Author Topic: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60  (Read 23355 times)

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Online Vigrith

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #150 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 12:15:45 »
For what it's worth, here's my take on the plate and weight pricing - I don't feel $50~ extra for a PVD brass plate upgrade is too out of the ordinary, considering there are several options being offered rather than just the one plate for every layout (as is with most TKLs or 65%, etc) I can understand that the cost may be justifiable and I have seen similar situations with other very successful GBs.

That said, at just like 7-10 bucks extra for the plate and weight respectively to just get an extra on top of your already included versions, that's a disproportionately attractive deal in my opinion. If the prices remain as is, there's no real reason to flat out replace your standard options, rather just get a set of extras for like $15 together with an extra PCB if you're worried about it being proprietary and not being readily available if something does happen to your other one.

PS: the weight is expensive either way you go about it however, but without knowing how the machining etc works I'd rather not comment/complain.

Online juaninamilli

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #151 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 13:59:12 »
The machining on the weight is happening whether it's brass or aluminum. That being said, I would say that the size and complexity does justify a little price increase. If you look at it from a "credit" stand point, though, you're hardly getting anything back for omitting the base aluminum during the upgrade. The plate is a different story. There isn't anything special about it to garner that high of an upgrade cost. It's very obvious that higher margins are being made on the upgrades and it's trying to motivate us (the customer) to by extras instead. I've already placed my order with both upgrades, but I'm definitely going to to be down grading, because I don't see the value of the current cost/brass ratio.
For what it's worth, here's my take on the plate and weight pricing - I don't feel $50~ extra for a PVD brass plate upgrade is too out of the ordinary, considering there are several options being offered rather than just the one plate for every layout (as is with most TKLs or 65%, etc) I can understand that the cost may be justifiable and I have seen similar situations with other very successful GBs.

That said, at just like 7-10 bucks extra for the plate and weight respectively to just get an extra on top of your already included versions, that's a disproportionately attractive deal in my opinion. If the prices remain as is, there's no real reason to flat out replace your standard options, rather just get a set of extras for like $15 together with an extra PCB if you're worried about it being proprietary and not being readily available if something does happen to your other one.

PS: the weight is expensive either way you go about it however, but without knowing how the machining etc works I'd rather not comment/complain.

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #152 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 14:35:28 »
Uhh i think i want to change my order. Do i just pm? Or can i request my old order to be cancelled and i make a new one?

Just feel free to PM

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #153 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 14:37:50 »
but I can still order to China right?

This is a little tricky but yes.

Offline -musubi

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #154 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 14:38:23 »
Just out of curiosity, can the hotswap pcb be tweaked in a way to fit 2u backspace (via desoldering), or are the switch holes completely fixed in the specified pattern in the image? Sorry not very familiar with hotswap pcbs at all.

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #155 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 14:43:50 »
Are all those options supposed to be there for the weight? I'm having a hard time imagining a clear PC weight.

EDIT: After reading again, I'm assuming these are for the leaf shape accessory/logo on the bottom?

EDIT2: If you can get the whole weight in clear PC, do you have a render or photo of a completely clear PC build? (case, plate, weight, leaf accessory). Just trying to imagine what it would look like.

Yes. We call it weight but it's basically not. I know it's a little bit confusing. You got the idea.
I don't have a full clear PC build. I have a full opaque white PC prototype tho. My suggestion is to match the brass weight with the PC case unless you want a travel board.

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #156 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 14:46:14 »
is the weight in the order the form the material of the leaf accessory for the back or are they separate pieces?

a whole one

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #157 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:04:04 »
A response to the brass weight/plate upgrade prices:

Several ppl pointed out the price for upgrading alu to brass is expensive. The price for extra brass parts is much more reasonable.
That's true. Now let me explain why.
You know we're offering tons of options to customize. 3 top layouts, 5 plate layouts, 3 materials, 5 finishes.
For several combinations, there might be just several boards will be made.
On the other side, you may have heard some big factories are not willing to accept small orders.
Our order is the worst kind that the factory wants to accept.
Maintaining a good relationship with the engineers and making them cooperative is the most important thing to make the GB smooth.
So when we order the boards, we get quotes for all aluminum kits + extra parts.
That means no matter you buy the aluminum plate or not, the plate will be made, and they cost money.
This is not the single case for Leaf 60. It's the same for all the previous Fox Lab GBs. After every GB we will have many leftover plates/weights.
That's a part of the reason that we can run smooth GBs. The downside is the price for upgrading is expensive.

Online Gati

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #158 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:06:08 »
Iím not trying to call you out or anything, but isnít it standard for vendors to eat the PP fee instead of making the consumer pay for it? (Or have I been making too many non-keyboard purchases? :p)

Online MTXjunkie

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #159 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:06:42 »
A response to the brass weight/plate upgrade prices:

Several ppl pointed out the price for upgrading alu to brass is expensive. The price for extra brass parts is much more reasonable.
That's true. Now let me explain why.
You know we're offering tons of options to customize. 3 top layouts, 5 plate layouts, 3 materials, 5 finishes.
For several combinations, there might be just several boards will be made.
On the other side, you may have heard some big factories are not willing to accept small orders.
Our order is the worst kind that the factory wants to accept.
Maintaining a good relationship with the engineers and making them cooperative is the most important thing to make the GB smooth.
So when we order the boards, we get quotes for all aluminum kits + extra parts.
That means no matter you buy the aluminum plate or not, the plate will be made, and they cost money.
This is not the single case for Leaf 60. It's the same for all the previous Fox Lab GBs. After every GB we will have many leftover plates/weights.
That's a part of the reason that we can run smooth GBs. The downside is the price for upgrading is expensive.

So if we buy the base option just to secure a board during the preorder, we can always go back (within a reasonable amount of time) after the GB and buy the upgrades?


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Offline -musubi

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #160 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:11:03 »
Iím not trying to call you out or anything, but isnít it standard for vendors to eat the PP fee instead of making the consumer pay for it? (Or have I been making too many non-keyboard purchases? :p)

Every keyboard GB Iíve been a part of requires PP sales on the buyer so I donít think itís weird. Feels more intimate :)

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #161 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:15:49 »
Iím not trying to call you out or anything, but isnít it standard for vendors to eat the PP fee instead of making the consumer pay for it? (Or have I been making too many non-keyboard purchases? :p)

It's not standard for custom keyboard GBs.
The PP fee is the cost that the buyers will pay anyhow.
It's just a matter how I declare the price. In the IC post I said $275 excluding PP fee or $290 with fee included to clarify.
Does it really matter for the buyers?
Sure I can mark the price as $290. However, in that case, some people don't even read and think it's without PP fee included.
As most GB runners still declare prices excluding PP fee. I just follow.

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #162 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:17:05 »

So if we buy the base option just to secure a board during the preorder, we can always go back (within a reasonable amount of time) after the GB and buy the upgrades?


Yes, there will be leftover parts for sure.

Online MTXjunkie

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #163 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:18:40 »

So if we buy the base option just to secure a board during the preorder, we can always go back (within a reasonable amount of time) after the GB and buy the upgrades?


Yes, there will be leftover parts for sure.

Hmmmmmm....You may have just sold another board, sir.


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Online juaninamilli

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #164 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:26:38 »
I read this as there will be extra Aluminum parts.

So if we buy the base option just to secure a board during the preorder, we can always go back (within a reasonable amount of time) after the GB and buy the upgrades?


Yes, there will be leftover parts for sure.

Online Rafa_n

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #165 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:31:10 »
You mentioned that you will use a DHL Proxy for shipping, what does that mean exactly?

Offline ChickenBear

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #166 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:45:09 »
Do we get a confirmation email or details regarding the order after we submit the form?

Offline MxBlue

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #167 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:51:31 »
You mentioned that you will use a DHL Proxy for shipping, what does that mean exactly?

Just means it goes from factory -> Hong Kong -> Hong Kong DHL to your door.

Online pixelpusher

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #168 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 15:58:38 »
I'm still not sure about the Alps plate.  I'm wanting to build a WKL alps board in PC with a brass plate. I'm planning to use some OmniKey caps (WLK).  Will there be an Alps WKL plate in brass that does not have a hole cut out under the blocker that will support:

1.5u (blocker) 1.5u, 7u, 1.5u (blocker) 1.5u?
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 January 2019, 16:23:46 by pixelpusher »
:)

Offline Ball-o-tron

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #169 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 16:15:16 »
That means no matter you buy the aluminum plate or not, the plate will be made, and they cost money.
This is not the single case for Leaf 60. It's the same for all the previous Fox Lab GBs. After every GB we will have many leftover plates/weights.

The way you described it, it seems like the "extra" stock has already been paid for by the participants, but since they paid for an "upgrade," they don't get the initial aluminum plate they paid for? Shouldn't they get both in that case?

Offline MxBlue

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #170 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 16:28:38 »
That means no matter you buy the aluminum plate or not, the plate will be made, and they cost money.
This is not the single case for Leaf 60. It's the same for all the previous Fox Lab GBs. After every GB we will have many leftover plates/weights.

The way you described it, it seems like the "extra" stock has already been paid for by the participants, but since they paid for an "upgrade," they don't get the initial aluminum plate they paid for? Shouldn't they get both in that case?

There's margin in all these things, but see it more as he's paying for the plates out of his pocket until someone buys them.

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #171 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 16:59:46 »
That means no matter you buy the aluminum plate or not, the plate will be made, and they cost money.
This is not the single case for Leaf 60. It's the same for all the previous Fox Lab GBs. After every GB we will have many leftover plates/weights.

The way you described it, it seems like the "extra" stock has already been paid for by the participants, but since they paid for an "upgrade," they don't get the initial aluminum plate they paid for? Shouldn't they get both in that case?

You can get both if you want to pay a little bit more. The price difference between upgrade and extra is not large.
There are people only want to use brass plates. They can save several bucks if they upgrade.
I'm being as transparent as I can. You can decide which option is best for you.

Offline finalarcadia

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #172 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 17:28:28 »
Are all brass kits accounted for? Would like to know if I need to make a 2nd order for 2nd board or not.

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Offline ReadmeDotTxt

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #173 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 18:07:26 »
Is the Alps plate/pcb compatible with the HHKB Layout case?

Offline fireworm

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #174 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 18:13:25 »
Is the Alps plate/pcb compatible with the HHKB Layout case?

I believe it is compatible with both WKL and HHKB cases, since it is a 1.5, 1, 1.5 bottom row.

Online pcire

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #175 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 18:20:18 »
Do you have a picture of the clear PC with aluminum plate & weight/leaf?
I'm afraid I can't afford the brass that I want so much, but I might be able to get the standard kit.

Online dado brat

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #176 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 18:51:53 »
So a split space configuration would be possible with standard PCB and standard plate right?

Does the PCB run on QMK?

Also I couldn't find info on the angle of the case, could someone clarify?

This looks really exciting :thumb:
« Last Edit: Fri, 18 January 2019, 18:57:54 by dado brat »

Offline ReadmeDotTxt

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Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
« Reply #177 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 19:05:46 »
So a split space configuration would be possible with standard PCB and standard plate right?


Does the PCB run on QMK?


This uses a custom PCB with the usb port in the middle, so standard PCBs won't work.


Yes, it uses QMK


From the IC:
    • Two versions of proprietary PCBs with middle USB ports. The first version supports variants of MX layouts and WKL ALPS layout. The second version supports hotswap and dedicated HHKB/WKL layout. Both are USB C + QMK

    Online dado brat

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    Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
    « Reply #178 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 19:22:15 »
    So a split space configuration would be possible with standard PCB and standard plate right?


    Does the PCB run on QMK?


    This uses a custom PCB with the usb port in the middle, so standard PCBs won't work.


    Yes, it uses QMK


    From the IC:
      • Two versions of proprietary PCBs with middle USB ports. The first version supports variants of MX layouts and WKL ALPS layout. The second version supports hotswap and dedicated HHKB/WKL layout. Both are USB C + QMK

      Thanks for the quick clarification. I should have specified my questions more. I meant to ask if the split space is possible if I opt for the standard layout plate and non-hotswap version of the PCB offered in this GB.[/list]

      Offline Lazylewis

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      Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
      « Reply #179 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 20:41:15 »
      What do I have to order to build the HHKB in the first photo?  I use a HHKB2 and this looks like an awesome board to be it's companion.

      Offline dantambok

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      Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
      « Reply #180 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 20:55:46 »
      Pmed for order changes  :D

      Offline iamsuperstarr

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      Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
      « Reply #181 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 20:57:17 »
      I love the PC design but I'm a bit worried about it potentially yellowing over time. Would there be a way to prevent this or maybe even fix it if it does turn yellow?

      Offline Iredeus

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      Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
      « Reply #182 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 21:32:16 »
      I love the PC design but I'm a bit worried about it potentially yellowing over time. Would there be a way to prevent this or maybe even fix it if it does turn yellow?

      Keep it out of sunlight

      Offline eagleheardt

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      Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
      « Reply #183 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 22:45:25 »
      What LEDs would you recommend for this board?

      Offline loud_asian

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      Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
      « Reply #184 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 23:04:11 »
      How can we check what we ordered?

      I want to order another and want to make sure I donít get the same config :x

      Offline ian13

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      Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
      « Reply #185 on: Fri, 18 January 2019, 23:32:34 »
      Hmm.. Purple plate/weight on clear polycarbonate case would look good on GMK Taro and HFO, I suppose!

      It's also interesting how PC case will sound on gasket-mount PC plate. Damn, so many options it's so hard to decide! Lol.

      Offline Lormania

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      Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
      « Reply #186 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 00:39:07 »
      Is the Alps plate/pcb compatible with the HHKB Layout case?

      I also want to make sure this is true before I purchase. I would love to get the HHKB top version of the Leaf60 and have an Alps HHKB build!  My understanding is to order the HHKB top version, alps plate, and alps pcb and I would be all good. Apologies if this is obvious but I am a little confused.

      Offline JohnWest

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      Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
      « Reply #187 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 05:54:42 »
      So a split space configuration would be possible with standard PCB and standard plate right?


      Does the PCB run on QMK?


      This uses a custom PCB with the usb port in the middle, so standard PCBs won't work.


      Yes, it uses QMK


      From the IC:
        • Two versions of proprietary PCBs with middle USB ports. The first version supports variants of MX layouts and WKL ALPS layout. The second version supports hotswap and dedicated HHKB/WKL layout. Both are USB C + QMK

        Thanks for the quick clarification. I should have specified my questions more. I meant to ask if the split space is possible if I opt for the standard layout plate and non-hotswap version of the PCB offered in this GB.[/list]

        Yes, that seems right. From the looks of it, split space can only be achieved using the universal plate with the universal PCB.

        Offline JohnWest

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #188 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 06:04:53 »
        What do I have to order to build the HHKB in the first photo?  I use a HHKB2 and this looks like an awesome board to be it's companion.

        Clear PC Case (HHKB layout)
        PVD Brass Plate (Universal layout)
        Universal PCB
        PVD Brass Weight
        (+ GMK Serika keyset from somewhere else!)

        Note that if you currently use a HHKB you will be used to split backspace, which the board in that photo lacks. You can still achieve this with the universal PCB and plate, but you could substitute the PCB and/or the plate for their HHKB-specific counterparts. The HHKB PCB is hotswap let, and the HHKB plate would mean the plate wouldn't have a hole where the corner blockers are.

        Offline JohnWest

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #189 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 06:21:02 »
        Senter, I just wanted to piss in your pocket for a minute and tell you that I appreciate the frequent and comprehensive communication in this IC and GB. I also love your desire to keep experimenting with different things and your willingness to accommodate as many different needs as possible. I've only heard good things about the leaf80 - I'm really looking forward to this one :)

        Offline kiandelmundo

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #190 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 10:08:11 »
        Iím in! Is there a discord server we can join? Thanks!

        Offline tootle

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #191 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 10:49:55 »
        In for an HHKB style Leaf 60 :) Can't wait!

        Offline dantambok

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #192 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:26:19 »
        Hi Senter,

        I sent a PM to change my order but i got an invoice for the old order, not the new one. :)

        Offline heloitsame

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #193 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:46:43 »
        after the group buy ends, will there be extra pcbs? i might want to pick up one afterwards, but right now i cant justify the extra cost.

        Online juaninamilli

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #194 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 12:59:17 »
        Hey Senter, just sent a PM.

        Offline eagleheardt

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #195 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 13:38:48 »
        E-Black case
        PVD brass universal MX plate
        PVD brass weight

        SUPER HYPED!!!!

        Offline ggZyg

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #196 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 14:06:27 »
        Will the PC dedicated WKL plate only offer split shift and backspace?

        Offline tentboy

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #197 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 14:29:15 »
        I cant remember if its been mentioned, does the pcb have underglow?

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #198 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 14:45:55 »
        I cant remember if its been mentioned, does the pcb have underglow?
        It does not

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        Re: [GB] Fox Lab - Leaf 60
        « Reply #199 on: Sat, 19 January 2019, 14:50:30 »
        Is the Alps plate/pcb compatible with the HHKB Layout case?

        Yes

        Is the Alps plate/pcb compatible with the HHKB Layout case?

        I also want to make sure this is true before I purchase. I would love to get the HHKB top version of the Leaf60 and have an Alps HHKB build!  My understanding is to order the HHKB top version, alps plate, and alps pcb and I would be all good. Apologies if this is obvious but I am a little confused.

        Your understanding is correct.