What were your initial impressions of the Kinesis Advantage?

[squarefrog]

I just wondered what your initial impressions of the Kinesis Advantage were? I spent about 3 weeks trying to decide between the Ergodox and the Kinesis Advantage. Eventually, I got frustrated waiting for the various parts of the Ergodox to become available and so bought the Advantage.

I knew there would be some adjustment period to using it, but my first impressions were a massive disappointment. I've got about 25 days left to return it so I'm trying to decide what to do.

Was I just too impatient or is it just not a good fit for me? I program for a living in Objective-C so [ ] placement is pretty important. I found the keyboard to be too tall - I find I have to raise my shoulders to type, which caused me pain.

So how did you find it, and how long did it take for you to get used to it?

[Lanx]

wtf, this weird pos shape and the stationary non tenting one size.

sounds like you need to adjust your keyboard tray/desk/chair alignment, figure that out first.

[squarefrog]

I'm not really sure what you mean? I don't have a keyboard tray, and cannot adjust my desk or chair any more than I already have. The only option for me was to use it on my lap, which just felt odd.

[Lanx]

yea might want to look for more adjustment options, don't conform to your desk, make your desk conform to you, or bones will cry in a few months.

[squarefrog]

If I were working from home that would be a possibility. But I work in an open plan office with around 30 other devs so the furniture is more or less set in stone.

I don't know what other options I'd have for configuring the advantage. Incidentally I'm coming from the ms 4000 which is just too much of a stretch for backspace/enter. I do like the tenting though.

[Findecanor]

If you can't lower the desk, could you raise your chair?
A workmate used a Kinesis Advantage in his lap, even though he had a very adjustable sit/stand desk and adjustable chair.

It took me a few weeks to get used to it, but it has mostly been in a box after that. For me too the keyboard was too high and I don't like to have my keyboard in my lap. The biggest nuisance for me though was that I wasn't used to touch-typing correctly with all my fingers so I had to basically re-learn how to type, but I think that I left being a better typist afterwards because of having to learn it.

The keys can be remapped, so you could remap the bracket keys to somewhere else.

[jacobolus]

One thing you could do if your chair is too low for your desk and you can’t boost it any more is to slightly tilt the keyboard up at the back, which will leave your elbows bent a bit but might help straighten your wrists. Obviously it would be ideal to keep your elbows at about 90° tilt, but if that’s not possible in your current set up it would at least be good to have your wrists in as neutral position as possible.

Alternately, you could stack one of these on your chair: http://www.ergodepot.com/HumanTool_Balance_Seat_p/ht-balance.htm

[Lanx]

you'll get used to the kinesis if you've come from a msergo4k, i did, check my sig if you want to see msergo4k sillyness. But like many have mentioned, your desk needs re-arranging to some extent or chair.

[Input Nirvana]

I was positive after seeing the Kinesis that it would be a good fit for me…I usually can tell these types of things…but it's not always a slam dunk.

When I actually got my first Kinesis I knew it was right for me, but it took a couple weeks to get "used" to the typing portion. The ergonomics was very good though. Once I was using it for a short while I realized that qwerty was plain stupid, so I was about to switch to Dvorak (which I toyed with a long time ago on a "flat board" but didn't stick with it)…Dvorak makes sense to me. But then I came across Colemak and was able to convert in about a month. No turning back.

Your office environment needs to conform to you, not the other way around. The Kinesis may not be right for you, but don't blame it until you've taken care of the more basic things first. The only times I really see people unhappy with the Kinesis has to do with their hands/wrists…not shoulders.

You may be a candidate for my Split Kinesis mounted onto the chair armrests. The most awesome typing in the world. Period.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

They make products you can place on your lap that make it easier to balance a keyboard on your lap. I've never used one, but I've heard of others having luck with them. I personally have a keyboard tray which puts my keyboard at lap level and it's great. If you look on amazon or google for things like "keyboard on lap" or something similar you might find something that could help lower the kinesis. They might make one that easily clips on and off a desk that doesn't require screws.

In general, if the Kinesis seems too tall, the desks available at your office are probably just too tall. The kinesis isn't significantly talker than other keyboards.

[squarefrog]

Thanks for all the replies I appreciate it.

I agree my desk is too high - by my calculations about 0.5-1". My issue with my chair is that if I raise it to be the appropriate height, I then can't tuck it in enough because of the bloody armrests  )

I did look at alternative layouts and settled on Colemak. I liked the look of dvorak but so many keyboard shortcuts are messed up with that. Colemak seems ideal because only a few keys are swapped.

That actually reminds me of another point - I had heard about the hate for the top row of keys, but I didn't think it'd affect me until I opened up Vim (and Xcode XVim plugin). Instantly I realised I didn't  like it!

I do on the other hand LOVE the thumb buttons. They are inspired. It takes a bit of getting used to not trying to hit space with my left hand, but all of the controls are available easily, although I'm not a big fan of the modifiers (ctrl, cmd, alt) being on the top row. Generally I get around that by using two hands for single handed shortcut, but of course Photoshop puts a massive spanner in the works with its awkward, and now ingrained, shortcuts.

[davkol]

I've been using it for about two months and I'm going to quit soon. For me, there are two deal breakers:

• For me, it's difficult not to rest my palms on the front part of the keyboard (I guess you're even supposed to do it), although it's painful as well.
• AltGr is hard to access, if you need it all the time; remapping/macro capabilities are great only for very simple stuff, i.e. not making your own layout.

[squarefrog]

I've been using it for about two months and I'm going to quit soon. For me, there are two deal breakers:

• For me, it's difficult not to rest my palms on the front part of the keyboard (I guess you're even supposed to do it), although it's painful as well.
• AltGr is hard to access, if you need it all the time; remapping/macro capabilities are great only for very simple stuff, i.e. not making your own layout.

I think thats another thing that stumped me - I thought there would be more in the way of "layers". For example I started a qwerty/colemak/modifier layout for the Ergodox, and quite liked the idea of replacing cursor keys with "shift-layer"+hjkl.

I just need one or two or 10 more keys on the advantage

[Lanx]

i have a xkey 16 key bar on my monitor and a nostromo game pad, (which i only use it for macro functions, and it's cherry modded) on the left side, yea kinesis, buttons it lacks much.

[Input Nirvana]

I've been using it for about two months and I'm going to quit soon. For me, there are two deal breakers:

• For me, it's difficult not to rest my palms on the front part of the keyboard (I guess you're even supposed to do it), although it's painful as well.
• AltGr is hard to access, if you need it all the time; remapping/macro capabilities are great only for very simple stuff, i.e. not making your own layout.

I think thats another thing that stumped me - I thought there would be more in the way of "layers". For example I started a qwerty/colemak/modifier layout for the Ergodox, and quite liked the idea of replacing cursor keys with "shift-layer"+hjkl.

I just need one or two or 10 more keys on the advantage

 For fun, you can add up to 6 keys to the Kinesis, there's that much room in the matrix. Several of us have done it, very easy, almost no skill is needed. I don't have pics restored in my sig yes, but Sordna has a link in his sig of the super-easy-mod.

[squarefrog]

For fun, you can add up to 6 keys to the Kinesis, there's that much room in the matrix. Several of us have done it, very easy, almost no skill is needed. I don't have pics restored in my sig yes, but Sordna has a link in his sig of the super-easy-mod.

Oh yes! I had seen the mods. I particularly love the arcade switch palm button! But I can't do the mods while I'm still in the returns window, natch..

[Stone]

I agree my desk is too high - by my calculations about 0.5-1". My issue with my chair is that if I raise it to be the appropriate height, I then can't tuck it in enough because of the bloody armrests  )

Ergo-pedantry inbound: the armrests aren'r supposed to go under the desk, they're to rest your arms on when you're not tucked under the desk. When you're typo g your arms shouldn't be on the armrests at all, you'll just compress your cubital tunnel. Either remove them or fold them down and you'll be able to get your desk/chair heights in the right place I normally start by setting the chair height correctly and then look at desk / keyboard height before adjusting the monitor height.

Personally I hated the Kinesis Advantage - too much lunar deviation, too thick / deep for my (admittedly small) hands, the horrible dead-flesh function keys and I didn't like the mapping of the thumb keys. Inferior to the Datahand in every way...maybe I would have liked it more with different switches? I thought reds sucked in this application, unfortunately it's something you can only find out by experience!

Stone

[davkol]

Unfortunately, some chairs have non-removable non-adjustable arm rests, and if you recline in them, the desk is suddenly too far.

[squarefrog]

Ergo-pedantry inbound: the armrests aren'r supposed to go under the desk, they're to rest your arms on when you're not tucked under the desk. When you're typo g your arms shouldn't be on the armrests at all, you'll just compress your cubital tunnel. Either remove them or fold them down and you'll be able to get your desk/chair heights in the right place I normally start by setting the chair height correctly and then look at desk / keyboard height before adjusting the monitor height.

Personally I hated the Kinesis Advantage - too much lunar deviation, too thick / deep for my (admittedly small) hands, the horrible dead-flesh function keys and I didn't like the mapping of the thumb keys. Inferior to the Datahand in every way...maybe I would have liked it more with different switches? I thought reds sucked in this application, unfortunately it's something you can only find out by experience!

Stone

I can appreciate that, but I like to tuck myself under the desk so my elbows are right next to my side. The desk bugs me really - the top slides out so all the networking and power is accessible, but this also means I have no control over raising or lowering the desk.

I particularly like the term "lunar deviation" although have have no idea what that means 

I did get cherry brown switches in mine, and I really do like the switches. They seem like a great compromise between blues and reds. I'm a big fan of the lighter switches although I don't really have anything else to compare it to.

Unfortunately, some chairs have non-removable non-adjustable arm rests, and if you recline in them, the desk is suddenly too far.

Yes exactly - my chair has adjustable arm rests but they don't come off completely which is a shame.

[SonOfSonOfSpock]

I particularly like the term "lunar deviation" although have have no idea what that means 

I tried the Kinesis Advantage. I could only use it during a full moon. Any deviation from that practice and it made my wrists hurt.

[squarefrog]

Ah yeah I can understand that. I imagine the claws help 

[hashbaz]

I got used to the Kinesis very quickly and liked it a lot.  I did remap a couple of the keys (tilde was one, if memory serves).  Resting your palms on the front part is one of its best features.  The scoop-shaped key wells are intended to promote good hand/wrist posture, allowing you to plant your palms without straining to reach for (most) keys.

Ironically, my time with my Kinesis ended shortly after I found this forum.  All the different switch types, custom boards, and keysets lured me away back to the land of rectangle keyboards.

[squarefrog]

Ironically, my time with my Kinesis ended shortly after I found this forum.  All the different switch types, custom boards, and keysets lured me away back to the land of rectangle keyboards.

Haha I know what you mean. Seeing some of the GB key sets on the 60% boards made me really want a straight keyboard. But I just can't do it. I can last an hour or so then I can't handle it anymore!

[Input Nirvana]

For fun, you can add up to 6 keys to the Kinesis, there's that much room in the matrix. Several of us have done it, very easy, almost no skill is needed. I don't have pics restored in my sig yes, but Sordna has a link in his sig of the super-easy-mod.

Oh yes! I had seen the mods. I particularly love the arcade switch palm button! But I can't do the mods while I'm still in the returns window, natch..

So now you need to consider if a couple mods would make the board work for you better than something else….make the decision a bit tougher. Of course even if you do the mods and it didn't, you'd be able to sell it here on the forum eventually.

I got used to the Kinesis very quickly and liked it a lot.  I did remap a couple of the keys (tilde was one, if memory serves).  Resting your palms on the front part is one of its best features.  The scoop-shaped key wells are intended to promote good hand/wrist posture, allowing you to plant your palms without straining to reach for (most) keys.

Ironically, my time with my Kinesis ended shortly after I found this forum.  All the different switch types, custom boards, and keysets lured me away back to the land of rectangle keyboards.

Funny, I never pegged ya as a flat boarder.

Huh

[hoggy]

I've been using it for about two months and I'm going to quit soon. For me, there are two deal breakers:

• For me, it's difficult not to rest my palms on the front part of the keyboard (I guess you're even supposed to do it), although it's painful as well.
• AltGr is hard to access, if you need it all the time; remapping/macro capabilities are great only for very simple stuff, i.e. not making your own layout.

Would (lightly) gluing on some velcro help to get you out of the habit?  I remember seeing a patent once where the wrist rest disables the keyboard if there's any weight on it...

[davkol]

The problem is the keyboard design itself. I guess you're supposed to rest your palms there. Accessories even include soft pads for this purpose (and replacements are ridiculously overpriced, but that's a different story).

I opted a compact case for my ErgoDox for a reason.

But that's a trivial bug compared to the AltGr placement.

[squarefrog]

So now you need to consider if a couple mods would make the board work for you better than something else….make the decision a bit tougher. Of course even if you do the mods and it didn't, you'd be able to sell it here on the forum eventually.

That is a good point. I suppose I'd be nervous about the mods. Well not nervous doing them, they look pretty trivial (and fun!) to do, but more nervous about getting my money back if it doesn't work out for me. I think i'll carry on this week and come to a decision at the end of this week.

I do appreciate all the opinions, even if they are polarising!

[davkol]

BTW I've just noticed you're in the UK. Then the czarek's European ErgoDox GB might be worth it—no need to wait for Massdrop.

[squarefrog]

BTW I've just noticed you're in the UK. Then the czarek's European ErgoDox GB might be worth it—no need to wait for Massdrop.

Thanks - yeah I'm actually just waiting for him to return from a business trip to place my order! My initial plan was to get both at the same time, see which I prefer then sell the loser.

But I know the geek inside me won't let the Ergodox go - too many options for (expensive) modification.  )

[natas206]

The problem is the keyboard design itself. I guess you're supposed to rest your palms there. Accessories even include soft pads for this purpose (and replacements are ridiculously overpriced, but that's a different story).

I opted a compact case for my ErgoDox for a reason.

But that's a trivial bug compared to the AltGr placement.

I don't understand what the problem is with the AltGr placement? In PC mode, the top four thumb keys, from left to right are: Ctrl | Alt | AltGr | Ctrl. Of course, from there the keyboard is fully programmable and you can remap the AltGr key anywhere you'd like.

[davkol]

The problem is the keyboard design itself. I guess you're supposed to rest your palms there. Accessories even include soft pads for this purpose (and replacements are ridiculously overpriced, but that's a different story).

I opted a compact case for my ErgoDox for a reason.

But that's a trivial bug compared to the AltGr placement.

I don't understand what the problem is with the AltGr placement? In PC mode, the top four thumb keys, from left to right are: Ctrl | Alt | AltGr | Ctrl. Of course, from there the keyboard is fully programmable and you can remap the AltGr key anywhere you'd like.

I use a Czech/International layout, because I need to input ~10 characters with diacritic marks *very* frequently and I do lots of coding (and general work in CLI) as well, which requires special characters normally found on the number row. Obviously, there aren't enough keys to fit all these symbols. That's why extra layers are necessary. That would be okay, if modifiers were easy to reach—and here comes my issue with Kinesis Advantage (I believe I've mentioned it elsewhere too, with a picture of my symmetric ErgoDox layout).

When typing in Czech on International layout (or if I were coding on Czech layout), AltGr gets probably as much use as Shift, maybe even more. Obviously, it's much better to press the modifier with the opposite hand, not the one that presses the key—just like in case of Shift.  The problem is AltGr placement. Gummy-bears are too far. Win/Mod4/AltGr (in the right thumb cluster) is too far. I tried to remap Caps Lock to AltGr, but my pinkie started to hurt almost immediately, some combos felt awkward (Caps Lock + A) and some combos (Caps Lock + H) didn't register half of the time... if I were to blame anything, it would be angle of the Caps Lock key. I remapped the bottom row (where arrows are on the kinesis) to modifiers on my ergodox, but I can't reach those keys with my thumbs on the kinesis.

Possible solution? Thumb-friendly bottom row, palm buttons, dual-role modifier, or modifiers between the thumb clusters and respective keywells.

[incrediblemath]

I just wondered what your initial impressions of the Kinesis Advantage were? [...] I've got about 25 days left to return it so I'm trying to decide what to do.

It took me a week or two to get used to it, though I had already learned an alternate layout by the time I started using the Kinesis, so the adjustment was merely limited to the physical layout.

Was I just too impatient or is it just not a good fit for me? I program for a living in Objective-C so [ ] placement is pretty important.

I write Objective-C as well, and especially with the Dvorak layout, the default bracket placements were not ergonomic at all. If you're interested in utilizing a foot switch, the upside of the Advantage is you can use it to temporarily invoke a second key layout. The layout isn't limited to the 'keypad' buttons on the keycaps, so you can arrange the second layout however you like. I built my own footswitch and mapped [ and ] to the home row of the second layout, along with ; and other relevant symbols. I've attached an image of my layout below (blue keys correspond to those on the keyboard). There's also a thread in the archives from when I was building my switch.

[squarefrog]

I write Objective-C as well, and especially with the Dvorak layout, the default bracket placements were not ergonomic at all. If you're interested in utilizing a foot switch, the upside of the Advantage is you can use it to temporarily invoke a second key layout. The layout isn't limited to the 'keypad' buttons on the keycaps, so you can arrange the second layout however you like. I built my own footswitch and mapped [ and ] to the home row of the second layout, along with ; and other relevant symbols. I've attached an image of my layout below (blue keys correspond to those on the keyboard). There's also a thread in the archives from when I was building my switch.

Nice to hear from another NSHacker

I really like the idea of remapping those keys. It wasn't made terribly clear that you could customise the layers. I think we could benefit from macros too. I use snippets a lot because I find the strokes needed to type @"" really awkward, even though I subscribe to the modifier opposite hand idea.

If you don't use dvorak do you use anything else? I'm toying with colemak.

[incrediblemath]

I really like the idea of remapping those keys. It wasn't made terribly clear that you could customise the layers.

I didn't realize the whole second layout was customizable either until someone mentioned it here. You can remap the primary layout as well (only major change I have is mapping Tab to Home on the left thumb cluster). Disabling keys is also possible if you want to enforce better ergonomics (e.g. I mapped Shift to my foot switch, so I disabled the keyboard Shift keys to help me unlearn the habit).

I think we could benefit from macros too. I use snippets a lot because I find the strokes needed to type @"" really awkward, even though I subscribe to the modifier opposite hand idea.

So far I've avoided programming macros into the keyboard itself, due to the user manual warning that fast typists could experience dropped inputs with macros enabled. I have no idea if my typing is actually fast enough to run into such problems, but it was enough to make me use software like TextExpander for my macro/snippet functionality.

I've found the footswitch can help with symbol-intensive syntax like @"". For example, in my setup, I can type that without holding down any modifiers on the keyboard itself... my feet hold down the Shift and Keypad buttons on the footswitch. Some may argue, correctly so, that this can be more awkward, but for my purposes it's more ergonomic because it keeps me from having to reach and hold down a modifier with my pinky.

If you don't use dvorak do you use anything else? I'm toying with colemak.

Ah, I wasn't clear in my previous post: I do use Dvorak. It was just the default bracket placement on the Kinesis that led me to remap the programming-related keys to the secondary layout.

While I've been a happy Dvorak user since 2005, I've looked at Colemak in recent years and based on a quick analysis of a corpus of Objective-C code and prose, it looks like Colemak would actually be a little more ergonomic for my needs than Dvorak (i.e. stronger fingers get used more often). The marginal benefit isn't high enough to make me switch, though. I changed from qwerty during a school break, and I doubt I'd find such a block of time nowadays to re-learn something cold turkey like that again.

[jakkdl]

I really like the idea of remapping those keys. It wasn't made terribly clear that you could customise the layers.

I didn't realize the whole second layout was customizable either until someone mentioned it here. You can remap the primary layout as well (only major change I have is mapping Tab to Home on the left thumb cluster). Disabling keys is also possible if you want to enforce better ergonomics (e.g. I mapped Shift to my foot switch, so I disabled the keyboard Shift keys to help me unlearn the habit).

I think we could benefit from macros too. I use snippets a lot because I find the strokes needed to type @"" really awkward, even though I subscribe to the modifier opposite hand idea.

So far I've avoided programming macros into the keyboard itself, due to the user manual warning that fast typists could experience dropped inputs with macros enabled. I have no idea if my typing is actually fast enough to run into such problems, but it was enough to make me use software like TextExpander for my macro/snippet functionality.

I've found the footswitch can help with symbol-intensive syntax like @"". For example, in my setup, I can type that without holding down any modifiers on the keyboard itself... my feet hold down the Shift and Keypad buttons on the footswitch. Some may argue, correctly so, that this can be more awkward, but for my purposes it's more ergonomic because it keeps me from having to reach and hold down a modifier with my pinky.

If you don't use dvorak do you use anything else? I'm toying with colemak.

Ah, I wasn't clear in my previous post: I do use Dvorak. It was just the default bracket placement on the Kinesis that led me to remap the programming-related keys to the secondary layout.

While I've been a happy Dvorak user since 2005, I've looked at Colemak in recent years and based on a quick analysis of a corpus of Objective-C code and prose, it looks like Colemak would actually be a little more ergonomic for my needs than Dvorak (i.e. stronger fingers get used more often). The marginal benefit isn't high enough to make me switch, though. I changed from qwerty during a school break, and I doubt I'd find such a block of time nowadays to re-learn something cold turkey like that again.

If you're only having issues with a few keys (especially symbols), it should be much easier to just modify a few keys on the layout. Check out programmers dvorak for one way to do it: http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

[squarefrog]

So far I've avoided programming macros into the keyboard itself, due to the user manual warning that fast typists could experience dropped inputs with macros enabled. I have no idea if my typing is actually fast enough to run into such problems, but it was enough to make me use software like TextExpander for my macro/snippet functionality.

I've always considered myself a reasonably fast typist. Then I did a test and scored 57 WPM with about 5 mistakes. I don't really need speed for work, I'd rather just be comfortable. It's a marathon not a sprint  )

I've found the footswitch can help with symbol-intensive syntax like @"". For example, in my setup, I can type that without holding down any modifiers on the keyboard itself... my feet hold down the Shift and Keypad buttons on the footswitch. Some may argue, correctly so, that this can be more awkward, but for my purposes it's more ergonomic because it keeps me from having to reach and hold down a modifier with my pinky.

That's a really good idea. I like it.

Ah, I wasn't clear in my previous post: I do use Dvorak. It was just the default bracket placement on the Kinesis that led me to remap the programming-related keys to the secondary layout.

While I've been a happy Dvorak user since 2005, I've looked at Colemak in recent years and based on a quick analysis of a corpus of Objective-C code and prose, it looks like Colemak would actually be a little more ergonomic for my needs than Dvorak (i.e. stronger fingers get used more often). The marginal benefit isn't high enough to make me switch, though. I changed from qwerty during a school break, and I doubt I'd find such a block of time nowadays to re-learn something cold turkey like that again.

Oh I see! Ok fair enough. The reason I lean towards Colemak is mainly because only a few keys change position. My most common, and ingrained, shortcut keys are still where I expect them so that helps. The disadvantage to switching for me would be the Vim muscle memory. Although I could always rebind things.

[squarefrog]

If you're only having issues with a few keys (especially symbols), it should be much easier to just modify a few keys on the layout. Check out programmers dvorak for one way to do it: http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

The symbols in that layout are in good places, but I just don't understand the number layout.

[davkol]

If you're only having issues with a few keys (especially symbols), it should be much easier to just modify a few keys on the layout. Check out programmers dvorak for one way to do it: http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

The symbols in that layout are in good places, but I just don't understand the number layout.

The most used numbers are in the middle, thus operated by the strongest fingers.

[incrediblemath]

If you're only having issues with a few keys (especially symbols), it should be much easier to just modify a few keys on the layout. Check out programmers dvorak for one way to do it: http://www.kaufmann.no/roland/dvorak/

That layout does look pretty good from a programming perspective, though now that I have a footswitch, I can get all my most-used symbols and numbers on the home row. Between the two keymap layers, I have everything arranged so that I don't have to use any of the outer 1.5x-wide keys or the number row.

I've always considered myself a reasonably fast typist. Then I did a test and scored 57 WPM with about 5 mistakes. I don't really need speed for work, I'd rather just be comfortable. It's a marathon not a sprint  )

I agree... switching was always about ergonomics for me. I just got increased typing speed as a side benefit because I never learned qwerty properly

As for on-board macros, I checked the manual and here's what it says:

[...] for very fast typists the 36 macro mode may exhibit occasional missed keystrokes. The 48 macro mode will work for steady typists with typing speeds up to 50-60 wpm. If you want to use the 36 or 48 macro settings, it is advisable to program one simple macro after switching and try typing for a period of time to before programming extensive macros or remapping.

So it looks like the Advantage's macro mode will probably work for you. I still prefer a software-based approach like TextExpander, just a lot easier to configure and manage for me at least.

I've found the footswitch can help with symbol-intensive syntax like @"". For example, in my setup, I can type that without holding down any modifiers on the keyboard itself... my feet hold down the Shift and Keypad buttons on the footswitch. Some may argue, correctly so, that this can be more awkward, but for my purposes it's more ergonomic because it keeps me from having to reach and hold down a modifier with my pinky.

That's a really good idea. I like it.

The footswitch has definitely made a sizable impact on my typing comfort. Kinesis sells their own but they're expensive, so I decided to make my own, which has continued to work for the past year.

Of course, if you don't use a desktop or otherwise work exclusively at your desk, a footswitch isn't the most practical item. One alternative is to use KeyRemap4MacBook to achieve similar results in software (e.g. holding down both command keys to invoke an alternate keymap).

Oh I see! Ok fair enough. The reason I lean towards Colemak is mainly because only a few keys change position. My most common, and ingrained, shortcut keys are still where I expect them so that helps. The disadvantage to switching for me would be the Vim muscle memory. Although I could always rebind things.

That makes sense. If I were to do it over again I'd probably use Colemak myself. Keyboard shortcuts were by far the toughest part of switching for me so if you already well-versed in Vim (and the standard Cocoa keyboard shortcuts), it's probably worth changing as little as possible. I actually used OS X's hybrid layout (Dvorak that switches to Qwerty when the command key is held down) to preserve muscle memory, but it was more trouble than it was worth (especially with the footswitch introducing yet another layer to keep in mind), so I eventually switched to Dvorak for everything.

[rsantos97]

I have had my Kinesis for almost a year now, and am getting ready to part with it.  Although I really liked the keyboard a bunch there has always been three negatives with it for me.
1) The keyboard is too damn tall, making very uncomfortable to use when you don't have access to an articulating keyboard tray.
2) Due to the angle of some of the keys the switches feel rough, even reds.
3) The key wells are a tad too deep.

But even with those three negatives I still greatly enjoyed my Kinesis.  I am parting with it because I recently got a job as a .Net developer and the keyboard tray I installed on the desk was a cheap non-articulating tray which is still too high to type comfortably on the Kinesis and also because I can not fit my slimblade on it with the Kinesis.

The ergodox was also unusable for me because I have small hands and some of the keys are just too far apart. 

So I am moving on to a TKL RF which will soon be converted to 30g hopefully.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I also tried the MS Sculpt for about a month but the layout was way too spread out, almost as bad if not worse than the ergodox.

P.S. The reason I got a cheap keyboard tray at work is because that's what was ordered for me.  I actually had to ask them to get me one.  I spent a couple of weeks with my chair as high as it could go.  At home I have a nice Humanscale tray which is great.

[Gerk]

I gave them a good try but I just couldn't get comfortable with them at all.  The keywells just didn't work well with the way my hands are built, it was incredibly uncomfortable to try and use my fingers like they were required to be used in those keywells.  I honestly think I would prefer keywells that are the complete opposite of the Kinesis ... in that they curve outwards instead of inwards.  Maybe I'm one of the odd ones in that regard -- when I mention that most people think I'm crazy!  At one point I bought an older model from Input Nirvana, but after a few months I ended up selling it to someone in new zealand.

I'm still using (and loving) my pair of Goldtouch v2's.

[vatin]

Surely it is awkward at first. But after two weeks I'm already quite proficient. Added palm key mod along the line, to overcome the crap rubber keys, and have been happily using it for nearly two years and don't want to type on anything else. That is until something better came along. I find it to be very efficient to work with.

[squarefrog]

Surely it is awkward at first. But after two weeks I'm already quite proficient. Added palm key mod along the line, to overcome the crap rubber keys, and have been happily using it for nearly two years and don't want to type on anything else. That is until something better came along. I find it to be very efficient to work with.

Thanks for your feedback. I'm intrigued though - what was the better thing that came along?

[EvillePanda]

I type with my keyboard in my lap.  I've considered getting a couple of these:  http://www.thehumansolution.com/mobo-chair-arm-mounted-keyboard-tray-system.html


Inconvenient when you need to get up, but really, there are worse compromises to make.

[Input Nirvana]

RE: Gerks comments on how the Kinesis Advantage didn't work for him:

I've always been uncomfortable typing. Always. When I saw a Kinesis Contoured keyboard, I snapped my head and looked closely…I could tell instantly it addressed several issues for my comfort level…separating hands, tenting (should be tented even a little more for me), and thumb keys. The Kinesis Contoured line addressed 85%+ of my typing woes. I find it fascinating that it has the OPPOSITE effect for Gerk! This really clearly illustrates the subtle differences in our physiology and 'comfort' aspects and there's no one-size-fits-all.

My greatest empathy if for those with RSI related issues, and that they can be greatly relieved with often minor alterations/actions. Keyboard changes/modifications are relatively easy/cheap for better health. That's why I cut a couple Kinesis keyboards in half…to make a "perfect" keyboard for me, and to see what else could be done to further the ergo aspect of something that is inherently 'un-ergo'.

I didn't care for my Datahand, but I never had the time/set up/strong need to use it. Also, I really didn't care for the finger side-to-side movements. That alone turned me off most of all.