Author Topic: [IC]Sanctuary Rebirth-Diablo-Inspired Exocet Keyset [Waiting for samples R2]  (Read 63478 times)

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Online Kokaloo

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Well it does seem like a *lot* of compromises are being made in this set just for the factory - at what point do you stop and say okay I'm not willing to compromise on almost-everything-except-standard-ANSI, time to find a new factory?
From what I gather, and the amount of time this set has been in IC, there is literally NO other option to get this set made without sacrificing design integrity. I'd much rather some compatibility be sacrificed rather than deterring from the original vision for the set.
This set can still be used in plenty of layouts, this thread is getting ridiculous.

Offline HotRoderX

  • Posts: 672
Well it does seem like a *lot* of compromises are being made in this set just for the factory - at what point do you stop and say okay I'm not willing to compromise on almost-everything-except-standard-ANSI, time to find a new factory?
From what I gather, and the amount of time this set has been in IC, there is literally NO other option to get this set made without sacrificing design integrity. I'd much rather some compatibility be sacrificed rather than deterring from the original vision for the set.
This set can still be used in plenty of layouts, this thread is getting ridiculous.

Honestly it is sorta sad if people don't like it, they can easily go run there own keyset but then that means they have to do some work and couldn't just complain on the internet about not being the majority of users. I know personally I am happy to see this set made. I got a feeling it will easily meet MOQ with out the help of ISO users.

Offline Auxo

  • Formerly CJD_Anthony
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Well it does seem like a *lot* of compromises are being made in this set just for the factory - at what point do you stop and say okay I'm not willing to compromise on almost-everything-except-standard-ANSI, time to find a new factory?

There is a very small minority of companies that can do 5-side dyesub as I can recall. Not many companies out there have the proper tooling to run such a set. The original factory the GB runner wanted, Keyreative, essentially ghosted him. TKC was our 2nd choice, and thus we had to make sacrifices as TKC doesn't have 100% of the tooling available.

If you know of any manufacturers that have a good reputation and QC, then maybe suggest them to the GB runner. I am sure he is doing his best given his options, even the OG designer got shafted on kits HE was personally invested in, which is a major disappointment if I do say so myself.

Offline sevenseacat

  • Posts: 231
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Well it does seem like a *lot* of compromises are being made in this set just for the factory - at what point do you stop and say okay I'm not willing to compromise on almost-everything-except-standard-ANSI, time to find a new factory?

There is a very small minority of companies that can do 5-side dyesub as I can recall. Not many companies out there have the proper tooling to run such a set. The original factory the GB runner wanted, Keyreative, essentially ghosted him. TKC was our 2nd choice, and thus we had to make sacrifices as TKC doesn't have 100% of the tooling available.

If you know of any manufacturers that have a good reputation and QC, then maybe suggest them to the GB runner. I am sure he is doing his best given his options, even the OG designer got shafted on kits HE was personally invested in, which is a major disappointment if I do say so myself.

So maybe don't do 5-sided dyesub, maybe go back to somewhere like SP and do doubleshot. I'm sure he is doing everything he can yes, but with every change he makes, he makes more people unhappy that have been following this set for years.

I'm sure it'll be a success anyway, for some definition of success, when it finally does run.
« Last Edit: Sun, 16 June 2019, 23:25:04 by sevenseacat »

Online Kokaloo

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Well it does seem like a *lot* of compromises are being made in this set just for the factory - at what point do you stop and say okay I'm not willing to compromise on almost-everything-except-standard-ANSI, time to find a new factory?

There is a very small minority of companies that can do 5-side dyesub as I can recall. Not many companies out there have the proper tooling to run such a set. The original factory the GB runner wanted, Keyreative, essentially ghosted him. TKC was our 2nd choice, and thus we had to make sacrifices as TKC doesn't have 100% of the tooling available.

If you know of any manufacturers that have a good reputation and QC, then maybe suggest them to the GB runner. I am sure he is doing his best given his options, even the OG designer got shafted on kits HE was personally invested in, which is a major disappointment if I do say so myself.

So maybe don't do 5-sided dyesub, maybe go back to somewhere like SP and do doubleshot. I'm sure he is doing everything he can yes, but with every change he makes, he makes more people unhappy that have been following this set for years.

I'm sure it'll be a success anyway, for some definition of success, when it finally does run.
Do you understand how unbelievably expensive it would be to get these legends done in doubleshot? The set literally needs to be dye-sub.

Offline sevenseacat

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They already exist in doubleshot, from the original DCS Sanctuary run. Not all of them, but most of them.

Online mta

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Well it does seem like a *lot* of compromises are being made in this set just for the factory - at what point do you stop and say okay I'm not willing to compromise on almost-everything-except-standard-ANSI, time to find a new factory?

IIRC there really aren't any other factories who can pull this set off without major sacrifices. So waiting until such a factory is found (or waiting until someone develops the necessary tooling) and then switching yet again would mean putting this already heavily-delayed set back into limbo indefinitely, for the sake of a couple keys that typically struggle to sell well as standalone kits or only serve to increase the price for everyone else when folded into the base kit.

It's unfortunate all-around, but it came to this because Dymloslouire was ghosted by the previous factory (Keyreative), so now it's either proceed with a compromise that will still satisfy most people, maintain the intended design, and still cover a wide range of popular layouts... or have the set not get made at all anytime soon.
« Last Edit: Mon, 17 June 2019, 07:30:09 by mta »

Offline HotRoderX

  • Posts: 672
They already exist in doubleshot, from the original DCS Sanctuary run. Not all of them, but most of them.

look at those kits they had zero support and fun fact SP who you said they should run it thought doesn't do ISO either... yep! Instead of complaining so much about this set go create your won and find someone willing to create it. Then go find 150-300 people to buy it.. Why not go ahead and include only ISO support you know. I mean seriously this is stupid at this point don't like the set move on. Unless your just a internet troll looking to cause Drama. I don't see people with Topre coming into the thread complaining about lack of Topre support. Want to have a non standard layout deal with not always getting the keys you need/want.

Offline sevenseacat

  • Posts: 231
  • Location: Australia
They already exist in doubleshot, from the original DCS Sanctuary run. Not all of them, but most of them.

look at those kits they had zero support and fun fact SP who you said they should run it thought doesn't do ISO either... yep! Instead of complaining so much about this set go create your won and find someone willing to create it. Then go find 150-300 people to buy it.. Why not go ahead and include only ISO support you know. I mean seriously this is stupid at this point don't like the set move on. Unless your just a internet troll looking to cause Drama. I don't see people with Topre coming into the thread complaining about lack of Topre support. Want to have a non standard layout deal with not always getting the keys you need/want.

What on earth, ISO isn't a "non-standard layout". And SP does do ISO kits.

Offline OracleKev

  • Posts: 391
the problem is that the factory we are working with didn't have the capability to make the ISO kit....
they don't have the ISO mold.
no mold, no keys.


Show Image


PLEASE UNDERSTAND!  Let's move on folks~  ;D

Offline HotRoderX

  • Posts: 672
They already exist in doubleshot, from the original DCS Sanctuary run. Not all of them, but most of them.

look at those kits they had zero support and fun fact SP who you said they should run it thought doesn't do ISO either... yep! Instead of complaining so much about this set go create your won and find someone willing to create it. Then go find 150-300 people to buy it.. Why not go ahead and include only ISO support you know. I mean seriously this is stupid at this point don't like the set move on. Unless your just a internet troll looking to cause Drama. I don't see people with Topre coming into the thread complaining about lack of Topre support. Want to have a non standard layout deal with not always getting the keys you need/want.

What on earth, ISO isn't a "non-standard layout". And SP does do ISO kits.
They don't in SA profile but do in DSA and DCS... either way it is what it is .. and yes ISO is a non standard layout when most the world and yes its MOST the world uses Ansi. ISO is a more standard layout then most but its still not what the majority of people use. Once again you completely ignored everything else I said which is still very much valid which tells me. That your only argument was pretty thin to start with. 

Offline sevenseacat

  • Posts: 231
  • Location: Australia
They already exist in doubleshot, from the original DCS Sanctuary run. Not all of them, but most of them.

look at those kits they had zero support and fun fact SP who you said they should run it thought doesn't do ISO either... yep! Instead of complaining so much about this set go create your won and find someone willing to create it. Then go find 150-300 people to buy it.. Why not go ahead and include only ISO support you know. I mean seriously this is stupid at this point don't like the set move on. Unless your just a internet troll looking to cause Drama. I don't see people with Topre coming into the thread complaining about lack of Topre support. Want to have a non standard layout deal with not always getting the keys you need/want.

What on earth, ISO isn't a "non-standard layout". And SP does do ISO kits.
They don't in SA profile but do in DSA and DCS... either way it is what it is .. and yes ISO is a non standard layout when most the world and yes its MOST the world uses Ansi. ISO is a more standard layout then most but its still not what the majority of people use. Once again you completely ignored everything else I said which is still very much valid which tells me. That your only argument was pretty thin to start with. 

You're delusional. But anyway.

I'm still in for this set, though I'm still disappointed about the removal of kits like Colemak.

Offline Surefoot

  • Posts: 66
yes ISO is a non standard layout when most the world and yes its MOST the world uses Ansi.
No.
ISO literally means it's an international standard.
Again, all of Europe uses ISO and that's a substantial part of the world.
Japan uses a further variation of it.
China and Russia use BAEK or ISO depending on where you are and how recent it is (i have worked on chinese Dell keebs that still use the BAEK)
Literally 3 countries use ANSI. There goes your "most of the world" which probably means "USA is most of the world"...

As for this kit, we'll give it a pass but if there's a 2nd run with more support for different layouts, it will certainly meet some success.

Offline Auxo

  • Formerly CJD_Anthony
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Is it possible to take these arguments to PM? There is literally no value to them as the GB organizer has already stated that the manufacturer he has chosen doesn't have the molds for ISO layout.

If you guys want to suggest changing manufacturers, however, feel free to shoot the idea and hope for a response.

But please, for the love of kbs, take these arguments off the thread,

Thank you.

Offline OracleKev

  • Posts: 391
Is it possible to take these arguments to PM? There is literally no value to them as the GB organizer has already stated that the manufacturer he has chosen doesn't have the molds for ISO layout.

If you guys want to suggest changing manufacturers, however, feel free to shoot the idea and hope for a response.

But please, for the love of kbs, take these arguments off the thread,

Thank you.

+1

Offline nguyenhimself

  • Posts: 431
[deleted by me because I don't want to argue anymore]
« Last Edit: Tue, 18 June 2019, 12:43:09 by nguyenhimself »

Offline Auxo

  • Formerly CJD_Anthony
  • Posts: 478
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Once again, gonna ask if you guys can please take this to PMs.

Offline MdotMaxson

  • Posts: 40
Ive never been so disappointed. Diablo 2 was the best video game I ever played. And I wanted this set so bad and it was looking good. Now this 1 kit fits all.... it reminds me of how I felt after the first day of playing Diablo 3. Biggest disappointment of my life.

Offline Yeoh

  • Posts: 110
yes ISO is a non standard layout when most the world and yes its MOST the world uses Ansi.
No.
ISO literally means it's an international standard.
Again, all of Europe uses ISO and that's a substantial part of the world.
Japan uses a further variation of it.
China and Russia use BAEK or ISO depending on where you are and how recent it is (i have worked on chinese Dell keebs that still use the BAEK)
Literally 3 countries use ANSI. There goes your "most of the world" which probably means "USA is most of the world"...

As for this kit, we'll give it a pass but if there's a 2nd run with more support for different layouts, it will certainly meet some success.

Even if that were true, its all completely irrelevant. This is a custom keyset designed primarily for custom keyboards. As a matter of fact iso barely exists in this hobby, and is very much a non-standard layout, whether you like it or not.

In any case, if you are going to give this set a pass, please pass by this thread in the future as well, as per the forum rules. Or stay and continue to reinforce the entitled reputation that whiny iso users are known for, and risk suspension/banning, I guess.

As far as the set is concerned, it looks great. I wish more sets were designed this way. Looking forward to it. Has anything about pricing been released yet?

Offline HotRoderX

  • Posts: 672
yes ISO is a non standard layout when most the world and yes its MOST the world uses Ansi.
No.
ISO literally means it's an international standard.
Again, all of Europe uses ISO and that's a substantial part of the world.
Japan uses a further variation of it.
China and Russia use BAEK or ISO depending on where you are and how recent it is (i have worked on chinese Dell keebs that still use the BAEK)
Literally 3 countries use ANSI. There goes your "most of the world" which probably means "USA is most of the world"...

As for this kit, we'll give it a pass but if there's a 2nd run with more support for different layouts, it will certainly meet some success.

Even if that were true, its all completely irrelevant. This is a custom keyset designed primarily for custom keyboards. As a matter of fact iso barely exists in this hobby, and is very much a non-standard layout, whether you like it or not.

In any case, if you are going to give this set a pass, please pass by this thread in the future as well, as per the forum rules. Or stay and continue to reinforce the entitled reputation that whiny iso users are known for, and risk suspension/banning, I guess.

As far as the set is concerned, it looks great. I wish more sets were designed this way. Looking forward to it. Has anything about pricing been released yet?

Along time ago someone mentioned it follow the same pricing as DSA Drifter, but honestly that was a LONG time ago and just a rumor. I wouldn't expect it to be as expensive as GMK but I wouldn't expect to to be more then GMK if that helps at all.

Offline menuhin

  • Posts: 996
  • Location: Germany
yes ISO is a non standard layout when most the world and yes its MOST the world uses Ansi.
No.
ISO literally means it's an international standard.
Again, all of Europe uses ISO and that's a substantial part of the world.
Japan uses a further variation of it.
China and Russia use BAEK or ISO depending on where you are and how recent it is (i have worked on chinese Dell keebs that still use the BAEK)
Literally 3 countries use ANSI. There goes your "most of the world" which probably means "USA is most of the world"...

As for this kit, we'll give it a pass but if there's a 2nd run with more support for different layouts, it will certainly meet some success.

Even if that were true, its all completely irrelevant. This is a custom keyset designed primarily for custom keyboards. As a matter of fact iso barely exists in this hobby, and is very much a non-standard layout, whether you like it or not.

In any case, if you are going to give this set a pass, please pass by this thread in the future as well, as per the forum rules. Or stay and continue to reinforce the entitled reputation that whiny iso users are known for, and risk suspension/banning, I guess.

As far as the set is concerned, it looks great. I wish more sets were designed this way. Looking forward to it. Has anything about pricing been released yet?

Along time ago someone mentioned it follow the same pricing as DSA Drifter, but honestly that was a LONG time ago and just a rumor. I wouldn't expect it to be as expensive as GMK but I wouldn't expect to to be more then GMK if that helps at all.

PBT Katakana was like $69-$89 for the whole set.
With more people after it, they probably want to earn more despite lacking support even within their capability (one can say there is no ISO mould and not wanting to invest in one, but how about adding just 4 or so keys to support more proper Planck layout - his can be done.)
Wishlist: 1) hotswap boards for MX and for Alps; 2) Alps64; 3) Universal Teensy convertor; 3) Quack & Split Planck; 4) Solid cases like TX
More
Wishful-list: 1) HASU BT battery lasts a year; 2) ABS Shine-proof/PBT DoubleShot spherical; 3) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 4) Endgame
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[typing slowly at ~80WPM, in love with Emacs, and growing in Lisp]

Offline menuhin

  • Posts: 996
  • Location: Germany
Ive never been so disappointed. Diablo 2 was the best video game I ever played. And I wanted this set so bad and it was looking good. ...... how I felt after the first day of playing Diablo 3. Biggest disappointment of my life.

You like many who follow from Diablo I to II to expansion, can feel the difference in art work, style of game, music, atmosphere - everything. Blizzard North was the genius team that created everything for Diablo I and II, and Blizzard ended up making the decision of dismissing the team, and starting from sketch with a whole new totally different team, despite Blizzard North started developing Diablo III already. Ended up they created something to match the WoW and LoL kind of thing but totally lost their own signature soul.

I know how you felt...
Wishlist: 1) hotswap boards for MX and for Alps; 2) Alps64; 3) Universal Teensy convertor; 3) Quack & Split Planck; 4) Solid cases like TX
More
Wishful-list: 1) HASU BT battery lasts a year; 2) ABS Shine-proof/PBT DoubleShot spherical; 3) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 4) Endgame
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[typing slowly at ~80WPM, in love with Emacs, and growing in Lisp]

Offline HotRoderX

  • Posts: 672
Ive never been so disappointed. Diablo 2 was the best video game I ever played. And I wanted this set so bad and it was looking good. ...... how I felt after the first day of playing Diablo 3. Biggest disappointment of my life.

You like many who follow from Diablo I to II to expansion, can feel the difference in art work, style of game, music, atmosphere - everything. Blizzard North was the genius team that created everything for Diablo I and II, and Blizzard ended up making the decision of dismissing the team, and starting from sketch with a whole new totally different team, despite Blizzard North started developing Diablo III already. Ended up they created something to match the WoW and LoL kind of thing but totally lost their own signature soul.

I know how you felt...

I sorta agree with this, I was a Diablo 1 and 2 player. I felt the same way you both did when D3. Then played it and understood that while it might not be perfect it was better then nothing. 

Also the Blizzard North Team got screwed completely. They started working on World of Warcraft Burning Crusades but the higher ups didn't like it. They ended up scrapping it and bring in a new team. When that happened Blizzard north left. Least that was my understanding of the situation.

Offline Auxo

  • Formerly CJD_Anthony
  • Posts: 478
  • Location: US
Hey Dym,

Are we not getting this cap included in the new set?


Offline Tom_Kazansky

  • Posts: 268
  • Location: Vietnam
  • Oblivion Knight
Hi, Dym!
I saw two 1u "+" keys in the numpad kit, is this intentional?  ;D
« Last Edit: Wed, 26 June 2019, 22:48:53 by Tom_Kazansky »
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clarke


Offline MdotMaxson

  • Posts: 40
I would highly suggest removing the renders of the ortho linear keyboards from the IV being as you cut support. Kinda like false advertising and people who are new and looking for ortholinear will probably not understand that they were cheated out of this set.

Online Kokaloo

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Katakana supposedly shipping this week.  ;D