Author Topic: What was original price on Model M and Space Saving KB? (Read 31806 times)

phototristan · « **on:** Tue, 20 April 2010, 14:17:27 »

I'm just curious, what were the IBM Model M and Space Saving keyboards priced at when they were sold in stores?

Also, what does 'Model M' mean?

As an aside, I remember in about 1997 buying the Apple Extended Keyboard II for $185. + tax. The lady checking receipts at the store (Fry's) was shocked I would spend so much on a keyboard. But it was worth every penny. Too bad the casing on those turn yellow though. The Model M is better both in that regard and to type on.

ch_123 · « **Reply #1 on:** Tue, 20 April 2010, 14:39:29 »

Can't remember my sources for some of them, but -

Model F XT - $350-400.
Model F AT - Around the same
Model M - (originally) $250
Model M - (Lexmark days) $150 (possibly eased down to $100 towards the end of IBM-branded production)
Model M15 - $179, $199 with numpad

All prices are in the contemporary dollar values, unadjusted for inflation or the like.

Chuck once said that Unicomp used to sell the 84-keys for $69. I haven't seen any non-IBM branded Unicomp 84-keys, so it's ambigious as to when they cost that much. I'd say Chuck or Jim would probably know quite a bit about this.

phototristan · « **Reply #2 on:** Tue, 20 April 2010, 20:22:52 »

Thanks. Wow, they were pretty expensive keyboards I guess.

microsoft windows · « **Reply #3 on:** Tue, 20 April 2010, 20:37:34 »

Remember, though, those were just retail units. Most Model M's came with IBM's computers, so their price isn't really solid.

phototristan · « **Reply #4 on:** Tue, 20 April 2010, 20:40:33 »

So when buying an IBM PS/2 at the time, did the customer have a choice between a clicky one and a rubber dome one?

Mental Hobbit · « **Reply #5 on:** Tue, 20 April 2010, 21:15:22 »

Quote from: ripster;173960

A Unicomp goes today for $70 using American labor. That is a more interesting number especially compared to a Filco.

Why? Unicomps are simple membrane keyboards slammed together by a machine. Filcos use separate switches, each carefully carved by a German engineer, then shipped to Taiwan, then slammed into a board by Chinese slave workers. No wonder Filcos are more expensive.

iMav · « **Reply #6 on:** Tue, 20 April 2010, 21:25:31 »

Quote from: ch_123;173845

Chuck once said that Unicomp used to sell the 84-keys for $69. I haven't seen any non-IBM branded Unicomp 84-keys, so it's ambigious as to when they cost that much. I'd say Chuck or Jim would probably know quite a bit about this.

Jim sold me the last one to me back in the fall of 2007.

$59

I eventually sold it to webwit for a bit more then that.

kishy · « **Reply #7 on:** Tue, 20 April 2010, 21:50:03 »

Quote from: phototristan;173959

So when buying an IBM PS/2 at the time, did the customer have a choice between a clicky one and a rubber dome one?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but AFAIK the rubber dome ones were a Lexmark "innovation", so anything prior to that change probably wouldn't have been available with one.

I'd be curious to figure out what shipped with both of my PS/2s originally. Probably no way to know for sure though...

ch_123 · « **Reply #8 on:** Wed, 21 April 2010, 03:26:57 »

Quote from: microsoft windows;173957

Remember, though, those were just retail units. Most Model M's came with IBM's computers, so their price isn't really solid.

I'm sure you would have paid the same if you needed to replace one.

Quote

So when buying an IBM PS/2 at the time, did the customer have a choice between a clicky one and a rubber dome one?

I dont think the rubber dome comes came along until after the PS/2 went out of production in 1994.

The successors of the PS/2 all appeared to come with rubber dome keyboards as far as I can tell, so the Model Ms must have been an optional extra.

The rubber dome Model M2 for the PS/1 appeared to be quite common, especially for schools and libraries.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #9 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 01:43:55 »

lol, waraka, you might want to work on your english skills. mental hobbit is referring to wage slaves in china which is fairly common knowledge.

anyway, everyone knows there is no real slavery in china.

Quote

you are one ****ing racist ****
...
Don't let your white superior-ism blind you

watch your language and dont let your chinese nationalism blind you?

hyperlinked · « **Reply #10 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 01:48:40 »

Quote from: warakawa;174319

you are one ****ing racist ****, get your fact straight!

That's totally uncalled for and also entirely off base. Her comment had nothing to do with insulting the Taiwanese and I'm guessing that you're Taiwanese.

It was a jab at the premium pricing of Filco boards and also a jab at labor practices in China and companies exploting loose labor laws.

You're completely out of line.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #11 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 01:55:12 »

he's probably working for the chinese government

China pays 280K people to boost its Web image

they should get their money back.

hyperlinked · « **Reply #12 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 02:11:04 »

Quote from: wellington1869;174323

they should get their money back.

Elsewhere in the world, people are too stupid to ask for money to hyperventilate online. They do it for free.

Thanks to every website wanting to "out social" every other website, we get to read pointless logic-less slobber on every site we happen to visit. I used to be a online communities evangelist of sorts. Now I just get depressed everytime I accidentally read the comments for an article on a newspaper's site or the stuff that passes for "discussion" on most public outlets.

There are so many people in the world and so little IQ to go around. *sigh*

Some days, I want my 300 baud modem and relatively small, but global Usenet world back.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #13 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 02:14:26 »

Quote from: hyperlinked;174325

Elsewhere in the world, people are too stupid to ask for money to hyperventilate online. They do it for free.

lol! think of all the money we've lost ;-D
There must be some dictatorial regime out there that shares my views on switches

Otterclock · « **Reply #14 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 02:27:56 »

hyperlinked · « **Reply #15 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 02:46:41 »

Quote from: warakawa;174329

quoting from two CNN sources, good on ya. You are so blinded by the western media that I pity you more than those working on "slave" wage in China.

As a Mandarin speaking Chinese-American with family both in Taiwan and in China, I'm having a really fun time watching you get worked up over nothing. Welly original comment was spot on. I think you're reading too much into Hobbit's comments. You're looking for a fight where there isn't one.

Saying that there are people working for slave wages isn't the same thing as saying all Chinese people are slaves and if you don't think there aren't people working like slaves in China, you're the one who's got to stop allowing yourself to get brainwashed because there are people in every country in this world working under slave labor conditions. China can't possibly be the only exception in the world.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #16 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 02:48:54 »

Quote from: warakawa;174329

mental hobbit's comment was clearly racial.

no, it was not. not even close.

Quote

If she was only referring to the unregulated work practices in China, that was out of context, first learn the difference between Republic of China and People's Republic of China.

wage slaves are wage slaves, wherever they are.

Quote

You are so blinded by the western media

yea, its crazy having an uncensored internet. Dont know how i'll ever get used to it.

Quote

my internet is uncensored

You must really hate it, huh? You get to see all kinds of criticism. It clearly is driving you up the wall.

Quote

Remember during the tibet rioting of 2008, Chinese nationalism fueled not by Chinese people's love for communism but by biased media reporting

1. which they dont have access to anyway
2. it makes perfect sense that the right way to respond to criticism about imperialism is to become a flag waving imperialist

Quote

this is like a 30 year old point and laughing at a 13 year old for being short.

More like a 30 year old telling a 13 year old not to use abusive language and not to jump to utterly unfounded conclusions. Thats what 30 year olds are for.

Quote

do you know what a developing nation mean?

as a matter of fact, I do. And once again you're jumping to conclusions by assuming your critics are white. You should really stop jumping so much in public.

ch_123 · « **Reply #17 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 03:15:26 »

Quote from: warakawa;174329

wellington: you can quote from BBC/CNN all you want, like most overseas Chinese, we are used to it, but we are unaffected by it. China is a developing nation, do you know what a developing nation mean? It means the countries is in the process of developing...in economy, in military, in legal institutions, in education .......developing in everything. You are from a developed nation, and here you are posting imperfections of a developing nation, this is like a 30 year old point and laughing at a 13 year old for being short. You must be very proud.

I guess the murder, rape, torture and genocide in Sudan is "development" too, right?

Quote

If she was only referring to the unregulated work practices in China, that was out of context, first learn the difference between Republic of China and People's Republic of China.

If I went into aspie raeg everytime someone mixed up Ireland with the UK here...

wellington1869 · « **Reply #18 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 03:24:21 »

warakawa's automatic assumption that his critics are white seems pretty deeply racist to me. Why are you a racist, warakawa?

and do you really want to talk about "biased media" too? Really? As opposed to any other kind of media in China today? Nothing like "state television" to set the record straight for us all.

And according to the GDP link you posted, China is hardly to be considered a 'developing' third world nation anymore. Wonder how long you'll continue to use that excuse when convenient though.

So by your own actions you're showing china to be an imperialistic, racist, dictatorial, biased, economic and expansionist juggernaut. Nice job!

wellington1869 · « **Reply #19 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 03:39:59 »

like i said, he works for the chinese govt. we've got a genuine one over here folks.

you forgot to mention how mussolini made the trains run on time, too.

good luck with that fascism thing, warakawa. It explains everything preceding. good night to all!

hyperlinked · « **Reply #20 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 03:40:31 »

Quote from: warakawa;174335

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85AgLsLbKF0

What!?! You represent an economic superpower and you STILL CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW TO EMBED A YOUTUBE VIDEO? What kind of ¥1 phony are you?

Here, let me help you.

Geeeeeeeezzzz!

hyperlinked · « **Reply #21 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 03:41:58 »

Quote from: wellington1869;174336

like i said, he works for the chinese govt. we've got a genuine one over here folks.

I think you may be right. He must be working for... SLAVE WAGES.

His local party office will be happy... "Hmmm... how much time did you spend posting to this Japanese keyboard loving Geekhack site?"

wellington1869 · « **Reply #22 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 03:44:48 »

Quote from: hyperlinked;174338

Must be working for... SLAVE WAGES.

ooooh now you've gone and done it ;-D

wellington1869 · « **Reply #23 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 03:56:33 »

Quote from: hyperlinked;174338

His local party office will be happy... "Hmmm... how much time did you spend posting to this Japanese keyboard loving Geekhack site?"

i think i found him!

and he's using a rubber dome!

ch_123 · « **Reply #24 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 04:21:22 »

Quote from: warakawa;174342

Be thankful for the things you god buddy, you don't want your next iphone 4g to cost $3000 without chinese "slave" labour

Isn't that what it costs anyway?

Mental Hobbit · « **Reply #25 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 05:25:22 »

I'm offended by Warakawa calling me a "she". This is an outrageously sexist remark.

Mental Hobbit · « **Reply #26 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 06:01:53 »

What's wrong with my keyboard? It's made in Taiwan. Are you mocking the Taiwanese people's choice of color?

skcheng · « **Reply #27 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 06:20:14 »

Amazing how this forum can go so completely off-topic?? How a simple question about original pricing can turn into a communism/democracy debate is beyond me??? Geez.....

HaaTa · « **Reply #28 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 06:28:43 »

You know what I think the Chinese need, moar bacon.

Why, cause it's tasty.

No peameal bacon though, us Canadians like to keep it for ourselves.

iMav · « **Reply #29 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 07:46:47 »

Quote from: ripster;174310

Actually technically I don't think it was the very LAST one. I'll leave it up to another Geekhack member to expand on this. Or you can call Unicomp.

I'm just going by what Jim Owens told me. I wanted to buy additional ones and he said the one I bought was their last one (I saved the email).

I don't own it any more, so it doesn't really matter to me (in fact, I'd much rather they still sell them today). I would, however, be interested in knowing who did get the last one and why Jim was holding out when I had money to spend.

itlnstln · « **Reply #30 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 08:00:32 »

Just like ALPS and Cherry, Unicomp makes decisions we cannot comprehend. It seems that quality keyboard companies do not want to make money.

bigpook · « **Reply #31 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 09:22:11 »

I am sure Unicomp wants to make money, its just they probably don't have the capital to invest in new machinery or for preventive maintenance.

As a side note, I recently ordered a spacesaver from them. I can safely say that the quality of the case is substandard compared to the unicomps I got a few years ago.. Its still got all of the clicky goodness though. But overall they are in decline.

bigpook · « **Reply #32 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 09:49:22 »

No. I got a white one and for the most part it looks good. But the lower right corner has a little bit of play where the the top and bottom case meet. I checked on the older spacesaver and customizer I have and they are tight.

Its been thrashed here before and I ain't going to argue against it but the overall quality of Unicomp is a couple of notches below a real IBM Model M.

Does that mean its a bad keyboard? No, not at all. But the fit and finish fall short when compared to an HHKB or Filco.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #33 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 10:06:50 »

i cant believe we got back on topic after that epic derail.

ch_123 · « **Reply #34 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 10:07:25 »

One guy over in the quality thread posted weight statistics for his Model Ms... his 2006-made Customizer was 200g lighter than his 2009 one... a 10% weight decrease is pretty noteworthy...

Mental Hobbit · « **Reply #35 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 10:43:23 »

Quote from: ch_123;174448

One guy over in the quality thread posted weight statistics for his Model Ms... his 2006-made Customizer was 200g lighter than his 2009 one... a 10% weight decrease is pretty noteworthy...

That's something I just don't understand. Do 200g of plastic really have a measurable effect on manufacturing cost? Obviously more than the 50g Cherry saves with their wimpy keycaps, but still...

The alternative would be just raising prices. I doubt a price increase from $69 to $79 would affect their sales at all, they're not in the bargain segment anyway. Everybody saying Unicomps feel cheaper than real IBMs certainly hurts them more.

Would be easy to find out. They could just dig up their old casting molds, make the beefiest board they can, call it Deluxe, put a $100-120 price tag on it and see if it sells. Wouldn't take any investment.

phototristan · « **Reply #36 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 10:45:11 »

When I had a Unicomp, I noticed no difference in the feel/quailty of the keys or springs but did notice a slight quality difference in the casing, original Model M had a better fit and finish and just felt a bit more solid overall when tapping on the casing.

I believe I also did a weight comparison at the time and the original Model M was indeed heavier.

itlnstln · « **Reply #37 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 11:01:13 »

Quote from: wellington1869;174447

i cant believe we got back on topic after that epic derail.

It's an illusion. We just derailed enough times to where we just happened to be on Model Ms in a Model M thread. We will derail again soon enough.

ch_123 · « **Reply #38 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 11:10:23 »

Quote from: Mental Hobbit;174462

That's something I just don't understand. Do 200g of plastic really have a measurable effect on manufacturing cost? Obviously more than the 50g Cherry saves with their wimpy keycaps, but still...

The alternative would be just raising prices. I doubt a price increase from $69 to $79 would affect their sales at all, they're not in the bargain segment anyway. Everybody saying Unicomps feel cheaper than real IBMs certainly hurts them more.

Would be easy to find out. They could just dig up their old casting molds, make the beefiest board they can, call it Deluxe, put a $100-120 price tag on it and see if it sells. Wouldn't take any investment.

They appear to be using the same 42H' casting that Lexmark started using in 1995. Perhaps it's to do with their old machinery ****ting out?

wellington1869 · « **Reply #39 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 11:28:42 »

Quote from: ripster;174477

Subcontracting to China?

are you insinuating that these guys...

cant produce the same thing as these guys?:

Shocking. ;-D

Somewhere in China a military alert has gone off.

ch_123 · « **Reply #40 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 11:31:05 »

Their casings tend to have "GENERAL ELECTRIC" markings, is there any significance to this?

wellington1869 · « **Reply #41 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 11:34:19 »

Quote from: ch_123;174482

Their casings tend to have "GENERAL ELECTRIC" markings, is there any significance to this?

could it be GE Plastics?

itlnstln · « **Reply #42 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 11:34:34 »

GE might have built the molding machinery.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #43 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 11:37:04 »

Quote from: ripster;174487

You're going off topic again.

hey, it was on topic -- assembly line quality... and the efficacy of slave labor vs paid labor on unicomp casings.

bigpook · « **Reply #44 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 11:40:38 »

Quote from: ripster;174438

Yeah, true dat.

Still, $70 for a NIB Buckling Spring ain't bad these days.

I can't argue that. Even though the case quality is a little off, I still love the feel of the keys. The unicomp is still a good value at $70.
I have three of them now....I must like them or something.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #45 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 11:50:23 »

I'll bet that train will run on time.

yup, and the germans developed jet engines and were working on nukes. Mussolini made the trains run on time. They were still fascists. and the nazi youth defended them with 'food in belly' arguments too.

Except they werent paid for their online time.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #46 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 11:58:37 »

ah, herr commandant, right on time. I like that in a young imperialist.

Quote

even though americans are begging us for money.

Actually we're begging for your consumer market, which will eventually produce the bourgeoise class that will topple your precious communist government.

You might be easily bought out with cash, but the next generation of chinese wont be. Clock is ticking, my Maoist friend.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #47 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 12:00:40 »

Quote from: warakawa;174499

free texas

I also love how a maoist can ally with religious evangelicals. I guess if the communist government can purchase loyalty in exchange for consumer products, it can purchase just about anything.

itlnstln · « **Reply #48 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 12:02:52 »

Quote from: warakawa;174499

free texas

No joke. I'll join that campaign.

Your TX news for the week:

A gay couple, now living in Dallas, were married 6 years ago in MA. This year (or maybe late last year), they wanted to get a divorce (in TX). The divorce was granted and finalized in a TX district court. A higher court overturned the result, because gay marriage is illegal in TX. In the eyes of the state, the marriage does not exist; therefore, you can't divorce a marriage that does not exist.

Brilliant.

wellington1869 · « **Reply #49 on:** Thu, 22 April 2010, 12:03:16 »

Quote from: warakawa;174505

tibet is free, free from Dalai lama

Right, "free" -- while the commies destroyed their culture, their temples, and chased the dalai lama from the country, censor and control their media and the universities. That english language problem again. What does "free" mean again?

News:

Author Topic: What was original price on Model M and Space Saving KB? (Read 31806 times)