Finger Stiffness From Topre Switches

[itlnstln]

I fingered, err.. figured it out.  The stiffness is coming from disc golf.  Any stiffness I had in my left hand is pretty much gone.  I'm not too sure why I had any to begin with.  After practicing yesterday, I could feel a little soreness in my joints, and this morning they were a little stiff.

[itlnstln]

Hey, I've done that last one.  I think they call it "Beerkram Yoga."

[itlnstln]

OK, so I have been on my HHKB for a couple of months now, and my fingers still hurt (badly).  I think I am going to swap out with my Cherry for awhile and see what happens.  If I start to feel better, be on the lookout for an HHKB for sale.  It would be disappointing, too, since I really like the layout.

[itlnstln]

I wish.  It's mainly in the middle knuckles of both my right and left hands.  I can't even make a fist in the morning.  The pain is pretty bad.  I think what is happening is that I am bottoming out harder than I did on the Cherry browns, thus causing some trauma to the knuckles.  Just switching to my SPOS for the last few minutes, I can tell a big difference in the way my hands feel while typing.  Because there is still a rubber dome of sorts in the Topre switch, I still have to press the key until the dome collapses, and I cannot stop from bottoming out like I can on Cherrys.  I am going to switch to one of my Cherrys for about a week or so and see what happens.

[itlnstln]

Yeah, I hope not.  if it persists after the switch, I might just have to.

[MsKeyboard]

I have visions of you sitting back in your chair everyday, doing the Mafia style "fingers laced together, backwards knuckle cracking thing", but that is probably just my vivid imagination!
Hope it's not the KB, but better that than the Frisbee golf..........

[hyperlinked]

Emacs pinky.

Show Image

Slight quibble with this guy for me... MS did a good job on the right side of the board, but not so much on the left side. Because of the ergo angle, the modifier keys on the left side actually get farther away from your thumb. Also, the buttons appear to be much more thumb friendly than on other keyboards, but because of unusually shaped center keys, it's not as close as it may seem... better than a conventional board, but not as convient as it looks.

You won't really notice it much when you're doing normal typing, but in mousing and using left handed shortcuts at the same time, your left arm may change to a straighter angle as you shift your body weight toward the mouse as is natural when you're doing anything that requires higher precision. Think of how you distribute your body weight when you're writing. You go toward your writing hand.

[bigpook]

I suppose, but I don't feel any discomfort when I use the HHKB. I like the claw effect. : )
Trackballs and mice are a different story though.

[bigpook]

The first quote mentions

"Even worse, some users can actually continue typing with their hands in this claw like manner, with the fingers being held high over the keys like an eagle’s talons over it’s prey."

I don't type with fingers held high over the keys. I don't seem to type any differently between a HHKB or a tenkeyless, its just that on the HHKB my hands don't move as much.

But no doubt, if a keyboard is causing hand pain than it doesn't matter, time to try a different keyboard.

[Rajagra]

the modifier keys on the left side actually get farther away from your thumb.

Thumb? Do you mean you use the thumb on all the modifiers? That's good for Alt, but not so great for the others. I use my little finger for shift and control. And (try to) use my other hand to press the letter.

The HHKB is a clawing keyboard

As much as I object in theory to using one hand to do combos, I do find myself doing one-handed copy and paste quite often. And it's true, doing Fn-Left/Right/PgUp on the HHKB uses exactly the same hand shape. So anyone who does one-handed Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V should be OK with the HHKB. (Home and End are a slightly longer stretch though.)

[hyperlinked]

Thumb? Do you mean you use the thumb on all the modifiers? That's good for Alt, but not so great for the others. I use my little finger for shift and control. And (try to) use my other hand to press the letter.

The guy writing the Emacs Pinky article was specifically talking about thumbs.

Anyway, I think ItlnStln is going to have a hard time getting useful doctor advice on this until he's got a real good idea what's causing it because this is the sort of thing that's really hard to tease out with strength and flexibility tests. It's best to try some measures on your own to gather some data points before trying to get a doctor to figure out what's happening.

[kriminal]

You can wash away the image by replacing Reeves with Roseanne Barr.

That switch matrix is all wrong. This is more like it (using superheroes - more or less).

hey hey! are you saying brown cherries are ghey?

oh itlnstln does your family have a history of artrithis?
just asking..

[itlnstln]

Neither my mom or dad have arthritis, but my grandmother on my dad's side had rheumatoid arthritis.  I have had blood work done, and the rheumatoid arthritis isn't a problem for me.  I think I ought to send ripster my HHKB for awhile.  The switches in it don't feel like the ones in the Realforce.  They don't have the same soft landing, and they feel a little more rubber dome-like.

[hyperlinked]

I don't think you necessarily need to claw to use a HHKB. It's compact, but a board with full sized keys after all.

The ergo.uk article exaggerated the clawing motion a bit, but what they were warning against is basically legit, but I can simplify it a bit.

1) There are certain positions in which your joints are seriously weaker than others. It's not just a matter of physics. At different degrees of bend in your elbow, the ability of your biceps to generate force changes. The same applies to your fingers, your wrists, and so forth.

2) Clawing puts both your wrist and your fingers in weak positions and it's a double whammy because the strain compounds.

3) When you do work with your joints in weak positions, you are amplifying the work and therefore the strain. You can experience this by trying to lift weights over your head while in a slouched posture. You can't lift as much. Sloped shoulders are weaker shoulders. Sloped backs are weaker backs.

[itlnstln]

I will say one thing, I am typing a helluva lot faster on my G80-3000 than I do on the HHKB.  The browns allow me to glide a lot more over the keys than the Topres do.  I really miss the layout, though.  I still find myself pressing Caps Lock for Ctrl and \ for Backspace.

[bigpook]

I noticed a speed increase also. I actually type faster on BS keys than I do on the Topres.
I remapped my keys to emulate the HHKB, for the most part and that seems to be a good compromise.

[bigpook]

I've done that on my linux box, and added a mod key so I can get the arrow cluster working, page up/down, home and end. That pretty much makes it for me.

[AvengeR]

Could be the layout.  Are you one hand "clawing" the navigation keys?

This is why I still would prefer the HHKB3 have arrow keys.

this is why the hhkb3 thread is needed.
Ok now i know there's some discussion somewhere in the keyboard pics topic and in between of some others (like this one), but it'd useful to have it organized in one place so best case scenario PFU looks at it (and at the same time puts an optional geekhack key in recognition).

Well, the main point is I hope ItlnStln gets better despite my skepticism it is from bottoming out on those plush Topres.

I'm building the case for ItlnStln's multimillion lawsuit against PFU.  It's gonna be bigger than the McDonalds Hot Coffee lawsuit.  The threat of a lawsuit should at least give me the CHOICE of arrow keys on the HHKB3 like the Japanese have.

is there an hhkb with arrow keys?

[Rajagra]

is there an hhkb with arrow keys?

http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?t=6775