Author Topic: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements (BKE Redux)  (Read 36651 times)

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Offline jchan94

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[IC] Topre Dome Replacements (BKE Redux)
« on: Sat, 20 August 2016, 14:50:19 »
Coming 11/11 (Probably)
for retail. no gb


BKE Dome Tutorial
Please read thoroughly.

https://imgur.com/a/Wmg0B




Pricing
More
Topre Domes Samples (5 light, 5 heavy)- $10
Topre Domes Light - 25 units - $18
Topre Domes Light - 70 units - $50
Topre Domes Light - 110 units - $66
Topre Domes Heavy - 25 units - $18
Topre Domes Heavy - 70 units - $50
Topre Domes Heavy - 110 units - $66


Old Stuff
More
I recently acquired a Novatouch & Realforce 87U beige (thanks Apolotary) and after a lot of back n forth, I personally prefer the 45G, but I like the RF more feel more overall. I'd love to get something more heavy than 45g, but can't handle 55g.

So I'm going to try to undergo a project, and hopefully I'll see some support. I've already done some of the legwork so we'll see how to go forward.

The Goal

The goal is to produce a spring that, when placed between the housing and the keycap of a 45g topre board, will mimic the feel of a 55g board. (ghetto domeswap)

My Focus

My focus is on quality, and that's why I'm working to make the first batch in USA first, then making it in China.

Why do this?

cheap heavier switches.  aka the ghetto dome swap

heavier than 55g switches for those of you with fingers that flex

replace lost spacebar springs

Here's what I have.

1) Topre Spacebar uses approximately 40g to compress (nickel test)

2) Approximate weight of the spring should be 10g or so to get a ghetto 55g actuation force.

Here's a nice chart made by ek.com for reference.



3) I found some local spring factories in SoCal that I will be working with on top of my Mechanical Engineer friend to work on this design of the spring. After we finalize the design and produce the initial batch here in Los Angeles, we will be moving forwarding with a production with a spring factory in Hong Kong.

What's the next step?

Well I've done some research, but even with that, nothing has been pushed on my end :P

I will be going to the SoCal factory this week and measuring the NT & RF. I'll be measuring force curve & the compression of the springs with keycaps on and off.

A likely asked question

Why don't I just buy the ones off taobao from Topre clones?

AFAIK, those don't fit properly in Topre boards, but you can correct me if I'm wrong.

« Last Edit: Fri, 03 November 2017, 04:35:57 by jchan94 »
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Offline ultraidiot

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 20 August 2016, 14:59:00 »
I lost my space bar spring and springs I got off taobao only fit on the topre clones. It's finally going to happen. Ghetto 55g swaps incoming!

Oh and the taobao springs for the rc930 and the likes doesn't fit around the little lip of the topre housing so the spring crunches.
« Last Edit: Sat, 20 August 2016, 15:00:40 by ultraidiot »

Online kawasaki161

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 20 August 2016, 15:28:04 »
Definitely a cool idea, if it works out at the end I'll maybe buy some to test them out.
Are you still working on the MX springs or was that plan dropped?

Offline xondat

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 20 August 2016, 15:29:50 »
Cool idea.

I use two springs on my Realforce spacebar, so having different weights would be great to offer. Something like 10g, 20g, and 40g?

Offline jchan94

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 20 August 2016, 15:35:32 »
Cool idea.

I use two springs on my Realforce spacebar, so having different weights would be great to offer. Something like 10g, 20g, and 40g?

Different weights are definitely the way to go. I'd personally want to try a 52g topre.

Definitely a cool idea, if it works out at the end I'll maybe buy some to test them out.
Are you still working on the MX springs or was that plan dropped?

MX is in the back burner right now and was going to get canceled with spirits GB but it looks like I might have to manufacture that.

For now,  focused more on topre since it's something I'd personally like to have more :)
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Offline romevi

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 20 August 2016, 19:42:05 »
That sounds awesome!

Offline yomammary

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 22 August 2016, 09:42:05 »
So I guess the spring would also make a 55g board into 65g?  :eek:
Count me in.
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Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 22 August 2016, 10:07:39 »
Cool idea.

I use two springs on my Realforce spacebar, so having different weights would be great to offer. Something like 10g, 20g, and 40g?

Different weights are definitely the way to go. I'd personally want to try a 52g topre.

Definitely a cool idea, if it works out at the end I'll maybe buy some to test them out.
Are you still working on the MX springs or was that plan dropped?

MX is in the back burner right now and was going to get canceled with spirits GB but it looks like I might have to manufacture that.

For now,  focused more on topre since it's something I'd personally like to have more :)


From my understanding of Topre switches, the tactile feedback and most of the weighting of the switch is provided by the domes, not the swpring, so swapping to a heavier weight spring to similate 55g may not provide the same feel as an actual Topre 55g dome, is this correct? I feel we need more testing  ;)

(I don't currently have any Topre boards, having sold my Novatouch, but I do have a so-called 'Nopre' clone from Royal Kludge with 55g actuation (supposedly, I haven't quantitatively tested this yet). Would be interested to find out if it would work with this board and how aftermarket springs affect the actuation distance (If I recall, the spring is actually the sensing element of the capacitive detection mechanism)
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Offline xondat

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 22 August 2016, 10:49:30 »
You're putting a 10g switch under the keycap/on the stem, not in the keyboard itself. Effectively it will add 10g.

Offline duynguyenle

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 22 August 2016, 11:07:59 »
You're putting a 10g switch under the keycap/on the stem, not in the keyboard itself. Effectively it will add 10g.

I see, I think I misunderstood, I thought we are trying to replace the capacitive spring under the dome itself.
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Offline xondat

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 22 August 2016, 11:58:51 »
You're putting a 10g switch under the keycap/on the stem, not in the keyboard itself. Effectively it will add 10g.

I see, I think I misunderstood, I thought we are trying to replace the capacitive spring under the dome itself.
Those would be way too hard to recreate. But you're right, it's the domes that depict the weight.

Offline TheBestUkester

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 23 August 2016, 16:11:10 »
In!

Offline deci

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 23 August 2016, 16:53:26 »
Very interesting.

Definitely want to try this out.

Offline Giorgio

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 27 August 2016, 03:27:10 »
Very interested in springs identical to novatouch.

But obviously it all depends on the price ;-)

Offline zer09

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 22 October 2016, 22:05:30 »
How about a spring that will get more heavier if it is depress more, to give cushion when the dome collapse.

Offline iamtootallforthis

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 22 October 2016, 22:07:40 »
I would be in for heavier springs like 20, 30 or 40g

Offline ntw

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 24 October 2016, 22:01:08 »


I have these springs from NT and they are not the same spec as the ones found on my Leopold Spacebars. I have to nudge them in properly to make sure they stay on around the slider housing instead of on it (compare the spring on Ins key that is not seated properly with the ones on Home, End and PgUp)

The springs are a ghetto fix to make the key feels heavier but it has this squishy feeling when bottomed out that sucks. I found that it is because the springs have more coils and when you bottom out you are rubbing the spring coils against each other and makes the squishy feeling.
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Offline ticktwo

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 04 November 2016, 06:12:31 »
awesome!
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Offline jchan94

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 01:59:06 »
Just wanted to update this!

We are changing the project to become a TOPRE DOME project instead. We are currently working on the 3D model of the domes.

Hype!
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Offline yomammary

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 07:17:00 »
Just wanted to update this!

We are changing the project to become a TOPRE DOME project instead. We are currently working on the 3D model of the domes.

Hype!
Quality will need to be top notch.
RF 87u 55g | Leeku 1800 | GH60

Offline menuhin

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 08:01:01 »
Should totally do that!
This can potentially make my PLUM taste like a RealForce!

What's the price point by the way? Like some of those Korean rubber dome sheets on eBay?
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Offline SJHL

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 08:14:18 »
Just wanted to update this!

We are changing the project to become a TOPRE DOME project instead. We are currently working on the 3D model of the domes.

Hype!

Was debating with the springs but now im definitely in with the domes.

Offline jchan94

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 16:14:47 »
Just wanted to update this!

We are changing the project to become a TOPRE DOME project instead. We are currently working on the 3D model of the domes.

Hype!
Quality will need to be top notch.

Will PM RAMA about it. Hope he can spare a minute to help me on this :).

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Offline iamtootallforthis

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 16:18:51 »
Just wanted to update this!

We are changing the project to become a TOPRE DOME project instead. We are currently working on the 3D model of the domes.

Hype!
Quality will need to be top notch.

Will PM RAMA about it. Hope he can spare a minute to help me on this :).

Do you have a list of weight options in mind for the domes?

Offline steven_g

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 16:35:19 »
I'm interested in this. Can you ballpark a price?

Offline dilbertprogrammer

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 17:36:47 »
65g Topre domes PLEEEEEEEASE   ;D

Offline jchan94

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 18:10:26 »
Just wanted to update this!

We are changing the project to become a TOPRE DOME project instead. We are currently working on the 3D model of the domes.

Hype!
Quality will need to be top notch.

Will PM RAMA about it. Hope he can spare a minute to help me on this :).

Do you have a list of weight options in mind for the domes?

55g, 60g, and 65g i believe.

No ballpark on price. No Quotes.
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Offline iamtootallforthis

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Re: [IC] Topre Spring Swap
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 20:13:13 »
Just wanted to update this!

We are changing the project to become a TOPRE DOME project instead. We are currently working on the 3D model of the domes.

Hype!
Quality will need to be top notch.

Will PM RAMA about it. Hope he can spare a minute to help me on this :).

Do you have a list of weight options in mind for the domes?

55g, 60g, and 65g i believe.

No ballpark on price. No Quotes.

Oh awesome! Hoping these get made as I would love to have a heavier Topre board.

Offline richard912

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 16 November 2016, 20:23:04 »
If these fit into a Novatouch, I'm in for the 55g

Offline asen1994

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 23 November 2016, 09:52:00 »
hope i can get the 55g domes

Offline r5d

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 24 November 2016, 04:42:36 »
I'd like some 55g domes for my 2 Novatouches. Interested.
I like keyboards

Offline mrkevint

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 24 November 2016, 11:31:59 »
Awesome project! I'd be interested in domes for my Novatouch and HHKB. I'm glad I no longer have to justify getting a new board lol.

Offline feediko

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 24 November 2016, 17:14:13 »
Also interested in domes for my 2 Novatouches

Offline robotmaxtron

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 21 December 2016, 13:25:08 »
Interested.

Offline dante

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 21 December 2016, 13:53:12 »
How expensive is it to make a dome sheet?  I'm trying to figure out $$$ for creating a custom 87 scissor switch keyboard.

Offline ixtopolis

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 21 December 2016, 18:45:24 »
Definitely interested.

Offline inosint

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 21 December 2016, 21:03:59 »
Very interested, an offering in the 70g+ range would be very appealing

Offline WNovizar

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 22 December 2016, 01:57:56 »
Does that mean you are no longer offering replacements for spacebar springs? I lost my novatouch springs......
I like mechanical keyboards

Offline jchan94

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 22 December 2016, 03:16:59 »
The spacebar springs are going through some work in a USA-based manufacturer. I've been in chats with them for a little while and we should have samples in January. I know it's been a long time coming, but I'd rather have this done properly :).

Recently, I got a hold of the topre-dome models, and I'll be working on bring those up to speed as well. We have a rubber molding manufacturer that has proven to be really good with their turnaround times, and development of rubber-based products. They are the same manufacturer as the rubber feet for the M65-A and we'll be working with them in order to bring these domes together.
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Offline rabbitfire

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 24 December 2016, 12:22:19 »
Interested!  :thumb:

Online bbmathlvr

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 28 December 2016, 11:59:02 »
Filled out the form, definitely interested in trying different topre weights!
Probably TeX'ing right now.

Offline dyrdevil

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 28 December 2016, 17:33:13 »
This project is exciting; I thought I'd add an observation from a recent experiment I did: 

I bought some of the knockoff "55g" sheets from ebay and put them in my HHKB.  The feel wasn't bad, but what I didn't expect was that the sheets, or at least parts of them, seemed a touch thinner than the stock HHKB rubber sheets.  As a result, the travel was increased just enough for the top of the slider to go beneath the housing.  This produced a very loud and unwanted clacking sound on the downstroke, I believe from the bottom of the keycap striking the housing. 

I'm sure you're exploring everything in full, just wanted to recommend making the sheets thick enough!

Offline BAS1C

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 12 April 2017, 10:41:07 »
Hey Jchan, I know you are koving offices etc and have lots on the go, but curious if this is still getting worked on and if there are any updates from recent months?

Offline arninja21

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 13 April 2017, 13:02:51 »
I hope this materializes.
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 April 2017, 13:06:00 by arninja21 »
  

Offline tameone

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 13 April 2017, 19:02:31 »
Seems like this and the hhkb mods got put on hold for other more immediate projects. Hopefully now that he's moved offices, XDA, camping, m65a, etc group buys are nearing completion, attention will be given back to the topre projects.
           

Offline midnight2903

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 14 April 2017, 08:44:21 »
One can only wait. The topre game has always been like that, waiting.

Offline Vadurr

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 14 April 2017, 10:30:32 »
Definitely would love to see this come back to life!

Offline madhias

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #47 on: Sat, 15 April 2017, 03:05:07 »
Filled out the interest check form!
... ...

Offline Burt Macklin

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #48 on: Sat, 15 April 2017, 04:06:20 »
Yeah, I did too.
Somehow missed the IC when it was posted  :eek:

Offline SICAR187

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Re: [IC] Topre Dome Replacements
« Reply #49 on: Sat, 15 April 2017, 23:43:16 »
+1

Filled in form :thumb: