Author Topic: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - Finished  (Read 109660 times)

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Offline mimalik

  • Posts: 366
Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #200 on: Fri, 16 November 2018, 12:41:23 »
The order had been placed to SP. Refer to Kono Store Weekly Update (11/15):

Quote
We have order acknowledgement from Signature Plastics. We expect these arrive at our warehouse in August 2019.

woot woot, thats gonna be a long wait, but GMK Space Cadet will be delivered by Jan/Feb so that will keep me happy till then.

Offline crykn

  • Posts: 82
Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #201 on: Fri, 16 November 2018, 20:54:07 »
How long will preorders be open?

Offline hhkbp2

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Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #202 on: Fri, 16 November 2018, 21:13:39 »
How long will preorders be open?

Kono Store ordered some extra kits when they placed the order to SP. These kits will be available util they are sold out, as pre-order, or as real product after SP delivers.


Offline hhkbp2

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Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #203 on: Tue, 29 January 2019, 05:15:11 »
It's be quite a while since the order was placed to SP. No much progress since we're waiting on the production queue.

I just checked with Kono that SP would make some samples for Symbiosis after Troubled Minds is done in a few weeks. I will keep updating if there is any news or progress. Thanks for your support and patience!

Happy Chinese New Year!


Offline cyriously

  • Posts: 25
Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #204 on: Tue, 29 January 2019, 09:19:21 »
Bought the kits some weeks ago in zF.
It says pre-order, so I should be fine right?
Will zF have the extras too (supposedly will be shipped by Kono)?

Sorry for asking it here! Because zF customer support is near non-existent.

Offline Starius

  • Posts: 478
Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #205 on: Tue, 29 January 2019, 09:22:45 »
Thanks for the update!  Even in times of little actual progress, just keeping in touch is appreciated!

I'm still very much looking forward to this set, as I'm planning to use it on my S7 Elephant. 

211618-0

Offline hhkbp2

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Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #206 on: Tue, 29 January 2019, 09:44:46 »
Bought the kits some weeks ago in zF.
It says pre-order, so I should be fine right?
Will zF have the extras too (supposedly will be shipped by Kono)?

Sorry for asking it here! Because zF customer support is near non-existent.

Both Kono and zFrontier ordered a few extra kits for their pre-order sale after the GB closed. And Kono acts as the main vendor to summarize all the numbers/money and then place the order to SP. Your order should be fine as long as you placed your order successfully in ZF.

Don't worry about asking any question here. I will try my best to answer your question and to help.

Offline hhkbp2

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Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #207 on: Tue, 29 January 2019, 10:06:32 »
Thanks for the update!  Even in times of little actual progress, just keeping in touch is appreciated!

I'm still very much looking forward to this set, as I'm planning to use it on my S7 Elephant. 


That's what's in my mind too to keep updating.
This keyset should be a good match to keyboards that has retro looks, like S7 Elephant. I plan to use it on another retro keyboard kit myself.  ;D

Offline Starius

  • Posts: 478
Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #208 on: Tue, 29 January 2019, 10:39:20 »
I plan to use it on another retro keyboard kit myself.  ;D

Oooooh, which one? Or is it a surprise? :D

😁

Offline hhkbp2

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Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #209 on: Tue, 29 January 2019, 10:45:30 »

Oooooh, which one? Or is it a surprise? :D

😁

It's gonna take a long time to wait before we could get this keyset in our hands. I would rather not to uncover my keyboard for now. I might show it at the end after it's built.  :p


Offline Starius

  • Posts: 478
Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #210 on: Tue, 29 January 2019, 11:19:00 »

Oooooh, which one? Or is it a surprise? :D

😁

It's gonna take a long time to wait before we could get this keyset in our hands. I would rather not to uncover my keyboard for now. I might show it at the end after it's built.  :p

Fair enough!
I do appreciate a grand unveiling!  :D

Offline zepled112

  • Posts: 6
Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #211 on: Wed, 30 January 2019, 22:42:22 »
I really wish I wasn't broke right now, too many good drops going on at once.

Offline hhkbp2

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Re: [GB] SA Symbiosis R2 - GB Closed. Pre-Order available. Production Order to SP
« Reply #212 on: Wed, 30 January 2019, 22:53:21 »
I really wish I wasn't broke right now, too many good drops going on at once.

You could join in later since the pre-order is still available.  :))

Offline hhkbp2

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Update:

I received a picture of color samples from Kono:

Color Samples

The colors look fine.

I noticed that the F1 legend is in small legend, which is wrong. In real production, the F row should have bigger function legends. It's in the specifications that I sent to Kono and SP. Since Kono is talking to SP most of the time after the GB was scheduled, I had told Kono to make sure that SP will read the specifications before production and use bigger function legends for real products.

There is no sample for the cadet legends(alphas, hands & Romans) yet. Kind of surprise to me, because they are the main reason that I called for samples, which was elaborated several times before. Anyway Kono will re-ask SP to make them. I will update if they happen later.
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 March 2019, 04:30:17 by hhkbp2 »

Offline whalematrontron

  • Posts: 67
  • Location: Australia
Definitely interested in it but having to buy through zfrontier is putting me off - heard some pretty negative things about them

Offline hhkbp2

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Definitely interested in it but having to buy through zfrontier is putting me off - heard some pretty negative things about them

Don't want to defend zfrontier, it's just most the negative things happened after the GB closed. I guess you could buy it in Kono, which probably costs you more on shipping. Anyway I could understand because I'm a customer of many vendors myself. Thanks for your support!

Offline cijanzen

  • Posts: 443
Update:

I received a picture of color samples from Kono:

Color Samples

The colors look fine.

I noticed that the F1 legend is in small legend, which is wrong. In real production, the F row should have bigger function legends. It's in the specifications that I sent to Kono and SP. Since Kono is talking to SP most of the time after the GB was scheduled, I had told Kono to make sure that SP will read the specifications before production and use bigger function legends for real products.

There is no sample for the cadet legends(alphas, hands & Romans) yet. Kind of surprise to me, because they are the main reason that I called for samples, which was elaborated several times before. Anyway Kono will re-ask SP to make them. I will update if they happen later.

Colours do indeed look great! Thanks for the updates and thanks for being persistent with both Kono and SP as I think itís important that youíre satisfied with the final results.

Offline Starius

  • Posts: 478
Definitely interested in it but having to buy through zfrontier is putting me off - heard some pretty negative things about them
Just to chime in, I've ordered from ZFrontier only twice, but am happy with both experiences.  One time was just for a keycap set, but the other was the group buy for the Alf X3 Renova.  There was no communication throughout the waiting process of the Renova, however I did get personal communication when it was discovered one of my options on the board was wrong.  (I had chosen 3 Led Lamps on the cover, but they did the Renova logo instead.) They were excellent on their communication of this matter, and offered to urge ALF to correct this if I wasn't happy with it.  However, I opted to accept it as is. 
At that same time, some other people had received their Renovas in somewhat damaged states due to inadequate shipping protection, and I took that time to raise the issue with my Zfrontier contact. He said he wasn't aware of the issue, but seemed concerned and was going to address it with his logistics team. 
I don't know what became of that, but my Renova's box was damaged upon receiving it too - but thankfully no apparent damage to the contents on the inside.  (Other than a slight dent to the metal shroud protecting the bluetooth chip on the pcb)

So my personal opinion is, there is probably little likely to go wrong with getting keycap sets from them.  For bigger stuff like keyboards, you run a greater risk due to the greater distances it must presumably travel to get to you. I'd be perfectly happy dealing with them again, myself, but I've not heard any of these other negative comments you mention.   Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth. 

Offline menuhin

  • Posts: 1085
  • Location: Germany
Update:

I received a picture of color samples from Kono:

Color Samples

The colors look fine.

I noticed that the F1 legend is in small legend, which is wrong. In real production, the F row should have bigger function legends. It's in the specifications that I sent to Kono and SP. Since Kono is talking to SP most of the time after the GB was scheduled, I had told Kono to make sure that SP will read the specifications before production and use bigger function legends for real products.

There is no sample for the cadet legends(alphas, hands & Romans) yet. Kind of surprise to me, because they are the main reason that I called for samples, which was elaborated several times before. Anyway Kono will re-ask SP to make them. I will update if they happen later.

Thanks for the QC work
Please make sure the F1 is F1 but not some sort of F l
Wishlist: 1) hotswap gasket mount; 2) nice Alps blank caps; 3) Hipro Iris with adjustable tenting; 4) CNC POM case
More
Wishful-list: 1) All POM; 2) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 3) Usable Trackpoint MK
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[It's not I don't like ISO, but I need the HHKB backspace... only ~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline bardomudo

  • Posts: 125
Got in from Kono. Colors do look great on the samples but yikes, that F1. Really hope they fix it.

Offline oldcat

  • Posts: 2084
  • Location: Arizona
  • 65% is Life
Thanks for the update!  Even in times of little actual progress, just keeping in touch is appreciated!

I'm still very much looking forward to this set, as I'm planning to use it on my S7 Elephant. 

(Attachment Link)

S7 Elephanr is hell of a keyboard!

Offline RETURNISO

  • Posts: 534
  • Location: [ NOR ] ISO
  • I do get excited about keyboard stuff..
Anyone know how close "GAL" and "WCK" is from each other? @OP, do you have SA oblivion on hand? would love to see how that could match up?  :)
« Last Edit: Sun, 03 March 2019, 17:59:33 by RETURNISO »

Offline hhkbp2

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Anyone know how close "GAL" and "WCK" is from each other? @OP, do you have SA oblivion on hand? would love to see how that could match up?  :)

"WCK" is much whiter. Sorry I don't have SA Oblivion on my hand now. Why did you ask this?


Offline flying1911

  • Posts: 102
Anyone know how close "GAL" and "WCK" is from each other? @OP, do you have SA oblivion on hand? would love to see how that could match up?  :)

"WCK" is much whiter. Sorry I don't have SA Oblivion on my hand now. Why did you ask this?

My guess is he wants to use Symbiosis cadet alphas with Oblivion monochrome mods.

Anyway, jumped in on Kono and having had a look at the samples, September can't come soon enough!
TGR 910CE | TGR Jane CE | TGR Jane V2 CE | Keycult OG No.1 WKL | Cherry G81-3100 SAV | IBM Model M SSK

Offline buzzking00

  • Posts: 81
Any update on this GB? Is there an ETA for when we might receive the keyset?

Offline hhkbp2

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  • Posts: 406
Any update on this GB? Is there an ETA for when we might receive the keyset?

We just had the update for color samples a few days ago in post above. The estimated shipping date is on GB/Pre-order webpage of vendors, which is September. And Kono has weekly update.

Offline whalematrontron

  • Posts: 67
  • Location: Australia
Any update on this GB? Is there an ETA for when we might receive the keyset?

We just had the update for color samples a few days ago in post above. The estimated shipping date is on GB/Pre-order webpage of vendors, which is September. And Kono has weekly update.

Any samples of the alphas with the sublegends?

Offline Hotsauce

  • Posts: 23
Kono weekly update said samples won't be til May.

Offline wdouglass

  • Posts: 1
If i order the ergodox kit, does it come with alphas or just the modifiers (in the picture on KONO.com)?

$120 seems like a lot for just modifiers...

Offline hhkbp2

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If i order the ergodox kit, does it come with alphas or just the modifiers (in the picture on KONO.com)?

$120 seems like a lot for just modifiers...

The Ergodox kit contains only modifiers. You need to order the Alphas kit as well to cover a full Ergodox layout.

Offline AJM

  • Posts: 58
  • Location: Germany
Hi,

I ordered a few sets including the NorDeUK kit and just noticed the following mistake in the NorDeUK kit (as pictured on the Kono website) and wanted to ask, if someone here can tell me if this mistake will be corrected before the production begins:

The NorDeUK kit contains the Y and Z keycap with swapped profile, because on a German keyboard they are the other way round. The problem is that the Y and Z key of the NorDeUK kit keep the same secondary legends, which means they are swapped as well and then they don't correspond with the neighboring keys anymore.
Or to state it differently:
The German Y needs the secondary legend of the standard Z and
the German Z needs the secondary legend of the standard Y.

216843-0

216845-1
« Last Edit: Mon, 08 April 2019, 15:38:14 by AJM »

Offline hhkbp2

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 406
Hi,

I ordered a few sets including the NorDeUK kit and just noticed the following mistake in the NorDeUK kit (as pictured on the Kono website) and wanted to ask, if someone here can tell me if this mistake will be corrected before the production begins:

The NorDeUK kit contains the Y and Z keycap with swapped profile, because on a German keyboard they are the other way round. The problem is that the Y and Z key of the NorDeUK kit keep the same secondary legends, which means they are swapped as well and then they don't correspond with the neighboring keys anymore.
Or to state it differently:
The German Y needs the secondary legend of the standard Z and
the German Z needs the secondary legend of the standard Y.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Hi, It's made in this way so that SP could using the same tooling for standard Y, Z in Alphas kit and German Y, Z in NordeUK kit. If we re-arrange the APL legends along the Alphas legends A-Z, it will cost a lot more on tooling of them and then the NordeUK, Colevrak kit is so expensive so that impossible to be made.

Offline AJM

  • Posts: 58
  • Location: Germany
Thanks for your reply.

I read sometimes, that people argue, that there are no more international kits available, because so few people buy them. Well, that may just be the reason: That they're not designed/made well.
(Another example, I'm a "victim" of, are the messed-up legends of the MT3 /dev/tty international kit.)

I just hope I can cancel the preorder ....

Offline hhkbp2

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 406
Thanks for your reply.

I read sometimes, that people argue, that there are no more international kits available, because so few people buy them. Well, that may just be the reason: That they're not designed/made well.
(Another example, I'm a "victim" of, are the messed-up legends of the MT3 /dev/tty international kit.)

I just hope I can cancel the preorder ....

It's true that only a small portion of keycap GB buyers will buy the Norde/UK kits, sometimes it's hard to be made. In most SA keysets with standard alphas A-Z legends, the NordeUK kits have the same legends. There is no much design work to do for them.

You could cancel your order by contacting the vendor. Thank you for your support anyway.

Offline bardomudo

  • Posts: 125
Problems like these is why even though my country (Brazil) uses a very different keyboard layout (much more similar to ISO than ANSI, but still quite different from both), I decided a decade ago that my life in this hobby would be much easier if I just re-adapted to use ANSI on an ENG-INTL profile instead.

Best decision ever. Rarely have any issues with cap compatibility anymore.

Offline vodan

  • Posts: 18
Thanks for your reply.

...that there are no more international kits available, because so few people buy them. Well, that may just be the reason: That they're not designed/made well.


I think the "not designed/made well" is more of an effect than a cause...

Making Norde/UK kits with the correct legend drives up the price like crazy -> no one buys -> therefore manufacturers will not do it

But then people complain the lack of Norde/UK kits -> manufacturers recycle base legends as compromise -> people complain about incorrect legends / refuse to buy -> low quantity observed in GB -> manufacturers don't want to do them anymore

I feel like no one wins here...


Offline AJM

  • Posts: 58
  • Location: Germany
Well, concerning costs: In case of this NorDeUK kit 2 out of 38 keys would have to be redesigned. I'm not completely convinced that this would have driven the price up that much.
After all, for silly things like "Novelties" there seems to be no limit in that regard.

Offline hhkbp2

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 406

I think the "not designed/made well" is more of an effect than a cause...

Making Norde/UK kits with the correct legend drives up the price like crazy -> no one buys -> therefore manufacturers will not do it

But then people complain the lack of Norde/UK kits -> manufacturers recycle base legends as compromise -> people complain about incorrect legends / refuse to buy -> low quantity observed in GB -> manufacturers don't want to do them anymore

I feel like no one wins here...

I had messaged Kono about this and tried to figure out whether we could change to add these two new legends mentioned above for later production. Since the GB was close with fixed price(and order were taken), I have to pay the tooling cost. It's a niche kit, but I still hope you guys will be happy with it.

Offline AaronR

  • Posts: 98
Is there any estimate on the shipping time?

Offline hhkbp2

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  • Posts: 406
Is there any estimate on the shipping time?

This September(you could see it on the pre-order page). And kono keeps updating on here: weekly update

Offline veleiro

  • Posts: 5
Ahhh I just missed getting the alphas so i could complete my ergodox design with these =( It will probably still work well with the extra 1.5 CADRs hopefully

Offline hhkbp2

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Ahhh I just missed getting the alphas so i could complete my ergodox design with these =( It will probably still work well with the extra 1.5 CADRs hopefully

I don't understand what happened to you but beware of the CADR has uniform R3 profile while the other kits have sculpted profile.

Offline veleiro

  • Posts: 5
Ahhh I just missed getting the alphas so i could complete my ergodox design with these =( It will probably still work well with the extra 1.5 CADRs hopefully

I don't understand what happened to you but beware of the CADR has uniform R3 profile while the other kits have sculpted profile.

It seems they're out of preorders of the alphas?

Yes, I am aware of the CADR's uniform. I will build a uniform with the few ergodox R3 keys and the CARD set, if that would work.

Offline DukeEsquire

  • Posts: 279
Ahhh I just missed getting the alphas so i could complete my ergodox design with these =( It will probably still work well with the extra 1.5 CADRs hopefully

I don't understand what happened to you but beware of the CADR has uniform R3 profile while the other kits have sculpted profile.

It seems they're out of preorders of the alphas?

Yes, I am aware of the CADR's uniform. I will build a uniform with the few ergodox R3 keys and the CARD set, if that would work.

Zfrontier is still selling alphas.

https://en.zfrontier.com/collections/keysets/products/sa-symbiosis-2?variant=12547461382222

Offline veleiro

  • Posts: 5
Ahhh I just missed getting the alphas so i could complete my ergodox design with these =( It will probably still work well with the extra 1.5 CADRs hopefully

I don't understand what happened to you but beware of the CADR has uniform R3 profile while the other kits have sculpted profile.

It seems they're out of preorders of the alphas?

Yes, I am aware of the CADR's uniform. I will build a uniform with the few ergodox R3 keys and the CARD set, if that would work.

Zfrontier is still selling alphas.

https://en.zfrontier.com/collections/keysets/products/sa-symbiosis-2?variant=12547461382222

Thanks! I wasn't aware of any other regions.

Offline veleiro

  • Posts: 5
kono got them back in stock too.  I had to ask support to combine some orders   ;D

As a keycaps noob, can anyone explain to me what following sets are for? 40s (40% keyboards?), Ortho looks like another 40 as well?

I assume Colevrak is for both dvorak and colemak layouts?

As an emacsOS user and a student of hacking history, I'm really excited for this set!
Thanks!

Offline menuhin

  • Posts: 1085
  • Location: Germany
kono got them back in stock too.  I had to ask support to combine some orders   ;D

As a keycaps noob, can anyone explain to me what following sets are for? 40s (40% keyboards?), Ortho looks like another 40 as well?

I assume Colevrak is for both dvorak and colemak layouts?

As an emacsOS user and a student of hacking history, I'm really excited for this set!
Thanks!

40% kit fulfills the need of boards like MiniVan, JD40, Daisy, and many other that requires > 1u key caps at multiple rows. Ortho kit is mostly for Planck but that can fit also Atreus, Preonic, and other Orthos which are mostly 1u keys based.

What is EmacsOS? Or do you mean Emacs? Or indeed some sort of OS booting up a computer that runs on Lisp and then Emacs?? If that is the later case, then it is some super exciting news for me. I have seen someone who built a kernel and a super simple barebone OS based on Lisp a year or two ago - not sure if it has become usable.
Wishlist: 1) hotswap gasket mount; 2) nice Alps blank caps; 3) Hipro Iris with adjustable tenting; 4) CNC POM case
More
Wishful-list: 1) All POM; 2) We order from keyboard-layout-editor.com; 3) Usable Trackpoint MK
IBM M13 black
IBM SpaceSaver II
IBM KPD8923 Trackpoint
Choc mini Gateron black
PLUM 84 'Topre-clone' 55g Korean dome
HHKB Pro 2 HasuBT
[It's not I don't like ISO, but I need the HHKB backspace... only ~90WPM, in love with Emacs, and Lisp]

Offline hhkbp2

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 406
kono got them back in stock too.  I had to ask support to combine some orders   ;D

As a keycaps noob, can anyone explain to me what following sets are for? 40s (40% keyboards?), Ortho looks like another 40 as well?

I assume Colevrak is for both dvorak and colemak layouts?

As an emacsOS user and a student of hacking history, I'm really excited for this set!
Thanks!

40s is for many 40 layouts like JD40, JD45, MiniVan, Golbat, Pearl, Vortex, Sebright, Minorca etc. While Ortho is for layouts with (mostly) 1u keys like Planck, Preonic, etc.

Colevrak is for both dvorak and colemak.

Offline veleiro

  • Posts: 5
What is EmacsOS? Or do you mean Emacs? Or indeed some sort of OS booting up a computer that runs on Lisp and then Emacs?? If that is the later case, then it is some super exciting news for me. I have seen someone who built a kernel and a super simple barebone OS based on Lisp a year or two ago - not sure if it has become usable.
I mean emacs. I always call it emacsOS publicly because of the joke "the only thing emacs lacks is a good editor"  :))


Offline Hotsauce

  • Posts: 23
Kono store updated with this yesterday. Not sure if this was previously posted.

Quote
For information about a new keyboard design to pair this keycap set - join the waitlist here - https://kono.store/products/input-club-symbolic-keyboard