Author Topic: Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod  (Read 79995 times)

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Offline JohnElliott

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #150 on: Sat, 25 September 2010, 11:26:03 »
Quote from: Daniel Beaver;226529
Those switches under the alt keys? They do not return any scan codes. At all. In fact, they are the only switches on the board that do not return scan codes.


Odd. I'm sure when I had my AT F board in pieces, I tested those positions, and got codes 19h and 39h (which translate to 71h and 72h) out of them.

Offline Daniel Beaver

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #151 on: Sat, 25 September 2010, 11:57:39 »
Quote
did you connect the keyboard to the computer you were testing the keyboard with directly to a PS/2 or AT port, or did you use a USB adapter? USB adapters can sometimes drop certain non-standard scancodes.
I was using a USB-to-PS/2 adapter, but it returned scan-codes just fine on every other "non-standard" position. Maybe those positions are different for some reason.

In any case, I hope I'm doing something wrong, since I really want to use those positions for alt keys. The Model F AT layout would be greatly improved if adjacent alt keys could be used. I may crack open my board again and try it with a direct-to-PS/2 connection. I can also try out the multimeter just to see what goes where.

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Offline Daniel Beaver

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #152 on: Sat, 25 September 2010, 12:16:06 »
Hot damn, ch_123 is right! The do work if you plug them directly into the PS/2 port.

*maniacal laughing and the sound of dremel on metal follows*


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Offline Daniel Beaver

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #153 on: Sat, 25 September 2010, 14:22:51 »
Success. I used a dremel to open up the alt key slots a bit, and used hot glue to hold them in place. I replaced the spacebar stem with a normal stem, and it fits perfectly without modification. The fit within the case is very tight - I ended up cutting away some of the alt keycaps to keep them from binding against the spacebar. Works perfectly now.




I used paperclips to make guides for the spacebar stabilizers, and hot-glued them to the board. Seems to work just as well as real stabilizers.



Yes, the plate on my board is very corroded. Thankfully, that doesn't affect performance.

My poor brand-new Filco sits in a corner, unused.

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Offline ch_123

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #154 on: Sat, 25 September 2010, 14:50:53 »
Corrosion is usually quite common those AT Model Fs. As you say, it doesn't make a lot of difference.

Offline elbowglue

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #155 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 21:31:26 »
Quote from: Daniel Beaver;226708

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Offline HaaTa

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #156 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 22:28:10 »
Nice work!

Maybe someday I'll do the same. :D
Kiibohd

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Offline Daniel Beaver

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« Reply #157 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 22:47:40 »
Quote from: HaaTa;227477
Maybe someday I'll do the same. :D

You should. It may be intimidating to cut up a Model F, but everything about this mod is easily reversible. And the best part: instead of a keyboard with awesome switches and an odd layout, you get a keyboard with awesome switches and a standard layout. Well, about as standard as a Model F can be.

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Offline ricercar

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #158 on: Mon, 27 September 2010, 23:59:09 »
Quote from: Daniel Beaver;226529
Those switches under the alt keys? They do not return any scan codes. At all. In fact, they are the only switches on the board that do not return scan codes.

Consider jumpers from the no-code pads to the normal ALT pads. I jumper boards all the time to use existing pads in way the PCB designer never dreamed.

EDIT Nevermind. Didn't finish the thread before posting.
I trolled Geekhack and all I got was an eponymous SPOS.

Offline Sam

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #159 on: Sat, 02 October 2010, 20:57:17 »
Quote from: Daniel Beaver;226708
Success. I used a dremel to open up the alt key slots a bit, and used hot glue to hold them in place. I replaced the spacebar stem with a normal stem, and it fits perfectly without modification. The fit within the case is very tight - I ended up cutting away some of the alt keycaps to keep them from binding against the spacebar. Works perfectly now.


Wow, what a great mod.  I'm in need of using a right-Alt key regularly, so this mod giving me both Alt keys near the space bar might be perfect.  Thanks for all the information about this!

Offline Soarer

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #160 on: Sat, 06 November 2010, 13:55:54 »
I'm in the process of modding my UK layout AT model F. So far I've added keys at each end of the space bar and put in some extra hammers. Just the space bar stablizer bits still to do... and then of course remappings.

So I thought I'd list here the scancodes generated by each extra pad, as read by Windows using a native PS/2 port:

code - USB code - description - location
0x57 - 44  - F11 - lower pad under keypad '+'
0x70 - 88 - Int'l 2 (Katakana/Hiragana) - right hand pad under Left Shift
0x71 - n/a - VK_OEM_RESET - left hand pad under Space
0x72 - n/a - unassigned - right hand pad under Space
0x73 - 87 - Int'l 1 (Ro) - left hand pad under Right Shift
0x74 - n/a - unassigned - left hand pad under Enter
0x75 - n/a - unassigned - upper pad under Enter
0x7C - n/a - do not use - left hand pad under Insert

The USB codes and descriptions are (mostly*) taken from a Microsoft document called "USB HID to PS/2 Scan Code Translation Table". For those keys that have USB codes, some PS/2 to USB converters use them, others ignore them. All the converters I have (except for the blue cube) ignore the keys that have no USB code. The blue cube helpfully remaps 0x75 to 0x2B (the code for the key left of backspace), so that's perfect if you're only planning to do the big backspace mod as per the article.

Going by that, I expect that no standard PS/2 to USB converter will pass all the codes through, so I plan to make my own...

(* VK_OEM_RESET is a virtual key definition taken from a Windows header file)
« Last Edit: Sat, 06 November 2010, 13:59:24 by Soarer »

Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #161 on: Sat, 06 November 2010, 19:20:07 »
Thanks, I have those written down somewhere, but I never did get around to posting them on Geek Hack.
Kiibohd

ALWAYS looking for cool and interesting switches
I take requests for making keyboard converters (i.e. *old keyboard* to USB).

Offline JBert

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #162 on: Sun, 07 November 2010, 06:27:15 »
Quote from: Soarer;243454
So I thought I'd list here the scancodes generated by each extra pad, as read by Windows using a native PS/2 port:
Thanks for that, I've added a link to your post in the conclusion of the article.
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Offline bettablue

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #163 on: Tue, 08 February 2011, 22:02:05 »
This whole thing looks too easy.  So, I don't misunderstand you.  Windows will see the new key assignments automattically?  Is it because the keyboard was already mapped to that configuration at the factory somehow?  

BTW...  The pictures all came through for me.  Guess I need pretty pictures in order for me to follow directions.  Hmmm.
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Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #164 on: Wed, 09 February 2011, 00:21:52 »
Heh, "sometimes" :P

Windows Rant:
Who's the retard at Windows that decided it was sane to reinstall a driver every time to plug your device.
Kiibohd

ALWAYS looking for cool and interesting switches
I take requests for making keyboard converters (i.e. *old keyboard* to USB).

Offline HaaTa

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« Reply #165 on: Wed, 09 February 2011, 00:48:28 »
And that is the reason why I use Linux :P.
Kiibohd

ALWAYS looking for cool and interesting switches
I take requests for making keyboard converters (i.e. *old keyboard* to USB).

Offline ch_123

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #166 on: Tue, 24 May 2011, 18:53:56 »
Is there anyone who has done this who wants to send their mini backspaces my way?

Offline ironman31

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #167 on: Thu, 23 June 2011, 22:13:35 »
Just for reference, I had to use sharpkeys to change the key bindings for the |\ key when I did this mod. The new placement of the key was sending the 0x0075 scan code
Keyboards:
IBM Model M Space Saving Keyboard (Used), HHKB Pro 2 (White, Lettered), Realforce 87U all-45g in White, Filco Majestouch 2 TKL with Cherry MX Browns, Model F PC/ATNoppoo Choc Mini (MX Browns), Model F XT, IBM Model M 1397735 (bought NIB), (2) Siig Minitouch (GHSS) one with XM, one with complicated ALPs (modded),2 Dell AT101W, Cherry G80-11900HRMUS (modded with MX browns)



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Offline wcass

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Model F - Gimme back my Big Backspace Mod
« Reply #168 on: Thu, 26 April 2012, 21:10:32 »
i just finished logging what i did to update my AT - including step-by-step on adding and using the extra two pads left and right of the space bar. this mod was a lot of fun.
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=Island:25919
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