Author Topic: R4 Zealio Switch/Zeal60RGB/Zealencio Silencing Clips/Transparent Screw-in Stabs!  (Read 129828 times)

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Offline dorf

  • Posts: 144
  • divine creator
I saw a post about this on MassDrop as well, but I've been experiencing issues with the screw-in stabilizer wire popping loose when removing keycaps (both lubed and unlubed stabilizers). Would be nice to get the fit a little tighter, if possible, to avoid that issue. It can be really hard to reinstall the wire if it slides away.

Currently investigating the issue with Gateron. I personally haven't encountered it with my builds, but it may be due to the slightly tighter inserts with certain keycaps. Right now the best solution would be to pinch the horizontal stem a tiny bit once or twice. It should make keycap removal easier without accidentally pulling the wire out.

If it helps with your investigation, it happened to me on Cherry MX Silent stems and Aristotle stems, both in Zealios housings, with DSA and Cherry profile (GMK) keycaps.

I thought it was just a random fluke, but it happened to me too.  Using R4 stabilizers, I was actually disassembling a board that I messed up and the wire came loose from the enter key while removing the keycap.  I thought maybe I had just not seated it properly.  It wasn't a big deal b/c I was already in the process of taking it apart.

So this happens when you remove caps and stab inserts sort of cling on to to the cap and the wire leave the inserts?

Offline tkim

  • Posts: 33
  • Location: Sydney, Australia
Well after testing, I just redownloaded the firmware from ZealPC and the new version worked, thanks for the help  :thumb:


Online pixelpusher

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I saw a post about this on MassDrop as well, but I've been experiencing issues with the screw-in stabilizer wire popping loose when removing keycaps (both lubed and unlubed stabilizers). Would be nice to get the fit a little tighter, if possible, to avoid that issue. It can be really hard to reinstall the wire if it slides away.

Currently investigating the issue with Gateron. I personally haven't encountered it with my builds, but it may be due to the slightly tighter inserts with certain keycaps. Right now the best solution would be to pinch the horizontal stem a tiny bit once or twice. It should make keycap removal easier without accidentally pulling the wire out.

If it helps with your investigation, it happened to me on Cherry MX Silent stems and Aristotle stems, both in Zealios housings, with DSA and Cherry profile (GMK) keycaps.

I thought it was just a random fluke, but it happened to me too.  Using R4 stabilizers, I was actually disassembling a board that I messed up and the wire came loose from the enter key while removing the keycap.  I thought maybe I had just not seated it properly.  It wasn't a big deal b/c I was already in the process of taking it apart.

So this happens when you remove caps and stab inserts sort of cling on to to the cap and the wire leave the inserts?

Yes, that's it exactly.  Mine only came out on one side
:)

Offline johuu

  • Posts: 96
  • Location: Germany
Will there be a separate thread for R5?

Offline eksuen

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Offline Tom_Kazansky

  • Posts: 238
  • Location: Vietnam
  • Oblivion Knight
I have not put the switches on a board yet, only test on hand, here is a quick review:

- Zealio Switch:  67g, crisp, feel like tactile of clicky switch (gateron blue), I'm satisfied   :))

- Zealencio:
+ on Zealio: they're working as they should  :thumb:
+ on Gateron Blue: (maybe it's just me) I think the clicky sound is better,
the reason maybe the bottom-out noise is reduced by the silencing clip, making the clicky sound clearer  :D
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clarke

Offline dorf

  • Posts: 144
  • divine creator
I saw a post about this on MassDrop as well, but I've been experiencing issues with the screw-in stabilizer wire popping loose when removing keycaps (both lubed and unlubed stabilizers). Would be nice to get the fit a little tighter, if possible, to avoid that issue. It can be really hard to reinstall the wire if it slides away.

Currently investigating the issue with Gateron. I personally haven't encountered it with my builds, but it may be due to the slightly tighter inserts with certain keycaps. Right now the best solution would be to pinch the horizontal stem a tiny bit once or twice. It should make keycap removal easier without accidentally pulling the wire out.

If it helps with your investigation, it happened to me on Cherry MX Silent stems and Aristotle stems, both in Zealios housings, with DSA and Cherry profile (GMK) keycaps.

I thought it was just a random fluke, but it happened to me too.  Using R4 stabilizers, I was actually disassembling a board that I messed up and the wire came loose from the enter key while removing the keycap.  I thought maybe I had just not seated it properly.  It wasn't a big deal b/c I was already in the process of taking it apart.

So this happens when you remove caps and stab inserts sort of cling on to to the cap and the wire leave the inserts?

Yes, that's it exactly.  Mine only came out on one side

I can confirm that this happens and if you have a plate it's a PITA to correct it. What happens is the wire will jump out of the "clip" on the side which then leads to that it jumps out of the stabilizer insert. This is when you remove caps and especially on space.

Offline Brammm87

  • Posts: 475
  • Location: Belgium
http://imgur.com/a/2fpal

Build log of my zeal60.
pls gief bbv2

Offline TheNamesTy45

  • Posts: 264
  • Location: Morrisville, NC
http://imgur.com/a/2fpal

Build log of my zeal60.

Absolutely beautiful board and great build log!! Thanks for sharing!

Offline Slash Emperor

  • Posts: 314
  • Location: Boston, MA
Quick (read:dumb) question about programming the Zeal60. I read the programming guide on Zeal's site, but I was wondering if there are any visual keymaps of the layouts in the .bat files? Specifically the Zeal60_keymap_Poker2_ansi (mainly for the backlighting controls/settings and other FN layer stuff) and the Zeal60_keymap_zealpc batch files? I'm an idiot and awful with the software stuff/programming for keyboards, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Offline Wilba

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http://imgur.com/a/2fpal

Build log of my zeal60.

Awesome. Nail file FTW. Though I am surprised that it didn't fit a case from Leandre, since he sells GON NeRD 60 which is the same dimensions and has same USB protrusion as the Zeal60.

Offline Wilba

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Quick (read:dumb) question about programming the Zeal60. I read the programming guide on Zeal's site, but I was wondering if there are any visual keymaps of the layouts in the .bat files? Specifically the Zeal60_keymap_Poker2_ansi (mainly for the backlighting controls/settings and other FN layer stuff) and the Zeal60_keymap_zealpc batch files? I'm an idiot and awful with the software stuff/programming for keyboards, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you open the .bat file in a text editor (like Notepad or Notepad++), the keymaps match the physical position of the keys, albeit squished together into a grid and not showing their horizontal postition and widths.

The readme.txt shows the default setup for controlling backlight etc. Basically, hold down Fn1 and Fn2 to get "layer 3" where the backlight control functions are located. You just need to remember which keys are used for Fn1 and Fn2. For the Poker2 layout, they will be in the right-Win and right-Menu key positions (between right-Alt and right-Ctrl on a "standard" Poker2 style layout).

Eventually, I will write a GUI-based configuration app for people to use... the .bat files are a quick-and-dirty solution that's better than recompiling QMK when you want to change layouts, but isn't that user-friendly. However, I've been flat out designing the Zeal65 PCB and the 65% custom case, and haven't had enough time to write the GUI-based configuration app.



Offline Slash Emperor

  • Posts: 314
  • Location: Boston, MA
Quick (read:dumb) question about programming the Zeal60. I read the programming guide on Zeal's site, but I was wondering if there are any visual keymaps of the layouts in the .bat files? Specifically the Zeal60_keymap_Poker2_ansi (mainly for the backlighting controls/settings and other FN layer stuff) and the Zeal60_keymap_zealpc batch files? I'm an idiot and awful with the software stuff/programming for keyboards, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

If you open the .bat file in a text editor (like Notepad or Notepad++), the keymaps match the physical position of the keys, albeit squished together into a grid and not showing their horizontal postition and widths.

The readme.txt shows the default setup for controlling backlight etc. Basically, hold down Fn1 and Fn2 to get "layer 3" where the backlight control functions are located. You just need to remember which keys are used for Fn1 and Fn2. For the Poker2 layout, they will be in the right-Win and right-Menu key positions (between right-Alt and right-Ctrl on a "standard" Poker2 style layout).

Eventually, I will write a GUI-based configuration app for people to use... the .bat files are a quick-and-dirty solution that's better than recompiling QMK when you want to change layouts, but isn't that user-friendly. However, I've been flat out designing the Zeal65 PCB and the 65% custom case, and haven't had enough time to write the GUI-based configuration app.

Thank you very much, that was extremely helpful! I'm on The Poker2 layout for now and just tried the FN1+FN2 and got the backlighting to work. Since I didn't know how to do it on Poker2 before, I had changed to the ZealPC keymap .bat file before if I wanted to see lights (admittedly quite a jank solution on my end).

I've been keeping my hype stoked for that Zeal65.

Offline FoC_Tow

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I saw a post about this on MassDrop as well, but I've been experiencing issues with the screw-in stabilizer wire popping loose when removing keycaps (both lubed and unlubed stabilizers). Would be nice to get the fit a little tighter, if possible, to avoid that issue. It can be really hard to reinstall the wire if it slides away.

Currently investigating the issue with Gateron. I personally haven't encountered it with my builds, but it may be due to the slightly tighter inserts with certain keycaps. Right now the best solution would be to pinch the horizontal stem a tiny bit once or twice. It should make keycap removal easier without accidentally pulling the wire out.

If it helps with your investigation, it happened to me on Cherry MX Silent stems and Aristotle stems, both in Zealios housings, with DSA and Cherry profile (GMK) keycaps.

I thought it was just a random fluke, but it happened to me too.  Using R4 stabilizers, I was actually disassembling a board that I messed up and the wire came loose from the enter key while removing the keycap.  I thought maybe I had just not seated it properly.  It wasn't a big deal b/c I was already in the process of taking it apart.

So this happens when you remove caps and stab inserts sort of cling on to to the cap and the wire leave the inserts?

Yes, that's it exactly.  Mine only came out on one side

I can confirm that this happens and if you have a plate it's a PITA to correct it. What happens is the wire will jump out of the "clip" on the side which then leads to that it jumps out of the stabilizer insert. This is when you remove caps and especially on space.

This sound really bad actually, to the point where I'm considering using cherry instead of r5 stabs as planned for upcoming builds.

Having a stabilizer pop is rather serious, and I don't want to risk having to deal with desoldering

Offline asgeirtj

  • Posts: 512
  • Location: Iceland
Can confirm, the wire pops out, when changing keycaps, now I have to desolder my rs96 all over YAY
Leopold FC900 w/ 67g Purple Zealios - Silver Duck Octagon w/ 62 Purple Zealios

Offline Yuuki

  • Posts: 91
  • Location: France
I can confirm this too as it happened to me.

I did put the wire back, without removing the mounting plate, but I think I was lucky

Offline odd

  • Posts: 237
Does anyone know when R2 Zeal60 is going to ship? I have not seen any est ship dates and I bought another one on Massdrop and was totally sure I would get the R2 from Zeal first since Massdrop takes a million years to ship but I got the Massdrop one first and still have found no info on R2 shipping from Zeal, thanks all.

Offline Skuloth

  • Posts: 524
  • Location: Minneapolis MN
Does anyone know when R2 Zeal60 is going to ship? I have not seen any est ship dates and I bought another one on Massdrop and was totally sure I would get the R2 from Zeal first since Massdrop takes a million years to ship but I got the Massdrop one first and still have found no info on R2 shipping from Zeal, thanks all.

A week or two ago Zeal mentioned that he had received the pcbs and the majority did not meet his quality expectations, so hes having them reproduced.

Estimate was around the end of may iirc.
Planck w/ Zealios

Offline Zeal

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    • Zeal PC
Does anyone know when R2 Zeal60 is going to ship? I have not seen any est ship dates and I bought another one on Massdrop and was totally sure I would get the R2 from Zeal first since Massdrop takes a million years to ship but I got the Massdrop one first and still have found no info on R2 shipping from Zeal, thanks all.

Updates for the R5 GB are on the front page, second post. A more elaborate response was posted here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=87337.msg2405516#msg2405516
In short, large majority of PCBs had scratches that had to be rejected and remade. Current ETA is mid June.
        "Bird have wing, bird will fly. Henry had wings.  Henry now fly." -Sent

Offline TelFiRE

  • Posts: 185
  • Location: Littleton, CO
My R6s are on their way already, nice, thank you :D
KBD75 GMK Terminal          XD84 DSA Black on GSF + Hana Matcha + Serum

Offline Cotay

  • Posts: 153
  • Location: California
169921-0
R4 is pretty much complete. Shipped remaining orders ~51 boxes yesterday afternoon. Only outstanding orders are those combining lustro/holding to return from holidays.

Show Image


Lots of pizzas were sent via DHL.

Zeal or all,

Is it possible to get to get the split backspace and right shift + fn all lit up? Doesn't seem like my LB5 lights up or LD8 when R-Shift is soldered (JD7A)

I'll keep poking around on it but if you know anything, that would be awesome :)

Thanks

Have you flashed the board to the proper HHKB.bat layout? The firmware will disable certain LEDs depending on which layout you've chosen. The default rainbow cycling mode you received lights up the "FN" key and HHKB`~ key prior to jumping, so those were confirmed fully functional.

I have not. I was about to do that :) I'll update in soon.

Edit: Never used flip on any of my programmable boards before so I'm just sifting through the dark with my eyes closed :p

Edit2: Got it up an running. Thanks for that little tip. After looking at that stuff and the commands for split backspace etc it became self explanatory :) thanks again all for the help.

Bonus pics :) Zeal60 PCB, R4 78g Zealios (which feel stronger than R2 + 80g springs), WKL B.face case -- Side note for anyone going this route: you will have to shave the case down to fit the transparent stabilizers through the pcb mount slots so that the two acrylic pieces will sit flush on the pcb.

http://imgur.com/a/h1kPH



Glad everything turned out well. :)

Yeah, unfortunately layered acrylic cases are designed to hug the PCB as close as possible, leaving insufficient clearance for the screw in stabs. A bit of small filing fixes the issue though. Didn't have any GON/WKL cases, so I couldn't test the clearance. Regular top mounted boards/tray style cases aren't an issue.

I'm running into the same problem with the LD8 LED not working. I have it jumped on JD7A for a 1.75u RShift and 1u FN.  When I desolder JD7A, LD8 starts glowing (albeit flickering).

My keys are working fine, so I've got those programmed properly. I'm at a loss since I've changed the config file to read "#define USE_SPLIT_RIGHT_SHIFT 1". Anything I'm missing?


Offline Wilba

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I'm running into the same problem with the LD8 LED not working. I have it jumped on JD7A for a 1.75u RShift and 1u FN.  When I desolder JD7A, LD8 starts glowing (albeit flickering).

My keys are working fine, so I've got those programmed properly. I'm at a loss since I've changed the config file to read "#define USE_SPLIT_RIGHT_SHIFT 1". Anything I'm missing?

The settings for the LEDs are stored in EEPROM and can be changed without programming new firmware, using the zeal60.exe and the .bat files. The values in the config.h are just the defaults for when there's nothing in the EEPROM yet. So if you are changing config.h, it sounds like you're building QMK yourself and not using the zeal60.exe/.bat files to program new layouts. Is this correct? If not, just follow the instructions, use FLIP to program the supplied zeal60_default.hex and use the .bat files to both set keymaps and set LED options.

If you ARE a power user and want to build your own QMK firmware etc. then you should clear the EEPROM so changes to the backlight settings (like USE_SPLIT_RIGHT_SHIFT) have a chance to be saved to EEPROM. Hold down Space+Esc keys when you power on (connect USB), this will kick in bootloader AND clear the EEPROM so your custom firmware will overwrite the existing EEPROM settings.



Offline Cotay

  • Posts: 153
  • Location: California

I'm running into the same problem with the LD8 LED not working. I have it jumped on JD7A for a 1.75u RShift and 1u FN.  When I desolder JD7A, LD8 starts glowing (albeit flickering).

My keys are working fine, so I've got those programmed properly. I'm at a loss since I've changed the config file to read "#define USE_SPLIT_RIGHT_SHIFT 1". Anything I'm missing?

The settings for the LEDs are stored in EEPROM and can be changed without programming new firmware, using the zeal60.exe and the .bat files. The values in the config.h are just the defaults for when there's nothing in the EEPROM yet. So if you are changing config.h, it sounds like you're building QMK yourself and not using the zeal60.exe/.bat files to program new layouts. Is this correct? If not, just follow the instructions, use FLIP to program the supplied zeal60_default.hex and use the .bat files to both set keymaps and set LED options.

If you ARE a power user and want to build your own QMK firmware etc. then you should clear the EEPROM so changes to the backlight settings (like USE_SPLIT_RIGHT_SHIFT) have a chance to be saved to EEPROM. Hold down Space+Esc keys when you power on (connect USB), this will kick in bootloader AND clear the EEPROM so your custom firmware will overwrite the existing EEPROM settings.

You are awesome!  I was indeed building my own QMK and it didn't occur to me that it might be the EEPROM. Your explanation is excellent! I'll see if the .bat file route works first...then I'll think about further customization.

EDIT: That did it. Thanks again!
« Last Edit: Sat, 03 June 2017, 03:24:04 by Cotay »

Offline Wilba

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    • wilba.tech

I'm running into the same problem with the LD8 LED not working. I have it jumped on JD7A for a 1.75u RShift and 1u FN.  When I desolder JD7A, LD8 starts glowing (albeit flickering).

My keys are working fine, so I've got those programmed properly. I'm at a loss since I've changed the config file to read "#define USE_SPLIT_RIGHT_SHIFT 1". Anything I'm missing?

The settings for the LEDs are stored in EEPROM and can be changed without programming new firmware, using the zeal60.exe and the .bat files. The values in the config.h are just the defaults for when there's nothing in the EEPROM yet. So if you are changing config.h, it sounds like you're building QMK yourself and not using the zeal60.exe/.bat files to program new layouts. Is this correct? If not, just follow the instructions, use FLIP to program the supplied zeal60_default.hex and use the .bat files to both set keymaps and set LED options.

If you ARE a power user and want to build your own QMK firmware etc. then you should clear the EEPROM so changes to the backlight settings (like USE_SPLIT_RIGHT_SHIFT) have a chance to be saved to EEPROM. Hold down Space+Esc keys when you power on (connect USB), this will kick in bootloader AND clear the EEPROM so your custom firmware will overwrite the existing EEPROM settings.

You are awesome!  I was indeed building my own QMK and it didn't occur to me that it might be the EEPROM. Your explanation is excellent! I'll see if the .bat file route works first...then I'll think about further customization.

EDIT: That did it. Thanks again!

Cool.

Note that what I said also applies to keymaps... if you've programmed keymaps via the .bat files, they're stored in EEPROM and will override what gets compiled into the firmware. The Space+Esc on boot will clear the keymaps in EEPROM as well.

Unfortunately, it's a bit too hard to make the firmware "know" that it's been replaced with a new firmware that was built with different settings, keymaps, etc. (Well, it's not THAT hard, just messy and would waste valuable EEPROM for a feature only useful for power users).

Offline le_wraith

  • Posts: 85
  • Location: San Francisco
Does anyone know which, if any, high-end custom boards the Zeal60 RGB is compatible with? Thanks in advance for any info.

Offline Atredl

  • Posts: 752
  • Location: SoCal
Does anyone know which, if any, high-end custom boards the Zeal60 RGB is compatible with? Thanks in advance for any info.
You could use it with the E6-V2 that is currently in the GB stage right now. There are probably others but that's the first one that comes to my mind.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=90787.0

Offline childofthehorn

  • Posts: 189
  • Location: Dallas, TX
Hey Folks,

I am having a problem with my Zeal60 R3 from the Massdrop buy that I just finished building (with full soldered Holtites no less).
3 E D X

^ None of those keys work. all things look fine on the back of the PCB and the switches are working, regardless of config. I haven't tested the diodes yet, but wondering if anyone else had this problem and/or knows what the issue is. I even recompiled everything to make sure, so yeah....

Right now, I am guessing that I have a bad diode in there somewhere as that is a curios place to "go bad" so sequentially and I do have plenty of smd diodes to handle if needed.

Offline iamtootallforthis

  • Something a lot Funnier
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Hey Folks,

I am having a problem with my Zeal60 R3 from the Massdrop buy that I just finished building (with full soldered Holtites no less).
3 E D X

^ None of those keys work. all things look fine on the back of the PCB and the switches are working, regardless of config. I haven't tested the diodes yet, but wondering if anyone else had this problem and/or knows what the issue is. I even recompiled everything to make sure, so yeah....

Right now, I am guessing that I have a bad diode in there somewhere as that is a curios place to "go bad" so sequentially and I do have plenty of smd diodes to handle if needed.

Reflow the diodes first.

Offline Skuloth

  • Posts: 524
  • Location: Minneapolis MN
Hey Folks,

I am having a problem with my Zeal60 R3 from the Massdrop buy that I just finished building (with full soldered Holtites no less).
3 E D X

^ None of those keys work. all things look fine on the back of the PCB and the switches are working, regardless of config. I haven't tested the diodes yet, but wondering if anyone else had this problem and/or knows what the issue is. I even recompiled everything to make sure, so yeah....

Right now, I am guessing that I have a bad diode in there somewhere as that is a curios place to "go bad" so sequentially and I do have plenty of smd diodes to handle if needed.

I had similar issues with my round 2, but it was because the holtites were not seated correctly.
Planck w/ Zealios

Offline Wilba

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  • Custom Keyboard Designer
    • wilba.tech
Hey Folks,

I am having a problem with my Zeal60 R3 from the Massdrop buy that I just finished building (with full soldered Holtites no less).
3 E D X

^ None of those keys work. all things look fine on the back of the PCB and the switches are working, regardless of config. I haven't tested the diodes yet, but wondering if anyone else had this problem and/or knows what the issue is. I even recompiled everything to make sure, so yeah....

Right now, I am guessing that I have a bad diode in there somewhere as that is a curios place to "go bad" so sequentially and I do have plenty of smd diodes to handle if needed.

Reflow the diodes first.

It's obvious there's an issue with the switch matrix column, which is irrelevant to the diodes.

Contact me via PM and I can help you troubleshoot.

Offline childofthehorn

  • Posts: 189
  • Location: Dallas, TX
Hey Folks,

I am having a problem with my Zeal60 R3 from the Massdrop buy that I just finished building (with full soldered Holtites no less).
3 E D X

^ None of those keys work. all things look fine on the back of the PCB and the switches are working, regardless of config. I haven't tested the diodes yet, but wondering if anyone else had this problem and/or knows what the issue is. I even recompiled everything to make sure, so yeah....

Right now, I am guessing that I have a bad diode in there somewhere as that is a curios place to "go bad" so sequentially and I do have plenty of smd diodes to handle if needed.

Reflow the diodes first.

It's obvious there's an issue with the switch matrix column, which is irrelevant to the diodes.

Contact me via PM and I can help you troubleshoot.

PM Sent. would prefer not to get out the logic analyzer or scope if possible. #vacation

Offline childofthehorn

  • Posts: 189
  • Location: Dallas, TX



It's obvious there's an issue with the switch matrix column, which is irrelevant to the diodes.

Contact me via PM and I can help you troubleshoot.

Reflowed all the chips, despite them looking good with no visible bridges. Turns out there was too much solder hidden at the back of chips and the column was 10ohm to ground. Drawing out the chips and re-doing the solder (braid + new solder), cleaning with alcohol, and reflashing made everything happy. Seen this before and not uncommon out of the oven or just with how new or saturated the paste used was, no fault here.

Thanks to Wilba for some technical details which made it easier to debug! Not to mention, amazing customer service!
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