Author Topic: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!  (Read 164151 times)

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Offline konstantin

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #350 on: Thu, 29 August 2024, 12:33:25 »
A Russian Cyrillic alphas kit would be such a welcome addition now. Это было бы просто замечательно)

Edit: IC form filled.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 August 2024, 12:36:48 by konstantin »

Offline AMZ

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #351 on: Thu, 29 August 2024, 14:36:18 »
Is there any date of the GB?
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 August 2024, 14:45:02 by AMZ »

Offline mmayhem17

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #352 on: Thu, 29 August 2024, 14:39:14 »
I'm a little late for this revision draft, but why the decision to move alt gr to addons? I believe most people prefer it in base kit instead of right alt.

Offline Anthixious

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #353 on: Thu, 29 August 2024, 15:31:20 »
Prussian Blue and Prussian Alert are 2 sets I'm gunning for this year, glad to see this back.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 August 2024, 19:35:24 by Anthixious »

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #354 on: Thu, 29 August 2024, 15:51:06 »
I'm a little late for this revision draft, but why the decision to move alt gr to addons? I believe most people prefer it in base kit instead of right alt.

The standardized NorDEUK kit that has been devised by GMK and vendors includes all three sizes of Alt Gr already. Because the contents of that kit really need to stay the same, I decided to just leave out the Alt Gr in the base kit, particularly since some people have expressed a preference for having 2x Alt keys instead.

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #355 on: Thu, 29 August 2024, 15:51:55 »
Is there any date of the GB?

No date yet. Will post when we know.

Offline Woovie

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #356 on: Thu, 29 August 2024, 19:44:49 »
Excited to see a revival, I really hope it can run this time and I can hop on it. :thumb:

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #357 on: Fri, 30 August 2024, 11:33:12 »
I've seen some questions / worries about the size and contents of the base kit, particularly with respect to the fact that both Polish and US ("Latin") layouts are provided.

The truth is, this is the result of multiple iterations of possible kitting as well as my goals for the set.

Goals for Prussian Blue

  • Full ISO-DE and ANSI-DE support available in some capacity, including German language modifiers.
  • Full Polish Programmers' support.
  • Full US default (aka "plain Latin") support, including English language mods.
  • Basic 40s support.
  • Alice support.
  • UK support.
  • Nordic support.

What we tried the first time

In the first GB, we ran two different base kits. One was a Polish base kit, which covered goals 2 and 4, plus most of goal 3. An international kit was available for people who wanted to get full plain Latin alphas (rest of goal 3) or the UK layout (goal 6).

The second base kit, the German base kit, covered all of goal 1. With the international kit, it covered goal 7 too.

Some of the problems we had

  • Customers were very divided over whether they wanted plain Latin or Polish alphas. Having to buy an international kit to make the proper US alpha layout turned out to be a stumbling block for many.
  • Nordic customers needed the German base and the international kit, but they didn't prefer the German language mods. Using the German base as a basis made sense because of the strong similarity between the alpha layouts of Germany and the Nordics, but that similarity doesn't hold for the German language mods.
  • Overall, having two different base kits split the customer base. We were likely to land way under MOQ for the German base, and there was a high probability of cancellation. The Polish base might have made it, but it probably would have needed some buyout as well.
  • Finishing this GB without being able to cover goal 1 at all would have been a huge disappointment for me personally. It was a hard call to cancel.
  • In retrospect, given that one of our vendors from the first GB has gone bankrupt, and they would have been the chief supplier of the German base, it was definitely the right move.

What I wish I could do

Ideally, I'd love to separate out alphas from mods, similar to a lot of KAT sets. But that's just not financially wise for a GMK keyset; having a core base kit is important.

Alternatively, I'd like to force Polish in base and sell a small Latin patch kit, but unfortunately that's not going to be helpful price-wise. GMK child kits, due to their smaller MOQ, inflate the price of keys considerably (same reason why it's tricky to separate out number pad kits), so you have to be careful about what you put in child kits versus base.

What's more, if I don't offer a German base at all, then a plain Latin patch kit becomes necessary for UK, German, and Nordic support in addition to the kits they already need. Mixing a partial set of Polish subs and other languages will just look really screwy.

The new standard NorDEUK

In the intervening time between the old GB and this relaunch, GMK and international vendors have put together a standardized international kit with Nordic, German, and UK support, plus three Alt Gr (or Alt Graph) keys. Having a standard kit allows GMK to appeal more easily to those locales without requiring vendors to buy a ton of never-purchased extras.

Personally, I'd probably have designed this kit a little differently (removing the extraneous 5%€ key in particular), but that's how it landed.

So now we have a means of more reliably achieving goals 6 and 7, plus the alpha portion of goal 1. But in order to do so, we need plain Latin alphas in base.

I considered having the Polish alphas as the patch kit instead, but the feedback on that was not great either. Though I personally see the DE layout and mods as the core theme of the set, the Polish sublegends are unique and cool enough that they feel like the heart of GMK Prussian Blue for the wide audience.

The compromise

As much as people tend to feel frustrated when they perceive a base kit containing more plastic than they need, that's kind of the point of a base kit in the first place; it balances compatibility, popularity, and price by supplying more than what's needed for a single board. Rarely does any customer actually use every key in base.

So ultimately, I decided to put both the Polish alphas and the plain US versions of those letters in base. All in all, this is ten extra keys; the only Polish key I'm forcing is the numpad decimal comma (though the numpad decimal period is in the compatibility kit).

I knew that adding these ten extra keys could be a bit expensive, but with the audience as divided as it is, and with the locale support I want to provide, this was the best route.

To make room for those keys, I did a fair amount of trimming, though I did add short spacebars for Alice support, as that's become far more standard in base.

Comparison to recent sets

The base kit may look big, but some of that is a bit illusory. I've taken the liberty of estimating the sizes of a number of recent GMK base kits. I am not sure how these all compare costwise, as they are run at different MOQs, by different vendors, with different custom color requirements. Also, some have new unique legends or new types of plastic.

Code: [Select]
Approximate Base Kit Content Comparison

| GMK CYL Keyset | Color Count | Key Count | Plastic Units (u) |
| --------------   -----------   ---------   ----------------- |
| Prussian Blue  |           2 |       153 |            188.25 |
| Delta R2       |           3 |       160 |            202.00 |
| Rainy Day R2   |           3 |       160 |            201.50 |
| Dune           |           2 |       150 |            190.50 |
| Dragon Witch   |           3 |       157 |            207.00 |
| Crème          |           2 |       155 |            194.00 |
| Dandy R2       |           2 |       153 |            190.50 |
| Hi-Viz         |           2 |       159 |            203.25 |

I really don't know what the GB price of GMK CYL Prussian Blue will be; much depends on MOQ, which we don't know yet. But I doubt we'll be too far out of the ballpark.
« Last Edit: Fri, 30 August 2024, 11:52:36 by NoPunIn10Did »

Offline dvorcol

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #358 on: Fri, 30 August 2024, 16:54:10 »

Comparison to recent sets

The base kit may look big, but some of that is a bit illusory. I've taken the liberty of estimating the sizes of a number of recent GMK base kits. I am not sure how these all compare costwise, as they are run at different MOQs, by different vendors, with different custom color requirements. Also, some have new unique legends or new types of plastic.

Code: [Select]
Approximate Base Kit Content Comparison

| GMK CYL Keyset | Color Count | Key Count | Plastic Units (u) |
| --------------   -----------   ---------   ----------------- |
| Prussian Blue  |           2 |       153 |            188.25 |
| Delta R2       |           3 |       160 |            202.00 |
| Rainy Day R2   |           3 |       160 |            201.50 |
| Dune           |           2 |       150 |            190.50 |
| Dragon Witch   |           3 |       157 |            207.00 |
| Crème          |           2 |       155 |            194.00 |
| Dandy R2       |           2 |       153 |            190.50 |
| Hi-Viz         |           2 |       159 |            203.25 |

I really don't know what the GB price of GMK CYL Prussian Blue will be; much depends on MOQ, which we don't know yet. But I doubt we'll be too far out of the ballpark.


« Last Edit: Fri, 30 August 2024, 18:10:40 by dvorcol »

Offline IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #359 on: Sat, 31 August 2024, 10:33:08 »
Dvorcol that’s a great chart

Nonurgent, show Violet Tendencies on it, or some other monster base kit from back in the day.

Offline NightFox99

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #360 on: Sat, 31 August 2024, 16:28:07 »
Hope very much ESFR kit will be possible

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #361 on: Sat, 31 August 2024, 20:27:25 »
Dvorcol that’s a great chart

Nonurgent, show Violet Tendencies on it, or some other monster base kit from back in the day.

I think that would be an interesting data point, though not so useful to contextualize recent GMK kit contents.
« Last Edit: Sat, 31 August 2024, 20:55:56 by NoPunIn10Did »

Offline dvorcol

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #362 on: Sat, 31 August 2024, 21:49:51 »
Dvorcol that’s a great chart

Nonurgent, show Violet Tendencies on it, or some other monster base kit from back in the day.

I think that would be an interesting data point, though not so useful to contextualize recent GMK kit contents.

Added GMK Violet Tendencies but in a different color to highlight it's not like the others. Also added GB month to the labels.



EDIT: I'm happy to revise if anyone knows missing GB prices.
  2 Sept: added Crème GB price
« Last Edit: Mon, 02 September 2024, 19:43:19 by dvorcol »

Offline IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #363 on: Mon, 02 September 2024, 11:38:16 »
Crème was 135 at GB at novelkeys

Thanks for VT!

Offline Graysonneal14

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #364 on: Fri, 20 September 2024, 21:18:21 »
I have been waiting for this set to come back for so long. I am unreasonably excited.

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #365 on: Mon, 30 September 2024, 13:22:04 »
Some updates!

  • I have added an Australia vendor to the list: Cafege!
  • GMK has produced sample caps based on my color standard! A couple example photographs are attached to the post; the rest on are the GMK CYL Prussian Blue website.
  • Based on feedback so far from the survey, I am considering adding these keys to the Compatibility kit:
    • R1 1u Backspace (likely)
    • R3 Stepped Control (likely)
    • R3 1.25u Enter & a second R4 1.75u Shift (for Dimple 40s support, depends on further survey interest)
    • R4 1u Shift (maybe)
    • R4 1.5u Function (maybe)
    • If you are excited to see these or other keys in the Compatibility kit, please respond to the survey accordingly!
« Last Edit: Mon, 30 September 2024, 13:42:09 by NoPunIn10Did »

Offline IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #366 on: Mon, 30 September 2024, 14:13:31 »
The sample color looks great to me; is it to your liking?

Am too normie layout to help you otherwise.

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #367 on: Mon, 30 September 2024, 14:19:10 »
The sample color looks great to me; is it to your liking?

Yes, very much so. I feel like they nailed it.

There had been an earlier sample round where the result was quite off, but I think what had happened was a mixup. What they sent me was a shade of Prussian Blue that had been used in some other set (possibly even a commercial / industrial set), but it was pegged to a lighter Pantone. It looked nice, but it was considerably lighter than the RAL.

I sent them a portion of the RAL sheet that I'd been using for pictures and that I'd sent to Beesley and Manzel for renders. The caps in these photographs are sitting atop an identical sheet.

The tricky thing is that because this color shifts so much, none of the renders are a perfect match. They're all in different lighting than what I can achieve around my house. What I think it comes down to? The industry-standard lighting model for color matching and digital color capture may not be a good fit for everyday settings. I wouldn't be at all surprised if other GBs have had perceived render/reality mismatch for the same reason.

Offline IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #368 on: Mon, 30 September 2024, 17:38:22 »
Ayyy im glad that’s the color and I like the photos across different light sources.

I’m sure if I sat in Jessica’s bedroom gmk plum would look like the renders.

Offline NightFox99

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #369 on: Tue, 01 October 2024, 08:48:53 »
Very rich intense blue. Blue perestroika is underway lads !
Also, still hoping ESFR kits gonna be avail

Offline tactilesbad

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #370 on: Tue, 01 October 2024, 10:55:21 »
The sample color looks great to me; is it to your liking?

Yes, very much so. I feel like they nailed it.

There had been an earlier sample round where the result was quite off, but I think what had happened was a mixup. What they sent me was a shade of Prussian Blue that had been used in some other set (possibly even a commercial / industrial set), but it was pegged to a lighter Pantone. It looked nice, but it was considerably lighter than the RAL.

by ALL MEANS go with this darker shade of blue. way way more appropriate than the earlier sample that I've seen around (shared with prussian alert I imagine)

Offline skwrl

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #371 on: Tue, 01 October 2024, 11:49:12 »
My god that looks unreasonably good.
I'm so excited for this GB my god

Offline mr_foggy

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #372 on: Thu, 03 October 2024, 05:36:39 »
I've wanted to buy this set for years now. so glad it's now a thing, and thanks for choosing polish for the basekit.
considering compatibility/german mods based on pricing

ugh, I just noticed the vendor list... EC is not getting a cent from me. guess I'll import from overseas and skip the child kits.
« Last Edit: Thu, 03 October 2024, 05:42:26 by mr_foggy »

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #373 on: Thu, 10 October 2024, 09:03:12 »
Updated Vendor List


This list will likely keep growing!

Timeline

We don't have official dates yet, but we are currently aiming for Q1 or Q2 of 2025.

Offline LASERman Projects

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #374 on: Fri, 11 October 2024, 09:30:30 »
Great improvement with kitting!

Waiting for MTNU variant though (even w/o sublegends).

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #375 on: Wed, 16 October 2024, 07:22:58 »
Great improvement with kitting!

Waiting for MTNU variant though (even w/o sublegends).

Let’s get through a successful R1 first before we start shifting to a new profile.

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #376 on: Thu, 05 December 2024, 14:14:39 »
CannonKeys has been gracious enough to give me a GB date!

We are planning to run from March 21, 2025 to April 20, 2025.

We have very nearly finalized kitting and will be sending those off to GMK soon for quotes.

Kitting Changes
  • Compatibility Kit
    • Added R1 1u Backspace
    • Added R3 Stepped Control
    • Added R4 1u Shift
    • Added Lens/window/indicator keys for Num, Scroll, 1.75u Caps, and Stepped Caps
  • German Mods Kit
    • Removed the macro columns, as GMK no longer has most of those Cherry legends
    • Accordingly, renamed the kit to just "German Mods" instead of "German Macros & Mods"
    • Corrected the arrow position for German Page Up/Down ("Bild") legends

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #377 on: Thu, 05 December 2024, 14:23:07 »



Offline IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #378 on: Thu, 05 December 2024, 15:29:00 »
LFG

Support on geekhack

Offline roostrc0gburn

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Offline IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #380 on: Wed, 11 December 2024, 10:38:36 »







Plus

Offline dvorcol

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #381 on: Wed, 11 December 2024, 19:18:35 »
https://www.gmk.net/shop/en/gmk-cyl-fabrik/fptk2065

GMK Fabrik is also a white-on-blue Cherry profile set. But there are differences, including:
   • Prussian blue vs "original GMK blue tone"
   • GMK legend font vs MVKB's "New Legends" font
   • Icon mods vs text mods
   • Prussian Blue provides greater international coverage





Offline ZNDavis

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #382 on: Thu, 12 December 2024, 08:02:39 »
Fabrik is compelling, but seeing them side by side I greatly prefer this tone and the stock white legends. I’ll be waiting for this one  :thumb:
« Last Edit: Thu, 12 December 2024, 08:06:01 by ZNDavis »

Offline mr_foggy

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #383 on: Thu, 12 December 2024, 10:19:40 »

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #384 on: Sat, 14 December 2024, 17:54:13 »
I ordered a copy of Fabrik for a side-by-side comparison with my samples.

It’s also a pretty blue, but there will be several differences.

Offline roostrc0gburn

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #385 on: Sat, 14 December 2024, 22:19:50 »
i'm disappointed to see this from GMK. i hope it does not hurt numbers for this groupbuy

Offline Rob27shred

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #386 on: Sun, 15 December 2024, 16:20:06 »
i'm disappointed to see this from GMK. i hope it does not hurt numbers for this groupbuy

I don't think it should. Looking at the renders side by side they are actually pretty different IMO. Decently different shade of blues, Fabrik has text only mods while Prussian Blue has icon only mods, Prussian blue comes with a few sublegended alphas while Fabrik has none, Fabrik uses the sub legends on the numpad while Prussian blue does not. I think there is enough differences to justify both sets being made & not eat into each other sales. Personally I'm not all that interested in Fabrik, while Prussian Blue is an insta-buy for me when it hits GB. I'm sure plenty of others share the same sentiment leaning one way or the other.

Offline NoPunIn10Did

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #387 on: Tue, 17 December 2024, 08:38:58 »
I ordered a copy of Fabrik for a side-by-side comparison with my samples.

It’s also a pretty blue, but there will be several differences.

I received the set last night. It is a very pretty blue and is admittedly close to the standard used for this set. Not the same, but it is close, especially in standard interior yellow-tinted lighting. However, the legends are entirely different; the new typeface makes several changes across the board, and the mods are all text-only.

I can’t lie and say that I’m not a little discouraged by GMK posting this so close to when we hope to do our GB, but I have faith that Prussian Blue has enough character and uniqueness to still sell well.

Offline Nascent

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #388 on: Tue, 17 December 2024, 10:28:02 »
Just proof that with similar ingredients the appeal can vary greatly. I'll definitely be getting the more original set

Offline pixelpusher

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #389 on: Wed, 18 December 2024, 21:45:08 »
I got Fabrik in the mail yesterday.  It’s a lovely, versatile set.   But I’m still planning to buy this set. No hesitation.  As you said, it is still unique.  I love blue and I love green.  When you mix a bit of one with the other it’s 😍
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 December 2024, 22:01:39 by pixelpusher »

Offline ggggggg

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #390 on: Thu, 19 December 2024, 07:12:08 »
Fabrik being priced at 150eur is a heckin joke. I'm also pissed they chose to include accented alts for minimal 40s support instead of expanding support to include layouts other than minivan.
Really not a fan of Neue either, but that's preference. GMK can go suck it.
I'm here on day 1 for Prussian Blue + compat kit tough! I'm only gonna buy GMK from now on.

Offline IOVERCALLHISTIOCYTES

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #391 on: Thu, 19 December 2024, 10:49:39 »
Ready for Prussian blue!

Admittedly Fabrik is 125 euro and free ship after you log in and it drops the VAT.

Offline neo.geo

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #392 on: Sun, 22 December 2024, 07:45:32 »
In for this and already have Fabrik.  Can't have enough WoB and blue sets IMO.

Offline DeMechanica

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Re: [IC] GMK CYL Prussian Blue - 2024 Relaunch!
« Reply #393 on: Sun, 22 December 2024, 17:54:37 »
Very keen on in this, but not in Fabrik’s comic sans.

I really do hope that the green tinge in the renders we have of this is going to come through, the colour samples look different from what I’d expect and the best thing about this set (though I like many other things) is the unique colour.