Author Topic: Buying new hardware, upgrades, Black Friday, Back to school... Aug/Sept 2020  (Read 1806 times)

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Offline Leslieann

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If you plan on buying new parts or upgrading, DO IT NOW.
Yes, I know prices are horrible and inventory is low and you're waiting for a sale. It's not coming. Black Friday is going to be worse than last year.


Hardest hit right now (buy asap)
GPUs and PSUs but other parts are in trouble as well



GPUS
There has been a shortage of GPUS since before last Black Firday, and while it did bring down used prices, used GPUS are actually back at or even higher than they were this time last year. Don't expect the Nvidia 3000 series to cause a decrease, Nvidia is working on a plan to buy the ARM or VIA foundry and someone has to pay for it, there's a shortage of GPUS, there's Covid disrupting supply, consoles are raiding graphics ram supplies and taking up foundry time, people are staying home and need computers and AMD is not a contender at the high end. As a result a basic 3060 is going to MSRP at $500 (WTF) and only go up from there so even if someone upgrades these are so much more expensive that it won't help the used market much if any.

Power supplies...

Same issue as above, Covid disrupting supply, people are staying home and need computers more people staying home needing upgrades. Power supplies take it a step further though as the factories cycle between brands and models, so if you need an SFF by Corsair you have to wait not only for Wall to cycle around to Corsairs line but that specific model. If they've made all they plan for the year, you're sunk. SFF PSUs by the way are one of the hardest hit and my understanding is it;s about to get a LOT worse.


SSDs    (there is questions about prices on this, some say down, some say up)
Same issue as above, Covid disrupting supply, consoles are raiding supplies, people are staying home and need computers more people staying home needing upgrades. Thsi happens with any major cell phone or console release.

CPUS
Intel is of course still having fab issues, they were going to have the ARM or VIA foundry work on them but that's probably up in the air if Nvidia manages to buy the foundry. ARM China has been hijacked by the person in charge there so that's out. AMD is also done this way, and while Intel's problems are supply side and self inflicted AMD just simply can't keep up with demand.

Ram  (there is questions about prices on this, some say down, some say up)
Exact same as SSDs.



About the only thing you can or will be able to get cheap will be spinners (hard disks) and I'm sure they will come up with some way to jack up those prices as well. It's a dying industry and they want all they can get. Don't expect Black Friday to be good. I told you guys in January it would be new years before things returned to normal, but I'm starting to think it may be middle of next year before everything is back in stock.


Part recommendations for those on a budget:
GPU - go used. A well branded quality 1070 never mined on is a little over $200 and can play almost anything on ultra @ 1080p. GPUS are easy to upgrade later.
CPU - New or used, Intel 7th or 8th gen I5 or better for Intel. Anything Ryzen 2000 (excluding APUS), even 1st gen isn't bad.
Ram - you still only need 16Gb, if possible leave room for more.
PSU and drives - NEVER BUY USED. For ssd, buy at 256Gb for OS or larger, then a spinner if need be but don't go below 250Gb for Windows.

Always verify it works when buying used, and make sure it's brand name, those cheap no name Chinese 1060's and such on Ebay are fakes. If a small volume seller has 50 of a GPU, they mined on it, I don't care what they claim. While some sellers do trade in bulk, these are usually corporate stuff and most offices don't have have hundreds of 1080's. You want the person selling off their gaming rig. BTW, you can get replacement fans off Amazon and Ebay, so even if you get a mining card it's repairable for about $20 a fan.
« Last Edit: Thu, 27 August 2020, 05:55:15 by Leslieann »
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Offline pewpewnii

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Yeah , I'm planning for a better PSU and M2.SSD. Currently my PC build is i5-8600k and rtx 2060 with 450w bronze psu LOL and a sata SSD. Its not enough for me, I try to get it asap but today i just bought a keyboard fk

Offline Leslieann

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Good keyboards are also in short supply.
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Offline pewpewnii

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Good keyboards are also in short supply.

IKR I got my iqunix f60 on deals with only 70dollar

Offline tp4tissue

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They're all sold out of digital pianos..

Tp4 may have to buy the more expensive models, because all the entry lvl ones have been sold out for months.

Also wouldn't recommend anything less than gtx 1080, at this point

Offline Sintpinty

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Good keyboards are also in short supply.

Sadly yes.

Offline Leslieann

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Also wouldn't recommend anything less than gtx 1080, at this point

I would almost agree with you, however two problems..
1080 prices are way up again to the point you could buy a 2060. Why buy a used 1080 that was used for mining when you can buy a 2060 Super with warranty?

If you're on a budget, a 1080 isn't going to matter much.
You aren't likely using high refresh or 4k or expecting to game on ultra at those setting anyhow. Skimp a bit now and wait for prices to come back down then go for a nicer card. Cards are easy to upgrade, CPUs and drives are not. You can get a 1070 for less than 2/3rds the price of a 1080 or 2060, it's less likely to have been mined on and will do just fine for most mere mortals, especially those on a budget.
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Offline pewpewnii

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If you're on a budget, a 1080 isn't going to matter much.
You aren't likely using high refresh or 4k or expecting to game on ultra at those setting anyhow. Skimp a bit now and wait for prices to come back down then go for a nicer card. Cards are easy to upgrade, CPUs and drives are not. You can get a 1070 for less than 2/3rds the price of a 1080 or 2060, it's less likely to have been mined on and will do just fine for most mere mortals, especially those on a budget.

Yup, that's why I go for 2060 since my monitor can't support 4k also it is a VA panel monitor oof

Offline tp4tissue

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Also wouldn't recommend anything less than gtx 1080, at this point

I would almost agree with you, however two problems..
1080 prices are way up again to the point you could buy a 2060. Why buy a used 1080 that was used for mining when you can buy a 2060 Super with warranty?

If you're on a budget, a 1080 isn't going to matter much.
You aren't likely using high refresh or 4k or expecting to game on ultra at those setting anyhow. Skimp a bit now and wait for prices to come back down then go for a nicer card. Cards are easy to upgrade, CPUs and drives are not. You can get a 1070 for less than 2/3rds the price of a 1080 or 2060, it's less likely to have been mined on and will do just fine for most mere mortals, especially those on a budget.

Then wouldn't the recommendation move UP to 2060 or 1660ti  instead of 1070,  I really don't think 1070 is a good place to be at ANY price.

That said, Tp4 would personally still rather get 1080, because it has better Madvr Movie playback support.

Offline jamster

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Am I the only one here happy with a 1050?

Offline tp4tissue

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Am I the only one here happy with a 1050?

kekekeke,  peasants..  hahaha jk jamster,  Tp4 also using peasant class 1660ti




Online suicidal_orange

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Am I the only one here happy with a 1050?

I have the Palit 1050ti with the huge heatsink if that counts?
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Offline Leslieann

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I think they make a 1650 passive now.  UPgradd...
Says the guy who just said not to buy less than 1080. LOL
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Offline tp4tissue

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I think they make a 1650 passive now.  UPgradd...
Says the guy who just said not to buy less than 1080. LOL

Well that's the fastest one that's passive,   Tp4 still recommends 1080 in all other cases. !!

Online suicidal_orange

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I have the Palit 1050ti with the huge heatsink if that counts?

I think they make a 1650 passive now.  UPgradd...


I play one game and can't even crank the details due to running it in wine under Linux (it crashes past medium, confirmed using integrated gpu) and at 1600x1200 browsing is not exactly taxing a 1050.  My next 'upgrade' (if my current stuff last long enough) will be a Ryzen APU.
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Offline Leslieann

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If you guys are happy, great, but if you want a real cheap upgrade you guys with the 1050s might want to look at what RX 580 prices are like around you (4Gb models can be had for under $100 after some bargaining, they were under $80), it would be a massive upgrade. Especially for you S.O. since you use Linux, Nvidia drivers are horrible in Linux.

TP can say what he wants and how everyone needs a 1080 and 3 monster 4k screens, but that card (4Gb version) ran great and for the most part played anything I wanted at 1080, a bit less at 1440p. I'm not sure how well it would handle Flight Sim 2020, but that's the new Crisys, everything struggles.

As for noise, it wasn't terrible, it wasn't great, mine had wonky fans and so long as they weren't rattling it wasn't bad.
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Offline tp4tissue

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4GB is enough for most games,  issue comes down to maybe having to upgradn' twice, if something comes along.

Offline jamster

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Oddly enough, the one game that I play seems to work fine with my 1050 at 3440x1200. I'm running at generally medium graphics settings, though I've deliberately tuned down some things for performance. It's an old massively multiplayer FPS style game (Planetside 2) so pretty graphics are not a drawcard for playing in the first place, it's all about player interaction.

Offline tp4tissue

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Tp4 mostly just watches movies, on video playback, the Color correction and HDR Tonemapping function uses up 90%-100% of a 1060gtx 6gb , and if AI chroma upscaling is used it will happily use up all of a 1660ti and more, if You let it.

Gaming side, Doom 2016 runs pretty well on a 1660ti, buhhh not great. Then there's hype on that new Wukong BlackMyth which is unreal engine, it'll prolly need 1080ti or a 2080ti. But 3090 is coming, soooo.. hrrrrmm.. maybe people will let go of their 1080ti's for a discount.

Rumored Halo card AMD, 2x 5700xt in performance, that's gon'b pretty darn fast, comes down to price.   5700xt is still king of value IMHO, it had driver issues at the start, but all these things do.

Offline Coreda

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Gaming side, Doom 2016 runs pretty well on a 1660ti, buhhh not great. Then there's hype on that new Wukong BlackMyth which is unreal engine, it'll prolly need 1080ti or a 2080ti.

For something that looks as slick as Black Myth I have doubts on how well it'd perform on Pascal unless tuned down (hair effects, shadows, etc) but then then even Turing cards have struggled with various demanding games to hold 60fps @ 1440p without even RTX enabled so hoping the Ampere line will improve things for newer games.
« Last Edit: Thu, 27 August 2020, 04:51:58 by Coreda »

Offline Leslieann

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Quick update...

According to Gamers Nexus,
Ram and flash memory may actually go down as much as 15%, word is places had been stocking up in preparation for consoles and then everyone stayed home so enterprise didn't do all the upgrades they expected.  I don't buy this. Enterprise may not have done the upgrades they were expecting to, however home sales have skyrocketed. ECC (server) ram prices have little to do with non-ECC (desktop) memory like we use, same with enterprise grade SSDs and flash memory. The ram chips may be similar but often higher binning and may already be assembled into drives.  Then you still have the console problem.


The rest still applies, especially PSUs, if you are in the market, buy when available or plan on waiting a LONG time.
High watt SFF/SFX PSU buyers, if you're waiting you probably waited too long, they've been almost impossible to get since Black Friday and probably will be until well after New Years. Corsair in particular has been difficult to get and it's even worse in Canada (Memory Express has some at the moment). Beware Amazon for this if it's shipped by Amazon, never know what you may get, same for SSDs.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Gaming side, Doom 2016 runs pretty well on a 1660ti, buhhh not great. Then there's hype on that new Wukong BlackMyth which is unreal engine, it'll prolly need 1080ti or a 2080ti.

For something that looks as slick as Black Myth I have doubts on how well it'd perform on Pascal unless tuned down (hair effects, shadows, etc) but then then even Turing cards have struggled with various demanding games to hold 60fps @ 1440p without even RTX enabled so hoping the Ampere line will improve things for newer games.

I don't think unreal engine 4 supports rtx


Offline tp4tissue

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Quick update...

According to Gamers Nexus,
Ram and flash memory may actually go down as much as 15%, word is places had been stocking up in preparation for consoles and then everyone stayed home so enterprise didn't do all the upgrades they expected.  I don't buy this. Enterprise may not have done the upgrades they were expecting to, however home sales have skyrocketed. ECC (server) ram prices have little to do with non-ECC (desktop) memory like we use, same with enterprise grade SSDs and flash memory. The ram chips may be similar but often higher binning and may already be assembled into drives.  Then you still have the console problem.


The rest still applies, especially PSUs, if you are in the market, buy when available or plan on waiting a LONG time.
High watt SFF/SFX PSU buyers, if you're waiting you probably waited too long, they've been almost impossible to get since Black Friday and probably will be until well after New Years. Corsair in particular has been difficult to get and it's even worse in Canada (Memory Express has some at the moment). Beware Amazon for this if it's shipped by Amazon, never know what you may get, same for SSDs.

There won't be a shortage ,  but they'll jack up the prices anyway, because you know thailand flooded and of course we're low on harddrives, NOT....


Offline Leslieann

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Ummm...
The PSU shortage started months ago, it's just going to get a lot worse.

It could also be further delayed by the new standard, but that depends on MOBO makers switching as well. I half expect much of the industry to move to SFX and the new connectors at the same time. Not much need for full size ATX at this point and with the new 12v system it's needed even less.
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Offline Coreda

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I don't think unreal engine 4 supports rtx

It does (eg: Atomic Heart was one of the early UE4 showcases of GPU-accelerated raytracing) but the comment about RTX wasn't referring to Black Myth just generally about how demanding certain newer games running on Turing are even without RTX enabled.

Of course that's usually only when tested at the highest qualities (typical for benchmarks) but Black Myth's gameplay trailer does look like they cranked the settings and knowing how much of a perf hit Nvidia's Hairworks are for example it made me wonder what they're using for that furry boss and how it'd look at reduced settings.
« Last Edit: Thu, 27 August 2020, 08:29:39 by Coreda »

Offline Kavik

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I guess this explains why PSUs were both out of stock and expensive even for my mom's dinky computer. I originally put a 430W Corsair in it years ago, which started failing recently. As a replacement, I ended up getting her a 550W ThermalTake since it was available and still a reasonable price (<$70). The Corsairs were out of stock or ridiculously expensive (>$100) for the wattage.
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline Sintpinty

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Am I the only one here happy with a 1050?

You're the only one in the universe happy with a 1050. It's upgrade time

Offline phinix

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Re: Buying new hardware, upgrades, Black Friday, Back to school... Aug/Sept 2020
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 02:23:18 »
Now when RTX3000 were announced, looks like it is good time to buy a lot better cards:)
For me I think 3070 is best solution, so time to sell my almost new 2070s.
UK is in pretty weird situation now - if brexit comes to "no deal", from January next year we will have to pay extra VAT and custom fees.
So yes, time in now :)
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Offline jamster

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Re: Buying new hardware, upgrades, Black Friday, Back to school... Aug/Sept 2020
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 02:48:55 »
Am I the only one here happy with a 1050?

You're the only one in the universe happy with a 1050. It's upgrade time

I'm watching my friends in a Telegram group talk about which new 30x0 card to get... I'm sitting here thinking that I don't really care about playing ray-traced Minecraft :)

Instead, I'm trying to fight off the temptation of spending my tech toy money on Ruckus wifi gear...

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Buying new hardware, upgrades, Black Friday, Back to school... Aug/Sept 2020
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 07:28:38 »
As always... WAIT FOR BENCHMARKS.

I wouldn't want to be a 2080 TI owner right now, I'd be half tempted to sell it RIGHT now because if the number Nvidia claims are real the used market is going to be hit hard. Granted, that is IF they hit the numbers claimed and if they can actually get them to market in reasonable numbers. With how things have been going this could very well be a paper launch and not see more than handful for months after launch.
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