Author Topic: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018  (Read 1612 times)

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Offline Will@MD

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Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 13:04:25 »
Hello Friends,

Thanks for the cautious optimism and robust discussion! This was exciting to follow and I’m glad most folks are open to seeing how we (MD + Mod Team) handle things going forward. As promised, here are some answers to your questions from our announcement thread:

Q: At what point can the GB threads be organized so it isn’t a jumbled mess? Right now there is no easy way to sort through this..

A: We’re not making any immediate changes but we (MD + Mod Team) have discussed a couple options that could improve GB thread navigation. The present state of organization is confusing and this problem impacts a lot of members so we’ll continue the discussion and gather feedback from the community when ready.


Q: What do you want me to do with my monthly donation? Cancel or keep it going?

A: You can cancel it.


Q: Will my @geekhack.org email address continue to work and redirect or will I have to contact someone about that?

A: Our engineering team is just starting to parse the back-end systems of GH. Once we have the complete picture, we’ll know whether or not we can continue the email server service. We’ll post an update on this before anything changes.


Q: What was the final sale price?

A: The structure of our agreements make it impossible to share the final sale price.


Q: Does this mean we will see geekhack labeled merc/devices on massdrop?

A: We have no plans for gh branded merch or devices at this point.


Q: Will vendors or individuals who advertise platforms that seek to compete directly with Massdrop in the mechanical keyboard space see any pushback, or will any initiative be allowed here?

A: The geekhack marketplace will remain an independent community-run section where any vendor or individual can post. Massdrop won't interfere in who can and can't obtain vendor status.


Q: Will Massdrop remain a vendor with their own vendor subforum alongside all the others, or will you use ownership of the forum to more prominently position Massdrop-related projects?

A: We never did much with our sub-forum, and have no plans to change that at the moment. We aren’t interested in using our ownership to advertise Massdrop products.


Q: Will everyone still be free to openly express dislike for Massdrop, its products, or its practices without fear of censorship or retaliation?

A: Yup, you’re free to be critical without repercussions, same as everyone on Massdrop.


Q: Will Massdrop agree to yield to the existing administration and moderation team with regards to changes to the forum's structure or rules, or will you reserve the right to change anything at any time if unilaterally deemed necessary?

A: Short answer is yes. Long answer is, there are laws and regulations by which we must abide, that perhaps an independent forum owner would risk ignoring. If some law/regulation, like GDPR (which we’ll be making a longer post about in the weeks ahead) requires we change something about the forum, we have to comply.


Q: The recent GMK Keycap sets on MD have reacher much higher numbers than ever on GH. This is in most ways a benefit; 1) they actually get produced, 2) prices usually are lower. Would MD host GMK Keycap GB’s that originate from GH and if so; would actual proxies be an option? As someone from the EU buying via MD has always been an incredible expensive option (mostly due to customs and higher shipping prices), plus it just feels wrong and weird that a Keycap set from GMK get’s shipped from the EU to USA then back to EU.

A: We already host GMK Keycap GB’s that originate from GH but expanding our logistics network to include asian and european fulfillment centers is a priority for us. Right now we’re in the process of hiring a new Head of Logistics, with international expansion as a critical part of the skillset.



Beyond these direction questions, there are a couple topics that seem worth touching on.

GDPR/Data/Platform Security, our engineering team just started looking into it. We’ll share more information on these topics when we have a better understanding of what we’re dealing with.

“Master plan”/sinister implications. Some folks posted suggesting my announcement was intentionally vague because we have some broader, secretive plan for what we’re really going to do with GH. While I find your confidence flattering, I did not formulate a secretive master plan in the 36 hours between messaging iMav and posting our announcement. The appropriate operating principles (ie, don’t change anything) seemed pretty obvious, and that’s what we’re doing. 

We appreciate for your cautious optimism folks! We’ll collect more questions between now and Tuesday, and you can expect a more or less continual Q/A in this thread as long as you have questions to ask.

Best,

Will


Offline livingspeedbump

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 13:24:02 »
Thanks for posting this and giving us all some transparency. So far liking what I see  :thumb:

Will post any questions I may have as they come up.
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Offline digi

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 13:28:22 »
We're liking what we see!! GO MASSDROP!! :thumb:

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 13:31:23 »
What a treat.
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Online romevi

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 13:58:24 »
Is it officially "Geekhack" now?

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 14:03:25 »
Is it officially "Geekhack" now?

It's not.  I think it was just capitalized for symmetry.
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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 14:32:15 »
“Master plan”/sinister implications. Some folks posted suggesting my announcement was intentionally vague because we have some broader, secretive plan for what we’re really going to do with GH. While I find your confidence flattering, I did not formulate a secretive master plan in the 36 hours between messaging iMav and posting our announcement. The appropriate operating principles (ie, don’t change anything) seemed pretty obvious, and that’s what we’re doing.

All I could think of is DR evil in his secret volcano layer petting Mr Biggles Worth. Seriously the way some people act I bet they honestly think most major corporations have a secret hidden layer inside a volcano or what have ya!

But in Seriousness thanks for the write up. Sounds like my hope for the future is and will continue to be well placed.

Online romevi

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 14:49:23 »
Is it officially "Geekhack" now?

It's not.  I think it was just capitalized for symmetry.

Oh, phew.

Offline mbsurfer

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 15:03:04 »
Glad to see transparency, and plans for the future. So far so good!

Offline grizzly_teddy

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 15:04:18 »
Hello Friends,

Q: At what point can the GB threads be organized so it isn’t a jumbled mess? Right now there is no easy way to sort through this..

I think a lot of the organizational problems stem from the root design of SMF. I mentioned this in the other thread, but I would love to see GH completely move away from SMF. Although, I don't really have any suggestions because I don't know all the options - but I think some things don't belong on a forum like this.

For example with group buys - I think a web page (possibly hosted on Massdrop, for example https://www.massdrop.com/mechanical-keyboards/all-group-buys or something. I think it requires a good amount of thought to make this right - and usable. To me, forums like this are only slightly more user friendly than IRC.

And if you are going to tell me how amazing IRC is - that is fine. It is a valid opinion. But for the majority of non-techy people - you want the interaction to be easy to navigate. Clear. Clean. And not look like a hacker forum. Well, it is called "Geekhack", so maybe that is the look we want to go for - but I don't think it is. We want more collaboration. We want new keyboard enthusiasts to join the conversation - even if they are not technical people. The way GH looks now, to a regular person, it screams, "Oh dang, this is one of those sites for really devoted and weird people". This is my opinion but I can tell you that I have not bothered posting on Geekhack simply because I hate navigating it and finding things and because of how it looks. I resort to Discord or Reddit. This is like my 5th comment ever and I only came here because I heard about MD buying GH.
> The way GH looks now, to a regular person, it screams, "Oh dang, this is one of **those** sites for really devoted and weird people".

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 19:29:14 »
Ok, I'm a bit more cautiously optimistic at this point. Looking forward to seeing what a massdrop x geekhack future may hold.
   

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 19:39:30 »


The way GH looks now, to a regular person, it screams, "Oh dang, this is one of those sites

Yeah this is one of those sites, that's the best part of it.

It isn't for everyone, maybe you should just look for a site that works for you, they're new ones popping up all the time.

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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 19:41:28 »
The way GH looks now, to a regular person, it screams, "Oh dang, this is one of those sites for really devoted and weird people".

Signature material right there.
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Offline sth

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 21:45:40 »
To whom do I direct account deletion requests to?
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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 22:51:13 »
Hello Friends,

Q: At what point can the GB threads be organized so it isn’t a jumbled mess? Right now there is no easy way to sort through this..

I think a lot of the organizational problems stem from the root design of SMF. I mentioned this in the other thread, but I would love to see GH completely move away from SMF. Although, I don't really have any suggestions because I don't know all the options - but I think some things don't belong on a forum like this.

For example with group buys - I think a web page (possibly hosted on Massdrop, for example https://www.massdrop.com/mechanical-keyboards/all-group-buys or something. I think it requires a good amount of thought to make this right - and usable. To me, forums like this are only slightly more user friendly than IRC.

And if you are going to tell me how amazing IRC is - that is fine. It is a valid opinion. But for the majority of non-techy people - you want the interaction to be easy to navigate. Clear. Clean. And not look like a hacker forum. Well, it is called "Geekhack", so maybe that is the look we want to go for - but I don't think it is. We want more collaboration. We want new keyboard enthusiasts to join the conversation - even if they are not technical people. The way GH looks now, to a regular person, it screams, "Oh dang, this is one of those sites for really devoted and weird people". This is my opinion but I can tell you that I have not bothered posting on Geekhack simply because I hate navigating it and finding things and because of how it looks. I resort to Discord or Reddit. This is like my 5th comment ever and I only came here because I heard about MD buying GH.

I can't even fathom how one would think reddit is prettier and easier to navigate than a standard forum like this.

Offline jwaz

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 06 July 2018, 22:59:19 »
To whom do I direct account deletion requests to?

/dev/null

😘

Offline Eris_

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 07 July 2018, 06:27:29 »
Has anyone said at any point why Massdrop bought Geekhack or why Geekhack sold out? What do you sleazebags stand to gain? I can imagine a vendor owning such a site could be somewhat of a conflict of interest...

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 07 July 2018, 11:14:51 »
If anyone has missed it, this was the original "sale" thread, which should give some insight: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96404.0
And for "sale therapy", please proceed here: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=96431.0
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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 07 July 2018, 11:17:04 »
Has anyone said at any point why Massdrop bought Geekhack or why Geekhack sold out? What do you sleazebags stand to gain? I can imagine a vendor owning such a site could be somewhat of a conflict of interest...

lol who are you?

You could read the numerous threads at this point and learn that the original owner of geekhack simply didn't have the resources nor desire to keep paying to own this website so that is how it "sold out"

and again, if you'd read anything- you'd learn... that massdrop bought it because they wanted to (at least now) preserve the website and help organically partner with and support the community.

Some people's kids, I swear.
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Offline Puddsy

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 07 July 2018, 12:59:36 »
Hello Friends,

Q: At what point can the GB threads be organized so it isn’t a jumbled mess? Right now there is no easy way to sort through this..

I think a lot of the organizational problems stem from the root design of SMF. I mentioned this in the other thread, but I would love to see GH completely move away from SMF. Although, I don't really have any suggestions because I don't know all the options - but I think some things don't belong on a forum like this.

For example with group buys - I think a web page (possibly hosted on Massdrop, for example https://www.massdrop.com/mechanical-keyboards/all-group-buys or something. I think it requires a good amount of thought to make this right - and usable. To me, forums like this are only slightly more user friendly than IRC.

And if you are going to tell me how amazing IRC is - that is fine. It is a valid opinion. But for the majority of non-techy people - you want the interaction to be easy to navigate. Clear. Clean. And not look like a hacker forum. Well, it is called "Geekhack", so maybe that is the look we want to go for - but I don't think it is. We want more collaboration. We want new keyboard enthusiasts to join the conversation - even if they are not technical people. The way GH looks now, to a regular person, it screams, "Oh dang, this is one of those sites for really devoted and weird people". This is my opinion but I can tell you that I have not bothered posting on Geekhack simply because I hate navigating it and finding things and because of how it looks. I resort to Discord or Reddit. This is like my 5th comment ever and I only came here because I heard about MD buying GH.

I can't even fathom how one would think reddit is prettier and easier to navigate than a standard forum like this.

agree

never understood this criticism of GH
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has puddsy gotten an award for person most involved with things hes not involved in at all, yet?

Offline sth

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 09 July 2018, 17:32:47 »
To whom do I direct account deletion requests to?

/dev/null

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eat my actual butt luser
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Offline grizzly_teddy

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 10 July 2018, 08:53:30 »
The way GH looks now, to a regular person, it screams, "Oh dang, this is one of those sites for really devoted and weird people".

Signature material right there.

Haha you're right. I'll make it my own.

Anyway I think people here are missing my point a little. First off, it isn't GeekHack - it is more about the underlying framework/design, which is established by SMF. I think I have to be more specific about why I think this design is fundamentally flawed.

Someone suggested to me the good thing about this design, is that you could have a GB thread that lasts forever.  4 years after the thread was created, there is an update to that GB. To me, that is not a good thing. Now this thread, which is 4 years old, goes straight to the top. Right above a new thread was just created. I don't like that. Not one bit. If I am a new member of this forum, I don't even know if I should bother opening up that 4 year old thread. Who knows what is in there? And if I did want to see - I would have to read pages of comments to catch up - just to find out at the end it wasn't really relevant to me.

There is a co-mingling of priorities and I think it is poor design. Stickys are good, and GH has things Reddit doesn't, like grouping into sub-forums by topic. But at the same time, Reddit has tags which can serve the same purpose. There is more organization in general - so at the end of the day it is better than Reddit in a way, but in some ways it isn't. Neither Reddit or SMF to me provide an ideal solution. Obviously another implementation costs time and money. I get that. But I think we should recognize the limitations and user-unfriendliness of GH.

But like I said before, maybe that is what we want? Maybe we don't want tons of kids and stupid people getting on these forums. That is an acceptable opinion.
> The way GH looks now, to a regular person, it screams, "Oh dang, this is one of **those** sites for really devoted and weird people".

Online csmertx

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 10 July 2018, 09:40:45 »
To whom do I direct account deletion requests to?

/dev/null

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eat my actual butt luser

dang, next time 2> /dev/null :))
   

Offline chuckdee

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 10 July 2018, 12:24:43 »
The way GH looks now, to a regular person, it screams, "Oh dang, this is one of those sites for really devoted and weird people".

Signature material right there.

Haha you're right. I'll make it my own.

Anyway I think people here are missing my point a little. First off, it isn't GeekHack - it is more about the underlying framework/design, which is established by SMF. I think I have to be more specific about why I think this design is fundamentally flawed.

Someone suggested to me the good thing about this design, is that you could have a GB thread that lasts forever.  4 years after the thread was created, there is an update to that GB. To me, that is not a good thing. Now this thread, which is 4 years old, goes straight to the top. Right above a new thread was just created. I don't like that. Not one bit. If I am a new member of this forum, I don't even know if I should bother opening up that 4 year old thread. Who knows what is in there? And if I did want to see - I would have to read pages of comments to catch up - just to find out at the end it wasn't really relevant to me.

There is a co-mingling of priorities and I think it is poor design. Stickys are good, and GH has things Reddit doesn't, like grouping into sub-forums by topic. But at the same time, Reddit has tags which can serve the same purpose. There is more organization in general - so at the end of the day it is better than Reddit in a way, but in some ways it isn't. Neither Reddit or SMF to me provide an ideal solution. Obviously another implementation costs time and money. I get that. But I think we should recognize the limitations and user-unfriendliness of GH.

But like I said before, maybe that is what we want? Maybe we don't want tons of kids and stupid people getting on these forums. That is an acceptable opinion.

I'm not really getting what you're arguing.  It's a forum that acts like a forum?  SMF does it.  Vanilla does it.  Discourse does it.  vBulletin does it.  If a thread is commented on, it goes to the top.  There are varying ways to handle that.  But it is a function of forums.  Reddit is a lot of things- but it's not a forum.  And that's the reason it behaves differently.  Neither is meant/built for handling group buys- it's just a function that they are put to doing.  They could be tailored to that, but that's not the intent I think.  The baseline intent is to be a forum for discussion.  And if you come to a forum- don't you expect a forum?
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Offline Vigrith

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 10 July 2018, 18:09:36 »
Someone suggested to me the good thing about this design, is that you could have a GB thread that lasts forever.  4 years after the thread was created, there is an update to that GB. To me, that is not a good thing. Now this thread, which is 4 years old, goes straight to the top. Right above a new thread was just created. I don't like that. Not one bit. If I am a new member of this forum, I don't even know if I should bother opening up that 4 year old thread. Who knows what is in there? And if I did want to see - I would have to read pages of comments to catch up - just to find out at the end it wasn't really relevant to me.

I'll start by saying, as Hoff stated in the MD x GH thread, this is to do with the actual ethos of the website and the ecosystem it is attempting to maintain/foster - what's best for him and myself may not be the best for you and others.

That said, regarding the quoted portion of your post, what in the absolute every living **** can you possibly even mean by that? What's the problem of a 4 year old thread being at the top? What's the problem with you opening it to see if the information is pertinent to you or not? What's the problem with you having to actually read through the titles of each GB post to see whether or not you care about them? You don't need to read through 40 pages of the Hyperfuse thread to realise it's been bumped because person x hasn't received their set or because the GB runner has posted an update.

Is your attention span REALLY that decrepit? I refuse to believe that's the case. If you see a 40 page long thread, chances are it wasn't created yesterday right. It's common sense, you either click on it or you don't. You can figure out its relevancy without even doing so, but if you'd like to double check click the last page and look around. Takes 2 minutes, not hours. Stop making it a big deal. Many of us enjoy the experience, else the site wouldn't be this popular. WE like that.

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 11 July 2018, 00:56:36 »
I don't really get the argument either.  If I'm a newbie stumbling upon bunny's GMK hyperfuse thread, I click the link to the thread, read the OP and see that it's a closed GB.  Then I'm curious why I'm seeing such an old thread so I go to the last page and see comments about how people are asking for shipping updates.  I can choose to either wonder what's up with that and read through more of the thread, or I just acknowledge that it's a closed GB and move on with my life.

If I don't have the history of that thread and it's just a random post on reddit from bunny about the latest update, then I'll simply have no idea what he's even talking about and I'll have to try searching for other threads on the subject.


And this is all ignoring the fact that with a segmented approach like on reddit, if you're someone running an IC/GB you either have to spam the living hell out of topics whenever you have any important-ish update/reply to someone, or post in an existing thread and hope that somehow everyone will see it (which they definitely won't after even 8 hours when the thread starts to get buried or just the fact that people will not recheck reddit threads they've already looked at once or twice unless they get a red envelope).
« Last Edit: Wed, 11 July 2018, 00:58:13 by a_ak57 »

Offline ojrask

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Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 14 July 2018, 15:28:15 »
Hello Friends,

Q: At what point can the GB threads be organized so it isn’t a jumbled mess? Right now there is no easy way to sort through this..

I think a lot of the organizational problems stem from the root design of SMF. I mentioned this in the other thread, but I would love to see GH completely move away from SMF. Although, I don't really have any suggestions because I don't know all the options - but I think some things don't belong on a forum like this.

For example with group buys - I think a web page (possibly hosted on Massdrop, for example https://www.massdrop.com/mechanical-keyboards/all-group-buys or something. I think it requires a good amount of thought to make this right - and usable. To me, forums like this are only slightly more user friendly than IRC.

And if you are going to tell me how amazing IRC is - that is fine. It is a valid opinion. But for the majority of non-techy people - you want the interaction to be easy to navigate. Clear. Clean. And not look like a hacker forum. Well, it is called "Geekhack", so maybe that is the look we want to go for - but I don't think it is. We want more collaboration. We want new keyboard enthusiasts to join the conversation - even if they are not technical people. The way GH looks now, to a regular person, it screams, "Oh dang, this is one of those sites for really devoted and weird people". This is my opinion but I can tell you that I have not bothered posting on Geekhack simply because I hate navigating it and finding things and because of how it looks. I resort to Discord or Reddit. This is like my 5th comment ever and I only came here because I heard about MD buying GH.

I can't even fathom how one would think reddit is prettier and easier to navigate than a standard forum like this.

Exactly. Reddit is a ****show when it comes to long-term discussions and planning. Great for media, short news, etc. though.
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Offline uncannyapple

  • Posts: 2
Re: Massdrop x Geekhack Q&A July 4 to July 6 2018
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 16 July 2018, 05:07:45 »
If you want to check up on new Group buy threads, isn't there a sorting option to sort by thread creation date from latest ones first?

For example: https://geekhack.org/index.php?board=70.0;sort=first_post;desc

Every vB has it. Even Reddit marketplace has the 'new' tab, useful for finding the latest trades.
« Last Edit: Mon, 16 July 2018, 05:16:10 by uncannyapple »