Author Topic: DOLCH PAC-6x sniffers and Cherry blues? (Read 37090 times)

Nonmouse · « **Reply #50 on:** Thu, 13 May 2010, 10:32:59 »

Quote from: itlnstln;181874

I ran XP on my abacus... *****es.

Actually this is theoretically possible- but you'd have to add a lot of extra memory, and boot time would be pretty laggy...

ch_123 · « **Reply #51 on:** Fri, 14 May 2010, 18:45:38 »

I now have two Dolch PACs (with Blue Cherry keyboards) on the way to me.

elbowglue · « **Reply #52 on:** Fri, 21 May 2010, 20:30:25 »

Here's another one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dolch-PAC-63C-Network-General-Sniffer-/290435771305?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439f522ba9

J888www · « **Reply #53 on:** Sat, 22 May 2010, 09:12:40 »

Quote from: elbowglue;185568

Here's another one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dolch-PAC-63C-Network-General-Sniffer-/290435771305?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item439f522ba9

This unit have issues which may/may not be repaired, but the good thing is that the seller confirmed he is willing to ship only the KBD, else shipping cost will be quite hefty.

ch_123 · « **Reply #54 on:** Sat, 22 May 2010, 09:14:32 »

Quote from: J888www;185694

This unit have issues which may/may not be repaired

Quote

The unit powers up and shows a "non-system disk error"

In other words, the "The seller is an idiot" error.

ch_123 · « **Reply #55 on:** Sat, 22 May 2010, 12:03:05 »

The sad thing is that there are people who want the whole deal who are in risk of having the keyboards poached off them. This is different to other keyboards because the keyboard is an intrinsic part of the Dolch (it doubles as the screen's cover) and thus buying a Dolch without the keyboard is sort of like buying a laptop with the keypad and touchpad ripped out.

Nonmouse · « **Reply #56 on:** Sat, 22 May 2010, 12:20:21 »

They use a standard form factor motherboard, don't they? Seems like it should be (relatively) easy to upgrade them to a modern system...

didjamatic · « **Reply #57 on:** Sat, 22 May 2010, 19:49:49 »

I bought a Dolche board from Ricercar and LOVE IT. This is what Cherry Blues should feel like. It's been my main driver at home since I got it from him.

ricercar · « **Reply #58 on:** Sat, 22 May 2010, 20:37:18 »

I got a HeadStart Cherry blue board, and the switches all need cleaning before they will click.

didjamatic · « **Reply #59 on:** Sat, 22 May 2010, 22:49:00 »

Ricercar, your avatars keep getting better and better. Bummer about that HeadStart.

ricercar · « **Reply #60 on:** Sun, 23 May 2010, 15:06:09 »

Quote from: didjamatic;185902

Ricercar, your avatars keep getting better and better. Bummer about that HeadStart.

Thanks.

I'm not giving up on the HeadStart. I could get all pissy or I can fix it. Or both. Fixing it without wondering 'what if' seems like the funnest path.

Findecanor · « **Reply #61 on:** Fri, 25 June 2010, 07:05:47 »

I (finally) made a cable to connect my Dolch keyboard with 4P4C ("RJ") connector to PS/2 and I'm typing away at it now. The cable is connected to the PCB inside the case with a connector, so you don't have to solder anything, just replace the cable. However, I did have to widen the hole to fit my new cable. The 4P4C pin order is: GND, +5V, data, clock.

ch_123 · « **Reply #62 on:** Sat, 26 June 2010, 05:52:17 »

From left to right or what?

Findecanor · « **Reply #63 on:** Sat, 26 June 2010, 08:18:32 »

Quote from: ch_123;196625

From left to right or what?

According to the standard convention for numbering pins on xPxC/RJ-connectors. Allow me to quote a good explanation on Wikipedia:

Quote

Holding the connector in your hand tab side down with the cable opening toward you, the pins are numbered [1-4], left to right.[...]
Show Image

BTW, when you reassemble the case, be mindful that there are two sizes of case screws. The short ones go in the front and the long ones go in the back. If you use a long one in the front, it might penetrate to far and you will get a plastic nub below the keys ...

ch_123 · « **Reply #64 on:** Sat, 26 June 2010, 08:20:51 »

Cool. Now I'll be able to make a PS/2 adapter for my keyboards.

Oqsy · « **Reply #65 on:** Thu, 12 August 2010, 01:01:51 »

I got my dolch PAC 60 today and it seems great except a "hard drive controller failed" message on boot. Boots to floppy fine, and the hard drive specs are still in CMOS. Not sure how to proceed, but it does seem possible someone opened it up, poked around to see what parts might be stripped from it, decided it wasn't worth the trouble, and reconnected the IDE cable from the HDD to the controller backwards since the older connectors allow that.

The only problem is that I don't know which orientation is "correct" without a tab, etc. I haven't had to swap one from this era to my knowlege, or if I did I got lucky and always put them back correctly.

. Please advise.

I've also been considering rebuilding it with an atom or similar mb, a nice little rig to be my equivalent if a laptop (ac power required, however unless I delve into laptop psu and batteries which doesn't really seem worth it to me).

Maybe make a cutout for a DVD-Rom, add big HD, a wireless NIC and go to town.

Oqsy · « **Reply #66 on:** Sun, 15 August 2010, 17:15:47 »

Quote from: Findecanor;196218

I (finally) made a cable to connect my Dolch keyboard with 4P4C ("RJ") connector to PS/2 and I'm typing away at it now. The cable is connected to the PCB inside the case with a connector, so you don't have to solder anything, just replace the cable. However, I did have to widen the hole to fit my new cable. The 4P4C pin order is: GND, +5V, data, clock.

Ok, I'm wanting to make a cable with female rj-11 to male ps/2 (6-pin mini din to you dorks) so that I can plug the dolch keyboard into other systems with ps/2 ports, but not change the cable out at all so that it's still in factory condition and will work in conjunction with the PAC 60 without even opening the case and changing cables.

I have a pile of PS/2 extensions, and an old 4 prong to RJ-11 female adapter housing.

<- don't use these, the jack is not compatible with Dolch's RJ-11 connector.

I realize my adapter + cable might be UGLY, but it should work perfectly electronically, and has the advantage of being able to click the rj-11 male directly into a real jack.

I know that this should be relatively simple, but my brain starts to hurt when I try to map this stuff out in my head, so I wanted someone here that understands findecanor's pinout to explain which pins need to connect to which at each stage of my plan to make it work...

I've got a multimeter and can test continuity (I have already numbered the prongs on the adapter box 1-4)

Oqsy · « **Reply #67 on:** Sun, 15 August 2010, 19:00:01 »

Nevermind, I'm pretty sure I got it. I got lucky and when I opened up that little adapter box, the RJ-11 leads ran to screw posts which corresponded with the prongs. There was a blank for another hole in the back of the housing, so I drilled it out, and ran my leads from the PS/2 extension into the housing. Screwed the corresponding ps/2 lead to the post with the RJ-11 leads. Black-taped around the entire housing except the RJ-11 jack, and it's all ready to go! Time to reboot and test this mutha out.

Oqsy · « **Reply #68 on:** Sun, 15 August 2010, 20:33:47 »

Findecanor, you mf-er... were you going left to right on the male plug, or the female jack??? I'm almost positive my stuff is all inverted. Continuity checks out as per the diagrams I posted above (with the RJ-11 MALE PLUG labeled 1-4 left to right.) If you gave the pinout of the FEMALE JACK then I'm screwed, but I'm not rewiring it until I'm sure which is correct.

Oqsy · « **Reply #69 on:** Sun, 15 August 2010, 23:12:53 »

This is what I take from consultation with dfj, kishy, and multiple readings of findecanor's post. Anyone with other interpretations, please let me know before I kill my ps/2 bus or my keyboard

Edit: By the way, stay away from that adapter I posted above. It has 4 pins, but the female jack is too large for the RJ-11 that comes on the Dolch. It just wiggles around with no contact, so I tossed it.

Findecanor · « **Reply #70 on:** Mon, 16 August 2010, 08:17:24 »

Quote from: Oqsy;212961

Findecanor, you mf-er...

I have a healthy sex life. How about you?

Quote from: Oqsy;212961

were you going left to right on the male plug, or the female jack???

Because I modified a cable, I put a new male plug on it:

pin 1: GND,
pin 2: +5V
pin 3: data
pin 4: clock

(Picture copied from Wikipedia)

Oqsy · « **Reply #71 on:** Mon, 16 August 2010, 12:18:56 »

Thanks findecanor, that answers everything. Oh and for everyone's general knowledge, these connectors are RJ-22, *not* RJ-11. RJ-22 is the 4 pin "handset" cable connector. A lot of phones with the coiled handset cables use RJ-22, but some use RJ-11. The two are not physically compatible, so use caution.

Oqsy · « **Reply #72 on:** Mon, 16 August 2010, 19:47:24 »

This seems to confirm my diagram, even though the plug pictured is from "behind", the pin outs seem copacetic. Re-splicing!

didjamatic · « **Reply #73 on:** Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:37:40 »

Great contributions guys. Dolch boards kick friggin butt, the right Ctrl+Alt being close together on these types of G80-1800 layouts let you use your thumb to do Ctrl+Alt in 1 press, and middle finger hits del just right. This was an issue I had early on with 1800 layouts because I couldn't 1 hand ctrl+alt+del but then I realized with the non-win-key models like the Dolch boards, you can do it even easier. Ctrl+alt+ins is just as easy.

Oqsy · « **Reply #74 on:** Mon, 16 August 2010, 21:50:58 »

Yep, mine is now up and running! I'm typing on it now. It's a really nice feeling board. I love the layout, the colors, the switches, the double shot key caps, and even the scooped F and J. This is one of my finer moments in vintage gear hoarding

Oqsy · « **Reply #75 on:** Sun, 22 August 2010, 01:22:22 »

Removed everything but LCD and mainboard to see how impossible a rebuild would be. The board is 21cm x 33cm. I have no idea if it's a standard if any kind. I'm mostly worried about connecting the LCD and making sure psu and exp cards will line up correctly. Any suggestions?

Edit: According to the chart at http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_form_factor?wasRedirected=true it's a baby-at board. That probably won't help me find a suitable replacement, but it's nice to know.

Half-Saint · « **Reply #76 on:** Mon, 23 August 2010, 01:35:42 »

You could modify the case and just throw a mini-ITX board in there?

Oqsy · « **Reply #77 on:** Tue, 24 August 2010, 18:40:49 »

half-saint: i *could*, but preserving as much of the original case is part of the goal. kishy and I have been brainstorming on this for a few days, and all solutions have their drawbacks.

One thing to note is that the LCD runs off of an ISA graphics card that *most likely* has a lot of the LCD functionality built into the card instead of the LCD assembly itself (like most modern LCDs) This means that to keep the LCD currently installed in the mix, I'd have to either:

1. find a suitable card for keeping it running (one small and one large ribbon cable carrying the signals) that would work on a newer form factor motherboard that would fit the case.

2. keep the ISA card and find a motherboard that will accept the ISA gfx card

3. abandon the existing LCD, and drop an extra $200 or more on a replacement for one that already works perfectly just to get around the ISA card.

There have been lots of theories and suggestions tossed around (join us on #geekhack at chat.freenode.net on your irc client, or just click the link in the very top right of this page for the webchat), and I haven't committed totally to any of them.

I will most likely start a new thread on this topic to get more input as I feel like there may be some other answers out there that I haven't considered.

Oqsy · « **Reply #78 on:** Tue, 24 August 2010, 22:41:37 »

I found this: http://www.ibasetechnology.net/mb894.html which looks promising... I would have to do some creative cable routing / exp. slot blank drilling to make the i/o stuff work out. That or drill out some sections of the case for them which was against the plan to begin with.

Anyway, I'm sure the idea of modernizing this box won't come back to bite me in the AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!

edit: nevermind, silly mistake, the board above is 24.4x24.4cm, and the smaller dimension of this case is 21.9cm. Dagnabit.

Oqsy · « **Reply #79 on:** Wed, 25 August 2010, 17:57:04 »

To keep this thread from derailing into my personal build thread, I've started a new one here specific to the issues of rebuilding the DOLCH PAC 60 as a portable modern pc. Direct all replies to that discussion there please, so this discussion can revert back to the keyboard that comes with the DOLCH PAC sniffers and the cherry blue goodness inside

gosper · « **Reply #80 on:** Wed, 08 September 2010, 17:13:35 »

A little off topic here but has anyone been able to get any flavors of linux to boot on any DOLCH PAC models?

ch_123 · « **Reply #81 on:** Wed, 08 September 2010, 17:27:49 »

I haven't tried it yet. Bear in mind that the screen is controlled by a custom PCI card. That said, Windows 2000 picked it up out of the box when I installed it, so the chipset could be common enough.

ricercar · « **Reply #82 on:** Sat, 30 October 2010, 00:03:39 »

Anyone have a RJ45 (Ethernet) pinout for a Dolch with trackpad?

ricercar · « **Reply #83 on:** Thu, 31 March 2011, 17:49:32 »

Quote from: Findecanor;196218

made a cable... pin order is: GND, +5V, data, clock.

Works for me, too

Wired an "Airlink" Dolch clone Cherry blue keyboard RJ11 to PS2. The wire colors were counter-intuitive.

+5 = Black
GND = White
Data = Yellow
Clock = Red

wanabe · « **Reply #84 on:** Thu, 31 March 2011, 17:56:25 »

I need to do this. are you guys clipping the connector and soldering a ps2 connector, or making some sort of adapter to maintain the original rj connector

ricercar · « **Reply #85 on:** Thu, 31 March 2011, 18:10:30 »

I removed the RJ11 wiring entirely, and soldered an old model M cable to the 'dolch' PCB.

Oqsy · « **Reply #86 on:** Thu, 31 March 2011, 23:54:29 »

I made a new, second cable for mine. I kept the original cable for use with the dolch unit, and wired up another one to a hacked up extension ps/2 cable with simple splices. The keyboard had a female jack for the rj connector inside the case, so swapping cables is quick and easy.

wanabe · « **Reply #87 on:** Fri, 01 April 2011, 00:22:57 »

interesting...i wish i could check it out, but i cant figure out how to crack it open. can anyone explain how to open a dolch keyboard?

wanabe · « **Reply #88 on:** Fri, 01 April 2011, 12:12:56 »

sweet - thanks!

ricercar · « **Reply #89 on:** Fri, 01 April 2011, 22:21:48 »

Kishy, you're Super Awesome Man, earning a gold star for the day. Your colors are now proven accurate/successful on a third Dolch keyboard with trackpad.

hasu · « **Reply #90 on:** Wed, 22 February 2012, 19:45:24 »

Kishy, Thanks for the great info.

I could make my adapter for PAC 64 due to your nice pic of pinouts.

News:

Author Topic: DOLCH PAC-6x sniffers and Cherry blues? (Read 37090 times)