Author Topic: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)  (Read 9150 times)

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Offline pr0ximity

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Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« on: Sun, 30 December 2018, 22:32:31 »
Topic.

Just finished building my second MX Brown board, a work board for my significant other. Aside from Topre, MX Brown on a PCB with no plate is perhaps the most comfortable switch out there in my opinion -- all of the light feeling of an MX Red (or rather, an ergo 62g~ish MX Black) with very light tactility to give your fingers the ability to subconsciously slow down a bit before bottoming out, without the burden of getting over a large tactile bump like Clears to actually actuate. I find Browns far easier to type without bottoming-out on than any other switch because of the near-linear force curve while still physically registering actuation.

Alps SKCL are very close, oddly enough. The way the leaf is structured on Alps linears gives an even less-perceptible amount of tactility, just a slight increase in friction for only the most discerning of fingers.

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Offline hineybush

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 30 December 2018, 22:37:36 »
I have a bunch of PCB mount ones from a G80-8200. I'm gonna build my Jane v2 half plate with them I think.

Offline oneproduct

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 30 December 2018, 22:54:46 »
It seems most people like heavier switches, but I like very light switches. Reds and browns are my favorites for that reason. I also have the very light Hall effect switches from the XMIT massdrop which most people disliked. I type in the 100-125 WPM range depending on the complexity of the text and definitely find it easier with light switches.
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Offline pixelpusher

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 30 December 2018, 22:55:46 »
Have you guys tried Hako Violets?  I like browns a lot and I feel like they are very nice.

Offline appaboy

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 30 December 2018, 22:57:33 »
I don't like how many people think a bigger bump means the switch is automatically better designed. sometimes its nice to have a small bump like in the browns
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Offline Halverson

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 30 December 2018, 23:11:45 »
Oh you!

Offline Hayte

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 31 December 2018, 07:42:18 »
I went through the Kailh box phase, switched to clicky MX clones, made a full board of Cherrystotles and Zealiostotles and then ran the MX halo gauntlet (pandas, skies and chickies) and in the end I came full circle back to lubed, re-tooled MX Browns.

I hated the hysteresis of MX Blues and Stotles. Stotle stems are so inconsistent you need to buy well over a 120 overpriced switches just to fully populate a TKL because the tolerances are garbage. I hated how ill fitting and misaligned Kailh box switches were. I dislike how halo stems are too tall for MX style housings. They are too tall for their own stock (Kailh) housings. All halo hybrids feel like slamming the blunt end of a pencil onto a desk. Feels ok if you just press a key every now and then so you can post "wow much tactile, many feels" on Reddit. Bone rattling trash when you have to do a full data entry day on them.

I still type faster and longer on MX Browns than any other switch, which I did not expect at the outset. After 10+ years at a law firm trying to go paperless, I bought a hotswap board in 2018 and moved my plateless mx brown board into work and I dunno. It was just meant to be I guess.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 31 December 2018, 09:56:08 »
Have you guys tried Hako Violets?  I like browns a lot and I feel like they are very nice.

I like Hako Violets.  At some point I will do a full board with them.  They are not like MX Brown, other than being light and tactile, but they could be a great recommendation for someone who wants a lightweight switch with a well defined bump. 
. . .
MX Browns were what first led me to appreciate the precision and nuance of mechanical switches.  They encouraged me to learn to type quickly while trying to avoid bottoming out.  I went through a few love-hate phases with them as I discovered other switches and got bored with one or another variety, but I think MX Browns can be excellent with the right case/plate/keycap combination.  Like a relaxing massage for fingers.  I've got a set of smooth vintage Browns to put on something still.

The Biggest Possible Bump is the current fad fo sho, which is anti-MX Brown and Hako True.  That's not what MX Browns are about.  They are a no frills lightweight switch that's not fatiguing to type on quickly for a long time.
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 31 December 2018, 11:17:24 »
I thought I hated mx browns until I got a leopold 980m PD with them, been using them everyday since.

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Offline rkarp

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 31 December 2018, 14:59:45 »
Long time lurker - first time poster.  Officially, this be my first post, matey.

When getting into this hobby, and having demo'd a few boards, I ended up with a HHKB pro2, white w/ blanks ((still running stock, btw, though about to do a dental ring mod I think)).  Significant other put the kaibosh down on 1 keyboard, 1 keyboard only please.  That said, you could consider my mistress board anything with MX Browns.  If I ever go back to Cherry, browns they shall be.  Posting in this thread because of mad respect and love for the browns.

Offline Riverman

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 31 December 2018, 18:50:59 »
Browns are just such a nice middle ground.  They're not mushy like reds, or overly loud like blues, and I do appreciate their lightness.  Even a 45g Topre board can cause a little pain in my fingertips if I type on one for too long.  I think the most pleasant keyboard to type on that I've ever had was a cheap and flimsy G80-3000 that I swapped out the silent reds for browns, plus a tactile grey for the space bar.

Offline ullr

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 31 December 2018, 18:52:50 »
I feel like maybe they're not underrated but they're definitely over-hated. I momentarily had a Majestouch with them and while I did swap them out (that's what I bought it for after all) I felt that they were very serviceable switches and a far cry from whatever people are talking about when they allude to "dirty linears" or "scratchy ****". People talk a lot about which switch is the *most tactile* or *the sharpest* but that doesn't necessarily make those the best or anything else terrible per se

Offline Photekq

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 31 December 2018, 19:08:52 »
The oldest MX browns from Cherry MX5000/1838 are the best Cherry switch ever made imo. I'm not a fan of browns found in boards more recent than those though.

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 02 January 2019, 13:50:33 »
The oldest MX browns from Cherry MX5000/1838 are the best Cherry switch ever made imo. I'm not a fan of browns found in boards more recent than those though.

And so the legend is perpetuated.

I've never seen a side-by-side comparison of 5000/1838 Browns and say, 11800 Browns, but would love to if anyone has the time/camera.
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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 02 January 2019, 22:42:46 »
The oldest MX browns from Cherry MX5000/1838 are the best Cherry switch ever made imo. I'm not a fan of browns found in boards more recent than those though.

And so the legend is perpetuated.

I've never seen a side-by-side comparison of 5000/1838 Browns and say, 11800 Browns, but would love to if anyone has the time/camera.

It’s still going to be batch-dependent.  I’ve used excellent smooth MX Browns on a Filco that were as good as vintage MX Browns.  I have two separate scratchy batches of Nixdorf MX Blacks (different spring color and the degree of transparency of the top cover).  I’ve also typed on pretty scratchy vintage MX Blacks (proper large logos etc).  Vintage has higher probability of being very smooth, but it’s not a guarantee.
« Last Edit: Wed, 02 January 2019, 22:44:46 by Photoelectric »
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Offline actualglacier

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 05 January 2019, 14:11:52 »
I've been in this community for around 8 years at this point (on my lurk account) and after going through 10+ keyboards and trying out a bunch more at meetups, I can safely say MX brown (or any of its variations) is still my favorite switch to type on.

I recently just got a board built with lubed greetech browns and my god they feel amazing. There's just something really pleasant and subtle about the non-distracting tactility of browns that makes them so fun and fast to type on.
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 January 2019, 14:15:15 by notglacier »
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Offline macclack

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 05 January 2019, 15:37:54 »
I've been in this community for around 8 years at this point (on my lurk account) and after going through 10+ keyboards and trying out a bunch more at meetups, I can safely say MX brown (or any of its variations) is still my favorite switch to type on.

I recently just got a board built with lubed greetech browns and my god they feel amazing. There's just something really pleasant and subtle about the non-distracting tactility of browns that makes them so fun and fast to type on.
I agree with your comment about green tech browns.

Online dallman5

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 05 January 2019, 16:08:01 »
I've been in this community for around 8 years at this point (on my lurk account) and after going through 10+ keyboards and trying out a bunch more at meetups, I can safely say MX brown (or any of its variations) is still my favorite switch to type on.

I recently just got a board built with lubed greetech browns and my god they feel amazing. There's just something really pleasant and subtle about the non-distracting tactility of browns that makes them so fun and fast to type on.

I’ve been wanting to try greetech browns for a while now, do you know of a good source for them?
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Offline actualglacier

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 05 January 2019, 16:34:28 »
I've been in this community for around 8 years at this point (on my lurk account) and after going through 10+ keyboards and trying out a bunch more at meetups, I can safely say MX brown (or any of its variations) is still my favorite switch to type on.

I recently just got a board built with lubed greetech browns and my god they feel amazing. There's just something really pleasant and subtle about the non-distracting tactility of browns that makes them so fun and fast to type on.

I’ve been wanting to try greetech browns for a while now, do you know of a good source for them?

I honestly don't know. I bought my board already built with them. I'd say they sound pretty crappy unlubed though, so you'd be better off with just regular MX browns imo, both lubed and unlubed.
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Offline Photekq

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #19 on: Fri, 11 January 2019, 04:30:41 »
And so the legend is perpetuated.

I've never seen a side-by-side comparison of 5000/1838 Browns and say, 11800 Browns, but would love to if anyone has the time/camera.
I think I still have my 11801, but I'm not entirely sure. I'll do a comparison next time I'm home if I can remember.

I agree with what Photoelectric said about lack of consistency when it comes to vintage switches, but I will say that out of the 6 NIB 5000s that have passed through my hands there was little to no variation in switch quality.

Offline appaboy

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 22 January 2019, 01:33:22 »
I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away  :eek:
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Offline dyrdevil

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 22 January 2019, 01:51:43 »
Anyone have any advice where I can find good stock browns? I want to do a build with them.

Offline funderburker

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #22 on: Tue, 22 January 2019, 02:11:37 »
You've all intrigued me, those stock photos are icing on the cake for me! :p

Are retooled MX Browns any good or that's just MX Blacks? Cause I've not seen a lot of vint MX Browns so those could be need some hunting.
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Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 22 January 2019, 19:48:27 »
I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away  :eek:

From which board/year?
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Offline appaboy

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 07 February 2019, 11:49:36 »
I'm going even deeper into the mx vintage brown love by getting a g80 5000, I won't harvest it but I'm excited to try them. I relubed my current Browns with 3203 and they are some of my favorite switches behind vint blacks now
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Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 07 February 2019, 21:15:57 »
I'm going even deeper into the mx vintage brown love by getting a g80 5000, I won't harvest it but I'm excited to try them. I relubed my current Browns with 3203 and they are some of my favorite switches behind vint blacks now

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Offline OfTheWild

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 07 February 2019, 22:39:46 »
I confuse people all the time with this amazing feeling switch setup... 67g golds, gateron brown - lubed and vinyl gaskets, zealencios.

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Offline idlemao

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 07 February 2019, 22:48:56 »
I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away  :eek:

From which board/year?
Would also like to know this  :)

Offline appaboy

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 07 February 2019, 22:54:10 »
I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away  :eek:

From which board/year?
Would also like to know this  :)

Unfortunately I don't know, I got them off mech market on reddit, but 2 things to note is that they had the condoms over them that protect from dirt and dust and they had diodes (I've always had good experiences with diode filled switches)
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Offline macclack

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 07 February 2019, 23:12:57 »
I confuse people all the time with this amazing feeling switch setup... 67g golds, gateron brown - lubed and vinyl gaskets, zealencios.

Show Image


Love it.

Offline idlemao

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 07 February 2019, 23:40:19 »
I got my vintage Browns in just a few days ago and holy hell these are on another level of smooth. The sliders actually look lubed when they aren't because they're smooth and shiny. I put catweewee 55g springs and superlube in them and they feel absolutely fantastic. I actually had a low expectation and was blown away  :eek:

From which board/year?
Would also like to know this  :)

Unfortunately I don't know, I got them off mech market on reddit, but 2 things to note is that they had the condoms over them that protect from dirt and dust and they had diodes (I've always had good experiences with diode filled switches)
I remember that mechmarket post, so you're the lucky person :o

Offline vegs

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #31 on: Fri, 08 February 2019, 02:24:21 »
Fine, I'll bite. For my next build I'll be using vintage Brown stems in retooled Blue housings. Wish me luck :p
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Offline _GMK_

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #32 on: Fri, 08 February 2019, 03:17:51 »
Don't you think that the tactility of the switch disappears and becomes irrelevant when typing very fast?

Probably that's the reason for the proliferation of more tactile alternatives.

Offline Polymer

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« Reply #33 on: Fri, 08 February 2019, 04:40:01 »
No it is still there..

But if you believe (falsely) that the tactility tells you when to stop then yes, at a fast speed, the tactility becomes irrelevant..

Outside of that, the level of tactility, weight of the switches, etc...are all personal preference. 

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #34 on: Fri, 08 February 2019, 05:40:57 »
Fine, I'll bite. For my next build I'll be using vintage Brown stems in retooled Blue housings. Wish me luck :p

Yuss. I've heard click housings make them more tactile, I should try that.
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Offline daerid

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #35 on: Fri, 08 February 2019, 15:52:23 »
I actually really like MX Browns, but only on one board: the Filco MJ2. For some reason every other Cherry Brown board has felt crazy inconsistent.

Now, Gateron Browns? Those I absolutely love...

Offline dyrdevil

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« Reply #36 on: Fri, 08 February 2019, 18:40:16 »
Fine, I'll bite. For my next build I'll be using vintage Brown stems in retooled Blue housings. Wish me luck :p

Please report back with your findings. Might be something I'd like to try.

Offline absyrd

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #37 on: Sun, 10 February 2019, 04:43:10 »
My favorite board other than my HHKB was my poker x with browns. I just like how browns feel with no plate.
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Offline ThoughtArtist

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« Reply #38 on: Sun, 10 February 2019, 13:33:00 »
I like browns at home but clears at work.

I actually threw my remaining Model M in the garbage and found the Model F to be fracking annoying noise-wise despite the nice typist feel. (Yeah, I know what using an actual typewriter is like. I played with Selectrics during my entire childhood.)

Some of what these gentlemen forget is that their ideal typing switch is itself limited when doing other tasks. Lambasting MX Browns for being a generalist switch for computing, WHICH IS WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE, is the epitome of biased, nonsensical criticism.
« Last Edit: Sun, 10 February 2019, 14:03:26 by ThoughtArtist »
The Model-M is more plasticy than a standard metal mounting-plate Cherry MX Brown TKL keyboard.

Offline funderburker

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 11 February 2019, 00:33:41 »
I like browns at home but clears at work.

I actually threw my remaining Model M in the garbage and found the Model F to be fracking annoying noise-wise despite the nice typist feel. (Yeah, I know what using an actual typewriter is like. I played with Selectrics during my entire childhood.)

Some of what these gentlemen forget is that their ideal typing switch is itself limited when doing other tasks. Lambasting MX Browns for being a generalist switch for computing, WHICH IS WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO BE, is the epitome of biased, nonsensical criticism.

Love your avatar photo, very fitting for this thread. Specifically made for this?
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Offline itbesandrodoe

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #40 on: Tue, 12 February 2019, 18:39:51 »
I loved browns, but once I got zilents there is no way I can go back ! Browns still will be my first love <3

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 25 February 2019, 07:23:14 »
The oldest MX browns from Cherry MX5000/1838 are the best Cherry switch ever made imo. I'm not a fan of browns found in boards more recent than those though.

To add some flavor and clarify, it seems like the 5000, 1838, and original Kinesis Contoured (without the lock indicators in the middle) *can* have the oldest MX Browns, but not all do.

Exhibit A: MX5000 with a K date code (1998):


Exhibit B: 1838HPU with an I date code (1996):


By contrast, many of the earlier 11801's are from '97/'98. So it seems that while the MX5000 and 1838 *can* go back farther, not all do.
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Offline Sintpinty

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 25 February 2019, 14:21:49 »
I might want to get browns for my sister since i believe they feel like a rubber dome just without the rubbery part, which is good feels.

Offline Maxyol

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 04 March 2019, 22:33:48 »
Love Browns we’re looking for a forum like this.

Only wish they were a touch clickier

Offline NTwoO

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 05:23:34 »
I'm in a love/hate relationship the with browns in my Kinesis. Now 7 weeks in I've turned off the "click" help to prevent bottoming out. I type very lightly even when speeding up to my meager 50wpm top speed. This is very very VERY nice. Why the hate then? It has ruined me for any other keyboard. Typing on rubber domes causes eternal pain and frustration within the first 5 mushes. Not my thing anymore.

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #45 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 05:38:28 »
Love Browns we’re looking for a forum like this.

Only wish they were a touch clickier

I've heard Brown stems in an MX Blue housing gives it a bit nore tactioity.

I'm also experimenting with lubing the legs on some MX Clears to reduce the tactility a little, seems promising.
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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #46 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 18:55:40 »
Love the old browns, provided they don't have that ridiculously heavy green spacebar.

Offline appaboy

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #47 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 19:57:03 »
Love the old browns, provided they don't have that ridiculously heavy green spacebar.

I assume you mean Grey, and yeah. Tactile greyz were designed for mx clear spacebars not mx Browns but they still included them in their brown boards and it feels excessive in comparison
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Offline Budman

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #48 on: Tue, 05 March 2019, 23:59:23 »
IS this thread relevant for MX Brown clones as well? I am liking my new Gateron Browns better than actual MX ones I've tried in the past. I honestly feel a slightly more tactile bump in the Gaterons and everything else feels the same. Not sure how durability will be though so time will tell.

Offline Audiobs

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 01:14:29 »
IS this thread relevant for MX Brown clones as well? I am liking my new Gateron Browns better than actual MX ones I've tried in the past. I honestly feel a slightly more tactile bump in the Gaterons and everything else feels the same. Not sure how durability will be though so time will tell.

Because the Gateron Brown has a slightly lighter spring than the MX Brown, both springs have the same length, but different no. of coils iirc.

Yes, love MX Brown! I still have my MJ2 with retooled Brown in a Doyu case. I don't use it much but it just feels great everytime I use it. I think if we were all introduced to mechanical keyboard for the first time with every single switch available today, MX Brown will still be one of the top choices.

I also think new retooled version is smoother than its predecessor, stock unlubed and not broken-in. Would love to try my hands on some vintage ones but don't think I will ever find any.

Thanks for creating this thread!

Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #50 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 04:18:20 »
Love Browns we’re looking for a forum like this.

Only wish they were a touch clickier

I've heard Brown stems in an MX Blue housing gives it a bit nore tactioity.

I'm also experimenting with lubing the legs on some MX Clears to reduce the tactility a little, seems promising.

Or lighter springs...it is a reasonably good middle ground if you really want more tactility...

Browns, IMO, feels pretty lame when pressing slowly..but that's not really what they're used for.  When typing they feel great....

Worn in browns feel absolutely fantastic and are one of my favorite switches...I haven't tried the newer Cherry ones to compare but if you can get that same feel with the newer ones out of the box, that's great!

Offline Telstar

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #51 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 11:12:17 »
Browns are among my favourite switches. Blue and bucket spring being a little better but they are too noisy.
I'm going to try Gateron brown as they seem to be inbetween cherry blues and browns with their longer and smoother travel. For this reason I discarded Romer-Gs.
« Last Edit: Wed, 06 March 2019, 11:41:07 by Telstar »

Offline Telstar

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #52 on: Wed, 06 March 2019, 11:27:40 »
Because the Gateron Brown has a slightly lighter spring than the MX Brown, both springs have the same length, but different no. of coils iirc.

https://thegamingsetup.com/gaming-keyboard/buying-guides/keyboard-switch-chart-table
They have a longer actuation point, which is a positive thing for me.
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Offline Telstar

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #53 on: Thu, 07 March 2019, 08:27:02 »
Going back memory lane, I remember the cherry switch tryouts i used and the MX brown felt better than these Gaterons. Probably they were "old" MX, more fluid. These are supposed to be less sandy but it doesn't feel so, especially coming from my model M. I think the longer travel helps, and the force I'm used to put bottoms them out. But… well, the switch search continues.

Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #54 on: Thu, 07 March 2019, 15:15:54 »
You're supposed to bottom out....If you can use just enough force to lightly bottom out that's great...but you shouldn't be holding up speed trying to not bottom out..it is a complete waste of time..

Offline NTwoO

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #55 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 03:08:34 »
The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.

Offline vegs

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #56 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 04:49:48 »
The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.
I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.

And I'm curious, how quickly is "quite quickly"?
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Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #57 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 05:36:58 »
I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.

Some folks' fingers get fatigued/painful with the repeated hard impact, but idk if I'd recommend Browns to solve that, personally.
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Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #58 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 06:27:19 »
The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.

It isn't faster...although maybe on a kinesis it is different. 

Challenge as been up on this board...post a vid of fast typing without bottoming out...There is a difference between slamming it hard and just enough force to touch the bottom (with sometimes not hitting bottom) but the reality is, you're giving up speed in trying to prevent or touching so lightly that you won't hit bottom on a regular basis...

I would also say, tactile switches, which people like to say helps them tell when to stop...only making not bottoming out harder because the force necessary is a ramp UP and then you have a drop off.  The exception to this is something like Clears where the ramp up at the end is so severe it makes it easier to stop before hitting bottom but essentially that is the same as hitting bottom as you've hit a point where you've maxed what your force is vs. the force to go any further.  If you had more force than that you'd have bottomed with that force anyways and yes, that curve is smoother so I recognize it is not exactly the same...

Offline Telstar

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #59 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 07:24:40 »
You're supposed to bottom out....If you can use just enough force to lightly bottom out that's great...but you shouldn't be holding up speed trying to not bottom out..it is a complete waste of time..

Were you addressing me?
Cause I totally bottom out and find the resistance of the browns not enough.


Offline NTwoO

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #60 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 07:27:44 »
The Kinesis uses the internal beeper to train your fingers to follow the tactile bump and prevent bottoming out. Using this I've managed to learn to type without bottoming out quite quickly. It does feel faster, but maybe I'm learning it wrong. Beeper is off now and I'm still only typing on the tactile bump with slight bottoming on some of the strokes. It does feel more fluid and faster. Maybe it is only subjective.
I legitimately don't see the potential benefit of not bottoming out. At least for me, trying to not bottom out requires way more effort compared to bottoming out.

And I'm curious, how quickly is "quite quickly"?

After two to three weeks I manage to type with about 10-20% of the buttons bottoming out. Only when I think too long about typing a less used character I tend to bottom out hard. The rest of the time it is mostly a light touch or a soft bottom out. My speed is not high (50-55wpm), but it feels faster if I don't bottom out all the time

Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #61 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 08:35:53 »
After two to three weeks I manage to type with about 10-20% of the buttons bottoming out. Only when I think too long about typing a less used character I tend to bottom out hard. The rest of the time it is mostly a light touch or a soft bottom out. My speed is not high (50-55wpm), but it feels faster if I don't bottom out all the time

Bottoming out softly but still maintaining your speed is fine...but the effort to not bottom out or to touch lightly to prevent bottoming out means you give up speed.

If it is happening naturally then there is no issue..but at 55wpm, it is hard to say that's really the case....

For years people were trying to talk about tactile bump and not bottoming out and this and that...its all BS...Bottoming out doesn't mean you're slamming it..but it just means you're not limiting the speed at which your fingers are moving by trying to not hit the bottom..you shouldn't care whether or not you bottom out...

For people where there is a true medical problem and you don't want to bottom..fair enough...but then you've already recognized you'll need to give up speed to do that...But the whole thing with typing faster if you don't bottom out is a total lie..

Offline mkkeyboardvigilante

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #62 on: Fri, 08 March 2019, 18:27:02 »
I still have this smaller Cherry MX Brown keyboard in my closet and I pulled it out for the first time in a while, and it felt better than I remembered when bottoming out lightly. I had put some nice PBT caps on it since the stock caps felt terrible to me when I used to use it regularly.
Current driver: HHKB Pro 2 (BKE Ultra Lights), Wooting One w/ Flaretech Red switches and HyperX PBT keycaps.

Other keyboards I own and like: Realforce 87U Variable Weight, Realforce 87U 55g, Niz Plum, Magicforce 108 Gateron Reds w/ O-Rings.

Other keyboards I have: Magicforce 68 Cherry MX Brown, Havit Low-Profile Kailh Blue, Logitech K740,
Yeah, it's a loooooooooooot of keyboards. :P

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #63 on: Sat, 09 March 2019, 07:09:14 »
I think, with nice light springs, Browns let you type softer and accurately than more tactile or linear switches. They give you a very light amount of feedback that doesn't really interrupt keytravel.
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Offline wellbeing44

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #64 on: Sat, 16 March 2019, 04:45:09 »
I think cherry browns in panda housing may potentially be a super brown, will have to try that out soon.

Offline Kavik

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #65 on: Thu, 21 March 2019, 23:45:37 »
I just got a cheap keyboard today with Outemu Browns (Velocifire TLK02WS).

They're not as bad as everyone says, but they are nothing special: my impression after a single night of use. These are pretty rough/scratchy and some of the keys are pingy, but I don't seem to notice these things when typing. They're a little too light, and I'm making way more mistakes than usual, but I must say that I do like the sound they make (except for this rattly spacebar).

I can definitely see how these are considered a decent all-around switch. It does make me want to try MX Clears though.

I'm not sure how closely the Outemu Browns resemble the MX Browns, but they seem fairly similar to the Kinesis Advantage I tried once.
« Last Edit: Wed, 15 July 2020, 00:22:10 by Kavik »
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #66 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 17:40:22 »
Sorry to dig up this old thread, but has anyone ever tried putting a Cherry MX Brown spring into a Gateron Brown switch?

I think the light Cherry springs (blue, red, brown) are ~62g? The Gateron Brown spring feels lighter overall, especially in the bottom out.

I put one switch together and it feels pretty nice. Wondering if anyone has ever tried a full board...

Offline jamster

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #67 on: Tue, 14 July 2020, 20:54:28 »
The "Cherry MX RBG Brown" that came in a switch tester recently is much smoother than the horribly scratchy MX Browns I have from about 5 years ago (Tensoro external number pad).

Sample size of a single switch so, take it with a grain of salt.

Has Cherry updated their molds for MX Browns? This one single instance feels like a totally different switch.

Offline Kavik

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #68 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 00:25:02 »
The "Cherry MX RBG Brown" that came in a switch tester recently is much smoother than the horribly scratchy MX Browns I have from about 5 years ago (Tensoro external number pad).

Sample size of a single switch so, take it with a grain of salt.

Has Cherry updated their molds for MX Browns? This one single instance feels like a totally different switch.

This isn't an answer to your question, but I've had a similar experience with MX Blacks. I have one from a switch tester that is perfectly smooth. No other MX Black switch or other linear switch I have compares. I don't know why it's so much better.
Maybe they're waiting for gasmasks and latex to get sexy again.

The world has become a weird place.

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #69 on: Wed, 15 July 2020, 09:51:31 »
The "Cherry MX RBG Brown" that came in a switch tester recently is much smoother than the horribly scratchy MX Browns I have from about 5 years ago (Tensoro external number pad).

Sample size of a single switch so, take it with a grain of salt.

Has Cherry updated their molds for MX Browns? This one single instance feels like a totally different switch.

This isn't an answer to your question, but I've had a similar experience with MX Blacks. I have one from a switch tester that is perfectly smooth. No other MX Black switch or other linear switch I have compares. I don't know why it's so much better.

I'm also wondering how different are the new "Hyperglide" switches (100 million actuations):

https://www.cherrymx.de/en/blog/how-to-diy-keyboard-part-3-cherry-mx-original.html

Offline voodoo6k

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #70 on: Thu, 16 July 2020, 13:24:49 »
Sorry to dig up this old thread, but has anyone ever tried putting a Cherry MX Brown spring into a Gateron Brown switch?

I think the light Cherry springs (blue, red, brown) are ~62g? The Gateron Brown spring feels lighter overall, especially in the bottom out.

I put one switch together and it feels pretty nice. Wondering if anyone has ever tried a full board...

Would it be correct to call those ErgoBrowns? Or are they something else (heavier spring)?

Edit: https://drop.com/buy/gateron-ergoclear-switch-sampler-bundle#overview

ErgoGateron
« Last Edit: Thu, 16 July 2020, 13:29:32 by voodoo6k »

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #71 on: Thu, 16 July 2020, 13:50:25 »
I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

Offline ramnes

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #72 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 05:12:57 »
I'll probably build a kustom with 11800 browns soon™. Will report back if I like it or not.
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Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #73 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 07:35:22 »
I'll probably build a kustom with 11800 browns soon™. Will report back if I like it or not.

Interested to hear your take on it! Using my POM half plate with Browns on a thin h87a for work today. I’ve used Browns only on soft plates/no plate so far, but do have a spare aluminum plate here and some 11800 Browns. Might have to be build for this winter...
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Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #74 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 10:36:10 »
I'll probably build a kustom with 11800 browns soon™. Will report back if I like it or not.

Interested to hear your take on it! Using my POM half plate with Browns on a thin h87a for work today. I’ve used Browns only on soft plates/no plate so far, but do have a spare aluminum plate here and some 11800 Browns. Might have to be build for this winter...

And how do you like it Mr Proximity
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Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #75 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 10:46:58 »
I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.


Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #76 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 16:02:50 »
Yeah , true. If I use super light spring it doesn't really feel good to me because it's more trying NOT to bottom out than just typing fast!
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Offline Rayndalf

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #77 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 18:27:52 »
I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.
In a weird way the bump is better for gaming than typing (occasionally you'd want to know exactly when a key will actuate and the bump gives you feedback if you're pressing it slowly).

The strength of browns IMO is that the feedback is easy to ignore when it isn't important, and doesn't require you to slam through a giant bump everytime (I found Zilents to be obnoxious because it was all bump so it was 3mm of travel everytime, and no travel before or after the bump). There is a big difference between typing to avoid bottoming out and being required to bottom out everytime, but both seem exhausting.

Offline hvontres

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #78 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 18:48:58 »
While they aren't really "Browns" I have found that I like the Hako True switches for my build. They have enough of a bump that one can tell that a switch got hit, but not enough to feel harsh or in the way. And I like the way there is a positive curve on the force after the bump. While it won't keep me form allways bottoming out, it does help slow down your finger before you hit bottom. I think part of the reason that people are so concerned with bottoming out is that the need to bottom out on a rubber dome switch is probably one of the things that make them so horrible to use in the long run.

I came at this project after a couple of months of using a Model M at home during the lock down and I wanted something that felt comfortable yet would be less antagonizing in an office environment. Honestly, most of the "clicky" switches are kind of Meh compared to a buckling spring. Yes, you get the racket, but what most people don't recognize is that the "click" in a buckling spring is inherently synchronized to the switch actuation, unlike a blue or even a click bar switch where you are relying on the tolerance between the external event and a small bump on the stem of the switch.

I am probably in a minority of people who actually prefer a slightly heavier switch, but that is the beauty of this hobby. Rather then being stuck with whatever some marketing guy thought would sell, we can built exactly what works for us.
Henry von Tresckow

               
1986 Model M 1390131, 1987 Model M 1391401 , 1993 Model M2 Modded Reddragon k556(work keyboard)

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #79 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 20:24:55 »
While they aren't really "Browns" I have found that I like the Hako True switches for my build. They have enough of a bump that one can tell that a switch got hit, but not enough to feel harsh or in the way. And I like the way there is a positive curve on the force after the bump. While it won't keep me form allways bottoming out, it does help slow down your finger before you hit bottom. I think part of the reason that people are so concerned with bottoming out is that the need to bottom out on a rubber dome switch is probably one of the things that make them so horrible to use in the long run.

I came at this project after a couple of months of using a Model M at home during the lock down and I wanted something that felt comfortable yet would be less antagonizing in an office environment. Honestly, most of the "clicky" switches are kind of Meh compared to a buckling spring. Yes, you get the racket, but what most people don't recognize is that the "click" in a buckling spring is inherently synchronized to the switch actuation, unlike a blue or even a click bar switch where you are relying on the tolerance between the external event and a small bump on the stem of the switch.

I am probably in a minority of people who actually prefer a slightly heavier switch, but that is the beauty of this hobby. Rather then being stuck with whatever some marketing guy thought would sell, we can built exactly what works for us.

Model M is great if you like a heavier switch, maybe even ideal. Very satisfying if you really hammer on the keys, but it wears me out too much. Model F is to Model M as MX Browns are to MX Clears, I could type on Model F all day.
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Offline Polymer

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #80 on: Fri, 02 October 2020, 22:48:14 »
I'm planning to experiment with "Ergo Browns" soon.

I already have some lubed MX Browns with 55 gr Spirit springs on the way, and next I'm going to try 45 gr springs.

WRT what was said earlier on the thread, it is possible to train yourself to type lightly on the Browns and not bottom-out. Or at least barely bottom-out, so that you're not transmitting too much force to the board. You can easily float on Browns because of the light springs and low tactility. It's a good switch for that if you have hover hands like you're supposed to.

But I would be interested in attempts to change the spring weight and tactility of the switch to further improve the tactile feedback or reduce the impact of bottoming-out. I'll try to update on how the lubed Browns go, as well as the possible 45 gr Browns.

It is possible to train yourself to not bottom out or barely bottom out..but you're giving up speed.  The level of effort I've seen people spend trying to not bottom out, including messing up their form is just not a good thing. 

For a long time there was this notion that the tactile bump helps train you and the proper way of using mech keyboards was to not bottom out..that's just someone's made up pipe dream that keeps perpetuating over and over.
In a weird way the bump is better for gaming than typing (occasionally you'd want to know exactly when a key will actuate and the bump gives you feedback if you're pressing it slowly).

The strength of browns IMO is that the feedback is easy to ignore when it isn't important, and doesn't require you to slam through a giant bump everytime (I found Zilents to be obnoxious because it was all bump so it was 3mm of travel everytime, and no travel before or after the bump). There is a big difference between typing to avoid bottoming out and being required to bottom out everytime, but both seem exhausting.

For me the tactile bump is there more for feel and rhythm since linears give you nothing..but as you said, not enough on the browns to force extra effort....I quite like brown but completely understand why some people do not.  And then you look at worn in browns..they're just great..the bump is cleaner and somehow the switch feels more stable..the bump is a single straight bump rather than what sometimes feels like a shakey bump with new browns...

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #81 on: Mon, 05 October 2020, 16:21:04 »
Guys I used to hate mx brown but I never knew that the keyboard that you have them in makes such a big difference

So make sure you have a really nice keyboard before you judge Mx brown user.
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Offline shadowcelery

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #82 on: Wed, 07 October 2020, 12:54:41 »
My first mechanical keyboard was a cherry brown board its honestly a pretty solid switch. I hadn't even tried them lubed until very recently.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #83 on: Wed, 07 October 2020, 15:46:32 »
Personally I've started to prefer the Otemu Browns over the Cherry Browns, feel a bit smoother - could still benefit from a lube and filming either way.  I have them in my board I have for work - a inexpensive Velocifire TKL01 (think I only paid $30 for it).  The MX-browns that were in my iKBC Poker II were extremely scratchy, fortunately those are now desoldered and in a bag in my desk for me to  use them for something else.

Offline ddrfraser1

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #84 on: Wed, 07 October 2020, 16:08:56 »
Would you guys please stop opening my mind to the merits of MX browns? I don't appreciate being pleasantly enlightened.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #85 on: Wed, 07 October 2020, 16:20:44 »
I'm happy with them on my board at work, but the Black Ink v1's I use at home are extremely relaxing  :))
Part of me wants to put a set of Jades in a board to annoy my staff though, lol.

Offline treeleaf64

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #86 on: Thu, 08 October 2020, 21:09:25 »
Personally I've started to prefer the Otemu Browns over the Cherry Browns, feel a bit smoother - could still benefit from a lube and filming either way.  I have them in my board I have for work - a inexpensive Velocifire TKL01 (think I only paid $30 for it).  The MX-browns that were in my iKBC Poker II were extremely scratchy, fortunately those are now desoldered and in a bag in my desk for me to  use them for something else.

Yeah my brother's friend has a keyboard with the Outemu browns. They're surprisingly smooth. Nicer than not retooled Cherry.

I don't care about sound anymore, and I rather like the feel of them. It's a medium tactility switch, definitely more tactility than normal Cherry brown.
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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #87 on: Thu, 08 October 2020, 21:21:00 »
Yeah, a few things here.

First, some of the clone Browns are more interesting than the pre-retooled MX Browns.

Many people find the OUTEMU Browns to be more tactile. I found Kailh Browns to offer that extra bit of tactility, that makes them feel more substantial. However, the ones I demoed must have been worn-in, because they were smoother and nicer to operate than the fresh Kailh Browns I tried in hotswap - they were grittier and heavier than I would have liked. The Kailh Browns I demoed in-store were mounted in a low-profile alum "gaming" keyboard, and my hotswap was a similar, but not identical setup. I think the keyboard type and break-in makes a difference with those.

As for Browns being dependent on keyboard construction, that's probably true. The earliest Browns used softer plates, half-plates, or went plateless. Now they are jammed into aluminium and even steel plates in tight and strict set-ups. Some people who used Vints say that the modern mounting style of Cherry Browns is just harsher than in the past.

Vint Browns are said to be both smoother, and slightly more tactile than any modern MX Browns. I guess maybe they were closer to Zeal V1? I guess with the OxBloods, maybe we'll find out.

Yeah, mount style seems to be significant. And if the OxBloods work out, someone will have to throw them into a J80 / A06, so we can get a more throwback type setup.

A switch that may succeed at being a 'better Brown' is the Everglide Jade. It uses the Rara stem, which is a shaved-down T1 to have tactility at the intensity of MX Clear instead of T1. It is further put in a linear housing, so it's not getting T1-leaf tactility. It's like a Brown with a sharper, more pronounced bump, and is smoother. Once lubed, it sounds and feels great, offering just enough tactility, a little more satisfying than MX Brown.

The only problem is that it wobbles a bit. So you might have to film them. The next generations of switches using the Rara stem may improve upon this.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #88 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 08:57:33 »
^ Might have to sample theses, I know I should tear down my Velocifire with the Otemu's since they do have a good amount of wobble, a bit 'o lube and some .15mm films should clean that up a bit.  I've debated on taking the MX Brown stems and swapping them into a linear housing just to mess around and see how it performs, but of course the only linear switches I have apart right now are my Mito Laser switches - was leaning more towards using something like a NK Dry/Silk housing.

Offline Riverman

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #89 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 12:18:54 »
I had a Cherry G80-3494 with silent black linear switches that I swapped brown stems and springs into.  It was very nice to type on.  The switches were light and as tactile as a Cherry brown switch gets, but I can't say that I noticed any difference between that one and a Cherry G80-3000 I also had that came from the factory with brown switches.  At least in that very unscientific comparison, the housings didn't seem to make a difference.  I did think that the G80 was pretty noisy with brown switches, probably because of its thin, hollow case.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #90 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 14:55:52 »
^ Might have to sample theses, I know I should tear down my Velocifire with the Otemu's since they do have a good amount of wobble, a bit 'o lube and some .15mm films should clean that up a bit.  I've debated on taking the MX Brown stems and swapping them into a linear housing just to mess around and see how it performs, but of course the only linear switches I have apart right now are my Mito Laser switches - was leaning more towards using something like a NK Dry/Silk housing.

Never heard of anyone putting Brown into a linear housing! Usually, they are aiming for more tactility with Browns.

[I recently saw a post where someone praised the MX Brown housing, saying that it offered a helpful amount / balance of tactility and smoothness. Must have been a retooled Brown, or a Vint! But yes, I think we have to consider the possibility that, for many peoples' needs, a properly-built Brown switch offers the right amount of tactility and smoothness.]

Also, if you are going for the Everglide Jades, be sure to lube them. The best results for me were a liberal application of 3204. Make sure to lube the springs as well. They're good springs, and lube fixes most of the switch's problems.

Offline Darthbaggins

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #91 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 16:45:47 »
Good to know, I have stocked up on lube as of lately since it was not the easiest thing to get for a little while back in March/April (I have 205g0, 3204, 3203, 105, & dielectric which I normally have for automotive reasons).  Was thinking the Kaihl Jades, want a thick and pronounced click for the warehouse desk board in a MX variant, lol.  Was also debating on just using them in a custom macro or num-pad instead of a whole board.
« Last Edit: Fri, 09 October 2020, 16:48:20 by Darthbaggins »

Offline DALExSNAIL

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #92 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 22:04:14 »
If you discount browns for the lack of tactility, then you do not understand the point of the switch as a whole.

Offline pr0ximity

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #93 on: Fri, 09 October 2020, 22:24:19 »
If you discount browns for the lack of tactility, then you do not understand the point of the switch as a whole.

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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #94 on: Sat, 10 October 2020, 10:56:38 »
I agree, but people often wonder if something like an MX Brown could be made, with just a little more satisfying tactility.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #95 on: Sat, 10 October 2020, 11:03:05 »
Tp4 LOVES MX-Brown.

Just kidding..  THey is the Sux0rz..

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #96 on: Sat, 10 October 2020, 16:52:37 »
Interesting video - this guy has a theory about hate for Browns. You know how everyone was recommended MX Brown back in the day? He thinks that people went out and bought the most 'affordable' keyboard to access Browns, and often they were poorly-built gaming keyboards. That soured them on Browns. So it's a board build-quality issue.


However, I don't think that's the main factor. I think he's half-right. Lots and lots of people were told to get MX Browns. So they did. But if they were looking for a "tactile" switch, the Browns would not have been enough.

This has been discussed before, but I think it's a 'false advertising' issue. Marketing these switches as 'tactiles' was a mistake that caused hate.

Offline macclack

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #97 on: Sat, 10 October 2020, 22:33:32 »
Interesting video - this guy has a theory about hate for Browns. You know how everyone was recommended MX Brown back in the day? He thinks that people went out and bought the most 'affordable' keyboard to access Browns, and often they were poorly-built gaming keyboards. That soured them on Browns. So it's a board build-quality issue.


However, I don't think that's the main factor. I think he's half-right. Lots and lots of people were told to get MX Browns. So they did. But if they were looking for a "tactile" switch, the Browns would not have been enough.

This has been discussed before, but I think it's a 'false advertising' issue. Marketing these switches as 'tactiles' was a mistake that caused hate.

There's some truth in this video—I recently built a Klippe S with Cherry browns and love typing on it. I know nothing about the Ducky he upgraded to other than seeing it online. Is it really that big of an upgrade from the Corsair?

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #98 on: Sat, 10 October 2020, 23:46:30 »
I've only ever demoed a Corsair in-store. They're not so bad in-store. They could choose one with no defects and with a good batch of switches for the display keyboard.

In a crowded, busy store, you can't really hear the spring ping or case reverb all that well. Rattling stabs, hollowness and echoes, and an inconsistent sound profile across the board might not become immediately apparent. You just see the shiny case amidst a store full of overbright lights.

So these negative features of many common 'gaming' keyboards are easily overlooked. Not to mention bad PCBs and other things that will screw up the typing experience over time, or cause outright board failure.

At home, quietly typing, is where a Ducky might prove superior. It could be sturdier [you don't always move display boards around in the store], it might be thockier due to case design, the stabs are probably better and not as rattly, the PBT keycaps will offer subtle advantages here as well. So my view is that the subtleties that make a Ducky better [and especially a Varmilo or Leopold] won't be immediately apparent in a store, when compared to a Corsair.

So it would be easy for a new person to see a flashy Corsair and be impressed by that, even though a Ducky or especially Leopold/Varmilo might deliver a better long-term experience with MX Browns. To be fair, though, I've seen a number of gaming keyboards actually using good MX Brown switches. I just think that other elements of the board may be deficient.
« Last Edit: Sat, 10 October 2020, 23:48:46 by HungerMechanic »

Offline macclack

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #99 on: Sun, 11 October 2020, 15:39:06 »
So my view is that the subtleties that make a Ducky better [and especially a Varmilo or Leopold] won't be immediately apparent in a store, when compared to a Corsair.

Yes, that was my exact reaction. A true upgrade would most likely be in the form of a Varmilo or Leopold—they are about as good as it gets for non-custom IMO. But as I said, I haven't used a Ducky so I'm wasn't sure if they're in the same league.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #100 on: Sun, 11 October 2020, 17:55:18 »
Ducky's just a tier below Leopold and Varmilo. It's a bit more chunky and unrefined in design, stabs probably a little lesser. Keycaps are nice double-shot PBT, but may not have the best fit for everyone, and I think they're OEM profile.

Offline Riverman

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #101 on: Mon, 12 October 2020, 11:13:57 »
I had a Ducky One 2 for a while recently, and it was very nice.  Their newer designs are sleeker and lower profile than Leopold and Varmilo, but I hated how you can't see the lock lights, and the side-by-side markings on the number keys bugged me.  Ducky's keycaps are definitely OEM profile, which is nice if you want to use QMX Clips.  The Ducky One 2 with brown switches and QMX Clips was one of the nicest keyboards I've ever typed on.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #102 on: Wed, 14 October 2020, 13:39:11 »
Interesting - someone has written up reasons why they think MX Brown is less than it could be as a tactile switch. It's very detailed, and well-reasoned, although it may miss the overall point of "minimal response" that MX Brown is going for:

Cherry MX Brown: Tactile in all the wrong ways

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechSwitchReview/comments/j52imf/cherry_mx_brown_tactile_in_all_the_wrong_ways/

Online Rob27shred

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #103 on: Wed, 14 October 2020, 15:42:09 »
Interesting video - this guy has a theory about hate for Browns. You know how everyone was recommended MX Brown back in the day? He thinks that people went out and bought the most 'affordable' keyboard to access Browns, and often they were poorly-built gaming keyboards. That soured them on Browns. So it's a board build-quality issue.


However, I don't think that's the main factor. I think he's half-right. Lots and lots of people were told to get MX Browns. So they did. But if they were looking for a "tactile" switch, the Browns would not have been enough.

This has been discussed before, but I think it's a 'false advertising' issue. Marketing these switches as 'tactiles' was a mistake that caused hate.

There's some truth in this video—I recently built a Klippe S with Cherry browns and love typing on it. I know nothing about the Ducky he upgraded to other than seeing it online. Is it really that big of an upgrade from the Corsair?

Actually IME yes a Ducky would be a huge step up from a Corsair mech. Not sure about Corsair's latest lineup of boards, but their older ones were terribly designed & built especially considering what they charged for them! They were built just like Magicforce boards, a thin plastic bottom housing with a thin aluminium top housing that also served as the plate. Duckys on the other hand are pretty solid for a prebuilt. Decently thick high quality plastic housing (top & bottom housing) with a nice painted steel plate. I can't really speak to the quality of Corsair's KB PCBs since I've never owned one, but there is a constant stream of "Help my "insert key name here" key is chattering or not registering" posts pertaining to Corsair boards on r/mk. So I personally wouldn't expect a high quality PCB in a Corsair board.

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Love MX Browns? Post here. (Hate them? Go away.)
« Reply #104 on: Wed, 14 October 2020, 18:07:32 »
Yeah, in that community, "Corsair" is practically a swear word.