Author Topic: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.  (Read 21863 times)

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Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #150 on: Mon, 16 July 2018, 18:30:45 »
Why are they not pushing this update to the place where the originally announced it? Perhaps to try and quell the public conversations about this GB?

I for one am really dissapointed that it has taken another month to get this update.

1. You have confirmed that the ETA is now September... Lets see how long that will last. We are now at the point of shipping and we have pictures of 2/4 colours and no proper pictures of the PCB or the parts for the bluetooth/ battery compartment.
2. You have confirmed the colour of the tactical blue... Something that should of been done in the prototyping phase or at the beginning of the GB. NOT mid groupbuy!
3. Why at no stage in your pre GB posts did you say what the colour codes you were using were? Or is this just the closest Pantone to the anodized finish? Can we perhaps know what the other pantone colours are then to get a proper idea of what to expect?
4. You have said repeatedly that you are going to give us more updates. However that has fallen short of the mark multiple times. Elemento has made one post and then none of the questions directed to them have been answered. How do we know that these aren't false promises like before?
5. A PCB update in 1-2 weeks... Why has there been no movement on this before now? Surely that can be created seperately from the case? or were the PCB and case not finished designs which we were sold?

Throughout this whole groupbuy, I felt like I have been fobbed off. We get enough information to keep us happy for another month and then radio silence once again.

I strongly suggest to everyone who is within this GB to call Paypal and to make sure that they can extend their buyer protection. At this rate we will be well past the 180 days of Buyer protection before we see something nearly complete.

Online darthzero

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #151 on: Mon, 16 July 2018, 23:27:54 »
To be fair, email is the only way no gb participate can complain about not getting this update. Your other points are valid concerns though ^^.

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #152 on: Tue, 17 July 2018, 21:19:21 »
Why are they not pushing this update to the place where the originally announced it? Perhaps to try and quell the public conversations about this GB?

I for one am really dissapointed that it has taken another month to get this update.

1. You have confirmed that the ETA is now September... Lets see how long that will last. We are now at the point of shipping and we have pictures of 2/4 colours and no proper pictures of the PCB or the parts for the bluetooth/ battery compartment.
2. You have confirmed the colour of the tactical blue... Something that should of been done in the prototyping phase or at the beginning of the GB. NOT mid groupbuy!
3. Why at no stage in your pre GB posts did you say what the colour codes you were using were? Or is this just the closest Pantone to the anodized finish? Can we perhaps know what the other pantone colours are then to get a proper idea of what to expect?
4. You have said repeatedly that you are going to give us more updates. However that has fallen short of the mark multiple times. Elemento has made one post and then none of the questions directed to them have been answered. How do we know that these aren't false promises like before?
5. A PCB update in 1-2 weeks... Why has there been no movement on this before now? Surely that can be created seperately from the case? or were the PCB and case not finished designs which we were sold?

Throughout this whole groupbuy, I felt like I have been fobbed off. We get enough information to keep us happy for another month and then radio silence once again.

I strongly suggest to everyone who is within this GB to call Paypal and to make sure that they can extend their buyer protection. At this rate we will be well past the 180 days of Buyer protection before we see something nearly complete.

I'm learning a lot from this group buy. Sadly, I used my CC and I'm not sure they'll be as forgiving as PayPal.... Or did the checkout on the site when we purchased go through paypal? Honestly, I can't remember, it's been so long.

Offline Jkush463

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #153 on: Tue, 17 July 2018, 23:31:43 »
boy this whole thing was a mess any one gotten anything yet? glad i passed this up now sad to say it looks amazing though.

Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #154 on: Wed, 18 July 2018, 04:52:44 »
Snip

Over here in the UK we have got the Consumer protection act which goes along with most credit cards. Section 75 states that items bought over Ł100 and less than Ł30k put the CC provider partially liable if things go wrong. So to combat this they give the customer protection. Usually its 90 days however it depends on the type of product you bought and in this case I think you would be ok to have gone over this time limit...

I am guessing you are in the US, so I would contact your credit card provider and see what they are able to do!
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 July 2018, 04:54:31 by the pokemon kid »

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #155 on: Wed, 18 July 2018, 16:56:21 »
Snip
I am guessing you are in the US, so I would contact your credit card provider and see what they are able to do!

Yeah, I have my fingers crossed they'll be able to help me out and extend things.

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #156 on: Thu, 26 July 2018, 19:40:14 »
Has anybody seen Input Club RE:Type? I'm tempted to jump ship for that. IC seems more reliable than ZF at this point... I really wish zFrontier would take charge with this buy. I see them being revered for other GB projects, which is why I went in on this buy with such little info on the board. I figured that even if ELEMENTO wasn't on the up-and-up, that they'd own up to the issues and be open with what's going on.

Online rioc

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #157 on: Fri, 27 July 2018, 00:03:27 »
Has anybody seen Input Club RE:Type? I'm tempted to jump ship for that. IC seems more reliable than ZF at this point... I really wish zFrontier would take charge with this buy. I see them being revered for other GB projects, which is why I went in on this buy with such little info on the board. I figured that even if ELEMENTO wasn't on the up-and-up, that they'd own up to the issues and be open with what's going on.
meh, retype is nothing for me... I don't like being locked down to a single layout... also no half plate, doesn't look good, it's just bland

Online HotRoderX

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #158 on: Fri, 27 July 2018, 00:25:05 »
Has anybody seen Input Club RE:Type? I'm tempted to jump ship for that. IC seems more reliable than ZF at this point... I really wish zFrontier would take charge with this buy. I see them being revered for other GB projects, which is why I went in on this buy with such little info on the board. I figured that even if ELEMENTO wasn't on the up-and-up, that they'd own up to the issues and be open with what's going on.

I don't know I hadn't heard a lot of good about input club. They seem almost shady at times. They tend to hold back info until brought public. Like guy asked a simple question if I order XYZ how will it ship. They refused to tell him saying they couldn't. Then he gets on reddit and suddenly they admit they don't know they ship thought a 3rd party that just ships things.

Then there is the K-Type they abandoned that project December was the last update. Glad they got into a pissing match with massdrop but as a customer. I could honestly careless I would have liked to have had my product supported.

Then they blamed Massdrop for the inferior stabilizers that rattle. They supposedly tried to get Massdrop to go with better. There Whitefox they released not the ones from massdrop suffered the same issue from reports. They also suffered the same static issues with the PCB from what read that the first two generations had from Massdrop.

Then the switches they produced remember first few batches were lubed in such a way they basically become liner's from the factory. I think they got that worked out finally. I just wouldn't trust Massdrop. Sure Z-Frontier hasn't been the best people to deal with on this drop but. this was a single drop and it could be Elemento that is the problem.

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #159 on: Wed, 01 August 2018, 00:20:37 »
Has anybody seen Input Club RE:Type? I'm tempted to jump ship for that. IC seems more reliable than ZF at this point... I really wish zFrontier would take charge with this buy. I see them being revered for other GB projects, which is why I went in on this buy with such little info on the board. I figured that even if ELEMENTO wasn't on the up-and-up, that they'd own up to the issues and be open with what's going on.
meh, retype is nothing for me... I don't like being locked down to a single layout... also no half plate, doesn't look good, it's just bland

That's true, I hadn't thought about that. It's kind of sad, I forgot what made this keyboard special because it's been so long :/

Has anybody seen Input Club RE:Type? I'm tempted to jump ship for that. IC seems more reliable than ZF at this point... I really wish zFrontier would take charge with this buy. I see them being revered for other GB projects, which is why I went in on this buy with such little info on the board. I figured that even if ELEMENTO wasn't on the up-and-up, that they'd own up to the issues and be open with what's going on.

I don't know I hadn't heard a lot of good about input club. They seem almost shady at times. They tend to hold back info until brought public. Like guy asked a simple question if I order XYZ how will it ship. They refused to tell him saying they couldn't. Then he gets on reddit and suddenly they admit they don't know they ship thought a 3rd party that just ships things.

Then there is the K-Type they abandoned that project December was the last update. Glad they got into a pissing match with massdrop but as a customer. I could honestly careless I would have liked to have had my product supported.

Then they blamed Massdrop for the inferior stabilizers that rattle. They supposedly tried to get Massdrop to go with better. There Whitefox they released not the ones from massdrop suffered the same issue from reports. They also suffered the same static issues with the PCB from what read that the first two generations had from Massdrop.

Then the switches they produced remember first few batches were lubed in such a way they basically become liner's from the factory. I think they got that worked out finally. I just wouldn't trust Massdrop. Sure Z-Frontier hasn't been the best people to deal with on this drop but. this was a single drop and it could be Elemento that is the problem.

You make a good point. That's disappointing, to say the least. I'm glad other GBs I'm in are going better than this, cause this has certainly soured my opinion of GBs and zFrontier.

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #160 on: Tue, 07 August 2018, 19:07:43 »
Bumping this in hopes it gets ZF attention.

We are now on two months of no communication from either Elemento or ZF - save for a single email from ZF which is unacceptable in my eyes as the buy is being run in here, not through my email. I see other buys by ZF that are getting frequent attention, while this gets buried.

Offline mkarlsson

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #161 on: Wed, 08 August 2018, 05:10:03 »
Yep, an update would be nice.

Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #162 on: Wed, 08 August 2018, 06:09:09 »
Bumping this in hopes it gets ZF attention.

We are now on two months of no communication from either Elemento or ZF - save for a single email from ZF which is unacceptable in my eyes as the buy is being run in here, not through my email. I see other buys by ZF that are getting frequent attention, while this gets buried.

Dont forget about the update in 2 weeks which is now a week late...


Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #163 on: Tue, 14 August 2018, 05:30:30 »
Just your friendly reminder to contact Paypal to extend your buyer protection!

We have just 29 days of buyer protection left and if you don't extend then there is nothing that PayPal will be able to do, if the product the never sent out or has even more major delays.

It has taken 151 days so far to get the pictures of two out of the four colours. We also have no proper updates on the PCB!

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #164 on: Tue, 14 August 2018, 18:18:24 »
Just your friendly reminder to contact Paypal to extend your buyer protection!

We have just 29 days of buyer protection left and if you don't extend then there is nothing that PayPal will be able to do, if the product the never sent out or has even more major delays.

It has taken 151 days so far to get the pictures of two out of the four colours. We also have no proper updates on the PCB!

Any idea how many times PayPal will extend?

Online Starston3

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #165 on: Tue, 14 August 2018, 22:02:04 »
How does extending buy protection work?

Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #166 on: Wed, 15 August 2018, 04:30:25 »
How does extending buy protection work?

So there is one of two ways it works.

1. You get Zfroniter to refund you and you then pay the invoice with the same money. Give you another 180 days of buyer protection
2. You open a dispute with Paypal and it is extended for however long the case takes.

if you decide not to, then you can be up **** creek. We are talking, if the product arrives and its got a monster dent in it, you can't go to Paypal and get your money back. You just have to hope that Zfrontier are good people and will replace it. There is no protection if something goes wrong or if the GB extends into next year...

Offline mkarlsson

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #167 on: Wed, 15 August 2018, 10:01:35 »
Check your email guys, new update there...

Online rioc

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #168 on: Wed, 15 August 2018, 10:04:39 »
Check your email guys, new update there...
nice, but image links are broken

Offline mkarlsson

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #169 on: Wed, 15 August 2018, 13:55:48 »
Check your email guys, new update there...
nice, but image links are broken

I asked Alex about that and he sent me the pics. Don’t know if I should be the one posting them.

Online rioc

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #170 on: Wed, 15 August 2018, 14:39:16 »
Check your email guys, new update there...
nice, but image links are broken

I asked Alex about that and he sent me the pics. Don’t know if I should be the one posting them.
I think everybody got the second mail with the pics

Offline mkarlsson

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #171 on: Wed, 15 August 2018, 14:43:15 »
Check your email guys, new update there...
nice, but image links are broken

I asked Alex about that and he sent me the pics. Don’t know if I should be the one posting them.
I think everybody got the second mail with the pics

Ah true, my fault.

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #172 on: Thu, 16 August 2018, 22:04:33 »
Check your email guys, new update there...

What the absolute ****?! I haven't gotten anything in my emails as far as I can tell!

ZFrontier, why are updates to the group buy not being posted in the group buy thread?

Offline Randalljai

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #173 on: Thu, 16 August 2018, 23:31:02 »
What was the update? I didn't join the GB but planned on, but decided not to. Just curious..

Online HotRoderX

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #174 on: Fri, 17 August 2018, 03:12:59 »
Check your email guys, new update there...

What the absolute ****?! I haven't gotten anything in my emails as far as I can tell!

ZFrontier, why are updates to the group buy not being posted in the group buy thread?

Did you check your spam folder? That would be my first guess as to what happened to your email's.

Second guess is depending on who you use for a Email provider ((I know most use Gmail)) They might have email's from Zfrontiers home region blocked. I am guessing its china.

Third thing why don't you just ask someone who got the email to post a update. People are being so cagey with this stuff its kinda insane. I mean since ZFrontier isn't updating and neither is Elemento. Then go ahead post the email's. They don't like it tough they should have followed geekhack guide lines and posted updates to the thread.

Also if its this upsetting to you Raven why not go ahead and do a buyer protection claim with paypal.

Offline wholypantalones

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #175 on: Fri, 17 August 2018, 06:34:01 »
Third thing why don't you just ask someone who got the email to post a update. People are being so cagey with this stuff its kinda insane. I mean since ZFrontier isn't updating and neither is Elemento. Then go ahead post the email's. They don't like it tough they should have followed geekhack guide lines and posted updates to the thread.

Why doesn't someone just post the email instead of telling people to go read an email they didn't get? Makes sense.

Online rioc

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #176 on: Fri, 17 August 2018, 06:49:36 »
Quote from Alex Lin:
Quote
Hi all,
 
First of all, I would like to apologize that I could not keep up the update due to being to occupied coordinating many other GBs and shipping.

Now we are at a stage where we have all the housing, metal parts done and sorting should begin early Sept once packages and other assembly parts are ready. Packaging should be ready soon as well. The annoying part is that the PCB manufacturer is now fixing some issues we discovered during inspection.

Anodizing, done. Laser etching, done. Requesting photos from the manufacturer.
PVD, done. Took the manufacturer 3 trials and attempts to perfect them.
Custom rubber feet, done.
Package, ongoing.
Assembly parts, ongoing.
PCB, ongoing. RGB refresh rate was not desired, staring long time into the backlight is not comfortable. Manufacturer currently working on fixing this issue.

If you need help extending paypal protection, feel free to let me know. I will help you with this. And zFrontier as a company and a business will be responsible for your purchase.

Best,
Alex

included pics album: https://imgur.com/a/QlVwKvF

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #177 on: Fri, 17 August 2018, 23:37:20 »
Check your email guys, new update there...

What the absolute ****?! I haven't gotten anything in my emails as far as I can tell!

ZFrontier, why are updates to the group buy not being posted in the group buy thread?

Did you check your spam folder? That would be my first guess as to what happened to your email's.

Second guess is depending on who you use for a Email provider ((I know most use Gmail)) They might have email's from Zfrontiers home region blocked. I am guessing its china.

Third thing why don't you just ask someone who got the email to post a update. People are being so cagey with this stuff its kinda insane. I mean since ZFrontier isn't updating and neither is Elemento. Then go ahead post the email's. They don't like it tough they should have followed geekhack guide lines and posted updates to the thread.

Also if its this upsetting to you Raven why not go ahead and do a buyer protection claim with paypal.

1. Yes. Nada.

2. Could be valid, I'll have to look in to it since I do use gmail.

3. Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż Anyone could post them at any time, not really sure what to say to this.

4. Honestly, I keep forgetting. Was PayPal required when buying from the US store? I know I used a credit card, but I can't remember if it processed through paypal or not. If it didn't, I'm probably just gonna have to straight drop out as I doubt my CC will be willing to do the process stated previously. I'm also hesitant to mess with it as I'm 99% sure I got the first one and if it does go through, I'd really like to have serial #1... lol.


Snip

Thank you : ] That's a little more reassuring, I might email them and ask them to help out with my fourth point above.

Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #178 on: Mon, 20 August 2018, 06:50:47 »
Got my refund through from ZFroniter and paid the new invoice to renew my 180 days of Paypal Protection! Feel a little more secure about this now!

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #179 on: Wed, 22 August 2018, 19:20:33 »
Got my refund through from ZFroniter and paid the new invoice to renew my 180 days of Paypal Protection! Feel a little more secure about this now!

Awesome : ] I'll be doing the same. But the point still stands, we're looking at 10 weeks from the last official comment in this thread.

Online slxdegrees

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #180 on: Sun, 26 August 2018, 00:52:00 »
Is that why the GB isn't shown as Sold Out on Zfrontier?

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #181 on: Thu, 30 August 2018, 22:36:14 »
Is that why the GB isn't shown as Sold Out on Zfrontier?

It is for me? Also, I just want to point out that I emailed zFrontier about a week ago regarding my order and haven't heard anything back. The Pokémon Kid, how long did they take to respond to your email?

Online slxdegrees

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #182 on: Thu, 30 August 2018, 22:41:30 »
Is that why the GB isn't shown as Sold Out on Zfrontier?

It is for me? Also, I just want to point out that I emailed zFrontier about a week ago regarding my order and haven't heard anything back. The Pokémon Kid, how long did they take to respond to your email?
Now it shows as sold out for me too. Pretty sure that when I wrote that comment I could place an order lol.

Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #183 on: Fri, 31 August 2018, 04:19:54 »
Is that why the GB isn't shown as Sold Out on Zfrontier?

It is for me? Also, I just want to point out that I emailed zFrontier about a week ago regarding my order and haven't heard anything back. The Pokémon Kid, how long did they take to respond to your email?

They took a day to respond. I would contact Paypal about getting a refund. That will get you on Zfrontiers radar pretty quick. I think paypal can send a message to them on your behalf...

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #184 on: Fri, 31 August 2018, 20:05:35 »
Is that why the GB isn't shown as Sold Out on Zfrontier?

It is for me? Also, I just want to point out that I emailed zFrontier about a week ago regarding my order and haven't heard anything back. The Pokémon Kid, how long did they take to respond to your email?
Now it shows as sold out for me too. Pretty sure that when I wrote that comment I could place an order lol.

Weird! I can't say for sure, but I feel like I checked it about a month ago and it showed sold out, but I can't say for certain.

Is that why the GB isn't shown as Sold Out on Zfrontier?

It is for me? Also, I just want to point out that I emailed zFrontier about a week ago regarding my order and haven't heard anything back. The Pokémon Kid, how long did they take to respond to your email?

They took a day to respond. I would contact Paypal about getting a refund. That will get you on Zfrontiers radar pretty quick. I think paypal can send a message to them on your behalf...

Ah gotcha. I'll do that, then. Still, even more trouble to go through.

Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #185 on: Sat, 08 September 2018, 19:00:32 »
That 2 week PCB update is now 6 weeks late...

Has anyone recieved any updates on this GB since 15th of August? We are now in the time when the delayed board was ment to being shipped.

Online rioc

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #186 on: Sun, 09 September 2018, 05:09:41 »
That 2 week PCB update is now 6 weeks late...

Has anyone recieved any updates on this GB since 15th of August? We are now in the time when the delayed board was ment to being shipped.
no, no update yet... I'm still trusting on zFrontier to get a grip on this though, they have been pretty correct so far, it's just that the delays are annoying for sure

Offline RavenPanther

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #187 on: Tue, 11 September 2018, 20:14:22 »
That 2 week PCB update is now 6 weeks late...

Has anyone recieved any updates on this GB since 15th of August? We are now in the time when the delayed board was ment to being shipped.

I've emailed them 3 times now regarding getting my payment re-done, and haven't heard anything back. Three weeks, one email a week, no response :l

That 2 week PCB update is now 6 weeks late...

Has anyone recieved any updates on this GB since 15th of August? We are now in the time when the delayed board was ment to being shipped.
no, no update yet... I'm still trusting on zFrontier to get a grip on this though, they have been pretty correct so far, it's just that the delays are annoying for sure

Please help me keep my faith in them too, it's wavering hard. Not a lot of people seem to be jumping ship (or at least being vocal about it) so I'm curious what positive experiences they've had with ZF as this one is my first and it's certainly not positive.

Online rioc

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #188 on: Wed, 12 September 2018, 03:00:57 »
That 2 week PCB update is now 6 weeks late...

Has anyone recieved any updates on this GB since 15th of August? We are now in the time when the delayed board was ment to being shipped.

I've emailed them 3 times now regarding getting my payment re-done, and haven't heard anything back. Three weeks, one email a week, no response :l

That 2 week PCB update is now 6 weeks late...

Has anyone recieved any updates on this GB since 15th of August? We are now in the time when the delayed board was ment to being shipped.
no, no update yet... I'm still trusting on zFrontier to get a grip on this though, they have been pretty correct so far, it's just that the delays are annoying for sure

Please help me keep my faith in them too, it's wavering hard. Not a lot of people seem to be jumping ship (or at least being vocal about it) so I'm curious what positive experiences they've had with ZF as this one is my first and it's certainly not positive.

Well, since it's someone else behind the production they can't influence that too much, however if things go wrong I'm sure they'd either look for other means to get it done or refund the money. (I don't mistrust them in that regard)

As for the lack of updates and not replying to mails, that's a no no. I know they've been extremely busy lately, but that's not an excuse.

Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #189 on: Wed, 12 September 2018, 05:29:09 »

Please help me keep my faith in them too, it's wavering hard. Not a lot of people seem to be jumping ship (or at least being vocal about it) so I'm curious what positive experiences they've had with ZF as this one is my first and it's certainly not positive.

I bought GMK Pristine from them recently. That was extremely quick and smooth. I got the Keycaps within a few days of ordering them and that was delivery to the UK...


Well, since it's someone else behind the production they can't influence that too much, however if things go wrong I'm sure they'd either look for other means to get it done or refund the money. (I don't mistrust them in that regard)

As for the lack of updates and not replying to mails, that's a no no. I know they've been extremely busy lately, but that's not an excuse.

Well actually ZFrontier should be able to have an influence on this. They should be the ones steering the ship and making regular checks on Elemento and not just allowing to do their own thing. Especially when they find a manufacturer and then it becomes evident that the manufacturer can't do the work. At this point if I were ZFrontier I would be managing Elemento on a weekly basis, if not more frequent as they are dragging the ZFrontier brand through the mud.

Online darthzero

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #190 on: Wed, 12 September 2018, 09:16:37 »

Well, since it's someone else behind the production they can't influence that too much, however if things go wrong I'm sure they'd either look for other means to get it done or refund the money. (I don't mistrust them in that regard)

As for the lack of updates and not replying to mails, that's a no no. I know they've been extremely busy lately, but that's not an excuse.

Well actually ZFrontier should be able to have an influence on this. They should be the ones steering the ship and making regular checks on Elemento and not just allowing to do their own thing. Especially when they find a manufacturer and then it becomes evident that the manufacturer can't do the work. At this point if I were ZFrontier I would be managing Elemento on a weekly basis, if not more frequent as they are dragging the ZFrontier brand through the mud.
Imho the ZFrontier brand is as good as it was before this gb, after all this is still a GB. Let me cite from "What is a group buy? Should I join one? Group Buy FAQ / Buying Guidelines": "And it takes months, sometimes a year+ for group buys to complete.  Be prepared to wait."
This is a more or less complex product unlike some keycaps from GMK i.e., where you gather money, give it to them and the rest will be fine. Here you have to work with not one but several manufacturers to get a complete product and if one thing fails the whole product is on hold. I for one account for problems to occur in such a gb, in the end there are lots of humans involved and everyone can make mistakes.
For the communication part i totally agree that this could be better, emails only come after many complaints here which is on the outlines of OK^^... but everytime they fail an expected date they should notify us before we start to "cry". Whom to fault there? Idk, ZFrontier seems like the party who handle the money part to let us feel more secure (assumtions!!! but imagine we wouldn't have ZF and would have given the money directly to Elemento, that would have worried me) and about Elemento i don't know nothing... maybe they have lots of work with other gbs, maybe it's just one human doing this as a hobby besides a 10 hour day job and caring about two kids.
TLDR: keep calm and clack on and to elemeto/zfrontier: more updates please <3
« Last Edit: Wed, 12 September 2018, 09:18:16 by darthzero »

Offline the pokemon kid

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #191 on: Thu, 13 September 2018, 05:13:58 »

Well, since it's someone else behind the production they can't influence that too much, however if things go wrong I'm sure they'd either look for other means to get it done or refund the money. (I don't mistrust them in that regard)

As for the lack of updates and not replying to mails, that's a no no. I know they've been extremely busy lately, but that's not an excuse.

Well actually ZFrontier should be able to have an influence on this. They should be the ones steering the ship and making regular checks on Elemento and not just allowing to do their own thing. Especially when they find a manufacturer and then it becomes evident that the manufacturer can't do the work. At this point if I were ZFrontier I would be managing Elemento on a weekly basis, if not more frequent as they are dragging the ZFrontier brand through the mud.
Imho the ZFrontier brand is as good as it was before this gb, after all this is still a GB. Let me cite from "What is a group buy? Should I join one? Group Buy FAQ / Buying Guidelines": "And it takes months, sometimes a year+ for group buys to complete.  Be prepared to wait."
This is a more or less complex product unlike some keycaps from GMK i.e., where you gather money, give it to them and the rest will be fine. Here you have to work with not one but several manufacturers to get a complete product and if one thing fails the whole product is on hold. I for one account for problems to occur in such a gb, in the end there are lots of humans involved and everyone can make mistakes.
For the communication part i totally agree that this could be better, emails only come after many complaints here which is on the outlines of OK^^... but everytime they fail an expected date they should notify us before we start to "cry". Whom to fault there? Idk, ZFrontier seems like the party who handle the money part to let us feel more secure (assumtions!!! but imagine we wouldn't have ZF and would have given the money directly to Elemento, that would have worried me) and about Elemento i don't know nothing... maybe they have lots of work with other gbs, maybe it's just one human doing this as a hobby besides a 10 hour day job and caring about two kids.
TLDR: keep calm and clack on and to elemeto/zfrontier: more updates please <3

I understand that I am joining a groupbuy and there can be long wait times, however I have bought a product which was sold by a reputable source and had feasible timescales. The board should of originally been here in July; with everything going smoothly. This has then been pushed back because of issues to September so that they can get work done. I have had to accept this if I want the product, however for those who don't have buyer protection, they are now in for the full ride. I also feel that 3 months is a long enough period of time for them to get things back under control and a new solution to be sorted. However the updates (Or lack there of) have made me question if that 3 month period has been long enough for them to complete this task. It has also made me question on how much ZFrontier are managing Elemento.

I can understand if they have got long work hours, a family, other commitments, however an update takes 30 minutes to write. It puts us all at ease and allows us to understand where we are at in the process. However we are being blindly lead right now which I am not okay with. I will follow your sentiment of: More updates please <3

Online HotRoderX

  • Posts: 542
Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #192 on: Thu, 13 September 2018, 10:55:15 »

Well, since it's someone else behind the production they can't influence that too much, however if things go wrong I'm sure they'd either look for other means to get it done or refund the money. (I don't mistrust them in that regard)

As for the lack of updates and not replying to mails, that's a no no. I know they've been extremely busy lately, but that's not an excuse.

Well actually ZFrontier should be able to have an influence on this. They should be the ones steering the ship and making regular checks on Elemento and not just allowing to do their own thing. Especially when they find a manufacturer and then it becomes evident that the manufacturer can't do the work. At this point if I were ZFrontier I would be managing Elemento on a weekly basis, if not more frequent as they are dragging the ZFrontier brand through the mud.
Imho the ZFrontier brand is as good as it was before this gb, after all this is still a GB. Let me cite from "What is a group buy? Should I join one? Group Buy FAQ / Buying Guidelines": "And it takes months, sometimes a year+ for group buys to complete.  Be prepared to wait."
This is a more or less complex product unlike some keycaps from GMK i.e., where you gather money, give it to them and the rest will be fine. Here you have to work with not one but several manufacturers to get a complete product and if one thing fails the whole product is on hold. I for one account for problems to occur in such a gb, in the end there are lots of humans involved and everyone can make mistakes.
For the communication part i totally agree that this could be better, emails only come after many complaints here which is on the outlines of OK^^... but everytime they fail an expected date they should notify us before we start to "cry". Whom to fault there? Idk, ZFrontier seems like the party who handle the money part to let us feel more secure (assumtions!!! but imagine we wouldn't have ZF and would have given the money directly to Elemento, that would have worried me) and about Elemento i don't know nothing... maybe they have lots of work with other gbs, maybe it's just one human doing this as a hobby besides a 10 hour day job and caring about two kids.
TLDR: keep calm and clack on and to elemeto/zfrontier: more updates please <3

I understand that I am joining a groupbuy and there can be long wait times, however I have bought a product which was sold by a reputable source and had feasible timescales. The board should of originally been here in July; with everything going smoothly. This has then been pushed back because of issues to September so that they can get work done. I have had to accept this if I want the product, however for those who don't have buyer protection, they are now in for the full ride. I also feel that 3 months is a long enough period of time for them to get things back under control and a new solution to be sorted. However the updates (Or lack there of) have made me question if that 3 month period has been long enough for them to complete this task. It has also made me question on how much ZFrontier are managing Elemento.

I can understand if they have got long work hours, a family, other commitments, however an update takes 30 minutes to write. It puts us all at ease and allows us to understand where we are at in the process. However we are being blindly lead right now which I am not okay with. I will follow your sentiment of: More updates please <3

Honestly you shouldn't enter group buy's make this one your last. Look at ESPECTRO look at the up's down and everything with it. Most of us no longer have buyer protection either. Its a risk you take when you go into a group buy. There was a possibility it be done in 40 day's that was back in like February/March. The group buy runner even forgot about geekhack and for the longest time was only posting updates to discord. He has done everything he can reasonably be expected to do to get the boards produced thought. I am excited to get mine, I am also nervous but mostly excited.

Then to top it off keep in mind this isn't the only group buy Z-Frontier is running while you think its the most important cause your a part of it. They have most likely dozen others there managing that are the most important group buy to the people in them also. I am sure its a balancing act of trying to get information get out updates. Keep people focused etc etc. 

Offline nathanchere

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #193 on: Fri, 14 September 2018, 02:54:02 »
Honestly you shouldn't enter group buy's make this one your last. Look at ESPECTRO look at the up's down and everything with it. Most of us no longer have buyer protection either. Its a risk you take when you go into a group buy. There was a possibility it be done in 40 day's that was back in like February/March. The group buy runner even forgot about geekhack and for the longest time was only posting updates to discord. He has done everything he can reasonably be expected to do to get the boards produced thought. I am excited to get mine, I am also nervous but mostly excited.

Then to top it off keep in mind this isn't the only group buy Z-Frontier is running while you think its the most important cause your a part of it. They have most likely dozen others there managing that are the most important group buy to the people in them also. I am sure its a balancing act of trying to get information get out updates. Keep people focused etc etc.

No, this kind of overly apologetic attitude is why so many group buys are still cluster****s. Because anyone who speaks up is all too often written off as a cry baby and "why didn't you read the rules - you give money, we promise nothing!". Z-frontier is not a small 2-person startup working out of their basement hand-crafting timeless heirlooms with love. They are essentially the Massdrop of the East, and it is 100% reasonable to expect better communication and honoring their initial commitments than what has happened here. I would argue that anyone who takes money from others has the same expectation if not necessarily the same capacity. Instead of "if continual delays and **** communication bothers you, don't join a group buy", how about "if you don't know what the **** you're doing and can't be bothered keeping customers informed, don't run a group buy"? The "oh well" attitude only serves to perpetuate the problems instead of offer any promise that things will get better with time.


Online darthzero

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Re: [GB] ELEMENTO X zFrontier. Fr87 GB ended.
« Reply #195 on: Tue, 25 September 2018, 05:34:32 »
Edit: nvm..
« Last Edit: Tue, 25 September 2018, 05:44:27 by darthzero »