Author Topic: Gaming keypad  (Read 15933 times)

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Offline Bucis

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Gaming keypad
« on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 08:52:04 »
Hello! Long time lurker here.
Decided to show my project, which started long time ago - back in 2012 with GuildWars2 release.
Already on the GW2 beta testing i understood, that playing this game with a keyboard is not for me, so i did start looking for something in the market, but could'n find anything that suits me. So I started my own project.

1) There is my first try to solve a problem, it was already was better than keyboard:


As electronic i did use pcb from an old xbox joystick.
WASD movement went to thumb-stick and buttons for skills could be easily reached with fingers.
But the buttons was too hard to press and it required to look at it from time to time so i could position fingers correctly. So I had to figure out something better.

2) So I made next version of it:


Now some buttons are horizontal, but some of them vertical. And now I could play without looking at the keys - fingers all the time stay in the same spots...
So this result was already great for playing with ease  ;D

3) I gave to my friends to try it out. Their feedback was very positive just had a problem with a different hand sizes so here was my try to solve that.



So I made a version which could be resized - up down, angle, and closer further away from palm-rest.
And this keypad had a custom made pcb.

4) After some years of hardcore  playing games with comfort  :cool: I noticed that for some games it was necessary to have more buttons, so here comes the upgrade  ;D



As you can see its now used quiet a bit - all dirty of heavy use and some buttons falling off.
So there is 2 more rows of buttons, which took some time to get used to, but now I can't live without them  :D
This keypad used already 2 pcb's of old joysticks to support all the keys.

5)There was lot of trial and error, designs and models, which never made out of 3d modeling software. I spent a big amount of time till found a good design, where fits all what i wanted to see in it.




6) Then we bought 3D printer, from that point things started to develop a lot faster. We could try out all ideas, see mistakes, make fast changes and try again. And did not have to wait a long time for the result:


Got rid of 2 huge joystick pcb's and started to use Teensy.
Used old perforated steel plate to play with the tower placements.

7) Now we are here, 3D printed with sanding, polishing and painting:




Added some upgrades in the firmware.
Pc can recognize it as joystick (which requires JoytoKey software to configure buttons). Some of the games don't allow joystick or JoytoKey (khem... black desert ...khem  :rolleyes:), so I made it possible to switch to keyboard setup (but this one still needs an interface software to configure buttons).
Its also possible to adjust each tower for finger length and angle, same on a thumb-stick. Also add diodes too see which mode is on and possibility to dim them if they feel too bright. But there still are some work to do to make it perfect :)
« Last Edit: Sat, 09 June 2018, 13:40:38 by Bucis »

Offline AMongoose

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 08:59:22 »
VERY impressive.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 09:49:13 »
Looks awesome

Offline MatchstickMan

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 11:14:00 »
This is incredible!

The row of switches just above the main cluster, are those intended to be pressed with your knuckle or how does that work? I imagine that's how the overhanging switches work, right?

The ergonomics board has a sticky for interesting "Making Stuff..." projects. I think they'd like that a lot!

Online BlindAssassin111

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 11:17:00 »
That is awesome, definitely a well thought out piece. :thumb:

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 11:58:09 »
Pressing buttons with tip of the finger. There is a video:
Sorry for no sound, baby crying in background ;)

Online mudcakehoney

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 12:15:28 »
It looks like it came from the dark mind of a genius

Offline MatchstickMan

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 12:58:30 »
Ah, thanks for the video!

Personally, I would want it more like a glove, which probably kills the second row switches, but bringing the hanging switches down so to press them is to just lift your knuckle up. I think it's how far your fingers extend to press the switches that gets me.

This is really awesome though! I love seeing unorthodox stuff like this!

Offline TomBodet

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 13:02:49 »
What are you using for the thumbstick?

I've been dreaming of something and it turns out you made it right here.  That black w/blue trim render is right in the space I was thinking.

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 13:09:42 »
Long time ago I had same idea pressing up row buttons with the knuckles, but it didn't work, coz they must be very low, and often i pressed them accidentally while pressing other buttons and was hard to put and take out hand from the pad.

Offline MatchstickMan

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 15:19:56 »
Long time ago I had same idea pressing up row buttons with the knuckles, but it didn't work, coz they must be very low, and often i pressed them accidentally while pressing other buttons and was hard to put and take out hand from the pad.

Yeah, I imagine that could have been a pain. Maybe they could have some adjustability like the thumb cluster? Though that still probably wouldn't help too much. Good stuff! Welcome to GH!

Offline kurplop

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 16:47:32 »
Thanks for sharing. It's always nice to see something that pushes the status quo. I don't think it would be comfortable for me because I have discomfort with any finger extension moves but definitely a 10 for craftsmanship and creativity. Welcome to Geekhack.

Online csmertx

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 15 December 2017, 21:33:11 »
God damn. I love the weathered yellow style; reminds me of the P-5000 from the Alien movie francise.
 / another 3d keyboard model thread / open source sucks / github 
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Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 16 December 2017, 00:22:02 »
Quote
What are you using for the thumbstick?
Something like that:

Offline TalkingTree

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 16 December 2017, 03:06:25 »
That's one of the most impressive builds I've ever seen.
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Offline menuhin

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 16 December 2017, 05:57:48 »
ART!!!

You immediately entered my legendary hall of fame builder list on GH/DT/MK
Wishlist: 1) hotswap boards for MX and for Alps; 2) Alps64; 3) Universal Teensy convertor; 3) Quack & Split Planck; 4) Solid cases like TX
More
Wishful-list: 1) HASU BT battery lasts a year; 2) ABS Shine-proof/PBT DoubleShot spherical; 3) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 4) Endgame
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
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Choc mini Gateron black
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HHKB Pro 2 stock
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Offline Coreda

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 16 December 2017, 06:14:50 »
Looks like something that wouldn't be out of place in Half-Life 2 :thumb:

The multi-directional finger buttons remind me of the Datahand.

Offline luismonterieart

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 17 December 2017, 02:46:09 »
I really enjoyed your piece and the approach you took in creating it. It was very well done. :thumb:

Offline menuhin

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 17 December 2017, 11:36:37 »
Wishlist: 1) hotswap boards for MX and for Alps; 2) Alps64; 3) Universal Teensy convertor; 3) Quack & Split Planck; 4) Solid cases like TX
More
Wishful-list: 1) HASU BT battery lasts a year; 2) ABS Shine-proof/PBT DoubleShot spherical; 3) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 4) Endgame
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 stock
[typing slowly at ~80WPM, in love with Emacs, and growing in Lisp]

Offline emenelopee

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 17 December 2017, 22:13:24 »
Very impressive: have a +1 from me.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 18 December 2017, 11:54:46 »
Impressive indeed. I have seen home-made keyboards with rows of keys before down/forwards/backwards but not in multiple rows and not with custom Datahand-like keys.
I like how you made so many angles adjustable. Really cool project!
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Offline sinusoid

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 27 December 2017, 16:16:21 »
Wow. I love this :O Awesome process, awesome results, and a great show of skills and determination. Chapeau bas good sir!
Bonus points for the datahandish look. Appears to be very comfortable in use. I'm salivating at the vid.

I like the mechanical interface between the key and the microswitches in the  3d printed version. Nice leverage you got there.

That XY finger distance adjustment via bolts, heh, I was iterating something like this for a vertical stagger alps split keyboard. It's great to see this evolve independently in someone's design - probably most natural way to get this adjustability. I can't see it in the design, but adding a flat spring washer to the bolts makes them behave better during adjustments, especially the angle. The screws release gradually, and it doesn't go all wobbly out of a sudden, and is more slip resistant during use, doesn't distort easily.

Great looking wood iterations. I can see the hours that went into making these wooden ones, it's impressive. I used a similar method long time ago, though I would cut pieces of wood and glue them together into the overall shape before going at them with chisels and a handheld grinder. Worse appearance due to glue seams and you have to wait for the glue to set, but more effortless to make and you can work on a few parts in parallel before gluing the shape together.

What 3d printer?
What plastic?
What CAD software?

Oh and POST MOAR VIDS! :D

Offline funderburker

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 27 December 2017, 20:33:49 »
Crazy impressive! I love seeing people that are not just making something unique for themselves and stop when they are done but they keep working on the idea and make it even more impressive! Damn fine job mate!

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« Last Edit: Thu, 28 December 2017, 01:04:30 by funderburker »

Offline _rubik

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 27 December 2017, 20:53:13 »
Wow.... This is remarkable, unique, and so well done. Thank you so much for coming out of lurking to share. This was certainly a labor of love.

Offline TreeFrog

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #24 on: Sun, 31 December 2017, 08:40:55 »
Amazing design. I was going to try and build something like a Razer Orbweaver for my right hand (I'm a leftie), but this has given me a lot more to think about! Could you tell us about the switches you used, maybe post some pictures of the inside of the final device?

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 05 January 2018, 04:00:16 »

Great looking wood iterations. I can see the hours that went into making these wooden ones, it's impressive. ...

What 3d printer?
What plastic?
What CAD software?

Oh and POST MOAR VIDS! :D

Thank you for good words, everyone  :D

It is comfortable to use indeed. No need to stretch your fingers unbelievable distance across the keyboard and the hand stays in the same position that's the big plus what I was looking for. Of course it takes some time to get used to it, like 1-2 weeks, depends how much games your are playing  ;D but after that anyone who have tried it doesn't want to go back to keyboard.

The wooden iterations took me around 1 day each (learned to work with wood at school). They have much better feeling for the hand. But can't see how to put the wood in current version of the gamepad.

We are using Anet A8 3d printer, a cheap one, but after proper settings are found the print quality is good.
Plastic is PLA. Much easier to print than ABS.
For CAD software we are using SolidWorks (using it at work).

Will be posting more videos as soon as we film something more decent quality.

Also, currently we are making next gamepad with tiny improvements and fixes. Will paint it all matte black. Lets see how it turns out. Could take around a week :D

Offline corygrapher

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 05 January 2018, 23:46:04 »
extremely impressive work.

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 04:13:46 »
OK we just finished to make another keypad with several improvements, this time matte black (already sold) and a version with colored buttons.




Our plans for the future:
On the April-May we are planning to finish our webpage where it will be possible to order these keypads.
But anyone who wants to get it earlier, can contact us (azeron.keypad@gmail.com). As we are now in the final testing stage, there will be some small changes in the keypad, but it is possible to order now.


Here is some rendered color samples (you can choose whatever colored combinations you want):





« Last Edit: Sat, 09 June 2018, 13:45:15 by Bucis »

Offline funderburker

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 11 January 2018, 05:57:45 »
Wow, that's really nice and looks so good. Too bad I don't game that much (casual gamer and mostly platformers).

Any chance you could make a video with it Azeron in action? I'm quite intrigued to see how it is operated.

Keep up the good work and again - it looks great!  :thumb:

Offline sinusoid

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 04:35:24 »
Finishing those 3d prints by hand... Hardcore. I have to respect that. Sandpaper, then filler base and paint/lacquer? Or did you manage to automate it?
I hope you'll be able to scale up to injection molding, the way those parts are designed literally begs for it.

If you intend to sell them, I'd suggest using ABS or one of the other material mixes available. PLA alone has a low melting point, it might permanently distort if the keypad gets warm from sun during summer days. I'd suggest to test it at least, and make a note of expected storage/use properties. ABS tends to distort during printing, but you should be fine with a few modifications to your printer if you intend to go that route.

What electronics/software does it run on?

And finally - how does product deployment look like from the legislation POV in EU? I always thought this was a painstakingly complex process for custom stuff like this.

Offline vincent88928

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 06:34:56 »
Hello! Long time lurker here.
Decided to show my project, which started long time ago - back in 2012 with GuildWars2 release.
Already on the GW2 beta testing i understood, that playing this game with a keyboard is not for me, so i did start looking for something in the market, but could'n find anything that suits me. So I started my own project.

1) There is my first try to solve a problem, it was already was better than keyboard:

Show Image
Show Image

As electronic i did use pcb from an old xbox joystick.
WASD movement went to thumb-stick and buttons for skills could be easily reached with fingers.
But the buttons was too hard to press and it required to look at it from time to time so i could position fingers correctly. So I had to figure out something better.

2) So I made next version of it:

Show Image

Now some buttons are horizontal, but some of them vertical. And now I could play without looking at the keys - fingers all the time stay in the same spots...
So this result was already great for playing with ease  ;D

3) I gave to my friends to try it out. Their feedback was very positive just had a problem with a different hand sizes so here was my try to solve that.

Show Image


So I made a version which could be resized - up down, angle, and closer further away from palm-rest.
And this keypad had a custom made pcb.

4) After some years of hardcore  playing games with comfort  :cool: I noticed that for some games it was necessary to have more buttons, so here comes the upgrade  ;D

Show Image


As you can see its now used quiet a bit - all dirty of heavy use and some buttons falling off.
So there is 2 more rows of buttons, which took some time to get used to, but now I can't live without them  :D
This keypad used already 2 pcb's of old joysticks to support all the keys.

5)There was lot of trial and error, designs and models, which never made out of 3d modeling software. I spent a big amount of time till found a good design, where fits all what i wanted to see in it.

Show Image
Show Image

Show Image


6) Then we bought 3D printer, from that point things started to develop a lot faster. We could try out all ideas, see mistakes, make fast changes and try again. And did not have to wait a long time for the result:

Show Image

Got rid of 2 huge joystick pcb's and started to use Teensy.
Used old perforated steel plate to play with the tower placements.

7) Now we are here, 3D printed with sanding, polishing and painting:

Show Image
Show Image

Show Image


Added some upgrades in the firmware.
Pc can recognize it as joystick (which requires JoytoKey software to configure buttons). Some of the games don't allow joystick or JoytoKey (khem... black desert ...khem  :rolleyes:), so I made it possible to switch to keyboard setup (but this one still needs an interface software to configure buttons).
Its also possible to adjust each tower for finger length and angle, same on a thumb-stick. Also add diodes too see which mode is on and possibility to dim them if they feel too bright. But there still are some work to do to make it perfect :)
Looks impressive.Hope the function so cool as well
Have Fun Everywhere

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 13:27:45 »
Finishing those 3d prints by hand... Hardcore. I have to respect that. Sandpaper, then filler base and paint/lacquer? Or did you manage to automate it?
I hope you'll be able to scale up to injection molding, the way those parts are designed literally begs for it.

If you intend to sell them, I'd suggest using ABS or one of the other material mixes available. PLA alone has a low melting point, it might permanently distort if the keypad gets warm from sun during summer days. I'd suggest to test it at least, and make a note of expected storage/use properties. ABS tends to distort during printing, but you should be fine with a few modifications to your printer if you intend to go that route.

What electronics/software does it run on?

Yes, its made hardcore by hand  ;D takes some days.
And yes, we also hope to scale someday to injection molding, that's our dream.
Thanks for the suggestion about ABS, but I think PLA is a bit more durable and easier to work with. And PLA melting point is around 180C, I think it should be fine, but we will test it.
We are using Teensy++ 2.0 as electronics, and JoyToKey as software. But we are planing to make our own software in near months.
About that legislation - currently we just sell it as handmade product.

Offline sinusoid

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 15 January 2018, 15:31:08 »
Thanks for the suggestion about ABS, but I think PLA is a bit more durable and easier to work with. And PLA melting point is around 180C, I think it should be fine, but we will test it.

PLA has glass transition temperature around 60-65 degrees Celsius. It's "workable" at 180, but gets soft at much lower temperatures (80 deg C from my experience). It depends on the mixes. I used some filaments based on PLA recently with additives that made them resistant to higher temperatures.

Btw, part shapes look like something you could make in silicone forms relatively easily, you might want to look into that for small volume manufacture. You can also print the molds and pour resin in them. PLA peels away from epoxy resin easily, and you'll end up using 20-50% less filament and printing time. Should do the same for polyurethane resins, but I didn't test it yet. Epoxy sandpapers down wonderfully compared to both PLA and ABS.

Good luck!  ;D

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 07 February 2018, 08:47:47 »
We have made new one, now with a metal plate so towers are even stronger now.




There is our Guild Wars 2 key mapping:


And finally proper gameplay video:
« Last Edit: Sat, 09 June 2018, 13:47:55 by Bucis »

Offline TonyD

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 15 February 2018, 10:31:18 »
really cool
It looks like its straight out of a sci-fi movie

Offline mogo

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 15 February 2018, 11:14:56 »
This is an exquisite thread. Not just another idle-musings and a half-hearted attempt at a prototype that stalls out, you're going the distance with this. You have my curiosity and my attention, I look forward to seeing this project grow beyond its already impressive development!  :thumb:

Offline TomBodet

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 15 February 2018, 12:04:46 »
Thanks for the use vid. 

I'm wondering what strain is involved in using the upper levels.  It didn't look all that comfortable since you have to get over the standing lower row.

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 19 February 2018, 15:00:17 »
Thanks for the use vid. 

I'm wondering what strain is involved in using the upper levels.  It didn't look all that comfortable since you have to get over the standing lower row.

Of course it is not as easy to reach as the lower buttons, but still much more comfortable than on keyboard. I usually put there something I don't use very often, like inventory, map, elite skill etc.

Offline emenelopee

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #38 on: Tue, 20 February 2018, 11:39:01 »
This is impressive - are you developing this for a marketable product or is this just for yourself? I thought you were going to stop at the wooden prototypes but you keep going. Keep on going!

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 22 February 2018, 04:58:40 »
We would like to make it as marketable product, so people could see how great difference there is when playing games with this keypad. But we are stuck - next steps (molds, manufacturing, marketing) needs a LOT of money. So, currently we are offering people to buy it as hand-made / 3d printed model. It works the same way as manufactured ones (we use them ourselves for several years now, no problem), just takes longer to make them - and that means they are more expensive than if they would be if 'made in china'. But from the other side, we can give more individual approach to whoever uses our keypad - order your custom color, give the best support there is and receiving feedback in return to improve the keypad even more.

Online algernon

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 22 February 2018, 08:25:24 »
Have you considered doing a Kickstarter / IndieGogo campaign, to move towards actual manufacture?

I understand that's a whole lot of work to set up, run, and deliver, but is more forward-pointing than offering custom made ones, perhaps.

But, out of curiosity, roughly how much would a hand-made model cost? The gamepad is intriguing. Very intriguing.

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 24 February 2018, 11:01:14 »
Yes, we thought about crowdfunding. But after consulting some people that have used it, they suggest to use it only when you are ready to manufacture, because the gathered money will not be enough for making molds. Crowdfunding is good for games and stuff that needs only work, not manufacturing.
We currently offer two custom made versions: 1) 3d printed and assembled - 100eur, or 2) 3d printed, smoothed, painted - 185eur
Also we offer 60 day try out period.

Offline funderburker

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 24 February 2018, 13:14:14 »
A bit of an off-topic but I just now noticed that you're from Latvia.

Čau un veiksmi darbā!  ;D

Online algernon

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 26 February 2018, 07:36:52 »
Yes, we thought about crowdfunding. But after consulting some people that have used it, they suggest to use it only when you are ready to manufacture, because the gathered money will not be enough for making molds. Crowdfunding is good for games and stuff that needs only work, not manufacturing.

Well, there is the Keyboardio Model 01, that got crowdfunded, and is now being delivered to backers and people who pre-ordered. They made custom keycap molds, custom case, and so on.

The UltimateHackingKeyboard also included custom molds for the case, and is also shipping, and ran a fundraiser on crowdsupply.

Dygma's Raise also finished a Kickstarter, but that's quite recent, and isn't shipping yet.

Point is, there are plenty of examples where hardware got crowdfunded, where that included manufacturing custom parts, and they delivered. Not saying it is the road you should take right now, just highlighting a few examples. There were many other successful hardware kickstarters outside of keyboards, too. You gotta work the manufacturing price into the tiers, I suppose.

We currently offer two custom made versions: 1) 3d printed and assembled - 100eur, or 2) 3d printed, smoothed, painted - 185eur
Also we offer 60 day try out period.

That's not too bad, and I have a birthday coming up in a few months... hmm. :)

Thanks for the info!

Offline sinusoid

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 27 February 2018, 07:54:11 »
[...] got crowdfunded, and is now being delivered to backers [...]

Right now it's more of an exception than a rule for most hardware crowdfunded projects.
This can, and most probably will, fail in a lot of spectacular ways, some of which end with you in a closed garage, engine on, and fall out boy on the radio.

@Bucis,
suggestion - upgrade to silicone molds to increase turnover, hit Artisan Services section.
no more painting and grinding.

Online algernon

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 28 February 2018, 02:45:33 »
[...] got crowdfunded, and is now being delivered to backers [...]

Right now it's more of an exception than a rule for most hardware crowdfunded projects.

There's the Librem laptops too, if you want some other examples. Or the GlowForge 3D laser printer. All of these are much more complex than this keypad (which is in turn more complex than most keyboards that got crowdfunded).

Yes, there are a lot of failed hardware kickstarters. But there are plenty of succesful ones too. Pretty much the same deal as with any other crowdfunding... most will fail, some will succeed. One needs to work hard on succeeding. Thankfully, there are plenty of good examples to learn from!

Offline Dominathan

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 18 June 2018, 15:00:25 »
Holy damn!  I just found this, and damn do I want one of these!  Any updates?

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 21 June 2018, 12:28:57 »
We are now gathering some feedback from our keypad users, and doing some small improvements constantly. One of biggest update: there soon will be keypad for left handed peoples. And our keypad can be ordered in Etsy or message me: azeron.keypad@gmail.com

Offline Dominathan

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 21 June 2018, 12:30:23 »
We are now gathering some feedback from our keypad users, and doing some small improvements constantly. One of biggest update: there soon will be keypad for left handed peoples. And our keypad can be ordered in Etsy or message me: azeron.keypad@gmail.com
Wait, you're selling them custom now for only $120?!

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 21 June 2018, 12:56:33 »
We are now gathering some feedback from our keypad users, and doing some small improvements constantly. One of biggest update: there soon will be keypad for left handed peoples. And our keypad can be ordered in Etsy or message me: azeron.keypad@gmail.com
Wait, you're selling them custom now for only $120?!
Yep, That's right.

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #50 on: Sun, 01 July 2018, 12:04:22 »
We had finished our Keypad for left handed peoples.
Available for order at Etsy





Online algernon

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 26 September 2018, 17:22:04 »
I really, really love this thing. But before I purchase one, I'd like to ask a few questions:

- Is it running custom firmware? If so, is there a way to upload my own? I see it uses a Teensy, which suggests I should be able to flash my own, which gets me to the second question:
- Is the firmware open source? Or at least, is there any info on wiring, how the matrix is setup, etc?
- I plan to buy it through $work, are you able to send an invoice along with the device?

The reason I'm asking is because I developed a (perhaps bad) habit of porting open source firmware (Kaleidoscope) to various devices (ErgoDox & Atreus so far), and one of the goals of my purchase would be to port one to this device. I need to know if I'll be able to do that O:)

Offline funderburker

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #52 on: Thu, 27 September 2018, 03:22:02 »
I really, really love this thing. But before I purchase one, I'd like to ask a few questions:

- Is it running custom firmware? If so, is there a way to upload my own? I see it uses a Teensy, which suggests I should be able to flash my own, which gets me to the second question:
- Is the firmware open source? Or at least, is there any info on wiring, how the matrix is setup, etc?
- I plan to buy it through $work, are you able to send an invoice along with the device?

The reason I'm asking is because I developed a (perhaps bad) habit of porting open source firmware (Kaleidoscope) to various devices (ErgoDox & Atreus so far), and one of the goals of my purchase would be to port one to this device. I need to know if I'll be able to do that O:)

Am not involved with this project but have two questions - can you share link to you Kaleidoscope firmware (googling is showing too much results) and also - how can you get gaming keypads paid for by work (that's so cool)? 

Online algernon

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 27 September 2018, 10:28:30 »
Am not involved with this project but have two questions - can you share link to you Kaleidoscope firmware (googling is showing too much results) and also - how can you get gaming keypads paid for by work (that's so cool)?

https://github.com/keyboardio/Kaleidoscope

And work paying for keyboards is easy: I own the company. >:) (And this way, I can write it up as an expense, and save a bit on tax stuff. Since part of my work involves working on keyboard firmware, this all adds up nicely.)

Offline funderburker

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #54 on: Thu, 27 September 2018, 14:59:08 »
Am not involved with this project but have two questions - can you share link to you Kaleidoscope firmware (googling is showing too much results) and also - how can you get gaming keypads paid for by work (that's so cool)?

https://github.com/keyboardio/Kaleidoscope

And work paying for keyboards is easy: I own the company. >:) (And this way, I can write it up as an expense, and save a bit on tax stuff. Since part of my work involves working on keyboard firmware, this all adds up nicely.)

When I pressed "Send" I figured that's probably it! Writing stuff off as expenses is great, allowed me to get a better laptop in my previous work that I bought off for cheap when I was leaving. :)

Offline The Gambler

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 19 October 2018, 11:19:04 »
This is one of the most hardcore builds I have seen. This is the true Orbweaver if Razer has to say anything about it.

Really interested in the first prototype though. I wouldn't need too many buttons for the games I play.

I'm wondering if the 3D files are uploaded. I would like to adapt it to a simpler version with 2-8 buttons for something like osu.
DIY VA68M ALPS
Gherkin ALPS
Quickfire TK Clears
Too many osu! keypads

Logitech G203/ Zowie ZA12

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #56 on: Tue, 30 October 2018, 06:47:14 »
I really, really love this thing. But before I purchase one, I'd like to ask a few questions:

- Is it running custom firmware? If so, is there a way to upload my own? I see it uses a Teensy, which suggests I should be able to flash my own, which gets me to the second question:
- Is the firmware open source? Or at least, is there any info on wiring, how the matrix is setup, etc?
- I plan to buy it through $work, are you able to send an invoice along with the device?

The reason I'm asking is because I developed a (perhaps bad) habit of porting open source firmware (Kaleidoscope) to various devices (ErgoDox & Atreus so far), and one of the goals of my purchase would be to port one to this device. I need to know if I'll be able to do that O:)



Yes we have a custom firmware (not open source), but at the moment we already working on our software as well (it will be possible to download soon in our web page, it is still in Alpha, but every one who will be interested can download and test it)
You can upload any firmware whats working on Teensy (reset button are easy accessible), never test Kaleidoscope so cant say how its works.
Our button pinout is not a problem, I can send You, or even put in our web page.
I can send some basic invoice from Etsy, but better one I can send if buying via PayPal.
« Last Edit: Tue, 30 October 2018, 07:25:07 by Bucis »

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #57 on: Tue, 30 October 2018, 06:56:19 »
This is one of the most hardcore builds I have seen. This is the true Orbweaver if Razer has to say anything about it.

Really interested in the first prototype though. I wouldn't need too many buttons for the games I play.

I'm wondering if the 3D files are uploaded. I would like to adapt it to a simpler version with 2-8 buttons for something like osu.

Thank You
There is no files uploaded anywhere, but If You are interested I can make changes You like and create one with less buttons, just contact me on mail

Online algernon

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #58 on: Tue, 30 October 2018, 08:07:08 »
You can upload any firmware whats working on Teensy (reset button are easy accessible), never test Kaleidoscope so cant say how its works.

As this is powered by a Teensy, I can make it work. ;)

Quote
Our button pinout is not a problem, I can send You, or even put in our web page.

I think putting it online would be awesome, it might be of great use to anyone who wishes to port an open source firmware to your gaming keypad.

Quote
I can send some basic invoice from Etsy, but better one I can send if buying via PayPal.

I think the basic one would be sufficient for me (as long as it includes the seller's name, the item, and my info, it's fine). I seem to remember Paypal being a bit awkward when using it as a company, but I'll have a look and talk with my accountant. If all goes well I'll have an order placed soon.

Thank you for answering my questions!

Offline nraymond

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #59 on: Thu, 03 January 2019, 14:12:17 »
So I recently came across people talking about the "split" controller support in Overwatch (using an analog USB controller in the left hand, mouse in right) which was broken for a long time on PC, but fixed a year or so ago. I've been doing the standard WASD thing on PC for ages, but I've also experimented with all sorts of alternative controllers on PC and consoles over the years - going back to the original Belkin Nostromo, through the Logitech G13. I've had issues with every alternative controller though. The G13 ergonomics don't agree with me, and the Nostromo evolution in the hands of Razer haven't impressed me. I did see some interesting videos of people using the PS Move Navigation controller on PC via SCPToolkit, but I've read that the Windows 10 Creator update broke SCPToolkit and the developers have stopped developing it (the PS Move Navi controller is not an HID device), and on top of that I'd need something like Xpadder or Remap layered on top of SCPToolkit to get the PS Move Navi controller to work in games were split devices aren't supported (which would effectively turn the analog controller into a digital directional pad). That many questionable software layers do not agree with me.

Now this got me thinking about the  HORI Tactical Assault Commander Pro, which looks like it's now discontinued in the US... but has PC as well as console support, and driver software from a real company that supported Windows 10 and has remapping capability, as well as (I think) the ability to operate as both analog X-Input or as a keyboard (digital) input device. Anyway, it looks like in the Japanese market there's also something called the Tactical Assault Commander Grip Controller, which is more of a half-controller + mouse combo for consoles and PC... There's one review of someone using the G1 of it on a PC and really liking it (and not having to use the bundled mouse, though they liked the bundled mouse). The G2 is out now and it looks like it primarily adds the ability to configure it with a smartphone app (which I could care less about on the PC), but the key thing is that it might have decent drivers and the ability to work with most games (though I'd have to use some other software to map X-Input to D-Input if I needed that). It certainly makes sense to have something more like a gamepad or other ergonomic controller in the left hand rather than some pseudo-keyboard with an analog stick tacked on (or no analog stick, which is a giant missed opportunity I think by Razer). Ultimately though I'm not sure how I feel about a product which has no English-language manual (and I'm not sure about the language of the software either...)

Which lead me to do a more general product search, which turned up the Azeron, made me wonder if anyone on geekhack was talking about it, and lo and behold here is this thread! Very promising. Physically, it is appealing that it sits on a desk since I think my left hand would tire if I had to hold a controller in it for long periods of time. And I like that it is wired and that you load profiles in it at a hardware level.

I can see from the videos that it works well for MMOs, and I found a video showing it being used in Warframe, but how about FPS titles? While I primarily play Overwatch these days, I'm also curious how easy it will be to switch between an Overwatch setup and something else... the alpha software page mentions "Can work as joystick, as keyboard or as hybrid (direct input)" - that is very promising, but what about X-Input? Will I need something like TocaEdit Xbox 360 Controller Emulator to do the mapping for those games? It says, "2 setup profiles can be saved on the onboard memory", what is it like to switch between more than 2 profiles? Also, what makes the software Alpha right now? Are there known outstanding issues I should be concerned with? What's the development timeline look for the software?

I can see some real advantages (ergonomic and response-time based) to having a dedicated analog stick under control of my left thumb, freeing up my left hand four fingers completely for other buttons. Aiming, movement, and actions could finally be physically decoupled such that actions wouldn't interrupt movement and movement could also be more precise (WASD being digital 8-directional and requiring stretching fingers/moving off of WASD for other keyboard functions, interrupting movement). And if I have to fall back to mapping the analog stick to digital for compatibility with some games, my hope is that the non-blocking nature of thumb stick directional controls would still hold advantages. I am very interested in Azeron, it looks well thought out, and I hope it is everything I think it might be!

Offline Bucis

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #60 on: Fri, 04 January 2019, 12:59:09 »

I can see from the videos that it works well for MMOs, and I found a video showing it being used in Warframe, but how about FPS titles? While I primarily play Overwatch these days, I'm also curious how easy it will be to switch between an Overwatch setup and something else... the alpha software page mentions "Can work as joystick, as keyboard or as hybrid (direct input)" - that is very promising, but what about X-Input? Will I need something like TocaEdit Xbox 360 Controller Emulator to do the mapping for those games? It says, "2 setup profiles can be saved on the onboard memory", what is it like to switch between more than 2 profiles? Also, what makes the software Alpha right now? Are there known outstanding issues I should be concerned with? What's the development timeline look for the software?


1) It works well with FPS games too. Only games that doesn't work well with this keypad is probably platformers and racing games.
2) It is possible to switch between 2 favorite profiles with button near logo:
https://www.facebook.com/Azeron.Gaming.Keypad/photos/a.1747466978882679/1937810149848360/?type=3&theater
To see more information on how to work with more than 2 profiles, check the Manual (starting from page 8 ) https://azeron.eu/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Azeron-Manual-V2.0.pdf
There can be only 2 profiles on the on-board memory (not enough memory space for more).
3) In the software it is possible to setup buttons as keyboard buttons, or as joystick buttons, or mix them both in one profile. But for hybrid mode to work it depends on whether the game supports it.
4) Unfortunately it doesn't have X-Input, but we are planing to implement it in the future. Our software currently are very new and we are still working on the basic functions that has higher priority.
5) You can check more feedback of people that are using Azeron keypad in XIM forum: https://community.xim.tech/index.php?topic=71861.0
and there is a streamer whom you can ask questions (he mostly plays Destiny): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/337431681?filter=all&sort=time
6) Currently known issues with the keypad is that some people find that palm rest is not comfortable. And the analog thumbstick is not the best quality and it has this type of deadzone:
 
We are currently working on both of these problems, and much better quality analog stick most likely will be available soon.

Offline nraymond

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #61 on: Sat, 05 January 2019, 10:55:30 »
Bucis, thanks for the quick reply! The manual looks good, makes things pretty clear how they work. I'll check out the other links soon.

I wonder if someday you'd have access to integrating the analog key tech developed by the Aimpad folks and Wooting folks? It'd be interesting to think about an Azeron with four programmable analog keys under the fingers instead of (or in addition to) the multiple buttons, so that the fingers wouldn't have to move off of those keys to perform multiple actions. It's always seemed like a major oversight to me to just make a keypad or keyboard analog, while retaining all of the downsides of WASD movement keys competing with different action keys that require moving fingers off of movement keys to perform actions (as well as the not so great ergonomics of a flat array of keys). To see what I'm talking about:

https://aimpad.com

https://wooting.io/

https://www.techspot.com/review/1641-wooting-one-analog-keyboard/

I think fundamentally the approach you are taking with Azeron makes the most sense.

Online LightningXI

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 14 January 2019, 18:29:47 »
This is truly impressive.

Offline outhentusiast

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Re: Gaming keypad
« Reply #63 on: Tue, 15 January 2019, 20:59:17 »
Master's faphand xD

Truly awesome device mate