NIB Model F

[iMav]

Well, in a moment of weakness, I decided to pay Clickykeyboards rent for the next couple of months by purchasing a NIB Model F from them.  

Time to see what all the fuss is about.  

[ch_123]

Don't forget the intact foam!

[iMav]

I thought we lost him to the Dark Side (the IBM M4s and all), but finally you realized your mistake and bought an outrageously expensive vintage keyboard!

HHKB is still my favorite layout and blue cherries are still my favorite switches.

I actually had to have a Model F after listening to ripster's audio sample.  

[skcheng]

Awww......I would have hooked you up.   I've got 7 of them now.   I don't think you'll like typing on a NIB AT-F.   The space bar is a killer.   A house broken AT-F is much easier to live with.   But it's definitely an enjoyable experience typing on the AT-F.   And made much nicer with the simple big backspace mod.

I'm getting used to typing on the HHKB2 Pro......haven't determined yet whether I like it or hate it though.   My 11 yr. old hates it.  

[skcheng]

It sounds better than that sample. More pingy.

I agree.   I can't type on an AT-F without cracking a big stupid grin.  It's LOUD.  Comically so......

Webby, have you modified one of your AT-Fs yet??   Or do I have to do it for you  

[didjamatic]

Wait, it's lighter but MORE pingy?  Is it just because it's in a huge reverb tank of a case?

I like big ugly keyboards.

[ch_123]

That, the fact that the whole keyboard assembly is metal, and due to the different springs.

[skcheng]

Wait, it's lighter but MORE pingy?  Is it just because it's in a huge reverb tank of a case?

I like big ugly keyboards.

It is pretty big and ugly isn't it??  

I was speaking to Max Lugar yesterday and he kept telling me how nice it looks LOL.  

Compared to a Model M, it's lighter, twangier, and it has a bounce back rebound that feels different.

[skcheng]

That, the fact that the whole keyboard assembly is metal, and due to the different springs.

And the barrels are separate components compared to the one-piece plastic frame of the Model M.   Really an incredible piece of over-engineering.

[didjamatic]

Great score iMav.   You got a much better deal than the $500 pink alps dude.

[iMav]

I definitely like the idea of how it is designed.  The frame assembly design of the Model M's is flawed, IMO.

[skcheng]

I definitely like the idea of how it is designed.  The frame assembly design of the Model M's is flawed, IMO.

Why do you think that??  Now that I've had a half dozen of these apart, I've realized that I prefer the frame assembly of the AT-F over the crummy rivet design of the standard Model M.

[ch_123]

And the barrels are separate components compared to the one-piece plastic frame of the Model M.   Really an incredible piece of over-engineering.

I think it's out of necessity - I'm not sure how well the thing would work if the barrels were made of metal (in terms of the plastic keycap sliding against metal), and I'd imagine that a sheet of metal with ~90 identical protrusions would be quite expensive and complicated to make.

Now, the Japanese 5576-A01 which has no upper assembly and just a load of removable modules instead... That's just unnecessary.



Brother Telecom could have made individual buckling spring switches, but the keyboard uses a common membrane. So the design is silly because it makes it easy to remove the part least likely to fail at the expense of exposing the part most likely to fail.

[maxlugar]

I haven't modified my only F yet.

Do you want another fairly decent 84-key AT Model F to modify?

[maxlugar]

Well, in a moment of weakness, I decided to pay Clickykeyboards rent for the next couple of months by purchasing a NIB Model F from them.  

Time to see what all the fuss is about.  

Congratulations iMav!

The 84-key AT is very different from the HHKB and Topre switched base boards.  Although it uses buckling springs, it's also quite different from the Model M.

I like 'em all, but my personal favourite is a well kept 84-key AT Model F.

As I was telling SK the other day, I am literally unable to use my laptops undocked without having them connected to my HHKB Pro 2.  It goes everywhere I go.

Looking forward to your post on your experience with the 84-key Model F (even if you absolutely hate it!)

[iMav]

The 84-key AT is very different from the HHKB and Topre switched base boards.

What?  (I find it amusing you felt a need to point this out to me)

Although it uses buckling springs, it's also quite different from the Model M.

I'm counting on a different experience than a Model M.  I've been stagnant with my regularly-used 'boards for a while...wanted to change it up with something different.  

As I was telling SK the other day, I am literally unable to use my laptops undocked without having them connected to my HHKB Pro 2.  It goes everywhere I go.

My HHKB Pro always travels with my laptop as well.  

I'll soon have a Ducky in possession (brown Cherry).  Not sure what I'll do with it.  Probably pass it along to another GH'er at some point, as my Filco's flll that void.

[trievalot]

NIB...thats like Grange Herimitage! Dont open it, its a piece of art, get another from maxlugar and make a shrine to this one.

[maxlugar]

It is pretty big and ugly isn't it??  

I was speaking to Max Lugar yesterday and he kept telling me how nice it looks LOL.  

Nice is and ugly are relative and subjective terms aren't they?   IMO, it's nicer looking than any other keyboard from that era, especially the god awful Northgates.

It's not exactly sexy, but it's not that different looking from other buckling spring IBM keyboards.   At least it dosen't scream antique (i.e 3278 beam spring keyboard or DisplayWriter keyboard).

It looks like what it is... a solid, no-nonsense piece of office equipment that is just as functional today as it was 25 or 26 years ago.  Key cap lettering looks the same as the day it was shipped from the factory, no yellowing plastic, blah, blah, blah.  I just wish the plastic used for the 84-key AT cases was the same as the plastic used for the Model M cases.  Model Ms cases are much less likely to scratch or have the paint wear off.

Realforce keyboards are not exactly on the leading edge of modern aesthetic design either  

[maxlugar]

What?  (I find it amusing you felt a need to point this out to me)

 
I was simply pointing out that the Model F key switch is the 180 degree polar opposite to the Topre key switch.  They happen to be my top two favourite key switches...and I'm pleased you were amused by my comment  

[microsoft windows]

Heh, what are you guys doing with all the Model Fs is what I'm wondering. I don't think I'll wear out mine anytime soon.

If you use any IBM buckling-spring  keyboard for typing, you can't wear it out. If not abused, they'll last forever (And if abused, they still last a long time).

[ch_123]

From my experience, that's definitely not the case. But for some reason, the Model F doesn't seem to be anywhere near as vulnerable to spring wear as the M is.

[maxlugar]

From my experience, that's definitely not the case. But for some reason, the Model F doesn't seem to be anywhere near as vulnerable to spring wear as the M is.

Did you kinda, sorta, in a round about way agree with Microsoft Windows' comment?  

[ch_123]

I was under the impression that MW was saying that Model Ms don't experience spring wear. Or at least that was the logical implication of his comment.

[ch_123]

You lose the game if you buy it from BON.

[ch_123]

Ah, auto-win so.

[iMav]

I advise a Model M5-2.

Interestly enough, I just purchased a new one (Unicomp "on-the-ball", that is).

Was ordering an Endurapro (which I am trading for the Ducky) and decided to throw another keyboard on the order.

[trievalot]

pity they wont make the M5-1.....i prefer the location of the trackball

[clickclack]

Congrats iMav I am sure you will find it interesting =)

I dig the ones I have but I noticed on the F AT/XT the spring vibrates to the point that I feel a slight buzzing on my fingertips. It can irritate me but honestly the only thing that bothers me about them is the stiffness of the AT spacebar. But then again I plan to be a thumb wrestling champ soon, so I guess I doesn't matter =P
The  "cling" instead of "clock/thock" that the M's do can be addicting. I love them both though.


It really does feel like a tank, I really think it will surprise you =)

[ch_123]

Thanks to Jbert, there is an exceptionally simple way to fix that spacebar.

[clickclack]

Well then! You could just throw that whole "thumb wrestling champ" thing OUT THE WINDOW!!!

[kishy]

Well then! You could just throw that whole "thumb wrestling champ" thing OUT THE WINDOW!!!

With your thumbs!

[skcheng]

Thanks to Jbert, there is an exceptionally simple way to fix that spacebar.

I don't know about exceptionally simple??  Took me 4 attempts at bending and straightening to get things the way that I prefer it.

[skcheng]

Congrats iMav I am sure you will find it interesting =)

I dig the ones I have but I noticed on the F AT/XT the spring vibrates to the point that I feel a slight buzzing on my fingertips. It can irritate me but honestly the only thing that bothers me about them is the stiffness of the AT spacebar. But then again I plan to be a thumb wrestling champ soon, so I guess I doesn't matter =P
The  "cling" instead of "clock/thock" that the M's do can be addicting. I love them both though.


It really does feel like a tank, I really think it will surprise you =)

I agree that there is a movement or "vibration" as you call it when you type on the AT-F.   I attribute that to the separate cylinders on the metal plate and the somewhat "loose" nature of the keycaps fitting on those cylinders.  But I do think that the keyfeel is nicer than that of a Model M.

Max Lugar likes the rebound on the AT-F and finds that he can type consistently 10wpm faster on the AT-F compared to the Model M.   I've found the opposite and I can actually type faster on my nuts/bolts modified Space Saving Mini.  

I'd be curious as to how fast others can type on the AT-F and the level of comfort when doing so in comarison to other boards.   Cherry Blues for example??

[ch_123]

I don't know about exceptionally simple??  Took me 4 attempts at bending and straightening to get things the way that I prefer it.

Given the things I've done with keyboards, everything has to be interpreted in relative terms.

And I can probably type fastest on my Blue Cherry Filco, but not all that much faster compared with other keyboards. The Model F is immensely satisfying to type on though because it's so crisp.

[JBert]

I don't know about exceptionally simple??  Took me 4 attempts at bending and straightening to get things the way that I prefer it.

Well, you can't expect me to tell you how to bend the spring to your liking in just one go, especially when even a little change can have some noticeable effect. :-)

"Exceptionally simple" in this case means that you don't need to replace the stabilizer spring with some other kind of spring from some arcane keyboard, doesn't need any seriously destructive action or even won't cost you a penny (except for your NIB status).

[skcheng]

Well, you can't expect me to tell you how to bend the spring to your liking in just one go, especially when even a little change can have some noticeable effect. :-)

"Exceptionally simple" in this case means that you don't need to replace the stabilizer spring with some other kind of spring from some arcane keyboard, doesn't need any seriously destructive action or even won't cost you a penny (except for your NIB status).

Of course I don't hold you responsible for my ineptitude at working my AT-F space bar to perfection  

Exceptionally simple in my mind means a degree of difficulty scaled at say a 1/10 or 2/10.   I don't know if I find that to be true of the space bar mod.......especially the first time around.   I timed myself and I was able to perform the "big backspace" on Max Lugar's daily driver at work in about 15 minutes.   That's compared to the 4 hours it took me the first time around  

[skcheng]

iMav......did you get the board yet??   If so, what do you think??  It's the anti-M4-1 as far as I'm concerned.

[iMav]

iMav......did you get the board yet??   If so, what do you think??  It's the anti-M4-1 as far as I'm concerned.

I'm actually in Maui with the family for a week, so won't be able to get hands on the keyboard till late next week.

[wellington1869]

hey iMav, have you asked for the birth certificate yet? ;-D  
I keeed, I keeed.

[itlnstln]

The Japanese M's have the individual, Brother BS units.

[didjamatic]

Um, that's hot.  Are there any standard layouts with these?  I'd love a small japanese spacebar with modifiers, but otherwise standard layout such as enter key.

[itlnstln]

All the ones I have seen are strictly Japanese layouts.  Check it.

[ch_123]

Nope, only the 5576-A01 and -003

In honesty, they're no more individual than the Model F's ones are.

[nowsharing]

Add me to the NIB AT Model F club

[iMav]

Add me to the NIB AT Model F club

Congrats.  Did you get a good deal on yours or did you bite the bullet and buy from clickykeyboards?  

[maxlugar]

Add me to the NIB AT Model F club

Congrats!

I'll bet you bought if from ripster.  After all, he has no use for that vintage 84-key Model F rubbish.  Not to mention the fact that he paid less for his NIB 84-key than the rest of us chumps and can afford to sell his NIB 84-key and still make a healthy profit.  I just hope you got a fair deal from old rip.

Rip probably needed to make room for his ever expanding collection of those modern, technologically superior Model M Space Saving "Mini" keyboards

Seriously, congrats.

[skcheng]

That board came from here:

Unused Original IBM AT Keyboard

I know that plenty of people were aware of this auction.   I just wonder why it was missing the original power cord and a Del key?

The AT-F is truly the Geekhacker "cult" board.  A small group of people who dig the buckling spring/capacitive switch.   I figure the mainstream crowd just can't get over the unusual layout, the lack of separate arrow keys and the Commodore 64 looks.  

Very nice price.  Only one bid.   Sad too, since a NIB ordinary Model M went for close to $400???

Nice win Nowsharing!!  You'll love the board.

[skcheng]

Congrats!

I'll bet you bought if from ripster.  After all, he has no use for that vintage 84-key Model F rubbish.  Not to mention the fact that he paid less for his NIB 84-key than the rest of us chumps and can afford to sell his NIB 84-key and still make a healthy profit.  I just hope you got a fair deal from old rip.

Rip probably needed to make room for his ever expanding collection of those modern, technologically superior Model M Space Saving "Mini" keyboards

Seriously, congrats.

Hey, I take offense to that statement.   I have a much bigger/nicer collection of Model M "Mini" keyboards   )

[skcheng]

Here are skcheng and ripster fighting it out! Please people, no wagering!

I'm sorry I clicked on that link......

[didjamatic]

I will definitely be getting an AT-F, great switch, overbuilt and pre-1985 vintage that works on a 2010 PC.  It's only issue to me is lack of arrow keys.  But I can hook up a second keyboard Ray Manzarek style for that when needed.