Author Topic: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?  (Read 10332 times)

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Offline typo

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Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« on: Fri, 01 September 2017, 05:37:59 »
If there happen to be any gamers around I was wondering how you like the Xbox Elite controller. I have one sitting in it's box currently. Not sure if I should open it or return it. Overall I take it is exceptionally nice but very often short lived. So I am not sure regarding the second part of that statement. Is there anything you like better? The only other pricey controller I know of is the Razer wildcat but I personally feel it is pretty lousy.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 01 September 2017, 13:14:20 »
 well i literally had an entire paragraph typed out lauding this controller, but my browser crashed so **** it.

Bottom line - it is literally the best console-style controller on the market, maybe ever made. I was actually on the engineering team for the Elite and we put a ton of effort into making it the best out there, going against everything management wanted in terms of cutting down on quality due to price. In the end we made very few compromises, and for the only time in my life everyone on the team was proud of what we built.

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 01 September 2017, 14:08:27 »
Thank you. I guess I will open it. I just want to ask you what about the Razer Wolverine Ultimate coming out next week? I can probably already answer that if it is like anything else from Razer. I mean heck steel series is above them. they have balls to make a controller $10 more than the elite. I did try it and it felt incredible. It is a little heavy but not too bad. I highly doubt the Razer is better. I hardly even game except a little NFS and GTA. It was a gift anyways. I did something for free for someone worth like $5,000 at my prices so they just got me that. I honestly did not expect anything so this is good. I know I mentioned Wildcat but Wolverine just came out. wildcat was not nearly at the level of the elite so I doubt they beat this try. what killed the wildcat mainly for me was the "sticker" grips. I think those that broke the Elite manhandled it. I see what a lot of hardcore gamers do so I bet that explains the failures. Considering I am by no means a "gamer" I am sure I will love it. even the stock Controller is great to me. I am playing on a PC but I am sure you guessed that. I was not about to get a wheel and pedals. I look at this and realize it is funny. I am doing pretty good for my age. you never know what people are like. Heck maybe I will play more.

Offline wishful_cynic

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 01 September 2017, 16:27:01 »
Beware of wear and tear issues.  Read reviews.  Many people experience breakdown of components over less than a year of use.

Honestly, check out the Wii U Pro controllers.  I think they might be called something different now for the Switch.  They have an 80-hour battery life and feel fantastic.  I wish I would have kept one of ours when I sold them along our upstairs Wii U.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 02 September 2017, 00:17:54 »
I would also be curious on some honest feedback if anyone has some experience with the Elite controller. And if it's not your favorite controller, what is?

also, if you get CronusMAX you can use it with ps3/4 which basically makes it the only hand controller you'll ever use
« Last Edit: Sat, 02 September 2017, 00:22:48 by noisyturtle »

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 02 September 2017, 01:14:11 »
Just read the reviews at Amazon. I can't say as I just tried it but it feels like something really expensive to me.

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 02 September 2017, 03:15:11 »
You know what? Since I am using it usb wired on a pc and I also have the weight of the cord. Can I use it without the batteries to lower the weight? I figured if anything it just would not function but not sure if damage could occur. Not a stupid question because this is true of certain devices. It is kind of heavy to me but that must add to the feeling of solidity. Coming from a Standard Xbox One controller maybe it is not much heavier. I had a Cheap PDP licensed controller which is much lighter. Since I will not use it much t really does ot even matter. Also for that reason plus I respect hardware I bet mine does not break but who knows. As I mentioned not only do some people play 6+ hours a day they manhandle things. I am really gentle and might play 3-4 hours a week. I know in my case it is stupid to have this but it was a gift of sorts. I can still appreciate quality. Compared to he PDP or even the standard MS issue, well there is no comparison. I actually did somewhat better and that has to be attributed to the controller. It really is a wor of art. I am not sure how so many broke but I have a good idea. If that is the case there is no excuse to bash it because many of these people are adults. I see they even mod these but what is the point, that is cheating. I do not understand some people.

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 03 September 2017, 08:49:23 »
This thing is heavy. That really is the only downside but worth it. It is super high quality. I am just betting all those people were too hard on theirs but time will tell. I do agree 90 day warranty sucks for this. I have paddles setup as clutch and sift. With that it is so much better than a standard controller. Of course there is Scuf, Evil Etc. but I do not need that. Although I thought I did not need this. Now you know I played through the night. Which blows because now I have to start on the farm then later I have to code. So I am understanding why Monster beverages are so popular amongst Gamers LOL. Turtle do you work for a certain company in Redmond? I do. I cannot disclose what I do though.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 03 September 2017, 09:45:45 »
This thing is heavy. That really is the only downside but worth it. It is super high quality. I am just betting all those people were too hard on theirs but time will tell. I do agree 90 day warranty sucks for this. I have paddles setup as clutch and sift. With that it is so much better than a standard controller. Of course there is Scuf, Evil Etc. but I do not need that. Although I thought I did not need this. Now you know I played through the night. Which blows because now I have to start on the farm then later I have to code. So I am understanding why Monster beverages are so popular amongst Gamers LOL. Turtle do you work for a certain company in Redmond? I do. I cannot disclose what I do though.

typo,   handing out pr0nhub premium accounts to all his friends...

//Confirmed.. !!

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 03 September 2017, 10:36:52 »
LOL TP4. Unfortunately they are not even in that business.

You, know I was thinking what you said about Gamers and hands. I then was at a mall and witnessed these nasty looking girl gamers playing on the stores equipment. I do not know your opinion but as far as hands go to me that is even more gross. Quite frankly it would not even matter if they were hot to me. Both sexes not washing hands and good hygiene in general is puke. It is not stereotypical, a lot of these younger people into this side of computing you can plainly see they do not know what soap means. Yuck, those stores are gross. Like try on shoes. I get mine right from the manufacturer. I am not a Germ Phreak, nasty is nasty. On another note I am happily married and only noticed these people 1/4 my age because they looked unkept. End of rant LOL.

No, honestly I mean tasteful stuff like PlayBoy is fine with me. There are plenty of things on the internet I am sure I do not even want to know about. That would be funny if MS secretly owned all the Pr0n sites. Who knows, how else did they make so much money? Really, if BG himself is worth 72 billion after giving half his money away do you even have any idea what the Gross profit of the company is HAHA. He is a very good man though. I respect him a lot.  Oh, and he washes his hands a whole lot!

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 03 September 2017, 12:10:40 »
LOL TP4. Unfortunately they are not even in that business.

You, know I was thinking what you said about Gamers and hands. I then was at a mall and witnessed these nasty looking girl gamers playing on the stores equipment. I do not know your opinion but as far as hands go to me that is even more gross. Quite frankly it would not even matter if they were hot to me. Both sexes not washing hands and good hygiene in general is puke. It is not stereotypical, a lot of these younger people into this side of computing you can plainly see they do not know what soap means. Yuck, those stores are gross. Like try on shoes. I get mine right from the manufacturer. I am not a Germ Phreak, nasty is nasty. On another note I am happily married and only noticed these people 1/4 my age because they looked unkept. End of rant LOL.

No, honestly I mean tasteful stuff like PlayBoy is fine with me. There are plenty of things on the internet I am sure I do not even want to know about. That would be funny if MS secretly owned all the Pr0n sites. Who knows, how else did they make so much money? Really, if BG himself is worth 72 billion after giving half his money away do you even have any idea what the Gross profit of the company is HAHA. He is a very good man though. I respect him a lot.  Oh, and he washes his hands a whole lot!



^^^^...  A very desperate/ convoluted/ lengthy cover story..

'sok -typo-,  you pay bills and taxes,   no one here is judging..


haahhahahahhahaa

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 03 September 2017, 17:52:35 »
EH, I figured you would think that was funny.

Back on topic the heft of this thing probably just adds to the feeling of quality. It is something really nice.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 03 September 2017, 19:27:05 »
EH, I figured you would think that was funny.

Back on topic the heft of this thing probably just adds to the feeling of quality. It is something really nice.

the only bad thing i hurd about it is the bumpers breaking off easily..  which is why they sell replacement bumpers on ebay,

but i hurdz the replacement plastic isn't the same quality..   but again, this is this keycap feels a gram lighter category..

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 03 September 2017, 22:53:01 »
No, it is like 5.5 ounces more than the regular one. I heard all kinds of stuff broke on it but it will see very light usage here so hopefully it is okay. I do think 90 day warranty is uncalled for.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 03 September 2017, 23:38:36 »
No, it is like 5.5 ounces more than the regular one. I heard all kinds of stuff broke on it but it will see very light usage here so hopefully it is okay. I do think 90 day warranty is uncalled for.

5.5 is alot for a controller though.. 

similar to cellphones, they keep the weight down for a reason

it's not heavy on its own for 5 minutes..   but you take that across an hour,  it'll feel pretty heavy.

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 05 September 2017, 01:23:54 »
No it is 5.5 more than the standard one at Something like 12.5. So, yeah t is heavy.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 06 September 2017, 22:56:51 »
who gets tired holding a controller, and how the hell are you holding it that it's causing it to become too heavy? are you holding it above your head, tp?

Offline Boskr

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 07 September 2017, 07:40:13 »
I've considered getting an XB1 Elite, but I have almost 1000 hours in Rocket League with a regular XB1 pad, with metal sticks, and I really don't have any interest in the features of the Elite. It's made with great components, but the whole "swapping analog sticks and dpad" and the back paddles just seem really gimmicky to me. The analog sticks seem okay, but you can already do that on an XB1 pad with about 2 minutes of your time.

I wish there were some controller made with the nice components of the Elite controller, without the extra stuff I'll never touch. I'd buy that for sure.
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Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 07 September 2017, 12:10:53 »
Maybe check out the Razer Wolverine Ultimate. Date keeps getting pushed up/ Now 9/30/17. It is $169 which is crazy for what it is. Razer is not known for quality but these are higher end. MS threw everything they had at the Elite. It is perfect for me in racing games. Paddle are Gas, Clutch, Brake. Having the paddles is not a wheel but I do not have room for one here. It is much nicer setup that way than without the paddles. Plus the adjustable hairpin is great if you are using an Automatic paddle shift race car. It is really fun. I would not buy it myself but a guy owed me something kind of. Only reason is I only play like 6 hours a week. Although that seems to just have increased :) I know the big thing is FPS but I love racing and I cannot own every race car. I have a few real ones but anyways you cannot legally drive like that. I just like racing and not much for FPS. I am sure I could get into it but I cannot jeopardize my work which is a heck of a lot. Between the farm and coding I put in 16 hours most days and I am not young. Of course other people work at both jobs but I need to carry my weight. For the few that play all day not professionally I do not know how fun that would be anyways.

It just feels heavy. It is not tiring or anything. Certainly not the little I play. I do have to use both hands so it is no problem at all. I was just saying it is heavier than most controllers.  It feels 10x as solid. Maybe someone would get tired in Ten hours. I am not sure it is legal pro unless you use the cord?

Offline Boskr

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 07 September 2017, 14:52:37 »
Between the farm and coding I put in 16 hours most days

That is a sentence I never thought I would read. Two professions at very opposite ends of the spectrum!
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Offline iliptikal

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 07 September 2017, 15:29:05 »
I absolutely LOVE my elite controller.  I've also seen people complain of issues with theirs, but I bought one at launch and have had no issues with it at all. 

The back paddles are such an amazing addition, making it so you never move your thumbs from the thumb sticks.  This allows full camera movement while doing other button presses, and I've become so used to having them there that I can't use anything else.

I say open that puppy up, and start enjoying the best controller on the market OP.

Offline davkol

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 09 September 2017, 05:59:52 »
Between the farm and coding I put in 16 hours most days

That is a sentence I never thought I would read. Two professions at very opposite ends of the spectrum!

Why? It's quite common actually.

Offline Boskr

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 09 September 2017, 10:21:10 »
Between the farm and coding I put in 16 hours most days

That is a sentence I never thought I would read. Two professions at very opposite ends of the spectrum!

Why? It's quite common actually.
I don't doubt that. It's just when I think of a stereotypical programmer and a stereotypical farmer, they seem like really different people.

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« Last Edit: Sat, 09 September 2017, 11:07:14 by Boskr »
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Offline davkol

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 09 September 2017, 13:40:53 »
Everything else aside, your average burnt-out tech guy probably dreams of raising goats or anything else low-tech.

That said, modern agriculture has nothing to do with rednecks on a tractor.

Offline RELLIK

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 09 September 2017, 14:00:04 »
well i literally had an entire paragraph typed out lauding this controller, but my browser crashed so **** it.

Bottom line - it is literally the best console-style controller on the market, maybe ever made. I was actually on the engineering team for the Elite and we put a ton of effort into making it the best out there, going against everything management wanted in terms of cutting down on quality due to price. In the end we made very few compromises, and for the only time in my life everyone on the team was proud of what we built.

So mechanical face buttons?



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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 09 September 2017, 16:23:10 »
well i literally had an entire paragraph typed out lauding this controller, but my browser crashed so **** it.

Bottom line - it is literally the best console-style controller on the market, maybe ever made. I was actually on the engineering team for the Elite and we put a ton of effort into making it the best out there, going against everything management wanted in terms of cutting down on quality due to price. In the end we made very few compromises, and for the only time in my life everyone on the team was proud of what we built.

So mechanical face buttons?

There was a build using microswitches, but it was deemed too noisy and someone had big unfounded issues with potential individual part failure (which is ****ing insane) and basically convinced everyone to use a standard silicon pcb sheet.

I actually use one on my Elite's as my PS3/4 controller, because Sony makes the worst controller sticks (waaay too much stick travel, and they hit the housing making squeeking noises) and their mushy shoulder buttons piss me off.
« Last Edit: Sat, 09 September 2017, 16:25:33 by noisyturtle »

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 10 September 2017, 22:26:52 »
I have been using it and it is considerably nicer than the standard controller. The paddles are great for racing. It feels considerably higher quality than the stock.

The redneck is stereotypical but mainly true. In the past at least. Now it takes brains. Just as IT Guy's are nerds. Here is the thing. I have been making money for a long time now and I do not commute whatsoever! So to me, it sounds like a darn good setup. They balance each other out limiting stress. I pity those that spend 4 hours driving each day. Of course on the other hand I put in long hours and neither is an easy job. I have been doing both so long that they come as second nature already.

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 14 September 2017, 23:12:49 »
I wonder if the upcoming Razer wolverine Ultimate is nicer. Knowing Razer I highly doubt it. They have some nerve to sell a controller for $160 at their level of quality but who knows maybe this is nice.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 15 September 2017, 16:15:29 »
I wonder if the upcoming Razer wolverine Ultimate is nicer. Knowing Razer I highly doubt it. They have some nerve to sell a controller for $160 at their level of quality but who knows maybe this is nice.

Well, with Razer you know at least the product packaging is going to be top-notch.

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 16 September 2017, 15:01:23 »
True enough. I cannot see a $169 Razer controller. This replaces another controller that was $169 and supposed to be competiton for the Elite. They failed bad and now you can pick that one up for $49 LoL. This looks to be the same darn thing with yet a few more buttons. Message to Razer: Buttons are not a replacement for quality! Seeing as that has been at $49 a long time, Razer is really considered low end. I hope we all agree. Sure they ave 14 year old fans of a product their parents bought hem. I do not think any of us would consider any of their keyboards viable for instance. Okay, here ges.... Razer really just sucks. That is IMO, YMMV. I highly doubt on their second attempt they cam anywhere close to the Elite. 2 Months after release this will be about $79 I bet. The Elite is of insane quality. To buy this for $169 would be insane as well! IMO again.

Offline NamelessPFG

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 20 September 2017, 22:04:39 »
I've seen internal shots of the Xbox One Elite pad, and it looks like their analog sticks still use conventional potentiometers instead of the contactless Hall sensors Sony used for the majority of the DualShock 3's production run (or, for that matter, what Sega used on the Saturn and Dreamcast pads).

Not what I expect on a $100+ gamepad, but given that even the DualShock 4 reverted to potentiometers and the Xbox One uses Hall effect triggers like the Saturn and Dreamcast, it may simply be a matter of being unable to source parts from a supplier in any significant quantity.

I do have a standard Xbox One pad that came with my Oculus Rift, though, and it's a nice piece of kit. It displaced the Xbox 360 wireless pad I was using pretty much instantly because the D-Pad was actually pretty good this time, the analog sticks are noticeably less sloppy around center (but still not as tight as a DualShock 3's), and it's overall just much more ergonomic. Oh, and since it's second-revision with the headset jack (but no Bluetooth), the LB/RB bumpers aren't awkward to engage. All in all, an ideal gamepad for XInput games.

That said, one gamepad does NOT fit all, and there are several reasons for me to bring up alternative pads.
-2D games are still best played on a Neo-Geo CD pad, if the mini-stick's microswitches are still clicky and responsive. There's also PS2 and PS3 variations that change it to a 6-face-button layout and add shoulder buttons, making it a serious contender for the rounded/Japanese-style Sega Saturn pad for "best 2D gamepad of all time", but those are rather obscure and expensive when you do find them for sale.

Also continuing along those lines, sometimes you just want six face buttons, not four. Most fighting games are asking for it (barring the ones that use four buttons or less), and Radiant Silvergun would just feel wrong on a 4-face-button pad regardless of that XBLA port.

-If you have any interest in PCSX2 or GTA III/VC/SA, the DualShock 3's analog buttons make it by far the best choice. The PC versions of the GTA games have an input plugin for harnessing the DS3 natively (yes, with the SCP drivers, no MotioninJoy needed) that makes them handle just like the PS2 versions, analog gas/brake, rudder, cheat codes and all, and several PS2 games that you can play in PCSX2 (most notably the Ace Combat titles and MGS2/3) also make extensive use of analog buttons for fine control.

Funnily enough, the original Xbox's face buttons were analog, but I think only MGS2 and the GTA ports used that particular bit of functionality.

-Older DirectInput API games may leave you wanting for an option that lets you remap the analog triggers as split axes (ideal for racing games) or emulated buttons (for games that don't let you map certain actions to an axis), as well as swapping inputs around (for example, making the right stick X and Y so you can use it for arm movements in Die By The Sword VSIM mode). The XBCD drivers for original Xbox pads are the only decent option here, and MotioninJoy could've been up there for DS3 pads if the interface wasn't a completely ass-backwards security hole.

Offline typo

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 20 September 2017, 23:38:22 »
Interestingly NSF and GTA, al of them are what I play. I am a big fan of racing and in real life as well. Not stupid on the street obviously. I find a pot very nice. I remember when Commodore 64, vic 20 Etc had junk joysticks that simply hit 4 buttons. Sort of like A dpad under a stick. Then apple blew them away with a pot based stick albeit tiny. I instantly bought an apple II than II E. I do not know how old all of you are if you remember this stuff. What I am saying though is I actually prefer a pot. I know you wil disagree but I find it easier to control with accuracy than the hall. The hall is too loose for me. I was playing with a DS4 and once I got the Elite it was night and day. I really do not know if the DS3 hall would be nicer for me. I can't say as I am not sure I have tried it but probably have and don't distinctly remember. I find the Elite great for these games. Can use a paddle as clutch and that is great because the position of it makes you much more likely to do better. The clutch in these games is just on/off so it is fine for that task. I do not se how you can say any DS# is better than the Elite. The elite is very well built even though everyone has them failing. You know how these kids treat things. They are not telling the whole truth I pretty much imagine. It is extremely nice. I also highly doubt Razer has outdone them. It is a newer model of one that was also $159 from them and it absolutely sucked. ended up selling as low as $59 but usually $79. I really see that happening again. I can go look through the basement for a DS3 controller but I am very happy with the Elite. TBH, I am not really a gamer. I hardly have time to play. so having a $159 controller is a blessing to begin with. quite frankly it could be in better hands. On the other hand I will almost bet you it does not break on me. Not due to lack of use but due to usage by a clean, respectful adult. Nonetheless for what is available now, if one is using windows I see nothing better. If you want to go looking perhaps you are correct indeed.

Offline NamelessPFG

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 22 September 2017, 04:46:51 »
Potentiometers vs. Hall effect sensors has no bearing on looseness vs. tightness, though; that's all on the stick's gimbal mechanism to provide a tight feeling instead of loose and sloppy with loads of center play. People with expensive flight sticks know this, given all the gimbal mods out there.

It's worth noting that Microsoft pads traditionally have tons of slop in the middle that has to be masked by software deadzones, and this goes all the way back to the original Xbox. The Xbox One pads feel a bit tighter, but not enough to get away with eliminating deadzone in DirectInput-based games.

Meanwhile, I can tighten up the deadzone on a DualShock 3 (can't speak too much about other Sony pads) and still not have to worry about drift, partly because the analog sticks had tighter tolerances than the Xbox Controller S and Xbox 360 pads, partly because the Hall sensors won't spike over time and deliver clean readings. Can't speak on the DualShock 4 yet, as I don't own one of those.

It's something that people will notice; Logitech actually got some complaints for imposing some kinda firmware-level deadzone on the F310/F510/F710 series pads compared to the older Dual Action/Rumblepad 2 that they replaced, and at least brand new, their analog stick modules of choice are pretty tight.

Firmware-level deadzones can be a real pain, since it results in things like Sega Saturn analog pads having only halfway-usable triggers and considerable edge deadzone on the stick/nub with a really twitchy center. (And no, I can't just shift the magnets to fix this. Tried that on the triggers, and it just results in the same amount of deadzone on replug with little usable range.

Anyway, if you already have the Xbox One Elite pad, just use it and enjoy it. I can't bring myself to spend that much on a mere gamepad, though, especially given how I switch them up depending on the game. (This even goes as far as using a GameCube controller adapter in Dolphin, not just for the unusual GCN face button shapes, but because the analog L and R triggers have a separate analog button click at the end - a feature only otherwise found in the original Wii Classic Controller, the Valve Steam Controller, and the HTC Vive wands.)

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Re: Gaming input? Xbox One elite?
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 25 September 2017, 07:19:23 »
I will look for a DS3. The DS4 is better than the Xbox one controller. The elite is better than both of them and I would hope so. I really like it. As I began I was not sure but I am glad I opened it weeks ago. There are so many bad reviews. Though many of them undoubtedly from very young people who use them very hard and are really into their games. I just fit in a little GTA or NFS when I can. Of course I did not need this for that but I felt it in the store and was impressed. It feels much nicer than the standard controller. I do take those 2 iterations of games seriously but I have a lot of responsibilities. I would love to just play for a whole day at least once. I think the good thing is it probably not break, not getting much mileage. Dead zones are not a big deal with the software. There really is no slop in it anyways. Without even tweaking the App it is better than the stock controller.