Any ideas how much the PCBs would cost?

FR4-Tg140 material
$35 each at 10 pcs
$25 each at 20 pcs
$20 each at 40 pcs

FR4-Tg170 material
$40 each at 10 pcs
$30 each at 20 pcs
$25 each at 40 pcs

I hope 40 is not a hard number to reach.

I use lead based solder since that's the only stuff I can find at the electronics store

I don't know exactly how that stuff works, but it somehow represents how much heat the material can take. They are really represented in °s 140°C and 170°C. I think it might be best to go with the higher rating, since we amateurs are going to be messing around with our not always too high end soldering skills =) Lead free solder also melts at a higher temperature i think. Also in this case I guess de-soldering might come into question at some point, which probably subjects the board to even higher temperatures (since that is always a mess). Try googling  "tg glass transition pcb" if you are curious...

If I am not overlooking anything in the price quote form the PCBs will be RoHS-compliant.

This might be interesting http://www.fast-product-development.com/pcb-materials-and-specifications.html

I'd opt for the 170 as well. It's not that big of a price difference.

any updates?

I had a stroke of inspiration and spent the last few days redoing this PCB =P I have found that the cherry switches are very easy to open by inserting a blunt nosed pair of tweezers under the locking tabs. If we are going to make a mounting plate that allows for quick stem swapping I thought we should have holes in the PCB to get to the tabs on the switches as well. Here is the result.

Front


Back


And the corresponding plate. With the combo cherry-costar stabilizer mounting holes, and quick-stem-swap slots. (I'm afraid I don't believe anyone installed qcad and had a look at it before...)

Okay, sorry, I'll leave the post above for information purposes, but I realize now that what i'm asking isn't possible while re-using the Filco/PLU/Leo housing and plate, since the switch holes wouldn't line up.

I guess i'd need to have a new plate cut to address this ala Dox.  Something to think about, but either way, I'm quite interested in this project as it would facilitate the custom controller I desire.

One last question though, has any thought been provided to allow additonal LEDs on any of the last 4 function keys or even an option to swap out the pause key for numlock with an LED as well?

Just ideas.

It is not impossible to add LEDs to more switches. It would require some rerouting probably. But the big problem might be that there are no free pins left on the controller. So at the moment there is only room for two different LED "channels". I could probably add them both to almost every key with some serious rethinking, but they would still only be two =) This could of course be "solved" by using the larger Teensy++, regrouping the rows and columns, or with some extra circuitry (multiplexers/demultiplexers).

From a theoretical point of view the required number of pins is in Ω(sqrt(N)) without multiplexers and in Ω(log(sqrt(N))) while using them =D (That was highly esotherical, and if anyone doesn't get it, just don't care)

I don't understand the PCB layout. Is it supposed to take 1.5 units modifiers with 1 unit keys between them, plus a 7 units space bar? Or 1.25 units modifiers and a 6.25 units space bar?

Also, is it possible to fit 4 extra key mounts left and right of the 7 units space bar main switch?

Would be great to have mounting holes in row 3 right from the SW:12 key to fit a 1.25 unit return key.

If yes, I'd be interested in more than one, if the price isn't killing me!

Thanks!



Just another thought:
What if there are bridges used for the connection between the cursor area and the main keyboard?

If there are no connections on the PCB itself, the HHKB clone would be easily made by just cutting off the cursor section!

It is designed to take either a
1.50 - 1.00 - 1.50 - 7.00 - 1.50 - 1.00 - 1.50
or a
1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 6.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25 - 1.25
setup for the space bar row.

I'm not sure of what the exact locations of your extra keys in that row are supposed to be located. Could you specify the width of all keys in the space bar row setup you'd like?

I can certainly add the extra 1.25 enter switch.




I don't think there will be any problem just chopping off unwanted sections of the PCB. There should be no traces venturing back and forth between the different sections. The controller will of course be lost cutting away the function row. It would have to be attached by wires in that case. I've done a mod like this to make a tenkeyless out of my symmetric stagger board. It works but it isn't pretty...

It would be
1.5|1|1.5|1.5|1.5|1|1.5|1.5|1.5|1|1.5
Or simpler:
1.5|1.5|1|1.5|1.5 instead of the 7 units space bar. Please notice, that the spacebar key needs no different place, just left and right 2 extra switches on each side.
(I will post a complete layout later)

It would be really great to have these extra mounts.

Thanks!

ps: It would be even possible to use a spherical 4 units space bar (1.5+1.1+5==4)!


edit:



ps: extra points for filling up the space between cursor T and those 6 other keys.
More extra points for removing the function row and adding a 5x2 function block to the left.
;-)

Whatever rocks your boat I guess ; )
[PCB OF A DREAM KEYBOARD]

Awesome/yellow!

If this comes true, I will take at least 5 of them!

So what are the next steps?  Wasn't BiNi investigating the metal plate before he went to Europe or something?

Metal plates are cheap and easy to order. Like a 3 days turnaround. Once the PCB is finalized we can move forward.

Cool!  Let's start the order list :-)

I am in for 2.

What about setting up an order thread in the Group Buys section of Geekhack and Deskthority and leave this for technical discussion?

2|litster
5|7bit

I'm willing to do the PCB design (well already did), but not too keen on being the one coordinating the whole thing. I'm not even sure I will be using the PCB myself... The PCB is ready as long as noone has anything to add. It has been "done" for quite some time =) I can do the ordering from pcbwing.com and have them sent to someone in the states. That way we will be sure to avoid any sales tax. Or we have someone of you guys submitting the gerber files to the manufacturer.

I could then split and redistribute the PCBs to Europe if they are sent to me lumped together. Us Europeans probably are interested in having plates sent from the US as well. It should be a good idea to coordinate the PCB and mounting plate buys, I think.

I need to go over all the measurements one last time. And if anyone is willing to double check them that would be great. The plate is certainly more critical to get right than the PCB in this case though.

What do you guys think about this:

- start a order thread here on GH and on Deskthority, count how many we need to make.  What is the miniumum number of PCBs before we close?  What does the volume discount look like?
- calculate how much each kit should cost: PCB + plate + shipping to distributor + paypal fee + shipping to buyer (may cost more if need second shippment form the US to our European distributor
- collect money to initiate PCB and plate orders
- BiNiaRiS orders some plates, it would be great if we can order the minimum order to make sure the plate is correct and matches the PCB
- Once plates are confirmed to be correct, then PrinsValium can order PCBs
- Need to find a European distrubutor (7bit?), if there aren't any, we will need to do it from the US
- It would be great if BiNiaRiS can receive PCBs and get the plates done so they can be sent out together.  I would be happy to help with distribution, but I'd rather not deal with money :-)
- will need to decide what to do with ordering switches and diodes (part of the kit or source switches on your own)
- same thing for stabilizers

What am I missing?

I think the original idea was to use your existing switches, stablizers, and outer case from your Filco tenkeyless keyboards.  So I think buyers will need to source their own parts.  One thing I missed is the controller.  What controller is required?  Teensy?  

BiNi, need your input here.  Do you want to drive this since you would be getting plates made?  Thanks.

OK, I just PM'ed the involved parties.  We will have an order thread soon to kick this off.

A few questions:

Can I use Cherry PCB-mounted stabilizers, or do I need to take them from a plate-mounted board?

Can I use Cherry keys for the bottom row like:
1.5  1  1.5  -- 6 --  1.5  1  1  1.5

B) The whole point of this board was to use Cherry bottom row keys in a Filco case...

Thanks, but I am wonder specifically about the key combination
1.5  1  1.5  -- 6 --  1.5  1  1  1.5.

The 6 key wide space bar is a bit special. It is from a G80-1800, G80-11800 or G80-11900 with windows keys, but it does not fit
on a G80-1800 without windows keys or on a G80-3000 with windows keys.

Thanks, but I am wonder specifically about the key combination
1.5  1  1.5  -- 6 --  1.5  1  1  1.5.

The 6 key wide space bar is a bit special. It is from a G80-1800, G80-11800 or G80-11900 with windows keys, but it does not fit
on a G80-1800 without windows keys or on a G80-3000 with windows keys.

It depends on where the center switch is of the 6 units space bar is.

For the pcb, I'm curious why not just buy all the parts of the teensy and surface mount it directly on the pcb? I mean getting the parts and soldering on the pcb seems much nicer (and that's what I'm planning to do with my own keyboard project). As for loading the bootloader, it's pretty easy imo (then again, I have a B.S. in Computer Science).

I know it's late, just curious though.

Quote from: Findecanor;444031

Thanks, but I am wonder specifically about the key combination
1.5  1  1.5  -- 6 --  1.5  1  1  1.5.

The 6 key wide space bar is a bit special. It is from a G80-1800, G80-11800 or G80-11900 with windows keys, but it does not fit
on a G80-1800 without windows keys or on a G80-3000 with windows keys.

This is the setup used on Realforces as well. I would have to look through this at home. If there is room for switch locations. There probably are a few more needed at least. I would have to know where the stems of the space bar is located as well. A mounting plate would probably need to be special order as well.

I think I just did squish the additional mount locations in there =) I need to know the stem locations of all keys to be sure though. I assumed all centered for now. So now the PCB will actually be HHKB layout compatible for real..

This project is so awesome. I want that 7bit special...

You'll have to excuse me for not reading thirteen pages of chatter, but the FAQ doesn't  cover some stuff I'm curious about.

• What sort of rollover will this support. By any chance, will it be able to do full NKEY over USB like some of the community's other teensy controllers(Soarer, etc)?
  
• Also, what happens if we haven't got a Filco case to put this in?
• Does the PCB support PCB mounted switches? It might be nice to have an easily modded board, sans-plate.

Thanks.

TheProfosist is correct.  We are at 6KRO now.  It would be great if someone would help port Soarer's NKRO code to Phantom.

3. Does the PCB support PCB mounted switches? It might be nice to have an easily modded board, sans-plate.

I think I remember reading that the plate would have access holes to facilitate solderless switch modding.  Is that right?