Author Topic: qrowdbuy.com  (Read 1476 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online henz

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1262
  • What?
qrowdbuy.com
« on: Tue, 24 October 2017, 04:40:33 »
www.qrowdbuy.com

Ive launched a small site which im hoping will help to improve our groupbuy experience. It works like this:

One or more individuals seek to buy something which are generally considered too expensive to buy in a store. So they decide to call the manufacturer to see what prices they can get at greater quantities.

First step
The organizer Calls the manufacturer, to ask for quotes for certain prices,quantities and lead times. For example:

If you buy 10 shirts, you pay 100$ per shirt
If you buy 20 shirts, you pay 90$ per shirt
If you buy 30 shirts, you pay 80$ per shirt
If you buy 10 pair of shoes, you pay 90$ per pair of shoes
If you buy 20 pair of shoes, you pay 80$ per pair of shoes
If you buy 30 pair of shoes, you pay 70$ per pair of shoes
Will take 3 months to fullfill after order.


Second step
The organizer creates the products in qrowdbuy he intends to sell and ship, when all products have been created and all information has been provided, the organizer can create a Interest check which will be open to the public, the public can then provide a hint to the organizer if his product(s) will be popular enough.

Third step
When the Interest has peaked to the interest numbers requested, the organizer unlocks the option to create a Buy. Now for a buy to happen, it must reach the MOQ, which have been provided by the organizer. The buy is active under a certain period, where people are able to commit to buy the products. When the buy period finnishes, its participants are bound to pay using PayPal. The organizer will send out to the users paypal addresses. After everyone has paid, the organizer places a order to the manfucturer.

Fourth step
The organizer receives all the buys products, the organizer is then bound to distribute the products to the buys participants.


All steps descrbed in the description is how the software works. I am open to letting some groupbuy organizers try this out, if you would be interested.

Right now im just putting myself out there :)

There are some things in the pipes which i will start working on shortly:
  • Shipping calculator
  • Automatic invoicing to buy participants
Amongst other things.

As this is basically the first time for me launching anything, this site is bound to have some bugs :), please be kind and report the bugs if you find any.

Lets have an open discussion, id love to get me some feedback :)

x post from the MST forum.

Offline donutcat

  • Posts: 213
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • Big boards need love too
    • Donut Cables
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 26 October 2017, 21:52:14 »
So, I'm not completely certain I understand the purpose of this. It looks like it's supposed to function as both the IC page and the GB page for a GB put together, maybe? I'm not sure if it would offer a whole lot to anyone that can already run a GB through their own store page, but it could be useful for anyone that doesn't.

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1555
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 30 October 2017, 07:52:00 »
For a product like this, worst case scenarios would matter, as for the product to succeed, you need to be improving the worst cases

Massdrop does this well for example, they roughly mend losses when they happen

Also the site is down

You have my support tho, I would use it if it was already available, it would be nice if you handled payments to manufacturers yourself, and potentially shipping etc. too
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline Signature

  • master of puppers
  • Posts: 1003
  • Location: Sweden
  • Retired doggo, RIP Loki <3
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 30 October 2017, 07:58:20 »
I'd recommend you apply for vendorship, but seems like a good idea.
If you are looking for a 356 mini v1 (the rare one), PM me.
Daily dog pic newsletter
EU Soldering Service

Online henz

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1262
  • What?
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 30 October 2017, 08:48:05 »
Thanks alot guys for the helping words.

For a product like this, worst case scenarios would matter, as for the product to succeed, you need to be improving the worst cases

Massdrop does this well for example, they roughly mend losses when they happen

Also the site is down

You have my support tho, I would use it if it was already available, it would be nice if you handled payments to manufacturers yourself, and potentially shipping etc. too

Ive been going on and off about handling the organizers funds, its a bit of a hole right there, for example, lets say i pay the manufacturer and send the merchendise to the organizer, which just runs off with them without fulfilling its promise, this just holds me accountable. So if im handling funds, i must handle shipping too, either by using a shipping centre or handling it myself(which i cant do atm), i think ive considered most scenarios.
But right now it feels best to let the organizer handle everything, and the application will help its day to day work easier(say invoicing, handling requests, whatever makes it easier for the organizer). Then in the near future, offer shipping help, say by a shipping center. But for the future its definetly possible.

Site was down, not sure why, had to just get it up because im at work, ill do some more troubleshooting when i get home.

So, I'm not completely certain I understand the purpose of this. It looks like it's supposed to function as both the IC page and the GB page for a GB put together, maybe? I'm not sure if it would offer a whole lot to anyone that can already run a GB through their own store page, but it could be useful for anyone that doesn't.

You are correct, this targets organizers and groupbuy joiners, but mostly organizers and to help them with the stuff which are boring/hard/time consuming,(invoicing, information spreading etc. Conclusion whats included in the gb etc.)

I'd recommend you apply for vendorship, but seems like a good idea.

Ive already registered a company its called qrowdbuy :) Thanks



PS.

To anyone who is interested in trying out the flow and give feedback Please register yourself at the site and send me a pm here/email me : hans@qrowdbuy.com



Online henz

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1262
  • What?
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 30 October 2017, 14:36:37 »
someone kept killing my apache2 server, should be fixed.

Offline redbanshee

  • actually Dade Murphy
  • Posts: 350
  • Location: The Gibson
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 30 October 2017, 15:30:02 »
Your process sounds interesting (site is down) and could work accept your going to have to work on how exactly you collect the money. Paypal does not allow money collection in the format you are attempting here. You need to be able to work as a payment processor (delayed payments) look at this site:

https://www.trycelery.com/


The features they offer would be helpful to review and implement into your GB gateway. The biggest obstacle is accepting Paypal in a way that wont bite you in the rear later.

Online henz

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1262
  • What?
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 30 October 2017, 15:56:33 »
Your process sounds interesting (site is down) and could work accept your going to have to work on how exactly you collect the money. Paypal does not allow money collection in the format you are attempting here. You need to be able to work as a payment processor (delayed payments) look at this site:

https://www.trycelery.com/


The features they offer would be helpful to review and implement into your GB gateway. The biggest obstacle is accepting Paypal in a way that wont bite you in the rear later.

thanks for the info!

About the server, im still trying to fix it. Redirect keeps dropping. Can be reached directly from https://www.qrowdbuy.com

Online avid

  • Posts: 502
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 30 October 2017, 16:34:13 »
This should maybe be in the general section, rather then in GB, since there is no GB going on.

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1555
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 30 October 2017, 16:53:48 »
The reason Massdrop sucks so hard (speculation) is probably because they outsource their shipping, otherwise, if they suck so hard if their shipping infrastructure was in-house all along, they super suck, as pretty much everything they send is damaged

My point is, you could cut a deal with a shipping handler like Shipito.com, pay them to divide a large order, and let them ship it individually, I never had them damage anything for example (actually I had some damaged wheels, but I think USPS or Fedex damaged them)

Anyway, it's still a fantasy, I don't think you could easily handle customs, it's a challenging task

As a solid advice, Hong Kong could be ideal for such a venture, as HK Post is pretty affordable, and HK is an ideal country on paper for customs and taxes, in practice, things might differ tho
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Online henz

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1262
  • What?
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 31 October 2017, 06:40:05 »
Your process sounds interesting (site is down) and could work accept your going to have to work on how exactly you collect the money. Paypal does not allow money collection in the format you are attempting here. You need to be able to work as a payment processor (delayed payments) look at this site:

https://www.trycelery.com/


The features they offer would be helpful to review and implement into your GB gateway. The biggest obstacle is accepting Paypal in a way that wont bite you in the rear later.

I registered on the site. This looks interesting, there is just one issue with it, its that its api does not offer to create and modify products, this must be done manually(from what i can tell) so creating a product in qrowdbuy has to be done again in celery.

i sent a issue in the github repo and ask if the functionality is in the pipeline.


As for using paypal, surely i must be able to do something like ebay does? create items based on the groupbuy information send it out to each and every participant upon ending the GB stage? When the organizer recieves the money he/she can then create the order to the vendor. Small problem here with taxes and shipping, but by saying that the organizer is solely resonsible for the buy, im simply letting the organizer choose what he charges its  joiners. But a shipping calculator is in the pipeline as well(have not started yet :( )

As my time is limited having a family and a normal job, ill try doing the most prioritized items first, like the automatic invoicing. I think im getting another dev on board soon but there is a learning curve, so have to spend some time edjucating him :)


The reason Massdrop sucks so hard (speculation) is probably because they outsource their shipping, otherwise, if they suck so hard if their shipping infrastructure was in-house all along, they super suck, as pretty much everything they send is damaged

My point is, you could cut a deal with a shipping handler like Shipito.com, pay them to divide a large order, and let them ship it individually, I never had them damage anything for example (actually I had some damaged wheels, but I think USPS or Fedex damaged them)

Anyway, it's still a fantasy, I don't think you could easily handle customs, it's a challenging task

As a solid advice, Hong Kong could be ideal for such a venture, as HK Post is pretty affordable, and HK is an ideal country on paper for customs and taxes, in practice, things might differ tho

The nice thing is that you can send it without paying customs and tax, Participants can do that upon arrival. For example, i live in sweden, if i buy something from a webpage in the US, the vendor can choose to let you pay for taxes and customs upon purchase, or not, and then i have to pay a bill for these costs in order to get the item. I think this is how it works but cant say for certain as i dont know enough.

On the other hand, when i want to get paid for the service, say a cost for each completed buy, then i have to take into consideration getting taxes properly accounted for each country where the billed users are from.

But it might not be that far into the future. It sounds plausible anyways. As long im able to get some support to get this thing rolling.


Also, i was able to get the redirect to work, WOHO!

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1555
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 31 October 2017, 12:16:49 »
The challenge is importing items into your country of operation

For example, let's say you choose to base the operation in US, the items are coming from Germany, at that point, you are importing them from Germany to US, that part is challenging

Customer's import routines are secondary
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Online henz

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1262
  • What?
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 02 November 2017, 06:38:38 »
The challenge is importing items into your country of operation

For example, let's say you choose to base the operation in US, the items are coming from Germany, at that point, you are importing them from Germany to US, that part is challenging

Customer's import routines are secondary

true dat. This should be of great improtance, as i live in sweden and have a clue how importing works here id be trying to run some things from here to begin with.


I have yet to find someone who would like tro try to run the GB off the platform, any takers? Or any tips would be much appriciated.

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 3385
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 02 November 2017, 07:13:28 »
Going to break down the post and give my thoughts.

One or more individuals seek to buy something which are generally considered too expensive to buy in a store. So they decide to call the manufacturer to see what prices they can get at greater quantities.

I think this is just an example, but it kind of presents itself as being only for pre-made items, so users designing custom things couldn't use the platform. If it's a buy, say for Cherry MX switches, it would be a useful place to do it as the GB runner really doesn't have to do too much. There are problems though.

First step
The organizer Calls the manufacturer, to ask for quotes for certain prices,quantities and lead times. For example:

If you buy 10 shirts, you pay 100$ per shirt
If you buy 20 shirts, you pay 90$ per shirt
If you buy 30 shirts, you pay 80$ per shirt
If you buy 10 pair of shoes, you pay 90$ per pair of shoes
If you buy 20 pair of shoes, you pay 80$ per pair of shoes
If you buy 30 pair of shoes, you pay 70$ per pair of shoes
Will take 3 months to fullfill after order.

Second step
The organizer creates the products in qrowdbuy he intends to sell and ship, when all products have been created and all information has been provided, the organizer can create a Interest check which will be open to the public, the public can then provide a hint to the organizer if his product(s) will be popular enough.

Third step
When the Interest has peaked to the interest numbers requested, the organizer unlocks the option to create a Buy. Now for a buy to happen, it must reach the MOQ, which have been provided by the organizer. The buy is active under a certain period, where people are able to commit to buy the products. When the buy period finnishes, its participants are bound to pay using PayPal. The organizer will send out to the users paypal addresses. After everyone has paid, the organizer places a order to the manfucturer.

Fourth step
The organizer receives all the buys products, the organizer is then bound to distribute the products to the buys participants.

This just explains what a group buy is, so not really worth commenting on any of this.

All steps descrbed in the description is how the software works. I am open to letting some groupbuy organizers try this out, if you would be interested.

I personally don't think software/a website is required for these type of buys. I'm not sure what the aim of the site is if you can't either handle the buys yourself at users requests, or have any repercussion against runners that host a bad buy (but what's stopping them from running more buys somewhere else? [nothing]).

There are some things in the pipes which i will start working on shortly:
  • Shipping calculator
  • Automatic invoicing to buy participants
Amongst other things.

These two things seem to, for me personally, be the only advantage. The runner still would have to do all the work of talking to the manufacturer, promoting, and shipping.

Overall, there just isn't much to comment on. To be of use to group buy runners, I think qrowdbuy would have to organize everything, and people just present ideas/do the IC. Otherwise it's just another platform like geekhack or reddit.

Edit:

Found the following on the website:
Quote
PayPal has something called Buyers protection, which inclines that buyers can file a dispute to a organizer if the organizer has not fulfilled the buy before 6 months of time. So therfore there is a must that a buy can not take more than 6 months to fulfill after the buy period has ended.

There is a massive problem with this: you can't really predict whether a buy will run longer than 6 months. Any decent person will re-invoice coming up to the 6 month mark.

Online henz

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1262
  • What?
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 02 November 2017, 14:39:30 »
First of all, thanks for taking the time to read through everything and giving constructive feedback.

One or more individuals seek to buy something which are generally considered too expensive to buy in a store. So they decide to call the manufacturer to see what prices they can get at greater quantities.

This i will fix. Im not a native english speaker, ill take all the help i can get :)


All steps descrbed in the description is how the software works. I am open to letting some groupbuy organizers try this out, if you would be interested.

I personally don't think software/a website is required for these type of buys. I'm not sure what the aim of the site is if you can't either handle the buys yourself at users requests, or have any repercussion against runners that host a bad buy (but what's stopping them from running more buys somewhere else? [nothing]).

So the aim of the site is basically, what you mentioned secondly, With a proper legal department and proper financial channels(in the future). There will be repercussions and the users who participated should get their money back. Which is the most important thing.

There are some things in the pipes which i will start working on shortly:
  • Shipping calculator
  • Automatic invoicing to buy participants
Amongst other things.

These two things seem to, for me personally, be the only advantage. The runner still would have to do all the work of talking to the manufacturer, promoting, and shipping.

Take you, a renowned keyboardmake at this point, makes a cool keyboard, wants to share it with the community, you decide your capacity is 30 keyboards, and you have 50 peeps waiting for you to start the GB, and so you do and thats fine. You have your audience set, but say Eric, has a gmk colorway Idea, and wants to realise it. He knows how to run a GB. and he wants to reach out to alot of people. Which would be the main beneficiary. Think Ebay but with groupbuys(Atleast my aspirations).

* An option to choose how much orders you can handle.
* In the future, a shipping and sorting program to help organizers with shipping.(If i develop this, or try to look somewhere else. i have not thought of this yet)
* the promoting should be done by the company. Marketing will one of the most important tasks for the company.

I think the organizer should take care of the most vital parts of the groupbuy, stuff like developing their idea with the manufacturer. qualty control of the finnished product(when applicable). This is what makes the groupbuy great. The organizers drive to create a good product is what matters.

As for the advantages, even the silghtest help to make the buy easier should be a selling point for any organizer, and if there are things which can help the organizers even further then im open sugestions. Take google forms for instance, almost every organizer here uses it because it helps the organizer to reach its goal easier(and hopefully faster.)

But the main advantage will be(i hope) reaching out to the general public. Which has not set foot in a specific forum like this to maybe buy a gmk set or something else which cannot be bought in a general store. I know of people who has for example found out about massdrop and bought gmk sets to their mechanical keyboards, because it looks nice.

Id like to switch the thought process to the following: What do you need in order to feel that this software should be usable.

Quote
Quote
PayPal has something called Buyers protection, which inclines that buyers can file a dispute to a organizer if the organizer has not fulfilled the buy before 6 months of time. So therfore there is a must that a buy can not take more than 6 months to fulfill after the buy period has ended.

There is a massive problem with this: you can't really predict whether a buy will run longer than 6 months. Any decent person will re-invoice coming up to the 6 month mark.

I get this, but i gotta start somewhere. PayPal protection is something that the general can relate too, when i have a better alternative i can implement that. Maybe to sway the rules to allow a groupbuy to pass the 6 months line, with a warning to its particpants that their paypal protection is running out. And with an option to ask for re-invoice.

Offline donutcat

  • Posts: 213
  • Location: Shelby, NC
  • Big boards need love too
    • Donut Cables
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 03 November 2017, 19:56:19 »
So, some more of my thoughts on this as someone who has run a GB.

The idea is pretty good, but I think the execution really needs to be on point to be better than what small GB runners currently have available.

I ran my first few GBs, both big and small, with Google forms. The ordering experience is super easy and customize-able to the GB runner's needs, and not invoicing until after the GB period is done solves the issue of delaying payments. The drawbacks to this system are that you most likely need to use semi-flat shipping costs since you can't easily calculate them on the fly, and mass invoicing can be someone annoying.

I'm currently running GBs off a store page on my website running WooCommerce. This allows a good deal of customization and fairly streamlined ordering experience, you have the ability to automatically calculate your shipping costs with a plugin, you can even run the items as "preorder" items with delayed invoicing with another plugin, which I haven't implemented yet myself, and you have the option to use more plugins to handle labels and shipping or just stick with PayPals labeling and shipping management. The downside to this is that you need hosting and to sink some time into setting up a website(or know someone super awesome that does most of the "heavy lifting" for you).

Additionally, you have running GB on "the forums", reddit, GH, DT. I do this in addition to the other methods as a way to "advertise" my GBs, but some people run their GBs solely on the forums with very simple Google forms. Forums are good for getting information out and answering questions directly, but you don't have a lot of control or customization vs the other methods.


If what you're trying to set up solves the issues present with the other methods, then I think it'd be good, otherwise it's not really contributing anything to the options that GB runners have. The ability to give people a "store page" from which to run their GB like anyone that runs through their own store would be the best case scenario imo, though it might not be the route you're intending to go. This gives them the most control, the most options, and gives them access to payment options. The problem I see is if it's even possible to allow people to setup their own little "minishops" with stuff like woocommerce and plugin access, and most importantly payment access.


So, I think the overall idea is a good one, but my thoughts on the matter are that creating something like this that would just sit alongside the other options without fixing any of their problems isn't really adding anything to GB runner options and isn't productive. If you are able to fix the problems that the other options have, that would be great, but from what I'm reading so far I don't think you are just yet.

Online henz

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 1262
  • What?
Re: qrowdbuy.com
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 15 November 2017, 15:20:46 »
The ability to give people a "store page" from which to run their GB like anyone that runs through their own store would be the best case scenario imo.

This is exactly what it is today and part of the idea. Right now, when you register, and apply for a seller account, you get your own space, where you can create products which you can include in interests, when reaching the interest quote you'd be able to run the interest(make it a buy).  Then whenever you want to rerun it, you can edit the interest as you like, the products too. Everything is fully editable and dynamic at all times.

So, some more of my thoughts on this as someone who has run a GB.

The idea is pretty good, but I think the execution really needs to be on point to be better than what small GB runners currently have available.

I ran my first few GBs, both big and small, with Google forms. The ordering experience is super easy and customize-able to the GB runner's needs, and not invoicing until after the GB period is done solves the issue of delaying payments. The drawbacks to this system are that you most likely need to use semi-flat shipping costs since you can't easily calculate them on the fly, and mass invoicing can be someone annoying.

I'm currently running GBs off a store page on my website running WooCommerce. This allows a good deal of customization and fairly streamlined ordering experience, you have the ability to automatically calculate your shipping costs with a plugin, you can even run the items as "preorder" items with delayed invoicing with another plugin, which I haven't implemented yet myself, and you have the option to use more plugins to handle labels and shipping or just stick with PayPals labeling and shipping management. The downside to this is that you need hosting and to sink some time into setting up a website(or know someone super awesome that does most of the "heavy lifting" for you).

Additionally, you have running GB on "the forums", reddit, GH, DT. I do this in addition to the other methods as a way to "advertise" my GBs, but some people run their GBs solely on the forums with very simple Google forms. Forums are good for getting information out and answering questions directly, but you don't have a lot of control or customization vs the other methods.


If what you're trying to set up solves the issues present with the other methods, then I think it'd be good, otherwise it's not really contributing anything to the options that GB runners have. The ability to give people a "store page" from which to run their GB like anyone that runs through their own store would be the best case scenario imo, though it might not be the route you're intending to go. This gives them the most control, the most options, and gives them access to payment options. The problem I see is if it's even possible to allow people to setup their own little "minishops" with stuff like woocommerce and plugin access, and most importantly payment access.


So, I think the overall idea is a good one, but my thoughts on the matter are that creating something like this that would just sit alongside the other options without fixing any of their problems isn't really adding anything to GB runner options and isn't productive. If you are able to fix the problems that the other options have, that would be great, but from what I'm reading so far I don't think you are just yet.


Thanks alot for your input, some of the things you are mentioning, we are already working on, like the delayed payments. What i wrote about at the top eliminates the google forms. And my ambition is that this would be a living page for us, like say for example : Alot of people request that qrowdbuy should have a an option to use a shipping service, wed try our best to get it set up as fast as possible. I know for a fact i cant get this right from the beginning whitout getting feedback and constantly reworking the concepts.