Author Topic: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord  (Read 4612 times)

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Offline Rayoui

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #50 on: Tue, 17 January 2017, 20:51:18 »
I can't think of a situation that would require me to press down 6+ keys at the same time. NKRO is a nice thing to have I guess, but I certainly wouldn't overlook a board just because it has 6kro.

As far as 1000hz, I doubt anyone can feel the difference. Objectively, I'd say it does give some improvement to latency, however small.

Mice are a different story. I know I can certainly feel the difference between different sensors and 125hz/1000Hz polling rates. But that's a whole different conversation.  :p
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Online OfTheWild

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 18 January 2017, 01:36:16 »
.. oh and also, dont make the spacebar difficult to swap like Corsair and Leopold did. Stick with standard 6.25 or 7 and standard stabilizer spacing.  >:D
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Offline Tom_Kazansky

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 18 January 2017, 01:56:11 »
.. oh and also, dont make the spacebar difficult to swap like Corsair and Leopold did. Stick with standard 6.25 or 7 and standard stabilizer spacing.  >:D

haha, I feel like 1.5 - 1 - 1.5 - 6 - 1.5 - 1 - 1 - 1.5 bottom row is the "standard" for gaming board.

----
off topic:
@LogiSly, does Logitech have any plans for a new MMO mouse? I mean something like the G502, I really like the extra buttons in the left primary button.
the Steelseries Rival 500 has these extra buttons and one extra button on the right primary button, but somehow I don't feel like buying from Steelseries:'( 
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Offline keytohopiness

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #53 on: Wed, 18 January 2017, 12:48:35 »
Quote
I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord

I always test my typing accuracy.

 :))

Offline ArchDill

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #54 on: Wed, 18 January 2017, 12:56:27 »
Hello,

I'm a designer from Logitech. I have a question to the Gamers community :)

What would you do/use to compare different Gaming (mechanical) keyboards performance, on top of doing a typing test. Is there an online Game or any sort of performance online test Gamers are using to test and compare between each others how good or bad is their keyboards? There are plenty of typing tests available online but, but what about gaming test, where may be you use the WASD and space keys to see if the keyboard is good for gaming?

Thanks for answer!
LogiSly

Honestly, this is probably the wrong place to ask that question. I would look into r/pcmasterrace or something like that.

Online chuckdee

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #55 on: Thu, 19 January 2017, 12:05:28 »
Hello,

I'm a designer from Logitech. I have a question to the Gamers community :)

What would you do/use to compare different Gaming (mechanical) keyboards performance, on top of doing a typing test. Is there an online Game or any sort of performance online test Gamers are using to test and compare between each others how good or bad is their keyboards? There are plenty of typing tests available online but, but what about gaming test, where may be you use the WASD and space keys to see if the keyboard is good for gaming?

Thanks for answer!
LogiSly

Honestly, this is probably the wrong place to ask that question. I would look into r/pcmasterrace or something like that.

Just curious... why would you say that?
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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #56 on: Thu, 19 January 2017, 13:55:36 »
Hello,

I'm a designer from Logitech. I have a question to the Gamers community :)

What would you do/use to compare different Gaming (mechanical) keyboards performance, on top of doing a typing test. Is there an online Game or any sort of performance online test Gamers are using to test and compare between each others how good or bad is their keyboards? There are plenty of typing tests available online but, but what about gaming test, where may be you use the WASD and space keys to see if the keyboard is good for gaming?

Thanks for answer!
LogiSly

Honestly, this is probably the wrong place to ask that question. I would look into r/pcmasterrace or something like that.

Hahhahaahhaha....

Don't say that Archdill..  Adults by hype-keyboards too..

Offline ArchDill

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 20 January 2017, 00:01:56 »
Hello,

I'm a designer from Logitech. I have a question to the Gamers community :)

What would you do/use to compare different Gaming (mechanical) keyboards performance, on top of doing a typing test. Is there an online Game or any sort of performance online test Gamers are using to test and compare between each others how good or bad is their keyboards? There are plenty of typing tests available online but, but what about gaming test, where may be you use the WASD and space keys to see if the keyboard is good for gaming?

Thanks for answer!
LogiSly

Honestly, this is probably the wrong place to ask that question. I would look into r/pcmasterrace or something like that.

Hahhahaahhaha....

Don't say that Archdill..  Adults by hype-keyboards too..

Carry on then... haha

Online OfTheWild

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 20 January 2017, 01:57:19 »
well i mean honestly, we're keyboard people yes.. but the demographic is hardcore gamers right? Just because they like mechanical keyboards and there is definitely some overlap, what might sell well to gamers might not be considered choice by us.

I see your point, Arch.
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Offline YoungMichael88

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 20 January 2017, 02:20:18 »
I personally find most stock keyboards need a keycap set swapped in right away. A quality switch can feel like complete garbage when low quality keycaps are used. No pad printed caps. No low quality painted windowed caps. Just use thick double shot keys and include extra textured or rubber topped gamer set keys for WASD, QWER etc. But include standard non rubberized or textured caps for that too. Always use a plate and make it heavy. As far as aesthetics go, do whatever sells and appeals to gamers. Even if it is tacky and an eyesore. Consumers are weird. Especially those who don't really know too much about mechanical keyboards. If the people want something that "stands out" and looks like a damn spaceship, then so be it.
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Offline Findecanor

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #60 on: Fri, 20 January 2017, 04:51:55 »
Oh.. BTW, Many people (who are more into keyboards than the average Joe) have test-phrases that they try to type fast on a new keyboard that they are trying out.
If it can be typed fast on the keyboard without any errors and without feeling weird then it would be a good keyboard to type on.
... And if it isn't a good keyboard to type on, then it is probably not a good keyboard for gaming either.

For why should you get a keyboard only for gaming, that sucks for typing? Then you would need to have two keyboards on the desk. Nobody does that.
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Online chuckdee

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 20 January 2017, 08:43:03 »
Oh.. BTW, Many people (who are more into keyboards than the average Joe) have test-phrases that they try to type fast on a new keyboard that they are trying out.
If it can be typed fast on the keyboard without any errors and without feeling weird then it would be a good keyboard to type on.
... And if it isn't a good keyboard to type on, then it is probably not a good keyboard for gaming either.

For why should you get a keyboard only for gaming, that sucks for typing? Then you would need to have two keyboards on the desk. Nobody does that.

There are as many different people as there are configurations under the sun.  I have multiple computers and multiple locations.  And the keyboards at those different locations and on those different computers are tailored to the need.
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Offline y11971alex

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #62 on: Tue, 07 March 2017, 05:46:00 »
This just shows is that we should revert to punched card input, where each card is treated as a level 0 interrupt with no latency whatsoever.
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Offline TheNamesTy45

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 07 March 2017, 20:58:51 »
I don't know what makes a better "gaming board". I appreciate solid components used as an enthusiast, but as a gamer, I could really care less. I used a range from a rubber dome Bluetooth board to a board with mx Green switches to my modded Ducky board with Gateron reds for gaming. Played about the same. Mouse made a huge difference, but after a good sensor, it came down to the subjective feel.

The ONLY thing I found that made a noticeable difference for me in game was the form factor. For gaming, give me 60%. Less keyboard for the mouse to smash into if I'm trying to look to the left rapidly. Curious to see if Logitech would entertain the idea of a 60% mechanical board.

For everyday typing... A whole different list of things I like and don't like pop up for me, but for gaming, my needs are simple.

Offline orpheo

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #64 on: Tue, 07 March 2017, 21:26:08 »
Logitech should be very grateful to all the feedback they got here!

Easy advice to you Logitech. Gamers keyboards look like child batmobile toys.. Gamers are adult now, at least those here who can sink good money into a simple keyboard!

For an attractive keyboard, integrate good wireless solution, a customisable touch bar with screen tracking on what game/program is used. Make it with lots of keys customisable easily!
Use cherry mx switch, in standard ainsi and ISO layout for swapping the keycaps which I'm sure will never be as nice as Cherries/GMK.
Use nice material like aluminum. Tenkeyless, 60keys or full size.
Produce a tenkeypad with touch screen....

Ya just go in a war room with some high experienced keyboardists here that you pay, and brainstorm the **** of of this!

Offline MasterBash

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #65 on: Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:20:29 »
I really love what Logitech has done with the G Pro keyboard. It seems awesome. The addition of a detachable cable is definitely nice.

I do wish to see 2 more "options" in a similar keyboards : Wireless with the same technology as Logitech's G403 and G900 and also linear Romer-G switches.

Those are of course my personal opinions.

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #66 on: Fri, 10 March 2017, 15:26:10 »
I really love what Logitech has done with the G Pro keyboard. It seems awesome. The addition of a detachable cable is definitely nice.

I do wish to see 2 more "options" in a similar keyboards : Wireless with the same technology as Logitech's G403 and G900 and also linear Romer-G switches.

Those are of course my personal opinions.


The romer g is definitely an innovation..  but the rest of it is just an ordinary ansi keyboard.

Offline MasterBash

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #67 on: Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:03:14 »
I really love what Logitech has done with the G Pro keyboard. It seems awesome. The addition of a detachable cable is definitely nice.

I do wish to see 2 more "options" in a similar keyboards : Wireless with the same technology as Logitech's G403 and G900 and also linear Romer-G switches.

Those are of course my personal opinions.


The romer g is definitely an innovation..  but the rest of it is just an ordinary ansi keyboard.

And thats exactly what people want. Not something like the G910/G410. Small, minimalist look, TKL. Its a huge improvement over the G910/G410 when it comes to the design.

Its not a softwareless fully programmable keyboard, but we won't see that from Logitech or other big companies, because that would be deemed to hard to use for the average consumers.
« Last Edit: Fri, 10 March 2017, 16:06:17 by MasterBash »

Offline kasakka

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #68 on: Sun, 12 March 2017, 10:13:53 »
As much I would like it, I don't see Logitech making smaller form factor keyboards, but they could make more ergonomic ones with some tenting to the keys etc like the MS Natural keyboards.

I recently tried a new Logitech model with the Romer Gs and they felt fine but the keycaps did not. I felt they were form over function in the way they were shaped.

Offline justinmtype

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #69 on: Sun, 12 March 2017, 11:20:07 »
New keys have gotten better.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #70 on: Sun, 12 March 2017, 12:12:49 »
Check out the G810 and its tenkeyless variant, the "G Pro".
Those have the same Romer-G switches but keycaps in regular shapes. The same style as the G610 that have Cherry MX switches.
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Offline Rayoui

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #71 on: Sun, 12 March 2017, 21:00:07 »
It's hard to tell from pictures online, but it looks like the G Pro has double-shot keycaps rather than the painted ones from the G810. Definitely a step in the right direction. I also noticed that some of their advertising points out reductions in latency due to optimizations in the controller and it made me wonder if any of these changes were influenced by the discussions in this thread.

I like that Logitech takes the suggestions of their customers seriously when designing and improving their products. It seems few companies do this nowadays.
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Offline MasterBash

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #72 on: Sun, 12 March 2017, 23:45:40 »
I am wondering the same. :P

However, I hope they make a wireless version of it in the future. I travel quite a bit with my PC... Weight isn't an issue to me and although it is easy to plug everything in the back of the computer, it gets annoying when you travel a lot. If I can just plug in the power cords/monitor and be done with it, then that would be awesome. There is also an issue with distance when I use my PC plugged into my TV and I am sitting on the couch.

Offline quasistellar

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #73 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 11:50:28 »
wow they actually made a "normal" TKL with Romer-G.  I'm going to have to check one out.  The extra bulk on the G410 drives me crazy.

Offline Keycap

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #74 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 12:12:48 »
It matters entirely on preference. Might not be the answer you're looking for, but it's the truth. Most "gamer keyboards" try to look better than others by bragging highly insignificant features like a higher actuation point, RGB lighting, stuff like that. A really good keyboard would be one that has not too many gimmicks, a fair amount of choice for switch type, decent looking keycaps (try and avoid the edgy, gamer-ish fonts PLEASE), decent pricing and a standard layout. The amount of gaming keyboards with a non-standard bottom row is quite alarming, and it really drives away those who want to replace the keycaps.. which is a very large portion of the mechanical keyboard community.

Hope this helps.

Offline davkol

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #75 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 12:14:28 »
Do you realize that the (self-proclaimed) Logitech representative hasn't been active for over two months?

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #76 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 15:16:51 »
Do you realize that the (self-proclaimed) Logitech representative hasn't been active for over two months?

I've been face palming since page one..

hahahahahahaha

These dumb kids.


IDK if you guys remember wall-ball..

Basically when the cool kids leave,  everyone else leaves,  because wall-ball is fking dumb.. and the only reason to be there was to interact with the cool kids..

hahahaha

Offline Bucake

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #77 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 15:21:33 »
Do you realize that the (self-proclaimed) Logitech representative hasn't been active for over two months?

it was very obvious. does that first post read anything like one from a logitech rep? not even close.
also, there's absolutely no way they would do "research" this way. lol.
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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #78 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 15:28:10 »
Do you realize that the (self-proclaimed) Logitech representative hasn't been active for over two months?

it was very obvious. does that first post read anything like one from a logitech rep? not even close.
also, there's absolutely no way they would do "research" this way. lol.

oh hmmm.. didn't even consider this..  new conspiracy.

Offline davkol

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #79 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 15:49:06 »
So, what about yet another Ripster's sockpuppet account?

Offline justinmtype

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #80 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 16:09:44 »
Why was Ripster banned?  Always been curious.

Offline davkol

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 16:14:00 »
Why was Ripster banned?  Always been curious.
That's beating a dead horse…

https://www.google.com/?q=why+was+ripster+banned+site:geekhack.org

tl;dr for trying to break the forums (all spamming and stuff aside)

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #82 on: Mon, 27 March 2017, 20:24:00 »
Why was Ripster banned?  Always been curious.
That's beating a dead horse…

https://www.google.com/?q=why+was+ripster+banned+site:geekhack.org

tl;dr for trying to break the forums (all spamming and stuff aside)


Ripster was banned because he didn't agree with the moderation team.. He is our hero who refused to roll over.

Given that he was a major contributor to Geekhack in the first place,  he vowed revenge.

After Ripster was banned,  he paid a hacker to destroy geekhack,  Lots of --forum content-- was lost in the process..


Ripster is not perfect, but it was the fault of the moderation team's hubris that made the situation as bad as it was.


From the third person perspective,  It was mostly not ripster's fault..   The mods were too full of themselves believing that a couple of clicks meant power.. hahahaha..



Forum users are not files you can just delete..   you might think that, but if that person is crazy enough,  you can't win..  because it is so easy to break something on the internet..


This is especially true of nonprofit web forums , because they're not hardened targets, and they do not have the resources should an attack come..


For example.. it takes LOTS more man hours to rebuild geekhack,  than it is to pay a russian hacker to screw with it.

Offline MasterBash

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #83 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 03:50:52 »
Do you realize that the (self-proclaimed) Logitech representative hasn't been active for over two months?

it was very obvious. does that first post read anything like one from a logitech rep? not even close.
also, there's absolutely no way they would do "research" this way. lol.

I thought the same. However, there was absolutely no harm replying to the guy that proclaimed to be from Logitech.

I also bought the Pro Keyboard and I must say I really love it compared to my G410. It is way more stable, quieter and the minimalistic design is cool. I just wish the spacebar would be as quieter the other keys, but that seems to be a problem with pretty much all keyboards out there.Keys don't wobble, which is nice.

Offline Rayoui

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 04:12:40 »
Do you realize that the (self-proclaimed) Logitech representative hasn't been active for over two months?

it was very obvious. does that first post read anything like one from a logitech rep? not even close.
also, there's absolutely no way they would do "research" this way. lol.

I thought the same. However, there was absolutely no harm replying to the guy that proclaimed to be from Logitech.

I also bought the Pro Keyboard and I must say I really love it compared to my G410. It is way more stable, quieter and the minimalistic design is cool. I just wish the spacebar would be as quieter the other keys, but that seems to be a problem with pretty much all keyboards out there.Keys don't wobble, which is nice.

How do the keycaps feel? Are they double-shot or still painted like the other Romer G boards?
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Offline justinmtype

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #85 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 09:36:43 »
Why was Ripster banned?  Always been curious.
That's beating a dead horse…

https://www.google.com/?q=why+was+ripster+banned+site:geekhack.org

tl;dr for trying to break the forums (all spamming and stuff aside)


Ripster was banned because he didn't agree with the moderation team.. He is our hero who refused to roll over.

Given that he was a major contributor to Geekhack in the first place,  he vowed revenge.

After Ripster was banned,  he paid a hacker to destroy geekhack,  Lots of --forum content-- was lost in the process..


Ripster is not perfect, but it was the fault of the moderation team's hubris that made the situation as bad as it was.


From the third person perspective,  It was mostly not ripster's fault..   The mods were too full of themselves believing that a couple of clicks meant power.. hahahaha..



Forum users are not files you can just delete..   you might think that, but if that person is crazy enough,  you can't win..  because it is so easy to break something on the internet..


This is especially true of nonprofit web forums , because they're not hardened targets, and they do not have the resources should an attack come..


For example.. it takes LOTS more man hours to rebuild geekhack,  than it is to pay a russian hacker to screw with it.

Wow!

Thanks.

Offline davkol

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #86 on: Tue, 28 March 2017, 10:45:24 »


Offline saxophone

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Re: I'm from Logitech: What to use to test a Gaming keybaord
« Reply #88 on: Wed, 29 March 2017, 16:32:26 »
Things to take into consideration:

Since we're talking about mechanical keyboards I'll assume it's for the gaming brand products. A large portion of the mech keyboard community are typists so I'd take anything mentioned with a grain of salt.

Forexample: I'd never bother with kailh brows, or beamspring or 65+g switches for games. Finger fatigue. Good for typing but not games.
I overly prefer switches with high actuation points and low total movement distance, even going as far as using o-rings just to reduce max move length before bottoming out on keypresses. Things like that are loathed upon by some people.

Also I think it's already been understood by logitech people at this point, don't make overly gaudy chassis designs. It's dumb and people don't like it. Don't use nonstandard layouts or keycaps, people like to be able to change keycaps.

Also gaming stuff:
Mount the space bar in reverse. Space tends to be used a lot in any genre besides RTS. With reversed spacebar the thumb rests against the flat sloped side of the bar rather than against the edge.
Make SPILL PROOF designs. That includes having gap in the frame to allow excess liquids to spill out on the side alternatively use frameless elevated keys designs.
Make the keyboard heavy, include a plate. This has nothing to do with the quality but self proclaimed "keyboard" experts will insist that the keyboard feels more "solid" as a positive feature.
RGB rakes in the money but please make the backlight either white or blue on non RGB but backlit products as one is neutral and the other fits with lots of other desktop stuff that typically has a blue light as power indicator.
Have dedicated light for caps/num/scroll lock, don't make use of leds below the actual keys. That feels cheap.
"gamers" love dedicated media buttons for unknown reasons, don't make those as hotkeys from key-combos, add them as extra buttons on top or something.

Measurable parts of "keyboard quality" brings up 2 things: Consistency and speed.
Consistency means how consistent keys are. All keys should preferably feel the same ie. actuate at the same height and require the same pressure to actuate.
Speed means how fast it takes for the signal to register. People generally never pay attention to this, and higher actuation point saves more time than the few milliseconds from optimized architecture. The other thing is debounce. You want as short debounce as possible, which is of course limited mechanical debounce that comes with the switch design, unless if something like optics or magnets are used.

:e oh no its a necro thread barrf
« Last Edit: Wed, 29 March 2017, 16:34:09 by saxophone »