Author Topic: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics  (Read 11237 times)

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Offline HorizonHorizontal

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Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 13:13:10 »
Hi Guys

Please see pics of the desk I have built myself. I was tired of waiting for the Altwork Station to ship to international customers and didn't really want to have to fork out 5K+ as I have to pay import tax. So as I run a metal works business (Think Railings, Metal Fire Escapes) I though I would see what I could get my guys to do.I get a cumulative pain in my 'derriere' where the glut medius, hip and periformas get tight from sitting. The desk allows you to spend 3 or more hours a day horizontal, not adding to postural imbalances. 

Laying down working is not ideal from a brain function perspective. Having said this you can get a good level of work done. you can get 3 - 4 good sessions out this way of working. Because in no pain I can go on working for much longer, so even though brain is working slower some of this is made up by the amount of time you can spend in the chair.This is why my goal is to be able to tilt the whole structure, getting as vertical as I can with out putting stress on the other parts of the body. I am looking for ways to stay in the flat position whilst being at an angle. I am essentially looking at a way to be stuck to the surface in a manner which will not put stress, well too much stress on the supporting part / parts of the body. I will literally try anything so your thoughts please

I was using the Kinesis Advantage keyboard with this desk originally, though bring the hand that close together caused me tension in my scapula / trap muscles. This configuration with the ergodox is much better though not perfect fix its a step in the right direction. I think I may next to try the ergodox keyboard down next to my waist either side of me, so that my hand would be in the position closest to lying neutral. If you know of anyone who has done something like this please let me know.

If we can make a laying down feasible with a basic tilt mechanism which gets you up to 30 - 50 degrees, it could be made very cheaply and be plans could be made opensource so that people could make / print their parts. It would you back a few hundred dollars and actually be better for your posture than the Altwork Station.

Any help you guys can offer would be most welcome

Typing Lying down comes with its own unique set of problems. I have got past lot of them so if you even need any help please get in touch and I'll see if I can help

Many thanks,

Danny ( HorizonHorizontal )

Online tp4tissue

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 14:13:04 »
Hahahahahahha... that ergodox tenting solution is great.. hahahaha...


I've tried out laying down.. Problem for me was cranial pressure..   


Normally when you're going to sleep, your blood pressure drops by alot, so even though you're horizontal, your head/brain isn't so pressurized.


But, if you're Awake, and actively using your mind,  then the laying position where the heart is now more in line with your head generates significantly greater pressure.


In my laying down position, i just kept getting a headache..




Eventually, I decided to do standing desk..  barefoot, with a soft (low density) rubber mat.

This worked out better than my laying down desk

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 02 June 2017, 14:14:44 »
with your setup , you can probably easily convert it for a --leaning desk--.. so it's like a 3/4 way between laying down and standing.. perhaps that is an even better solution vs sitting or standing..

I've not explored this option yet.

Offline hoggy

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 03 June 2017, 13:04:09 »
Looks like you've put in a thought on this.  I like your tactile approach to the ergodox.

I remember seeing a photo of a split kinesis advantage not too long ago.  It was a member's project.  Another option would be two one hand Maltrons.  Have you seen the twiddler keyboard?  Your typing speed would probably max out at 30 wps though...
GH Ergonomic Guide (in progress)
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=54680.0

Offline HorizonHorizontal

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 03 June 2017, 14:34:49 »
The tactile blue bits are Sugru. A handy material.

Yes will adapt to be at an angle. Will post up new adaptions. Yes you feel a little giidy when you get up after 45min or more

Would really like like to see the split advantage keyboard setup. A link would be much appreciated.


Offline Sciurid89

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 04 June 2017, 14:49:28 »
Have you tried one of those kneeling chairs? Seems like an interesting way to distribute weight away from the bottom, though I don't know how comfortable it is for long periods of time.

I'm also interested - where are your elbows when using this? Raised, or resting against the mat?

Offline davkol

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 04 June 2017, 16:39:55 »
Have you tried one of those kneeling chairs? Seems like an interesting way to distribute weight away from the bottom, though I don't know how comfortable it is for long periods of time.
I've recently read that they're the worst thing ever. Hmm…

Offline mrhead

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 04 June 2017, 17:46:25 »
What about a massage table type setup with the screen/peripherals underneath so you can be fully supported but not completely horizontal?

Offline LuX

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 07 June 2017, 15:52:07 »
Have you tried one of those kneeling chairs? Seems like an interesting way to distribute weight away from the bottom, though I don't know how comfortable it is for long periods of time.
I've recently read that they're the worst thing ever. Hmm…

I've been using one for over a year and like it. Tried different chairs in between, but always fall back to the Varier Thatsit. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, though.
What I like most about it, is that it supports proper posture. I don't think it reduces your weight by any significant amount, unless you're actively lifting yourself.

Another thing... I replaced the original cushion of the chair with WonderGel. It eliminates any pressure points you might have, I don't know if that helps in your (OP) case. It feels weird at first, but when you get used to it, it really makes a difference. My only criticism is that they are generally quite small, but for the Varier the size was a near perfect. You might need to get two depending on your size and the chairs surface area.

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 07 June 2017, 19:05:09 »
Have you tried one of those kneeling chairs? Seems like an interesting way to distribute weight away from the bottom, though I don't know how comfortable it is for long periods of time.
I've recently read that they're the worst thing ever. Hmm…

I've been using one for over a year and like it. Tried different chairs in between, but always fall back to the Varier Thatsit. I wouldn't recommend it to everyone, though.
What I like most about it, is that it supports proper posture. I don't think it reduces your weight by any significant amount, unless you're actively lifting yourself.

Another thing... I replaced the original cushion of the chair with WonderGel. It eliminates any pressure points you might have, I don't know if that helps in your (OP) case. It feels weird at first, but when you get used to it, it really makes a difference. My only criticism is that they are generally quite small, but for the Varier the size was a near perfect. You might need to get two depending on your size and the chairs surface area.

i think this is not good for heavier guyz..   if you're lighter up top,  it should be fine.

Offline wolfv

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 02 September 2017, 13:00:15 »
Laying down working is not ideal from a brain function perspective.
I use a supine workstation laying completely horizontal.  Never effected my brain function though.

I am trying to figure out your setup.  What is the purpose of the vertical part at the the foot end?  Is that for standing on while inclined?

Clay on the key caps to feel your way around keyboard - what great idea.  Does the clay fall off?

Here are some things that work for me:

RAM mounts are useful for mounting keyboard and other parts that need adjusting position http://www.rammount.com/components

Lumbar roll under my lower back: I use a rolled up towel with 2 rubber bands to keep it rolled up.

For writing upside-down on paper: magnets hold paper on steel plate, writing in pencil or felt pen.

For lighting upside-down paper, Magnetic Mounting Base Working Gooseneck Lamp LED for Sewing Machine.
« Last Edit: Sat, 02 September 2017, 13:07:42 by wolfv »

Offline HorizonHorizontal

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 08 April 2018, 04:11:08 »
Hi

The Clay is Sugru, it goes hard and does not fall off.

I'll be Launching a website soon called flatbackdesk.com which outlines the evolution of the desk all the products I have tried along the way. I have made various improvements to design seen here.

I'll post in thread when it is live.


Offline wolfv

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 08 April 2018, 04:39:50 »
I look forward to your website. :)

Offline derpdederp

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 30 December 2018, 00:31:21 »
Awesome! Any progress on this? Please let us know what help you need... I will get to try an altwork soon, but I don't like how they arrange the keyboard in the laying down position. As you said laying down typing is an issue. Here is how I would do it: The main issue with the lay down systems today is the wrist is cocked back and the elbow is closer to a right angle than it should be. They keyboard should either be 1) close to the layer's lap with elbow/forearm support, or 2) split, on either side of the lap, arms supported and closer to straight to each keyboard. Of course you would have to touch type to do this, but learning to touch type is good for you anyway (low hanging fruit)!

Is AltWork really the only lay-down desk? I wonder about the long-term durability of electronic assisted desks like AltWork. Motors could wear out, etc. I think a mechanical-leverage and/or pneumatic system would be idea.

Thoughts & Updates OP?

Offline wolfv

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 30 December 2018, 03:12:54 »
Is AltWork really the only lay-down desk? I wonder about the long-term durability of electronic assisted desks like AltWork. Motors could wear out, etc. I think a mechanical-leverage and/or pneumatic system would be idea.

Hi derpdederp,
I built this homemade supine workstation and used it at work: https://abledata.acl.gov/product/homemade-supine-work-station
CAD drawings and more pictures are at: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s679UVVCCbpvQf-PjCPO3aL4MDLiVvYF/view?usp=sharing
This design is even simpler, but I have not tried it: https://medium.com/@jcraigk/healthy-hacking-diy-supine-workstation-cbaadcbbc2aa

Touchtyping number keys and tab are easy to miss without some kind of aid.
At first, I used a mirror to view the keyboard, but I don't use that anymore.
Now I use feeler wires to help me locate tab and number keys by touch.
Feeler wires were made from paper clips and glued around the peripheral edge of the keyboard, one feeler wire between every-other key.
OP used Sugru.

Offline derpdederp

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 02 January 2019, 23:18:41 »
So do you get the feeling you want to sit up a little - like the AltWork can do? Or are you content saying at that angle? Have you tried the AltWork? I don't feel like building something really...

Offline wolfv

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 02 January 2019, 23:54:14 »
derpdederp,

I do not get the feeling of wanting to sit up a little.  Although the supine workstation does take a few days to get used to:
  • the screen-to-eyeball distance is fixed (no moving my head around), so I adjusted the monitor to be relatively close to my face and I use reading glasses that focus at exactly that distance.
  • I use the mouse on my chest, which seems like the directions are off by 90 degrees (you can try this now while sitting).
  • avoid glare from ceiling lights by positioning the supine workstation or blocking the light.

Laying flat is the best for my back, but everyone's back is different.  Some back-pain people like the zero-gravity chair, which hurts my back.

I have not tried the AltWork.

Offline Squarism

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 05 January 2019, 19:23:48 »
Great work!  As a horizontal worker myself, ill follow your exploration with passion. Soon going to develop my own waist split keyboard setup with arm support. Not sure how it will come together, but I must have it done.

Offline Zustiur

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 26 January 2019, 08:50:26 »
So you're lying down on the job? Hahahaha.
Ok, all joking aside, this is a concept of never heard of before. I'm intrigued.
On the side topic of kneeling chairs, I had one that I got rid of. It was not good for my knees, causing hyperflexion (?). I think that the right term.
The most comfortable computing setup I've ever used was a rocker/recliner chair with the keyboard on my lap and mouse pad on the arm of the chair.
It was annoying to get up and sit down but glorious for long gaming sessions.

Offline derpdederp

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 08 February 2019, 01:56:21 »
derpdederp,

I do not get the feeling of wanting to sit up a little.  Although the supine workstation does take a few days to get used to:
  • the screen-to-eyeball distance is fixed (no moving my head around), so I adjusted the monitor to be relatively close to my face and I use reading glasses that focus at exactly that distance.
  • I use the mouse on my chest, which seems like the directions are off by 90 degrees (you can try this now while sitting).
  • avoid glare from ceiling lights by positioning the supine workstation or blocking the light.

Laying flat is the best for my back, but everyone's back is different.  Some back-pain people like the zero-gravity chair, which hurts my back.

I have not tried the AltWork.

When you say zero-gravity chair, do you mean the "Zero Gravity Workstation 7 by ErgoQuest?"
Not sure I would want the screen to eye-ball distance fixed completely; would be nice to adjust every few hours.

Offline wolfv

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Re: Laying Down Desks - Looking For Help With My Desk - See Pics
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 08 February 2019, 11:47:56 »
When you say zero-gravity chair, do you mean the "Zero Gravity Workstation 7 by ErgoQuest?"
https://relaxtheback.com/products/ > zero gravity chairs, and recliners
These have the same body position used in the Apollo Space Capsil.
But I need to stretch out flat.

This one is inexpensive https://relaxtheback.com/products/perfect-chair-laptop-desk
But the monitor needs to be positioned higher.

Not sure I would want the screen to eye-ball distance fixed completely; would be nice to adjust every few hours.
There are articulated monitor arms https://www.google.com/search?q=articulated+monitor+arms.
« Last Edit: Fri, 08 February 2019, 11:52:22 by wolfv »