Author Topic: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet  (Read 7560 times)

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Offline seva1385

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Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« on: Tue, 26 December 2017, 15:40:42 »
Question mainly for nathan206.

Is there a way to implement what algernon calls "multi-purpose key" using stock Kinesis firmware?
Meaning a key behaves like, say, shift when held in combination with another but as space when tapped.
What about tapdance (single tap generates different keycode than double-tap or triple tap)?
How would that mapping look in the layout file?

Does Advantage2 support custom firmware at all?

Thanks!
Kinesis Advantage2

Online algernon

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 26 December 2017, 16:24:40 »
Meaning a key behaves like, say, shift when held in combination with another but as space when tapped.

As far as I can tell from reading the docs, it can't do that.

What about tapdance (single tap generates different keycode than double-tap or triple tap)?

I'd be very surprised (and equally impressed) if the stock Kinesis firmware supported tap-dance, or something similar.

Offline Phenix

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 29 December 2017, 15:17:44 »
I do know that rap dancing works a treat using QMK. Check out the Kinesis Stapelberg mod (in fact install a teensy and use QMK in a Kinesis)

There was a GB recently however leftovers are still available AFAIK
http://reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/7l3rao/gb_kinesis_contouredadvantage_qmk_mod_kit_using/
Winter is coming.

Offline seva1385

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 29 December 2017, 16:47:37 »
Thank you, I am already aware of Stapelberg modification; in fact, it was me who wrote about it  in your old thread.
I bought one of the original Michael's boards in my Kinesis Essential (a long discontinued PS/2 model.)
My inquiry was specifically about the new Advantage2, which I know rather little about.
I liked SmartSet approach I discovered in  Savant Elite2 foot pedals, but it seems it's still limited to one button-one keycode paradigm, with mere two layers and standard set of modifiers.
Kinesis Advantage2

Offline natas206

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 04 January 2018, 18:09:25 »
Different actions for a quick press and release vs a press and hold aren't supported yet for the Adv2, but that is something we're working on and hopefully it becomes a feature in the upcoming weeks/months.

The Adv2 firmware is far more advanced than the previous Advantage and has a lot of new features. Unless that feature is very important to you, I wouldn't think it's necessary to have custom firmware since the Adv2 firmware is so good. The old Contoured keyboard firmware was pretty buggy with some computers, mostly the Sticky modifier key problem that occurred with a lot of Mac users. So I could understand swapping out the board and using your own custom firmware with an old model.  None of those problems exist with the Adv2 though, so I would think with how improved it is and with all the new features, and new ones on the way, it wouldn't be necessary.  One of the next updates will be the release of an optional programming App, just like the SmartSet App for the Freestyle Edge. It will live inside the v-drive of your Adv2 and will not be necessary to install on your computer, which is nice to have an app require so very little resources. We hope to have that finished within the few weeks or so and I can probably email it to  any adv2 user who would like to test the beta app.
« Last Edit: Thu, 04 January 2018, 18:11:25 by natas206 »

Offline Snarfangel

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 04 January 2018, 21:35:57 »
Different actions for a quick press and release vs a press and hold aren't supported yet for the Adv2, but that is something we're working on and hopefully it becomes a feature in the upcoming weeks/months.

The Adv2 firmware is far more advanced than the previous Advantage and has a lot of new features. Unless that feature is very important to you, I wouldn't think it's necessary to have custom firmware since the Adv2 firmware is so good. The old Contoured keyboard firmware was pretty buggy with some computers, mostly the Sticky modifier key problem that occurred with a lot of Mac users. So I could understand swapping out the board and using your own custom firmware with an old model.  None of those problems exist with the Adv2 though, so I would think with how improved it is and with all the new features, and new ones on the way, it wouldn't be necessary.  One of the next updates will be the release of an optional programming App, just like the SmartSet App for the Freestyle Edge. It will live inside the v-drive of your Adv2 and will not be necessary to install on your computer, which is nice to have an app require so very little resources. We hope to have that finished within the few weeks or so and I can probably email it to  any adv2 user who would like to test the beta app.


That will be perfect. I'm still tweaking some of the less common punctuation on the Adv2, and that will probably easier to test things quickly.

Offline JohanAR

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 08 January 2018, 05:55:31 »
@natas206 have you considered open-sourcing your firmware?

Offline natas206

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 08 January 2018, 11:39:14 »
@natas206 have you considered open-sourcing your firmware?

I like the idea of it but it's above me. I know its something that's been discussed internally a bit, so perhaps at some point in the future. The "SmartSet" technology is used across three of our products - the Savant Elite foot switches, the Advantage2 and the Freestyle Edge (and upcoming Pro model). There aren't many foot switches on the market that can do what the Savant can do, if any, they always require some kind of software or special drivers, and that is a big market for us (used in medical fields, dentistry, transcriptionists, etc.) so perhaps some of their concern would be potentially losing some of that to others who could use our firmware. That's entirely speculation on my part, though.  Again I'm for it myself but its something that will need to be discussed more at Kinesis. We'll see!

 

Offline F2a

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 08 January 2018, 14:06:59 »
Different actions for a quick press and release vs a press and hold aren't supported yet for the Adv2, but that is something we're working on and hopefully it becomes a feature in the upcoming weeks/months.

The Adv2 firmware is far more advanced than the previous Advantage and has a lot of new features. Unless that feature is very important to you, I wouldn't think it's necessary to have custom firmware since the Adv2 firmware is so good. The old Contoured keyboard firmware was pretty buggy with some computers, mostly the Sticky modifier key problem that occurred with a lot of Mac users. So I could understand swapping out the board and using your own custom firmware with an old model.  None of those problems exist with the Adv2 though, so I would think with how improved it is and with all the new features, and new ones on the way, it wouldn't be necessary.  One of the next updates will be the release of an optional programming App, just like the SmartSet App for the Freestyle Edge. It will live inside the v-drive of your Adv2 and will not be necessary to install on your computer, which is nice to have an app require so very little resources. We hope to have that finished within the few weeks or so and I can probably email it to  any adv2 user who would like to test the beta app.

Very excited to hear about the work on the firmware. I can also test if needed. Am debating using QMK myself currently to get more advanced functionality but I only have 1 board so can't afford to be down. I want to buy more units so I can stop transporting my main one but these things never go on sale!

Offline seva1385

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 09 January 2018, 10:36:07 »
Different actions for a quick press and release vs a press and hold aren't supported yet for the Adv2, but that is something we're working on and hopefully it becomes a feature in the upcoming weeks/months.

Yay! I hoped they would.

Could you share a complete list of proposed new features?

How can I become a beta tester for you?

Tnank you!
Kinesis Advantage2

Offline seva1385

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 26 January 2018, 15:32:32 »
I finally purchased an Advantage2 and am playing with it now. Remapping is so much easier with SmartSet. Macros finally became practical. With help from customer support figured out a way to make a key work as keypad shift; now I can make practical use of the embedded layer.

Different actions for a quick press and release vs a press and hold aren't supported yet for the Adv2, but that is something we're working on and hopefully it becomes a feature in the upcoming weeks/months.

Is that what they refer to as "press and release advanced macros"? I am holding my breath for it.
« Last Edit: Fri, 26 January 2018, 17:41:50 by seva1385 »
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Offline Snarfangel

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 31 January 2018, 08:56:21 »
I finally purchased an Advantage2 and am playing with it now. Remapping is so much easier with SmartSet. Macros finally became practical. With help from customer support figured out a way to make a key work as keypad shift; now I can make practical use of the embedded layer.

Different actions for a quick press and release vs a press and hold aren't supported yet for the Adv2, but that is something we're working on and hopefully it becomes a feature in the upcoming weeks/months.

Is that what they refer to as "press and release advanced macros"? I am holding my breath for it.

SmartSet is available for the Advantage2? I want it!

Offline natas206

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 22 March 2018, 10:34:00 »
Hey! So we got the  SmartSet App (beta) working for the Adv2 and is now available on our website:
https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/advantage2-smartset-app-beta/


As of now it's only available on Windows but we have published the source code on GitHub so if anyone wants to play around with it here you go:
https://github.com/KinesisCorporation/Advantage2-SmartSet-App


Because it's beta, I suggest backing up your layout files before using the app just to be on the safe side and follow the notes on the Kinesis link. 

For many users it should be a very useful tool, especially for advanced layouts with lots of macros and remaps. The SmartSet App for the Freestyle Edge has been a great success, so I expect the same for Adv2 users.  Directly editing the layout .txt files is great too, but if you have a lot of macros and/or have long macros it can be daunting looking at all of the text...the SmartSet app will certainly help in that regard. We expect minor bugs in the app, you can report them as well as provide feedback in the Kinesis link above, or you can always talk to me directly at tech@kinesis.com




Also regarding the Freestyle Edge, we released a major firmware update that improved macros. Previously, the Edge was limited to a total of 24 macros. The new firmware update allows “you to program up to 7,200 marco characters per layout, which translates to 24 full-length macros (~300 characters), 100 shorter macros (~72 characters), or anything in between.” Hopefully a max of 100 macros (per layout) should be enough for just about any user. The Status Report will show how much memory capacity you’ve used, so for example SmartSet key + F7 for a status report you’ll see something like this:

Model> FS Pro
Firmware> 1.0.340.us (4MB), 03/13/2018
Layout> layout8.txt
Remaps> 0
Macros> 99
Macro memory used> 99.917 %
Macro Speed 0-9> 9
Game Mode> Off
NKRO Mode> Off
Status Report Speed 0-4> 3

Here is a link to the firmware & details:
https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/fs-edge-support/#box8

Offline Snarfangel

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 23 March 2018, 22:42:04 »
I just want to say SmartSet makes reprogramming the Kinesis2 a lot easier. Sadly, I only have the 2MB version (curse early adoption! Ha, just kidding).

It actually made me dust off my MTGAP software and online keyboard layout analyzers to create a new layout (I made my current one back before my Advantage2). I've got the letters and numbers all set, now I'm just fiddling with punctuation.

Offline seva1385

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 28 March 2018, 00:59:33 »
Hey! So we got the  SmartSet App (beta) working for the Adv2 and is now available on our website:

Thank you for your work.

However, my first attempt to use it was a fiasco. After unmounting v-drive keyboard went dead, only to be resuscitated by hard reset.
After reset, couldn't open querty.txt in editor or copy it, had to reformat v-drive.

Will try again some time later.

To work around, I copied active folder along and the app elsewhere, and was copying the contents of querty.txt to that on the v-drive.

I was not able to map a key to [kpshift] using the application. Even if I have it mapped in querty.txt already, the association is ignored.

Kinesis Advantage2

Offline themoon

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Re: Multi-purpose key mapping using Kinesis Advantage2 SmartSet
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 05 June 2018, 12:38:52 »
Any updates on the new features for Adv2? Like the ones mentioned above - sending different keycodes in combination with other keys is a killer one... have to use software solutions for that, but would be much cooler if Kinesis would support this OOB. Another very nice feature would be an ability to send different keycodes based on duration on keypress: say below 1 sec - enter, above - escape etc.

Can we hope for something like this?