Author Topic: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews  (Read 152624 times)

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Offline Lpwl

  • Posts: 258
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Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #200 on: Sun, 27 July 2014, 02:17:28 »
I just received both 40A-L red and 40A-R o-rings, and tried all possible combinations on both of my KBC Poker II with cherry mx red and Filco Majestouch with cherry mx blue switches.

Surprisingly blue switches feel amazing with thicker 40A-R blue o-rings, cause all you can hear is that clicky sound without any bottoming out.

For red switches, I am little bit undecided, but currently I am using both blue and red o-rings combined. Most will say it's overkill, but I really like the feeling, because it's so light, I just barely need to touch key and it activates. So far this combination is my favorite.

Like I said before, some thicker O-rings (simple or doubled) is something that everyone should try !

I'm loving my "fat" O-rings with Cherry MX Clear.

Maybe you could send some you have left to swill ? He is trying to "write a comprehensive guide to outline the different o-rings that are available and how they compare against each other".
« Last Edit: Sun, 27 July 2014, 02:19:52 by Lpwl »

Offline Kblavkalash

  • Posts: 52
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #201 on: Sun, 27 July 2014, 02:23:17 »
I just received both 40A-L red and 40A-R o-rings, and tried all possible combinations on both of my KBC Poker II with cherry mx red and Filco Majestouch with cherry mx blue switches.

Surprisingly blue switches feel amazing with thicker 40A-R blue o-rings, cause all you can hear is that clicky sound without any bottoming out.

For red switches, I am little bit undecided, but currently I am using both blue and red o-rings combined. Most will say it's overkill, but I really like the feeling, because it's so light, I just barely need to touch key and it activates. So far this combination is my favorite.

Like I said before, some thicker O-rings (simple or doubled) is something that everyone should try !

I'm loving my "fat" O-rings with Cherry MX Clear.

Maybe you could send some you have left to swill ? He is trying to "write a comprehensive guide to outline the different o-rings that are available and how they compare against each other".

I never tried mx browns, and that's my current goal now, wonder how o-rings will feel with that in comparison to red switches :)

Swill is in Canada, I am in Netherlands, do you think it's worth it sending some rings to other side of the world?

Offline Lpwl

  • Posts: 258
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Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #202 on: Sun, 27 July 2014, 02:28:23 »
I just received both 40A-L red and 40A-R o-rings, and tried all possible combinations on both of my KBC Poker II with cherry mx red and Filco Majestouch with cherry mx blue switches.

Surprisingly blue switches feel amazing with thicker 40A-R blue o-rings, cause all you can hear is that clicky sound without any bottoming out.

For red switches, I am little bit undecided, but currently I am using both blue and red o-rings combined. Most will say it's overkill, but I really like the feeling, because it's so light, I just barely need to touch key and it activates. So far this combination is my favorite.

Like I said before, some thicker O-rings (simple or doubled) is something that everyone should try !

I'm loving my "fat" O-rings with Cherry MX Clear.

Maybe you could send some you have left to swill ? He is trying to "write a comprehensive guide to outline the different o-rings that are available and how they compare against each other".

I never tried mx browns, and that's my current goal now, wonder how o-rings will feel with that in comparison to red switches :)

Swill is in Canada, I am in Netherlands, do you think it's worth it sending some rings to other side of the world?

Totally worth it ! It would help many people.

It cost me around 1€ to send some leftovers to him (in a simple padded envelope) and I guess that swill would be ok to cover shipping.


Offline Kblavkalash

  • Posts: 52
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #203 on: Sun, 27 July 2014, 02:30:45 »
Totally worth it ! It would help many people.

It cost me around 1€ to send some leftovers to him (in a simple padded envelope) and I guess that swill would be ok to cover shipping.

Ok, if he does not have 40A-L already I can send :) Blue ones are all used on my keyboards though :D

Offline swill

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Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #204 on: Sun, 27 July 2014, 09:24:52 »
Totally worth it ! It would help many people.

It cost me around 1€ to send some leftovers to him (in a simple padded envelope) and I guess that swill would be ok to cover shipping.

Ok, if he does not have 40A-L already I can send :) Blue ones are all used on my keyboards though :D

If they are from WASD, I think noisyturtle is sending me some of those. :)

Offline madik

  • Posts: 48
  • Location: Czech Rep.
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #205 on: Sun, 27 July 2014, 12:42:33 »
Guys Iam trying to buy some o-rings from Ebay. There is plenty of options but no-one is offering information about hardness of the material. I contacted 4 sellers and only one was able to give me the information (55 - nah). 
I need to go with ebay since I live in europe and the shipping from US is super expensive in comparison with the Free shipping offers from Asia  :thumb: .
Anyway If anyone have some tip on a good Asia Ebay seller with 40 hardness O-rings please tell. Thanks!

Offline Lpwl

  • Posts: 258
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Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #206 on: Sun, 27 July 2014, 15:17:44 »
Guys Iam trying to buy some o-rings from Ebay. There is plenty of options but no-one is offering information about hardness of the material. I contacted 4 sellers and only one was able to give me the information (55 - nah). 
I need to go with ebay since I live in europe and the shipping from US is super expensive in comparison with the Free shipping offers from Asia  :thumb: .
Anyway If anyone have some tip on a good Asia Ebay seller with 40 hardness O-rings please tell. Thanks!

You won't find it on Ebay imho. If you want this exact hardness, you should check my Interest Check here for 40A O-rings.

Offline cbot

  • Posts: 22
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #207 on: Thu, 31 July 2014, 10:25:29 »
One hell of a review, worth the read! Makes me confident in looking at o-rings

Offline sordna

  • Posts: 2247
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #208 on: Thu, 02 October 2014, 11:00:23 »
I recently discovered WASD o-rings are also sold on Amazon (free Prime shipping too).
Kinesis Contoured Advantage & Advantage2 LF with Cherry MX Red switches / Extra keys mod / O-ring dampening mod / Dvorak layout. ErgoDox with buzzer and LED mod.
Also: Kinesis Advantage Classic, Kinesis Advantage2, Data911 TG3, Fingerworks Touchstream LP, IBM SSK (Buckling spring), Goldtouch GTU-0077 keyboard

Offline telegraphist

  • Posts: 54
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #209 on: Mon, 13 October 2014, 08:12:17 »
I would argue that the goal of a key-stroke is actuation and time a key takes to travel beyond this point is basically a wasted time. The O-rings, which are more effectively reducing the unneeded excessive key travel are the "thick" O-rings, not the thin ones. Additional benefit those blue "thick" O-rings provide is better cushioning for those of us, who tend to bottom out hard.
« Last Edit: Sat, 25 October 2014, 12:05:48 by telegraphist »

Offline davkol

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Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #210 on: Mon, 13 October 2014, 09:03:54 »
I would argue that the goal of a key-stroke is an actuation and time a key takes to travel beyond this point is a wasted time. The O-rings which are effectively reducing the unneeded excessive key travel are "thick" O-rings, not the thin ones. Additional benefit of those blue "thick" O-rings is better cushioning for those of us, who tend to bottom out hard.
You gotta love dem rubberdomes.

Offline Wonko73

  • Posts: 32
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #211 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 04:20:43 »
Hi,

I tried out three different kinds of o-rings: the kbc red ones, the blue ones and the black ones.... all tested on my Filco Minila Air with Cherry MX blues.

The result is very clear for me:

- Red ones are simply great: The sound becomes more solid and they feel really good
- Black ones are very decent, but I think you loose a little bit of feedback from your keys. I like the red ones better.
- Blue ones are terrible for me: They kill the feeling of my keys completely. Keys feel a kind of defect and you don't get any feedback. I would say, keys even feel dead.

Well  - that's only my opinion. I felt the red ones to be the right o-rings for me. The black ones may be fine, too, but the red ones feel a lot better and I can type even faster because of the excellent feedback.
Well... and the blue ones ... anybody needs them? :D
« Last Edit: Sat, 18 October 2014, 04:22:51 by Wonko73 »
Filco TKL MX Blue | Filco TKP brown | HHKB2 Type S | Realforce 23U

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
  • Location: San Francisco, CA
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #212 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 04:45:37 »
I would argue that the goal of a key-stroke is actuation and time a key takes to travel beyond this point is basically a wasted time.
The point of having the stroke continue post-actuation is to allow the typist to reliably actuate the switch at just a little bit more than the force required for actuation; on switches with the actuation at the very bottom of the stroke, especially where there isn’t a steep drop in force (“tactile response”) nearly coincident with the actuation point, it’s quite common for typists to get unreliable actuation unless they use dramatically more force than required. Much if not most of the injury to fingers comes from the impact at the bottom of the stroke, so it’s a great advantage to have a switch with either enough post-actuation travel or a sharp tactile point at actuation, because this trains the typist to trust that the switch will reliably actuate, and as a result it’s possible to use much less force, especially right at the bottom of the stroke.

Quote
Additional benefit of those blue "thick" O-rings is better cushioning for those of us, who tend to bottom out hard.
Bottoming out hard is quite bad for your joints, even with rubber dampers. I recommend trying to train yourself to only use as much force as necessary to actuate the switch. There’s nothing wrong with pushing the key all the way down, but you definitely should not be slamming it into the bottom.

Offline telegraphist

  • Posts: 54
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #213 on: Sat, 18 October 2014, 06:40:37 »
I've tried them all. In my opinion: the blue WASD O-rings are the best of all :thumb:
« Last Edit: Sat, 25 October 2014, 12:00:56 by telegraphist »

Offline Tiramisuu

  • Posts: 329
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #214 on: Sat, 25 October 2014, 10:07:08 »
I just o-ringed and trampolined my poker 2, browns.   Entirely underwhelmed.   The tone when bottoming out is lowered a hair and it bottoms out just a hair sooner but from a typing feel perspective the difference is neutral.    Not really worth the time or effort of purchasing.

Audibly I think I prefer the click to the thump and I have a fairly light touch when typing so it really makes little difference.

Next try will be ergo clears or alps.   I'd like more feedback in the switch and even less noise.  I may have to try Torpre.
Keyboard error F1 to continue.

Poker 2, Gherkin, Lets Split, Planck, Filco

Offline jacobolus

  • Posts: 3661
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Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #215 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 17:42:17 »
Next try will be ergo clears or alps.   I'd like more feedback in the switch and even less noise.  I may have to try Torpre.
Try Matias quiet switches.

Offline Tiramisuu

  • Posts: 329
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #216 on: Mon, 27 October 2014, 20:37:47 »
Being canadian, shipping a bag of matias switches would probably be quick and shipping wouldn't be painful for a change.

Mostly a matter of finding a decent 60% plate to play with.
Keyboard error F1 to continue.

Poker 2, Gherkin, Lets Split, Planck, Filco

Offline SpiderWaffle

  • Posts: 11
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #217 on: Wed, 06 January 2016, 15:39:31 »
Big question to anyone that's installed o-rings before. Everyone that has done this installation just mentions removing keycap, putting on o-ring, putting back on key cap. And most will rave about how it noticeably reduced their bottoming out distance. But here's the problem I find with that:

When I go to put the keycap back on, it takes considerably more force to slide the keycap back on all the way (something like 1-3lbs of force I'd estimate based on when you first removed the keycaps and/or when put them back on without o-rings) than the amount of tension in whatever spring you're using (45-80g most likely) So about 10-20 times more force, we can all agree on that right? The spring force is not able to push the keycap back on all the way. So how does this slide the keycap back on all the way? Answer, as far I can tell it doesn't, it never will!! Why, because the O-ring blocks the KEY CAP from moving all the way to the black plastic stationary part of the switch like it would normally without any obstruction, ie the o-ring. Thus, you are never going to push the keycap on all the way. The best you can do is compress the elastic o-ring slightly, this tiny compression distance is the ONLY reduction in bottoming out travel distance you will get. How, far is that tiny distance? I suggest you try compressing an o-ring. For 50a shore hardness you can MAYBE compress half the thickness if you apply tons of force, like the amount of force that could break the plastic key caps and switches, and for 70a it's much much less, it's not a linear scale.

So unless your key caps just fly on and off like butter with 40g of force, the only way to properly install o-rings is to take apart the entire switch and hold the slider in place while you force the keycap back on. The point of this would be to 1. Reduce the travel distance to bottom out, 2. Secure the key caps on fully (big problem with thicker rings), and 3. lower how high the key caps rest relative to the baseplate/main body of the the keyboard, and in turn your desk/wristpad.

Otherwise, your keycaps are resting up higher, about the thickness of the o-ring minus how far you were able to compress it, and your bottom out distance is only reduced by how much you were able to compress the o-ring.

I'm really surprised I've never seen anyone else share this. Don't believe me, try putting on 2 or 3 of the normal 1.5-1.9mm thick o-rings most people get to pronounce the effect more, you probably won't be able to even get the keycap to stay on properly.

If someone has found otherwise, I'd love to know about it, I've considered freezing my keyboard (without caps on) and warming up the key caps to compress the siders and expand the keycaps slighlty and maybe the 45g springs will be enough then. Otherwise I have to desolder, remove, and take apart every switch then force the keycaps on each slider, then put back to together and resolder every switch, but some of the key caps would block the screws from going back in, so ... Seriously no one else in the world has noticed shared this? (I tried but could not find any such results)
« Last Edit: Wed, 06 January 2016, 18:06:42 by SpiderWaffle »

Offline Connly33

  • Posts: 222
  • Location: Medford OR, US
Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #218 on: Wed, 06 January 2016, 16:10:52 »
I installed o rings onto my board for the first time, cherry MX blue with just thin o rings, not to reduce travel but to soften the landing of the key, with the steel top plate on my board the bottoming out of each switch is pretty hard, causing my hands to go numb with my wrist issues, with o rings the travel is very slightly reduced, but more importantly its much softer on my wrists, my average typing speed went from 39 WPM to 45 in only 30 minutes of getting used to them, ( i know that's still not very good )  But at least for thin o rings when placing the keycaps back on i used a good amount of force and then repeatedly hit the key and i was able to get the keycap all they way onto the stem as i had noticed the issue SpiderWaffle mention. Id be curious if there is a relatively easy way to get keycaps all the way back on with a thicker/harder O ring without taking apart the switch. Or if there is any point in doing so ? if all keys are on the same o rings i dont see much of a point in getting them all the way onto the stems unless it changes the typing feel.

Custom 60% with Cherry MX Clear

Offline Lpwl

  • Posts: 258
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Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #219 on: Thu, 07 January 2016, 05:25:19 »
Big question to anyone that's installed o-rings before. Everyone that has done this installation just mentions removing keycap, putting on o-ring, putting back on key cap. And most will rave about how it noticeably reduced their bottoming out distance. But here's the problem I find with that:

When I go to put the keycap back on, it takes considerably more force to slide the keycap back on all the way (something like 1-3lbs of force I'd estimate based on when you first removed the keycaps and/or when put them back on without o-rings) than the amount of tension in whatever spring you're using (45-80g most likely) So about 10-20 times more force, we can all agree on that right? The spring force is not able to push the keycap back on all the way. So how does this slide the keycap back on all the way? Answer, as far I can tell it doesn't, it never will!! Why, because the O-ring blocks the KEY CAP from moving all the way to the black plastic stationary part of the switch like it would normally without any obstruction, ie the o-ring. Thus, you are never going to push the keycap on all the way. The best you can do is compress the elastic o-ring slightly, this tiny compression distance is the ONLY reduction in bottoming out travel distance you will get. How, far is that tiny distance? I suggest you try compressing an o-ring. For 50a shore hardness you can MAYBE compress half the thickness if you apply tons of force, like the amount of force that could break the plastic key caps and switches, and for 70a it's much much less, it's not a linear scale.

So unless your key caps just fly on and off like butter with 40g of force, the only way to properly install o-rings is to take apart the entire switch and hold the slider in place while you force the keycap back on. The point of this would be to 1. Reduce the travel distance to bottom out, 2. Secure the key caps on fully (big problem with thicker rings), and 3. lower how high the key caps rest relative to the baseplate/main body of the the keyboard, and in turn your desk/wristpad.

Otherwise, your keycaps are resting up higher, about the thickness of the o-ring minus how far you were able to compress it, and your bottom out distance is only reduced by how much you were able to compress the o-ring.

I'm really surprised I've never seen anyone else share this. Don't believe me, try putting on 2 or 3 of the normal 1.5-1.9mm thick o-rings most people get to pronounce the effect more, you probably won't be able to even get the keycap to stay on properly.

If someone has found otherwise, I'd love to know about it, I've considered freezing my keyboard (without caps on) and warming up the key caps to compress the siders and expand the keycaps slighlty and maybe the 45g springs will be enough then. Otherwise I have to desolder, remove, and take apart every switch then force the keycaps on each slider, then put back to together and resolder every switch, but some of the key caps would block the screws from going back in, so ... Seriously no one else in the world has noticed shared this? (I tried but could not find any such results)

Frankly speaking, I have no idea what problem you are having.

A picture says more than a thousand words  ;)

Offline ideus

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Re: O-Ring and Dampener Reviews
« Reply #220 on: Thu, 07 January 2016, 07:54:44 »
I have tried many sizes and hardness O-rings, the famous trampoline mode with O-ring segments and silicon balls and I do not like them so far. I prefer the nice solid sound of the naked switch mechanisms.