Author Topic: Hand wiring durability  (Read 3052 times)

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Offline ju6ju8Oo

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Hand wiring durability
« on: Wed, 07 March 2018, 01:33:33 »
I plan to use magnet wire 0.1mm for my first build.

Are there any tips to make it durable?

Should I add glue over the solder joints?

Offline vvp

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 07 March 2018, 02:40:47 »
You do not need to do anything more except soldering provided there is nothing in the case which could move and hit the wires.
I used Ø 0.15 mm wire but I think it was too thick. The thinner the wire the easier it is to burn off the enamel. Also do not use too thin tip (use at lest Ø 2 mm bevel or chisel tip for good heat transfer). If it still does not work well then increase the iron temperature. I typically go up to 350 - 400 °C. Depends on wire thickness and the tip. One cannot use this on PCBs because it would lift pads but no problem to solder wire to switches. It is also too high to use on diodes (you could damage them) but you can use wire without insulation for them. E.g. rows would use bare wire (or just the diode leads), columns would use enameled wire or vice versa.
It is a piece of cake to use magnet wire after a bit of practice.
Good luck.

Edit: Here is an example: https://deskthority.net/post356867.html#p356867
« Last Edit: Wed, 07 March 2018, 02:44:59 by vvp »

Offline ju6ju8Oo

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 07 March 2018, 09:02:34 »
great tips!

what's the max temperature without damaging the diode?

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 07 March 2018, 09:37:18 »
You could glue the switches to the plate to prevent them from being pulled out.
I have seen people tin the switch pins before soldering anything else: I suppose that could help reduce the time each joint is soldered later on.

Offline ju6ju8Oo

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 07 March 2018, 09:41:12 »
You could glue the switches to the plate to prevent them from being pulled out.
I have seen people tin the switch pins before soldering anything else: I suppose that could help reduce the time each joint is soldered later on.
Should I tin both pins?

Offline vvp

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 08 March 2018, 03:27:42 »
Should I tin both pins?
You can tin pins at least from the beginning but with some practice you will find that it is not needed.
Sometimes it makes sense only to add extra flux on the pin. Sometimes nothing extra is needed (the flux in the tin is enough). It all depends how clean the pins/wires are. The more oxidized or dirty they are the more likely you need to add flux or even tin.

If you would solder enameled wire on a part which cannot withstand a lot of heat then you should tin the enameled wire (i.e. burn the enamel on the wire) with high temperature setting and later solder the wire with smaller temperature.

I solder enameled wire on the tip of the thick pin of MX switch without tinning pin or the wire. I just make one loop of the enameled wire around he top of the pin, add some flux, put more solder on the iron and make the connection. Temperature around 350 - 400 °C.

I often tin the switch pin which is connected to the  diode. In this case the iron temperature is low (around 250 °C). There is no need to add additional flux. The flux in the tin is enough.

I never tin pins or the PCB (nor I add flux) when soldering through hole components to a PCB. The flux in the tin is plenty enough. Here it is important to add tin to the pin (not to the iron tip). But I tin wire (which are composed from more thin wires) ends before soldering them to a PCB. There are a lot of videos on youtube how to solder components to a PCB.

One typically needs to add more flux on the pin when using high iron temperature because the flux in the tin on the iron will burn off quickly.

Again, do not use very thin iron tips nor conical tips. Bevel or chisel tip for everything. You need a good heat transfer.

Offline ju6ju8Oo

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 08 March 2018, 09:18:34 »
Also do not use too thin tip (use at lest Ø 2 mm bevel or chisel tip for good heat transfer).

I will be using Hakko FX-600. There're so many tips to choose from. Any idea on a suitable thick tip, and a normal tip?

Offline vvp

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 08 March 2018, 12:43:40 »
Try  only Ø 2 mm bevel or 2 mm chisel tip. I use Ø 2 mm bevel tip for everything keyboard related. Including TQFP/TQFN packages. But excluding small SMD parts which have only 2-4 pins (e.g. 0603 capacitor); hot air is better for those "fleas".

Offline ju6ju8Oo

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 08 March 2018, 20:52:10 »
Try  only Ø 2 mm bevel or 2 mm chisel tip. I use Ø 2 mm bevel tip for everything keyboard related. Including TQFP/TQFN packages. But excluding small SMD parts which have only 2-4 pins (e.g. 0603 capacitor); hot air is better for those "fleas".
https://imgur.com/a/vfrAR

is it something like these 2 solder tips?

Offline vvp

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 09 March 2018, 02:35:34 »
Yes. The first one (chisel) is a bit better at heat transfer. The second one (bevel) is a bit better for drag soldering. If you want to buy only one then bevel is a better option in my opinion.

Offline ju6ju8Oo

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 09 March 2018, 03:28:08 »
Yes. The first one (chisel) is a bit better at heat transfer. The second one (bevel) is a bit better for drag soldering. If you want to buy only one then bevel is a better option in my opinion.
Thank you for your advice! I'll get the bevel one first.

Offline hasu

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 09 March 2018, 04:55:43 »
Yes, get bevel cut tip as vvp said. I found chisel tip was not easy to handle anyhoo and certainly prefer bevel tip far more.
I've used hakko 2BC(φ2 bevel) tip with FX-952 daily for a few years and been very satisfied. I can solder 0603 resisters and capacitors with the tip without serious problem and  I don't need any other tips in most cases. I also have 3BC(φ3 bevel), 16D(1.6mm chisel) and 32D(3.2mm chisel) but I very very rarely use them.  I would prefer 2BC than 2C in terms of thermal capacity but tip selection for FX-600 doesn't have 2BC unfortunately. So you should  take 2C tip.

Offline senso

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 09 March 2018, 05:51:24 »
I have been soldering with a chisel 2-2.5mm tip for years now, from PTH, to TQFP, SOIC's, QFN's, and passives down to 0603, best tip design for me, works in everything.

Just add flux :)

Offline ju6ju8Oo

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 09 March 2018, 06:21:28 »
Yes, get bevel cut tip as vvp said. I found chisel tip was not easy to handle anyhoo and certainly prefer bevel tip far more.
I've used hakko 2BC(φ2 bevel) tip with FX-952 daily for a few years and been very satisfied. I can solder 0603 resisters and capacitors with the tip without serious problem and  I don't need any other tips in most cases. I also have 3BC(φ3 bevel), 16D(1.6mm chisel) and 32D(3.2mm chisel) but I very very rarely use them.  I would prefer 2BC than 2C in terms of thermal capacity but tip selection for FX-600 doesn't have 2BC unfortunately. So you should  take 2C tip.
Great! let me get T18-C2. And I'll need to join amazon.co.jp prime.
Not sure why amazon sells D16 without prime, but C2 requires prime.

Offline phoible

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 18 March 2018, 14:56:26 »
I'm handwiring my first board (a M0110), and have the rows (with diodes) soldered in.

I'm trying to use magnet wire to do the columns, but am having a lot of trouble soldering it. I was assuming that I could just solder the wire to the pin, and the enamel would burn off as I soldered it. However, the solder isn't sticking to the wire, and it doesn't appear that enamel is burning off like I thought it would. I have my soldering iron set to 650C.

I've tried rubbing the soldering iron on the wire to burn off the enamel, but that doesn't seem to be working either...

I'm using 24 AWG Remington wire - I found it on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Remington-Industries-24SNSP-25-Enameled-Diameter/dp/B00I53AKOK/ref=sr_1_5?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1521402909&sr=1-5&keywords=magnet+wire+24+awg

Does anyone have suggestions - maybe the wire is too thick? What AWG would you recommend?

Offline phoible

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 18 March 2018, 15:22:15 »
Ok. I was using 650F and not C. I just upped it to 750F (which is 400C), and it appears to be melting off the enamel now.

Offline vvp

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Re: Hand wiring durability
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 18 March 2018, 17:05:16 »
Also 24 AWG (Ø 0.511 mm) is too thick!

The required temperature depends on the thickness of the soldered wires and how well the soldering iron can transfer heat. The thicker the wire (and the weaker the heat transver from your iron) the more temperature you need.

Use at most 32 AWG, preferably 34 AWG (Ø 0.16 mm) or a thinner wire. The average currents needed for matrix scanning are typically below 100 µA (depends on your MCU and external pull-up/down (if any)). You do not need thick wires.