Author Topic: Music on Vinyl  (Read 2989 times)

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Offline Kavik

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Music on Vinyl
« on: Mon, 10 August 2020, 18:47:27 »
1. Is there an appreciable difference to vinyl in and of itself, all other things being equal? A couple years ago, my brother threw a record on my grandparents' old record player, the kind that is literally a piece of furniture - encased in wood with straw mesh over the speakers. It sounded absolutely amazing - I don't know audiophile terms, but I'd say it was airy and filled the room and had more of a physical presence if that makes any sense. But I don't know how much of that was the fact that it was on vinyl and how much was that it was a big, old speaker.

2. What kinds of players do people typically use these days? I've seen some newly manufactured stuff, but is something old from a thrift shop better? I have absolutely no idea what I'm looking at in this regard.
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

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Offline ddrfraser1

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Re: Music on Vinyl
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 10 August 2020, 19:18:38 »
1. Is there an appreciable difference to vinyl in and of itself, all other things being equal? A couple years ago, my brother threw a record on my grandparents' old record player, the kind that is literally a piece of furniture - encased in wood with straw mesh over the speakers. It sounded absolutely amazing - I don't know audiophile terms, but I'd say it was airy and filled the room and had more of a physical presence if that makes any sense. But I don't know how much of that was the fact that it was on vinyl and how much was that it was a big, old speaker.

2. What kinds of players do people typically use these days? I've seen some newly manufactured stuff, but is something old from a thrift shop better? I have absolutely no idea what I'm looking at in this regard.

Yep, you miss a lot in digital. Vinyl is way way better.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Music on Vinyl
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 10 August 2020, 20:50:11 »
This is a complex ecosystem. Personally, I grew up on vinyl and I see it as the only "proper" medium for music reproduction.

My opinion is that all musical instruments (except modern (ie post-1970s) digital synthesizers) including the human voice are analog, compression waves in the are are an analog phenomenon, speaker cones or surfaces moving to create more compressions and rarefications in the air are analog, and the human eardrum and inner ear are all analog devices.

Converting any or all of these processes to "digital" only makes various electrical processes easier and more efficient.

That said, early (pre-mid-1960s) LPs were manufactured from thick sturdy heavy plastic intended to stand up to years of hard use and abuse. By the late-1960s, stereo gear had become much more sophisticated and LP manufacturing responded by making more refined but less durable LPs.

One aspect of playback sound that was less objectionable or ignored altogether in the old days was surface noise or "hiss" which is effectively nonexistent in in modern digital playback. Analog playback, even with surface noise, is so much warmer and richer than modern digital playback that it sounds far better. I suspect that our ears simply tune out surface noise and concentrate on the music itself.

But what do I know? I started buying records in the mid-1960s and CDs in the mid-1980s and still have most of them. (cassette tapes (and their sires, 8-tracks), meh, an ephemeral medium to use in the car)



 
And here is a whole new pinnacle of dumb:
"DO NOT VOTE IN THE GEORGIA RUNOFFS, THE DEEP STATE WILL BE COLLECTING EVERYONE'S INFO. THIS IS A CHARADE, MEANT TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT. STAY HOME. OSSOFF AND WARNOCK ARE A SMALL PRICE TO PAY."
"THE ONLY WAY OUR VOICES GET HEARD IS by #boycott the vote"
"#WALKAWAY FROM RINOS BRAIN KEMP AND BRAD RAFFENSBERGER. BRAIN AND BRAD THINK THEY CAN USE DOMINION VOTE MACHINES TO ELECT CRAZY WARNOCK AND LIDDLE JON OSSOFF. IF ALL PATRIOTS BOYCOTT RIGGED #GASEN ELECTION, THE SUPREME COURT WILL ORDER A REVOTE! - #ElectionFraud #KAG #HoldTheLine

Online Leslieann

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Re: Music on Vinyl
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 10 August 2020, 22:27:05 »
A lot to unpack here and some builds on what Fohat said.

Those old cabinets were EXPENSIVE, they didn't throw the cheapest speakers in them that they could. Do they compare to newer high end, no, but they are a lot better than people give them credit for. Another reason they sound better is at least partially due to most of them using tube amps which sound amazing... Guitarists almost single handedly kept that industry afloat for decades due to using them in their amplifiers.

As for records being better, that depends.
First off, all things equal, digital wins, sorry record guys, it's true. Sounding better is subjective (hence tube amps), but strictly from a how it's supposed to sound, digital wins every time because they tuned it to sound like it does. What's there is supposed to be and what isn't, isn't. The idea that the dynamic range is better, blah blah blah... One of the biggest reason CD's sound less good is not because the format but because they are squash the sound for better radio play (look up loudness war). They purposely ruined it, but again, that was their choice. Imagine going up to Mozart and telling him how his music should be played "you should add random pops and hiss so it sounds more natural".


What sounds good to you doesn't mean that is how it was supposed to sound. A digital recording allows them to tune it to sound EXACTLY how they want but that isn't always a good thing (again, loudness wars). Some newer records are remastered from analog to digital then back to analog record, and in the process pull the same tweaking garbage they do to digital recordings. So who's right? Well you aren't the artist, but at the same time listen to it how you like. More importantly, there is also a LOT of electronics noise, if you have ever met a radio DJ in person they sound nothing like they do on air. Everything goes through a lot of electronics and wiring before ever getting to your ears. You aren't hearing what was heard in the studio no matter how much you think you are. All this to say nothing about how we interpret sound which also varies.

Bottom line (this applies to #2)
If you like records, cool, if not, that's also cool.  Personally, I prefer carrying my entire library in my pocket, even if it only sounds 95% as good simply for convenience. Which is precisely why records, 8 track, cassettes and cd's fell by the wayside. Like most things, if it's good enough, convenience usually wins.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Music on Vinyl
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 11 August 2020, 08:01:52 »
Imagine going up to Mozart and telling him how his music should be played "you should add random pops and hiss so it sounds more natural".

Huh? What does that mean? Pops and hiss are not good, but they can be ignored if need be. (pops being the much more serious annoyance)


What sounds good to you doesn't mean that is how it was supposed to sound.

My peak formative music experiences were in the 1970s-1980s, and so I prefer the gear from that era. Today I have about 3 complete stereo sets, all mid-high-end consumer components manufactured between the mid-1970s and the mid-1980s. That is what sounds best to my ears, and certainly it was because my ears were conditioned to it decades ago.


Personally, I prefer carrying my entire library in my pocket

This is a powerful incentive. I spent years digitizing nearly all of my very large collection of LPs and CDs, so I can listen to anything I want right now without getting up out of my seat.

So I have the best of both worlds, when I want the serious listening experience I simply fire up my 4-decade-old stereo and get out some records ....
And here is a whole new pinnacle of dumb:
"DO NOT VOTE IN THE GEORGIA RUNOFFS, THE DEEP STATE WILL BE COLLECTING EVERYONE'S INFO. THIS IS A CHARADE, MEANT TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT. STAY HOME. OSSOFF AND WARNOCK ARE A SMALL PRICE TO PAY."
"THE ONLY WAY OUR VOICES GET HEARD IS by #boycott the vote"
"#WALKAWAY FROM RINOS BRAIN KEMP AND BRAD RAFFENSBERGER. BRAIN AND BRAD THINK THEY CAN USE DOMINION VOTE MACHINES TO ELECT CRAZY WARNOCK AND LIDDLE JON OSSOFF. IF ALL PATRIOTS BOYCOTT RIGGED #GASEN ELECTION, THE SUPREME COURT WILL ORDER A REVOTE! - #ElectionFraud #KAG #HoldTheLine

Offline dddeeaatthhh

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Re: Music on Vinyl
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 07:14:39 »
one of the things i like about vinyl is that it kinda forces you to listen to the band, rather than the song, if that makes sense. like, a few months after my girlfriend and i moved in together and had been listening to records as our main source of music she said something like "you know, i can't really remember the last time i just listened to a band's whole album all the way through". because she was so used to things like spotify where you just make a playlist and hit shuffle.

one of the other things i enjoy about it is collecting first/early pressings of albums by bands i love. i like to put on a first press of something like The Clash's London Calling and imagine what it would be like being a kid in 1979 coming home from the record shop and hearing that for the first time. might sound a bit tacky, but i kind of look at things like that as a part of history.

Online yui

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Re: Music on Vinyl
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 07:34:21 »
vinyl will sound better than low quality mp3 for sure, but worse that loseless especially when you get to the center of the record, as the further you are from the edge the less dynamic range you get. for me the thing with records is the larger covers and picture disc and the whole process of playing a record is a bit nicer than playing a digital file or a cd. as for the player i use an old sony turntable from the 80's with an audio technica magnetic cell and an old sony amp from the same era. same for the cd player and yes the same album will sound better on the outer edge of the vinyl and worse on the inner tracks, so to me CD have the advantage of being consistent and easier to store, the vinyl is its own mythos and rites and the digital is very dependent on files and player/dac
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Online Leslieann

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Re: Music on Vinyl
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 07:39:03 »
MP3's signaled the end of the album it just took Spotify for record companies to get it through their thick skulls.

Instead of albums I've gotten more into watching concert footage on youtube, certain bands really need to be live to be truly appreciated. I never understood The Greatful Dead until I heard some live stuff.
Filco MJ2 L.E. w/hand milled Vortex case, custom feet/paint/winkey blockoff plate, HID Liberator, stainless steel universal plate, 3d printed adapters, Type C, sound dampened,  Thick PBT caps (o-ringed), Cherry Jailhouse Blues w/lubed/clipped Cherry light springs | GMMK TKL | Magicforce 68 | YMDK75 | KBT Race S L.E. | Das Pro (Costar model) | GH60 | IBM Model M (x2)

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Music on Vinyl
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 07:47:21 »

coming home from the record shop and hearing that for the first time.


That's just the way it was for me starting in the mid-1960s. You learned what days shipments came in and went on those days.

One of the biggest thrills came when you walked in and saw a new release by a favorite artist that you had not known had been released yet.
And here is a whole new pinnacle of dumb:
"DO NOT VOTE IN THE GEORGIA RUNOFFS, THE DEEP STATE WILL BE COLLECTING EVERYONE'S INFO. THIS IS A CHARADE, MEANT TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT. STAY HOME. OSSOFF AND WARNOCK ARE A SMALL PRICE TO PAY."
"THE ONLY WAY OUR VOICES GET HEARD IS by #boycott the vote"
"#WALKAWAY FROM RINOS BRAIN KEMP AND BRAD RAFFENSBERGER. BRAIN AND BRAD THINK THEY CAN USE DOMINION VOTE MACHINES TO ELECT CRAZY WARNOCK AND LIDDLE JON OSSOFF. IF ALL PATRIOTS BOYCOTT RIGGED #GASEN ELECTION, THE SUPREME COURT WILL ORDER A REVOTE! - #ElectionFraud #KAG #HoldTheLine

Offline Kavik

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Re: Music on Vinyl
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 14:07:14 »
one of the things i like about vinyl is that it kinda forces you to listen to the band, rather than the song, if that makes sense. like, a few months after my girlfriend and i moved in together and had been listening to records as our main source of music she said something like "you know, i can't really remember the last time i just listened to a band's whole album all the way through". because she was so used to things like spotify where you just make a playlist and hit shuffle.

one of the other things i enjoy about it is collecting first/early pressings of albums by bands i love. i like to put on a first press of something like The Clash's London Calling and imagine what it would be like being a kid in 1979 coming home from the record shop and hearing that for the first time. might sound a bit tacky, but i kind of look at things like that as a part of history.

If I actually like a band, I usually do listen to the entire album at once because I either listen to it on CD in the car or I pick the album folder on MP3 and let it play through. When I was younger, my music was more of a hodgepodge, mainly because it was pirated. Listening to the entire album is especially important for some bands because each song leads into the next either musically or lyrically. It's fun to anticipate the first few notes of the next song after listening to the album a few times.

That said, I rarely listen to music just for the joy of listening at home. I am usually running or driving when I listen which does take away some of the experience.
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Music on Vinyl
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 02 September 2020, 14:25:09 »

each song leads into the next


The composition and arrangement of "Side A" vs "Side B" was supremely important. There were plenty of albums where one side was great and the other was lame.
And here is a whole new pinnacle of dumb:
"DO NOT VOTE IN THE GEORGIA RUNOFFS, THE DEEP STATE WILL BE COLLECTING EVERYONE'S INFO. THIS IS A CHARADE, MEANT TO IDENTIFY PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE DEMOCRAT. STAY HOME. OSSOFF AND WARNOCK ARE A SMALL PRICE TO PAY."
"THE ONLY WAY OUR VOICES GET HEARD IS by #boycott the vote"
"#WALKAWAY FROM RINOS BRAIN KEMP AND BRAD RAFFENSBERGER. BRAIN AND BRAD THINK THEY CAN USE DOMINION VOTE MACHINES TO ELECT CRAZY WARNOCK AND LIDDLE JON OSSOFF. IF ALL PATRIOTS BOYCOTT RIGGED #GASEN ELECTION, THE SUPREME COURT WILL ORDER A REVOTE! - #ElectionFraud #KAG #HoldTheLine