Why the Logitech Keyboard K120 is the best I've ever tried, and better than yours.

[keyboardlover]

You're an incredibly active lurker.

[The Solutor]

You'll just be wasting your time and money in this forum. Ignorance is bliss

I think that in 55 post arguing about the OP, there isn't a single person who actually tried that k120 keyboard, so in this way yes ignorance is a bliss.

Thinking that a rubber dome keyboard is surely bad and a mech is surely good, is  more or less, like saying that a gasoline engine is surely better than a diesel one, which is blatantly wrong.

Forums should be made by passionate and curious people, not by talibans.

[herewegomez]

this is hilarious

[redpill]

test

[Wibox]

is this really already 5 pages long?

[keyboardlover]

This is why we need troll polls.

[rodya]

I burnt mine but this is no reflection on the OP's keyboard.

Nice photos.  That is keyboard art right there.

[Daniel Beaver]

I hate Ripster's new avatar and ginormous signature picture. But I also suspect it is some sort of meta-joke. Which, incidentally, is what this thread has become.

[keyboardlover]

I hate Ripster's new avatar and ginormous signature picture. But I also suspect it is some sort of meta-joke. Which, incidentally, is what this forum has become.

 
Fixed that for you.

[redpill]

I hate Ripster's new avatar and ginormous signature picture. But I also suspect it is some sort of meta-joke. Which, incidentally, is what this thread has become.

Not really a meta joke, it's more like...

[woebtz]

I wouldn't mind having a rubber dome sub-forum here.

My parents have a non-ergo HP (?) keyboard that's rather comfortable to type on.

I'm also curious how the new MS Comfort Curve 3000 compares to the 2000.

[redpill]

testing..

confirming that IRC has moved beyond vBulletin

[Wibox]

testing..

confirming that IRC has moved beyond vBulletin

 
Test was sucessful;

15:55 < Geekrss> redpill in 19415 (Why the Logitech Key): testing..  confirming that IRC has moved beyond vBulletin

Cheers :tea:

[redpill]

It's a thing of beauty, thx Wibox

[redpill]

Miami Jai Alai Matinee Game 11 About to Begin, Place your bets!

[noodles256]

smokinwaffle's new name is funny

[woody]

(Logitech)
And the keys last like forever because of the clearcoat.

Guess I wasn't lucky then. Or mine didn't have clearcoat.

[gilgam]

Irony maybe ?

[woody]

Does double irony count?

[The Solutor]

For many users here Irony is just a Swatch model :-)

[woody]

Proper Irony:

[cactux]

Seriously, what kind of reception where you expecting  after a title like "Why the Logitech Keyboard K120 is the best I've ever tried, and better than yours."
How can you say better than yours, if you have not even try half of the mechanical boards  out there?.

[gilgam]

Does double irony count?

So i feel stupid :-D ...

[The Solutor]

Seriously, what kind of reception where you expecting  after a title like "Why the Logitech Keyboard K120 is the best I've ever tried, and better than yours."
How can you say better than yours, if you have not even try half of the mechanical boards  out there?.

 
In newspapers titles are made to catch the eye, and usually aren't reflecting the contents of the article, I think this is what he did, (I must add successfully).

[woody]

So i feel stupid :-D ...

Nah, my French Comrade. It's just friendly fun.
Opening a jar of Moutarde de Dijon in your honor.

[cactux]

In newspapers titles are made to catch the eye, and usually aren't reflecting the contents of the article, I think this is what he did, (I must add successfully).

You are 100 % right.

[TacticalCoder]

Forums should be made by passionate and curious people, not by talibans.

What's next after calling people talibans: implying GeekHack member are nazis?

Common The Solutor, I'm sure you can do it.  The way you do it is so subtle: it starts with a statement pretending that you're smart, intelligent, knowledgeable and open-minded and then it ends up insulting other members (because surely even should you be so smart, intelligent, knowledgeable and open-minded would give you the right to call other talibans no!?)

Maybe you should try to find a forum dedicated to healthy food and then when a new user ask if eating Mc Donalds everyday is healthy and when forum regulars answer him that it's not, you could then jump in with that exact same sentence of yours: "forums should be made by passionate and curious people, not by talibans".

Your "algorithm" seems to work like this:


IF post says typical rubber dome are not good compared to other switches OR post says touch-typing is a good skill to learn
THEN
   write "rubber dome rocks" OR "touch-typing sucks"
   write "you're close-minded, unlike me"
   write "hence you're all a bunch of $RANDOM_INTENTIONALLY_PROVOCATIVE_WORD"
FI


In this case it was the "rubber dome rocks" case and the $RANDOM_INTENTIONALLY_PROVOCATIVE_WORD happened to be "taliban".

So what's next?  Calling GeekHack users nazis?

[TacticalCoder]

Around here though you get called a "troll" for trying to get to the bottom of an issue.

Damn...  How things have changed.  I remember when the Internet trolls basically came to life: on the Usenet newsgroups back in the days.  They were the ones using every single little dirty intellectual mind trick and every logical fallacy they could find to derail threads into heated arguments and end up calling other "nazis" ("talibans" wasn't as common back then)  ; )

One of the trollbook 101 trick was pushing people to the limit, getting insulted, then pointing out that the other person lacked education because he called names.

Oh well, Geek Hack's "Ignore list" is Usenet's "bozo bin" (aka kill file).  Fun times these were.

[The Solutor]

What's next after calling people talibans: implying GeekHack member are nazis?

 
Why not, if the discussion need it ? Linus torvalds called "interface nazis" some members of the gnome team, and was just right.

Common The Solutor, I'm sure you can do it. The way you do it is so subtle: it starts with a statement pretending that you're smart, intelligent, knowledgeable and open-minded and then it ends up insulting other members (because surely even should you be so smart, intelligent, knowledgeable and open-minded would give you the right to call other talibans no!?)

For the record you are the one who insulted and blacklisted me just because i said that I'm not interested in touch-typing.

World is full of fake virgins, don't add yourself to the list.

I was unaware that a good rubber dome keyboard could be dangerous for the health, I was sure that  a good keyboard was just a good keyboard, no matter if mechanical or not, as a good food is just a good food, no matter If Italian or not.

Thanks for the information anyway, I feel so ignorant now :becky:

.Your "algorithm" seems to work like this:

Unlike you I'm aware that the world is analog, I'm well aware that love for A doesn't imply hate for B.

For you a good keyboard is something to talk about only if expensive, elitary, uncommon.

Your problem is not to have a good input device, your problem is impose yourself above the "proletariat", no matter if because you have a keyboard that only the 0.001% of the users have, or because you have a skill shared by just 5%.

You have also to justify yourself for the amount of money spent.

I don't have such problem i learn (and I learned) whatever is on my interest, and I buy whatever I like, if I can. I don't need justifications and I don need approval by other people.

So what's next? Calling GeekHack users nazis?

Again, try to understand that world is analog. Geekack users are not a standardized kind of humans, they have a vast range of skills, preference, likings and so on, and they came from different countries.

So, I'll never referring something to the whole community, I speak with facts when they are available, I politely post my preferences when opinions matters, and I speak with the person or the people who are discussing with me. If they act like a nazi, I call them nazi.

This is never happened and I didn't it. Simple as that.

[redpill]

Why is everyone so touchy lately?

Uhm, lol?

[The Solutor]

I like scissor switches better than rubber domes.  Even the IBM Rubber Domes are kinda wobbly for me.

 
It depends.

Funnily enough the first thing I noticed when I touched my first cherry board after years was the wobbliness of the keys.

[theferenc]

Actually, most rubber dome keyboards are bad for finger health. Pounding the back plate of the keyboard in order to actuate the key results in damage to the joints. Short throw chicklet keys are the worst in this regard, as the force required to collapse the dome is hard to dissipate in the short space allotted.

There's a reason that RSI suffers often migrate to mechanical keyboards on the advice of a doctor.

[hyperlinked]

Thanks, looks like I should only post when I want to know something because apparently, the things a new member has to share are worthless to most of you.

I know you meant this facetiously, but that's actually a very good idea until you know the culture of the community you're walking into. I'm an old school Internet die hard going back to the days of Usenet and there was a general rule back then that people needed to read and observe what everyone else was posting for at least a few weeks before they made their first post. The reason was that newbies typically make the same tired points that have already been discussed ad infinitium on that board and newbies typically ask and re-ask the same questions that people get tired of answering.

So yes... wait until you know more before jumping in or you will seem like a troll whether you intend to be one or not.

[Ollum]

Logitech keyboards are great.....



until u get a mechanical keyboard!

[mmmty]

Yeah, the "better than yours" part is what's pissing people off. The "the best I've ever tried" part doesn't help either. Maybe he should try more. One of my keyboards has got to be better than his Logitech K120. I had a Logitech keyboard and it died (mushy keys) after about a year. If I ever buy another Logitech keyboard, it's going to be a mechanical one.

[hoggy]

SteamingWaffle

I think you've been got out mainly because of an accident of bad timing - just after the "you're all gullible fools" post.  Usually things are a bit more laid back here - quite often there are posts asking for a better keyboard for gaming or coping with RSI, or really fast typing, and so on, and these posts are typically answered with huge patience by the members here.

The review wasn't that bad, but the other reason for your reception is that you've misjudged the audience, by praising elements of the 'board that we see as adequate, and ignored features that interest us, such as keycaps (laser engraved, pad printed, dye sub or doubleshot, abs or pom), adjust-ability (okay, not that many of us are interested in the legs), construction, key rollover... and then commit heresy about proclaiming logitech as the best keyboard manufacturer (they do make some nice remote controls though).

If you're still interested, have a look at the forum and try to find out what keyboard you could get next.  Trust me, we'll help you find something you like.  It might take a few boards, but hey, that's life.

[daerid]

You'll see this when the Pokers start arriving.

The pokers have been arriving. And I do see what you mean. The poker isn't the highest quality keyboard, I'd expect to pay $60 for it. Not $100. But I still love mine.

[The Solutor]

Actually, most rubber dome keyboards are bad for finger health.

Personally I have great doubts that the hard landing of an unmodded cherrys boards could be better than the soft landing of RD.

BTW w/o speaking about a specific rubber dome v.s. a specific mech board, the whole argument of keyboard and health relations is more or less pointless.

[redpill]

The problem I have with most rubber domes is that the peak force required comes very early and then once the dome starts to collapse all resistance vanishes and you wind up bottoming out every time.  And the rubber is thin on them so it doesn't cushion your landing much.  As a result you bottom out every single keystroke (because basically you have to in order to get actuation with any amount of speed).  With plate/PCB mounted cherries, you might bottom out sometimes and get the same harshness, but with a longer stroke and reasonable tactile feedback you can avoid bottoming out at least some of the time and still get actuation.

Topres address this with the unique shape of the rubber cup, which gives better feedback/actuation, softer landing due to thicker-feeling rubber, and better spring back.

[The Solutor]

The problem I have with most rubber domes is that the peak force required comes very early and then once the dome starts to collapse all resistance vanishes and you wind up bottoming out every time.

True for many RD (maybe "most" is a too strong word) while some are almost linear, some are softer than a brown switch and so on, is impossible to generalize when world is full of rubber domes, of any price, of any age from 1984 to today and with a zillion of variations.

Anyway, true or not, many users after decades of RD usage will still use the mechs in the same way especially when they have a RD at office and a mech at home.

[Dali]

Like I said, you should all take apart a Logitech $10 special sometime.  Better plastics and Industrial Engineering design than many a Chinese Clone Keyboard.  Upfront engineering and tooling costs are amortized over jillions of units made.

You'll see this when the Pokers start arriving.

Not sure if counter-trolling. No way a Logitech rubber dome could feel better than a Cherry MX based board. Build quality is debatable though.

[Mr. Perfect]

Nah, he didn't say Cherry. He means other cheapo rubber dome boards. As bad as we may think Logitech boards are, there are some out there that make you really wonder...

On the other hand, our white box PCs at work have actually been coming with these K120s. Please do yourself a favor and try some more boards. Even Logitech's other keyboards are significantly better built then these. The K120 is thin with flexible plastic, has shallow keys somewhere between a standard desktop and a laptop, and has a weedy little USB cable. You can twist it apart easily in your hands. I've been leaving people with their old rubber dome boards because I'm just not impressed with these things.

[The Solutor]

Not sure if counter-trolling. No way a Logitech rubber dome could feel better than a Cherry MX based board.

 
Try a logitech illuminated or a k800 end then tellme if any logitech can't keep up with any cherry mx.

Build quality is debatable though.

Logitech build quality is the quality expected from a big company, not so noble materials but evenness trough the production, and trough the single keys.

Likely just cherry itself can be compared to logitech in that matter from the whole outlook of the cherry board makers.

Also the technical support is unknown to the semi artisanal production of most of the cherry boards maker, Razer included.

[Zet]

@OP:

I would said is not bad for the price/looks, and I'm sad that this is the best you tried, since there is way better things out there. I doubt you have a clear idea of what other keyboards people use here, not even I do, but I'm certain of something, at least I'm sure I own a keyboard I and other GH'ers would consider in other league than yours :x

[keyboardlover]

@OP - what you are saying is actually impossible, because nothing is better than a keyboard with ergo clears.

[audioave10]

I found the Logitech Illuminated keyboard to be good quality if you are a "light touch typist". Sadly...I was not.

[The Solutor]

I found the Logitech Illuminated keyboard to be good quality if you are a "light touch typist". Sadly...I was not.

 
No, light is inside the board, no need to add more...:lol:

Jokes aside, is clearly a different feeling, especially if coming from a model M, but is still a pleasurable board, for people like me who love a definite tactile feedback coupled with relatively soft keys.

I had to mod my board to ergo clears to have something lookalike from a mx board.

[False_Dmitry_II]

@Zet

I still think you need to try some other boards too. A light linear switch for your only one has always seemed odd to me. But then, I would never like any kind of linear board. I have not owned or typed on one, but I have removed the click/tactile leaf from alps and the click arm from space invaders. No way would I want a whole board like that.

But yeah, I've never met a rubber dome I liked (after getting handed my first acer mech board 2-3 years ago). When I bought my first rubber dome that would be mine alone, I tried all the ones in the store. I actually preferred the $5 inland branded board above all the microsoft, logitechs and everything else the store had. I probably need to try one of the keytronics or NMB right touches of the world some time, but till then I very much doubt I would prefer one of those to any of the mech boards in my collection.

[keyb_gr]

While I have been recommending the Logitech Classic Keyboard 200 as a cheapie that feels good, I would never claim it's da BEST evar. The layout isn't quite standard, and I don't think it would last very long under heavy use - they are, after all, built to a price. (Haven't used a K120 yet. Reviews at Amazon have been pretty good so far, but as always take these with a grain of salt.)

Let's recap why people traditionally ended up here. They might have been sick of going through cheap (or worse yet, expensive) "rubble domes" within less than 2 years, or even months, due to either outright failure or mushiness. Some were looking for better feel, others for better durability, and yet others for better ergonomics - or all three. In other words, a quality input device that suits the user's needs (and meets a little more than the absolute minimum requirements if the budget allows).

Some people will never manage to wear out a cheapie (which tend to be more rugged than their fancier gaming cousins anyway), while others definitely benefit from a quality board. (Ripster's son used to tear through Logitech cheapies in a matter of months, but AFAIK he still is on his first Unicomp.) Now quality rubber domes are pretty much a thing of the past, which leaves mechanical and semi-mechanical boards. It is important to know that even those are not infallible, and it still is possible for manufacturers to cheap out in annoying ways.

You will always get FOTM and fashion phenomena. It's a natural byproduct of the whole customization idea. People who only care about this aspect could basically buy anything, but of course they are most likely to go with boards for which tweaking options (fancy keycaps etc.) already exist.

[8_INCH_FLOPPY]

That first post is equivalent me saying that I'm the best basketball player in the world because I just beat my 3 friends at a game of horse.