Guidance and suggestions for a noob

[spookymikal]

First of all, I want to thank everyone for being so helpful. The resources you guys have put together are fantastic, and the archives have really helped me distill the overwhelming amount of information out there into digestible chunks.

I'm looking into getting The KUL ES-87, and I really wanna recap it. I currently have a Steelseries v6g2 which has a unique space bar and enter key that can't easily be replaced, so I wanted to triple check that the KUL didn't have any quirks like that.

If anyone has a g6v2 I've got a few questions about it: First, does anyone know what the key profile family is? I like the feel of the keyboard and I wanted to try and match that when i cap it. Also, what is the printing method they used on the keys? They're white print on black keys with a slight texture to them, so I assume laser printed, but have read people reporting screen printed keys on that board as well. I feel like the letters collect a lot of grime and would like to avoid that if at all possible.

I could also use some guidance when it comes to the caps themselves. I'm pretty sure that what I want doesn't exist: A set of dark gray PBT keycaps printed with dye sublimation in a nice modern font (Gill Sans or something like it).

I know I want to replace every single key on the keyboard, and I know that I want to use PBT caps. I'm not sold on blank caps, and I *HATE* most of the fonts and logos on the available PBT bundles. In fact, the only keyboard font I've seen that I looked at and thought "that looks really nice" is the Bumblebee set, but I don't like that color palette at all and i'm not a huge fan of the modifier icons. It looks like i'm going to end up getting these blanks and just dealing with the month of searching for function keys until I adjust. So, if I wanted to order the DSA PBT blanks from pimpmykeyboard, which sets would I need to ensure full coverage of my entire keyboard? Will standard base + standard modifiers include the appropriate space bar?

Thanks!

[esoomenona]

The KUL ES-87 appears fairly normal, capwise. The only thing I couldn't guarantee without personally touching it or seeing pictures of this, which I haven't, is the stem spacing on the spacebar. I'd wager it's common, but I'm certain someone here has purchased one and can help you better there.

For the 6GV2, the caps are what we call OEM profile. They're a fairly tall set of caps. Most caps you'll find around here will be shorter in height, such as SP's DCS profile or Cherry/GMK's Cherry profile. It's possible that the caps that come on the KUL will feel similar. Perhaps try them out before jumping to another set that you might not need. They will most likely be the same OEM profile, so if that's what you're looking for, you're covered there. If it's the texture, well you'll just have to touch them yourself to see that. I would assume they're pad printed, possibly with a coating over them to allow for some extended use before wear. I know what you mean about the grime. I had a Daskeyboard as my first keyboard, and I noticed the same. Doubleshot or dye-subbed caps would be a better fit for you here.

As far as PBT goes, there are a couple options. If you're looking for dark grey PBT caps with dye sub, look into the sets that IvanIvanovich ran not too long ago. They seem like they'd be the perfect fit. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50935.0 They will be Cherry profile, so shorter than you're used to. Also, I believe the GB is closed, so you'll have to peruse the classifieds, at least until you meet the requirements to post a WTB thread there. These caps will feel different in texture than what your current caps do.

DSA profile caps are a completely different monster. The caps you're used to are considered sculpted, meaning each row has a different height, and this lends to that sort of stair step effect on the keyboard. DSA caps are all one height, so a keyboard would appear flat with them. But yes, if you wanted to go this route, standard base and standard modifier set would suffice.

[Puddsy]

I'm a big proponent of the ES-87. It's probably the best keyboard you can buy before getting a Kustom.

All the stem/stab spacings are normal, but it doesn't fit in Filco cases, which is really the only downside to it.

[CPTBadAss]

1) I'm looking into getting The KUL ES-87, and I really wanna recap it. I currently have a Steelseries v6g2 which has a unique space bar and enter key that can't easily be replaced, so I wanted to triple check that the KUL didn't have any quirks like that.

g6v2
2) First, does anyone know what the key profile family is?
3) Also, what is the printing method they used on the keys?

4) I could also use some guidance when it comes to the caps themselves. I'm pretty sure that what I want doesn't exist: A set of dark gray PBT keycaps printed with dye sublimation in a nice modern font (Gill Sans or something like it).

5) In fact, the only keyboard font I've seen that I looked at and thought "that looks really nice" is the Bumblebee set, but I don't like that color palette at all and i'm not a huge fan of the modifier icons. It looks like i'm going to end up getting these blanks and just dealing with the month of searching for function keys until I adjust.

6) If I wanted to order the DSA PBT blanks from pimpmykeyboard, which sets would I need to ensure full coverage of my entire keyboard? Will standard base + standard modifiers include the appropriate space bar?

1) KUL is has the standard ANSI 1.25x layout that you'll see in most keycap sets or GBs.
2) OEM
3) I think the Vortex stuff is OEM profile but OEM is a loose term in my eyes so Vortex may not feel the same as the Steelseries caps.
4) Don't think I've see many special font styles like what you're looking at.
5) SP has Cherry and the SP font (forgot what it is at the moment). That SP font is what you see on Bumblebee. Jacobolus (sp?) is trying to get an interest check going to have Futura font PBT caps.
6) It will be fine, see #1

[qwack]

As far as PBT goes, there are a couple options. If you're looking for dark grey PBT caps with dye sub, look into the sets that IvanIvanovich ran not too long ago. They seem like they'd be the perfect fit. http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=50935.0 They will be Cherry profile, so shorter than you're used to. Also, I believe the GB is closed, so you'll have to peruse the classifieds, at least until you meet the requirements to post a WTB thread there. These caps will feel different in texture than what your current caps do.

A nice alternative for PBT caps would be one of the Leopold sets linked in this thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=59780.0

[Puddsy]

SP font is WYSE

[CPTBadAss]

SP font is WYSE

Yes! Thank you

[spookymikal]

OK so, if I wanted to get PBT caps in an OEM profile where would I start looking? Are the ducky PBT blank sets closer to what I'm looking for?

I was looking at those filco black with front print. I don't like the modifier keys on them, does anyone know if the windows symbol, etc are printed on both sides or could I just face them away from me to have "blank" modifiers. Are they OEM profile?

[Puddsy]

any keyboard you buy will have OEM profile

Ducky's PBT sets are, in fact, OEM profile.

[CPTBadAss]

1) OK so, if I wanted to get PBT caps in an OEM profile where would I start looking?
2) Are the ducky PBT blank sets closer to what I'm looking for?
3) I was looking at those filco black with front print. I don't like the modifier keys on them, does anyone know if the windows symbol, etc are printed on both sides or could I just face them away from me to have "blank" modifiers.
4) Are they OEM profile?

1) Vortex or Ducky like you pointed out.
2) Yes
3) Yes, or you could buy blank OEM 1.25x modifiers from Elitekeyboards.com
4) Yes

[spookymikal]

Man, I just don't get why so many of the highest quality PBT keycaps have such ugly print on them. It doesn't make any sense at all to me. The fonts are literally straight out of the 70's for the most part. There's a lot of inconsistencies with alignment (some keys centered center, some keys top left aligned, some keys top center aligned). The icons are bordering useless. It's like the ONLY people who looked at the product along the way were enginerds and not a single graphic designer was given a chance to recoil with horror and throw himself into the printer before they could possibly let another one of those monstrosities be made.

I'm having a real rough time coming to terms with the fact that there are things like  these being made and yet nobody has put gill sans on a keyboard. Hell, there's a whole website full of GREAT fonts that are literally free for personal and commercial use.

It just really bugs me that there isn't some kind of option on wasdkeyboards.com to do dyesub print on PBT keys. I get it from a business standpoint; It's not like there's a huge market for high quality keycaps. You'd struggle to pay for your printer if all you made were keycaps, but it's just odd to me that there's not a cheap online printing service that lets you mail them your keycaps or dildo or whatever you want to put your name on, dyesub the **** out of it, and send that ***** right back to you. I guess there's that one guy on etsy who does just that, and I sent him a message. Maybe i'll hear back from him and get the keycaps I want. Maybe i'll just have a blank keyboard that pisses off my wife and my friends will roll their eyes at. But i'm NOT putting freakin' helvetica 79' with courier new punctuation on my fancy ass keyboard.

</rant>

[rowdy]

Man, I just don't get why so many of the highest quality PBT keycaps have such ugly print on them. It doesn't make any sense at all to me. The fonts are literally straight out of the 70's for the most part. There's a lot of inconsistencies with alignment (some keys centered center, some keys top left aligned, some keys top center aligned). The icons are bordering useless. It's like the ONLY people who looked at the product along the way were enginerds and not a single graphic designer was given a chance to recoil with horror and throw himself into the printer before they could possibly let another one of those monstrosities be made.

I'm having a real rough time coming to terms with the fact that there are things like  these being made and yet nobody has put gill sans on a keyboard. Hell, there's a whole website full of GREAT fonts that are literally free for personal and commercial use.

It just really bugs me that there isn't some kind of option on wasdkeyboards.com to do dyesub print on PBT keys. I get it from a business standpoint; It's not like there's a huge market for high quality keycaps. You'd struggle to pay for your printer if all you made were keycaps, but it's just odd to me that there's not a cheap online printing service that lets you mail them your keycaps or dildo or whatever you want to put your name on, dyesub the **** out of it, and send that ***** right back to you. I guess there's that one guy on etsy who does just that, and I sent him a message. Maybe i'll hear back from him and get the keycaps I want. Maybe i'll just have a blank keyboard that pisses off my wife and my friends will roll their eyes at. But i'm NOT putting freakin' helvetica 79' with courier new punctuation on my fancy ass keyboard.

</rant>

The first set you linked are Vortex.  They are known for being ... adventurous with their legends, and also somewhat inconsistent across a single keycap set.

The second set is a novelty set created for a purpose.  Not sure what that purpose is, but I seem to recall some significance behind the typeface.  Probably from a particular game or something.

The problem with using custom legends is that for doubleshot you have to pay to have new molds created.  This is rather expensive, so companies tend to stick with the ones they have.

[Novus]

Another option is to get a Leopold 750R (which I highly recommend) and it comes with a nice set of those glorious thick PBT keycaps (side print too).

[spookymikal]

So are those signature plastic's DSA PBT's I posted earlier the only blank black PBT's in stock right now? Mechanicalkeyboards.com is sold out of the ducky's and none of the ebay results are both black and blank right now.

[qwack]

You could try the blank navy Leopold set linked earlier. It's so dark you only realize it's not black when there's something really black just next to it.

[spookymikal]

You could try the blank navy Leopold set linked earlier. It's so dark you only realize it's not black when there's something really black just next to it.

Something really black liiiiiiiiiiike... the black plastic base of the KUL ES-87?

[CPTBadAss]

If you're that into the fonts, perhaps the DIY route would work for you?

[qwack]

You could try the blank navy Leopold set linked earlier. It's so dark you only realize it's not black when there's something really black just next to it.

Something really black liiiiiiiiiiike... the black plastic base of the KUL ES-87?

Perhaps, but it may still be dark enough for you (unless you really want jet black keys, in which case you'd better go with something else).

[spookymikal]

If you're that into the fonts, perhaps the DIY route would work for you?

Yep that's the next route i'm gonna start heading if I can't get it done locally. I emailed some local printers who do dye-sub for things like coffee mugs and nylon bags to see if they'd be able to print on PBT caps for me if I provide them.

I work for a school district and have started asking all the art teachers if they have any experience doing dye-sub printing or know of any other ways to permanently mark PBT plastic without adding texture to it. So far, nothing, but if I learn any cool tricks i'll be sure to make a thread.

I also emailed the decentkeyboards guy on etsy about a custom full set and he quoted me: Print on top and front both: $260 Print on top or front only: $180. So basically it would cost as much as the keyboard + caps just to have them printed the way i want. I can get why it's so expensive - he's gotta do 87 keys individually and that takes time no matter how you slice it.

How uncommon are those blank black ducky sets? It seems like something that would be pretty commonly sought after, and it's odd that they wouldn't be rushing to get them back in stock as soon as they run out. In the 3 weeks I've been researching all this, mechanicalkeyboards.com has been sold out the entire time.

[spookymikal]

Can someone give me the low down on where POM plastic stands in relation to ABS and PBT? I've read that it's sort of a middle ground between the two, that it will wear and lose texture but it will not get shiny like ABS.

Anyone bought these:

http://www.banggood.com/POM-87-Set-Blank-Key-Caps-Black-Keycaps-For-Cherry-MX-Keyboard-p-84081.html

and had any experiences good or bad? I'm not expecting them to be super thick at that price, but do they feel cheap and thin?

edit: nevermind they're sold out lmao. Of course.

[Oobly]

POM is great, my favourite keycap material. It's more flexible than PBT and ABS, but denser. In terms of surface feel, it's slightly slick, almost teflon-ish, but it keeps the surface texture longer than ABS (more hard wearing).

Those Keycool blnk POM caps are very nice for the price. I have a set and like them a lot. They're medium thickness (thicker than stock ABS caps and thin Cherry PBT, but not as thick as "thick" PBT caps) and well made. Pity they're out of stock.

Those Leopold PBT caps sold by widebasket on ebay are good, too. Nice and thick and slightly lower profile than usual OEM.

[jacobolus]

For about $200, you can get signature plastics do a custom one-off dyesub set for you, I believe.

[Oobly]

Just for more info on POM. I believe the Cherry MX switch cases themselves are made from POM, so that can give some more idea of what the material is like, since most people interested in POM keycaps own at least some MX switches.