyone bring up the recovery speed of the Cherry switches until now.

[hyperlinked]

You don't know typing noise until you heard a typewriter or a model F.

Even better... a Telex machine.

[spremino]

It's not that dramatic, but if you have a light switch with a fairly deep force graph it isn't going to recover as fast as a switch where you put a bit of more force in the top of the graph and then release. The deep force graph and light nature is what makes it feel nice.

The second description looks about a scissor-switch response with a longer travel after actuation. Are ALPS switches like that?

[spremino]

Moreover, I'd say that if you are a very fast typist, then you need a keyboard equipped with a flawless controller, otherwise you will end up with a lot of swapped letters. That rules out, for instance, some blue Cherries based keyboards. Am I right? Thanks.

[ch_123]

The Filco Majestouch (in any colour of Cherry) has no such issues. Neither do the Topres or IBMs.

[cheater1034]

Besides scissor switches, I go fastest on the white alps, but the blue cherry is my favorite

[ch_123]

I've been told by Sixty that the old AT-101s (at least the SGI ones) suffer Zero-like issues.

[AndrewZorn]

i cant imagine that the switches itself create transposition problems, ie, alps should not be some sort of stereotypical transposing switch (unless lower quality boards which transpose tend to have alps switches, but that is another issue)

[AndrewZorn]

i see your point on the chatter/scanrate

[hyperlinked]

Black ALPS definitely feel bouncier to me than my Cherry Browns.

[patrickgeekhack]

Which is the fastest switch for typing is very subjective. All of us don't find that we are the fastest on the same switch. From my personal experience:

Without considering people around me, I am fastest and more accurate on a blue Cherries keyboard. There's something about the click and the tactile point that make me less prone to making mistakes. I've made the biggest progress on my blue Cherries starting at around 75 WPM and increasing to over 100 WPM. My personal best on my blue Cherries G80-3000 is 107 WPM (no mistake). While I have been able to sometimes hit over 100 WPM with my Filco with brown Cherries and my Topre, I have never been as accurate on them as on the G80-3000. That being said, having noticed how "silent" the Topre is compared to the G80-3000, I have never been able to "let go" since then and I am always conscious that the G80-3000 is noisier and could be bothering my wife and child sleeping in the adjacent room. Because of this, I have not made any progress on it. Also, I've been using my Topre more. ALthough I prefer the blue Cherries, once you've tasted the good feeling of oneness with cup rubber, it's a very addictive feeling.

[AndrewZorn]

I am always conscious that the G80-3000 is noisier and could be bothering my wife and child sleeping in the adjacent room.

dont worry, they arent asleep, your keyboard is keeping them awake!  problem solved.

[exia]

how fast do the members here type?

[ch_123]

About 70WPM when Im doing lots of sustained typing.

[microsoft windows]

I get about 4O-5O WPM.

[InSanCen]

It depends entirely on what I am typing on, and what I am doing. Accuracy is over 98% with all of the following.

With Alps, 60ish WPM, with heavy fatigue fairly quickly.

With Black Cherries, 90ish PWM, fatigue takes quite a bit longer.

On BS I can sustain about 110WPM. The problem with that is I get "In the Zone" so to speak. I'm fine when I am typing (and not thinking about it. If I have to think, IE, HTML structure, then I slow right down to about 20-40WPM, regardless of the board), but afterwards, the joints in my fingers know about it. I then have to retire to Cherries for a few days for them to calm down.

I am a very heavy typist, and consistently bottom out BS. If I manage to improve my technique and not bottom out, then I suspect that a heavy Cherry switch, such as the blacks, would be my fastest. The trouble with fast typing on an M is that it is extremely annoying to others around you, to the point I had to bring home my M today, and am taking the cherry into work tomorrow, as, the noise is just too much. The most common comment is that it sounds like "rapid fire machine gunning".  This does not bother me in the slightest, as I have grown used to it over the years. Others however, cannot stand it.

[didjamatic]

65-70wpm with online typing tests.  If typing the way I speak/think then a bit faster.

[Rajagra]

I reached 60ish WPM and seemed to hit a wall. I don't think it's worth me dedicating time learning to go faster, I think I'll just accept that I'm older and slower than I used to be. "A man's got to know his limitations." :smile: I'm really glad I finally learned to touch-type properly though, that's the more important thing to me.

I figure I should just allow my skills to increase through actual computer use, sometimes you have to just let the learning happen rather than focus your attention on it.

One thing that surprised me was that I used to be really slow on buckling spring boards relative to other types. After practising on a blue cherry board for some time, I tried the buckling spring again and there wasn't much speed difference.

[AndrewZorn]

i usually get at least 70 on typeracer and short stuff, but not so much on a real man's typing test http://hi-games.net/typing-test,300/

[chimera15]

i usually get at least 70 on typeracer and short stuff, but not so much on a real man's typing test http://hi-games.net/typing-test,300/

Nice test!

[Oqsy]

5 min, 74 wpm on my model M and I need a soak in epsom salt.  that test is a workout my friends!  back on topic, I prefer model m for day to day use and making less errors, but my cherry brown board sure feels nice, like gorging on ice cream

[spolia optima]

Since I'm too cheap for a Topre, brown cherries are my go-to guys for marathons of fast typing, brainstorming, etc. I take those bad boys out when it's time to write a 6000 word essay in a few hours. (a few pots of coffee and some amphetamine salts don't hurt either)

[snerd]

This video kind of blew my mind as I watched it while reading this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bskNqBHjWKI

I was reading the part where you guys were bickering about which switch is faster, and this guy is flying on a membrane. It looks like the keyboard I've been typing on for about 9 years. It's just as good as the day i bought it. I've already shelled out for a Majestouch brown, because I remember enjoying mechanical keyboards, and there are none with the Microsoft form factor.  Now I'm wondering if I will like it better. I can fly on this Microsoft Natural. Anyway, thought it was interesting and semi-on-topic.

off topic: are the browns louder than this?

[Arc'xer]

This video kind of blew my mind as I watched it while reading this thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bskNqBHjWKI

I was reading the part where you guys were bickering about which switch is faster, and this guy is flying on a membrane. It looks like the keyboard I've been typing on for about 9 years. It's just as good as the day i bought it. I've already shelled out for a Majestouch brown, because I remember enjoying mechanical keyboards, and there are none with the Microsoft form factor.  Now I'm wondering if I will like it better. I can fly on this Microsoft Natural. Anyway, thought it was interesting and semi-on-topic.

off topic: are the browns louder than this?

Audio clip browns 1/2

They don't make noise, non-clicky they don't deliberately do it unless you bottom out. So if you type lightly and only half-out, you'll hardly make any noise besides the spring compressing.

I'd actually like an ergonomic natural mechanical like that. Hell it even looks like the keys are set at different heights from the video. Maybe it's because I use a desk drawer and it's kinda small so my puretrak talent takes up most of the space, so my filco is off to the side. But I also notice even straight, the way I position my arms is bent slightly. Seems like it would be nicer to type on than forcing my hands to be straight.

Off-topic: I've mentioned this before but I think I said it incorrectly. I'm aware the MX blacks get a lot of hate. But for someone with a heavy hand who bottoms out their mx blue all the time. Would it really be bad to go the linear route. And yes I know the buckling spring option but I want something a little quieter.

It's not like I type much and while I don't game as often, but when I do the blues are downright annoying and distracting plus they don't feel all too accurate. Sorry to ask this again but I also deciding on a new switch to try out.

Insancen mind chiming in since you mentioned you've used them.

[bsvP585hUO2Y6]

Arc'xer wrote on 5966 September 1993:

> Off-topic: I've mentioned this before but I think I said it incorrectly. I'm aware the
> MX blacks get a lot of hate. But for someone with a heavy hand who bottoms out their mx
> blue all the time. Would it really be bad to go the linear route.

You don't have to go the all the way to black Cherries.  The clear MX
switches are non-linear and have an even higher force to prevent
bottoming out than the blacks:

http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0146/0900766b8014611b.pdf

[microsoft windows]

i usually get at least 70 on typeracer and short stuff, but not so much on a real man's typing test http://hi-games.net/typing-test,300/

I did the test on my Model M and got 57 WPM.

[alpslover]

I was reading the part where you guys were bickering about which switch is faster, and this guy is flying on a membrane.

that's because typing speed isn't determined by the switch type, it's determined by the typist.

It looks like the keyboard I've been typing on for about 9 years. It's just as good as the day i bought it. I've already shelled out for a Majestouch brown, because I remember enjoying mechanical keyboards, and there are none with the Microsoft form factor.  Now I'm wondering if I will like it better. I can fly on this Microsoft Natural.

it depends on what you're looking for.  typing speed, or enjoyment.  maybe for you, they're synonymous, or maybe not.  you may find that you type faster on the membrane keyboard you have now, but 'enjoy' the majestouch more, in which case you can keep both.  some people have multiple keyboards for this reason.  others have found their 'one true keyboard' that satisfies them in every way.

we can tell you what all the choices are, but only you can decide which you'll like better.

[ch_123]

This video kind of blew my mind as I watched it while reading this thread:

It's a guy typing on a keyboard for a minute. As for WPM, I'm a 'screenshot or it didn't happen' kinda guy.

[alpslover]

It's a guy typing on a keyboard for a minute. As for WPM, I'm a 'screenshot or it didn't happen' kinda guy.

he did show a shot of the screen at the end of the video - it was 152wpm.