Using QWERTY shortcuts with a Dvorak layout. need some help

[Fiery]

So recently I have been learning to type with the Dvorak layout. (specifically the norwegian version). And the biggest drawback for me are the keyboard shortcuts, which I have grown accustomed to and I think are better layed out on QWERTY. the are mostly on the left hand which leaves the right hand available for the mouse. So to the reason I am making this post, I need some help finding a way to allow me to use my Dvorak layout but having Qwerty shortcuts. I have googled and found that someone had used autohotkey to do this. I have never used autohotkey before, is this the best way of doing this? or are there better ways?

here is how the norwegian dvorak layout looks


any help is appreciated

~Fiery

[pyro]

I'd do it in Autohotkey. It's not too hard.

This "script" should work:

Code: [Select]

^j::^c
^k::^v
Syntax is

Code: [Select]

<what you press>::<what you want to happen instead>^ is the sign for ctrl. See https://autohotkey.com/docs/Hotkeys.htm for more.

Note, that you're going to lose ctrl+j and ctrl+k shortcuts (in case some of your programs use them). You can choose any other keys instead of j/k, of course.

[Fiery]

I'd do it in Autohotkey. It's not too hard.

This "script" should work:

Code: [Select]

^j::^c
^k::^v
Syntax is

Code: [Select]

<what you press>::<what you want to happen instead>^ is the sign for ctrl. See https://autohotkey.com/docs/Hotkeys.htm for more.

Note, that you're going to lose ctrl+j and ctrl+k shortcuts (in case some of your programs use them). You can choose any other keys instead of j/k, of course.

Thanks! It seems like autohotkey isn't too hard, thanks for your help!

[__red__]

Also, if you jist started down this road Colemack is a layout with the same advantages plus keeps the more common keyboard shortcuts in the same place.

[davkol]

Also, if you jist started down this road Colemack is a layout with the same advantages plus keeps the more common keyboard shortcuts in the same place.

Nope, nope, nope. It's based on different principles (hand alternation versus adjacent fingers) and it's not an ANSI standard.

There's also Dvorak-QWERTY in OS X, and DQ for the other common systems, or a similar thing for just Windows.

I've also found some folks using AHK like this

Code: [Select]

^;::Send {Blind}z   ;Undo
^q::Send {Blind}x   ;Cut
^j::Send {Blind}c   ;Copy
^k::Send {Blind}v   ;Paste
^o::Send {Blind}s   ;Save
^r::Send {Blind}o   ;Open
^f::Send {Blind}y   ;Redo

[bocahgundul]

Good luck on this bro . 1 question for you because you use ISO dvorak, where can I find the international ISO dvorak thank you

[Fiery]

Also, if you jist started down this road Colemack is a layout with the same advantages plus keeps the more common keyboard shortcuts in the same place.

Nope, nope, nope. It's based on different principles (hand alternation versus adjacent fingers) and it's not an ANSI standard.

There's also Dvorak-QWERTY in OS X, and DQ for the other common systems, or a similar thing for just Windows.

I've also found some folks using AHK like this

Code: [Select]

^;::Send {Blind}z   ;Undo
^q::Send {Blind}x   ;Cut
^j::Send {Blind}c   ;Copy
^k::Send {Blind}v   ;Paste
^o::Send {Blind}s   ;Save
^r::Send {Blind}o   ;Open
^f::Send {Blind}y   ;Redo

I found the Github one before, but couldnt get it to work as it seemed like it was missing a .EXE file
And the other one is an american layout, so it seems like AHK is the best option still. I really wish windows had the same option as on OSX... (didnt think id ever say something like that)
And regarding finding the international dvorak layout I can't really help, but Google should be your friend
*Edit* I tried the script and it seems to work, i just need to add a couple shortcuts

[davkol]

The latter is apparently made in Keyboard Layout Creator, thus you might be actually able to make a native layout of your choice.

[Fiery]

The latter is apparently made in Keyboard Layout Creator, thus you might be actually able to make a native layout of your choice.

Oh? I have never heard of Layout Creator, are there any advantages to using it?

[davkol]

AFAIK it's the official native method to make new layouts, although severely limited compared to something like AHK or XKB.

[Fiery]

Then I think i'll just stick with AHK, but thanks for your input and help 

[hoggy]

Fiery, I used pretty much the same thing a few years, sadly I don't have the ahk script anymore.

...but, personally, I think it made my transition from qwerty to Dvorak harder not easier.

[Fiery]

...but, personally, I think it made my transition from qwerty to Dvorak harder not easier.

Could you elaborate as to why?

[hoggy]

It made the transition longer and bumpier. I had gained some muscle memory with crtl c etc, but not much.  When I swapped to the Ctrl+qwerty+c mod, I got confused and would sometimes hit the qwerty key, but i would sometimes hit the Dvorak key.

Hitting Ctrl q without realising can really add to your workload...

It took me a long time to adapt. Before swapping, I could only type about 2500-3000 characters a day before the pain made thinking optional.  Losing half of my productivity at that point actually didn't matter as much as you might think, either way, I wasn't getting much done each day. I was pretty stressed out, and the only thing that stopped me from quitting working with computers was the various encounters with shop staff who would start at a shop one day with a wrist brace, and you'd still see them trapped in that situation a year later.

If I was in a hurry, I would develop 'key panic', and would guess the correct key by trial and error instead of thinking it through first. That didn't help either.

It was totally worth it.

[Fiery]

It made the transition longer and bumpier. I had gained some muscle memory with crtl c etc, but not much.  When I swapped to the Ctrl+qwerty+c mod, I got confused and would sometimes hit the qwerty key, but i would sometimes hit the Dvorak key.

Hitting Ctrl q without realising can really add to your workload...

It took me a long time to adapt. Before swapping, I could only type about 2500-3000 characters a day before the pain made thinking optional.  Losing half of my productivity at that point actually didn't matter as much as you might think, either way, I wasn't getting much done each day. I was pretty stressed out, and the only thing that stopped me from quitting working with computers was the various encounters with shop staff who would start at a shop one day with a wrist brace, and you'd still see them trapped in that situation a year later.

If I was in a hurry, I would develop 'key panic', and would guess the correct key by trial and error instead of thinking it through first. That didn't help either.

It was totally worth it.

So I should just stick with it? Also do you have any general tips to improving? im learning quite slowly, and im kinda considering giving up. I dont want to but its hard to adapt.

[hoggy]

You could try remapping caps lock to backspace so you don't have to move your hands from the home row to correct a mistake.

I found thinking through before typing really helped. That way I wasn't revising work anyway near as much as before.

Macros and text expansion really helped me out.  These currently supply roughly the same amount of input that I actually type, without any mistakes.  The beauty of text expansion is that it doesn't take much to recover the time you put into the initial set up,and it's pretty easy to add more as you think of them. You can also get more value from introducing your coworkers to the idea.

Find any excuse to not type for a few minutes, phone rather than email. If you have a ton of typing to do, try to call in a favour and ask someone else to help you.  It's best practice that makes perfect, and it's hard to keep that up all day.  Disappear at lunchtime.

If you ditch Dvorak, you'll only need to reinforce qwerty anyway, probably best to continue. Once you've adapted, Dvorak is much more comfortable than qwerty.

Hang in there! There are plenty of people here who managed to adapt far quicker than I did. Good luck!

[Fiery]

You could try remapping caps lock to backspace so you don't have to move your hands from the home row to correct a mistake.

I found thinking through before typing really helped. That way I wasn't revising work anyway near as much as before.

Macros and text expansion really helped me out.  These currently supply roughly the same amount of input that I actually type, without any mistakes.  The beauty of text expansion is that it doesn't take much to recover the time you put into the initial set up,and it's pretty easy to add more as you think of them. You can also get more value from introducing your coworkers to the idea.

Find any excuse to not type for a few minutes, phone rather than email. If you have a ton of typing to do, try to call in a favour and ask someone else to help you.  It's best practice that makes perfect, and it's hard to keep that up all day.  Disappear at lunchtime.

If you ditch Dvorak, you'll only need to reinforce qwerty anyway, probably best to continue. Once you've adapted, Dvorak is much more comfortable than qwerty.

Hang in there! There are plenty of people here who managed to adapt far quicker than I did. Good luck!

thanks!I'll do my best to keep it up! I really do wanna learn it! but a hurdle for me can be games, but ill get over it, thanks for your help I appreciate it alot 

[Vozella]

I saw a code on the AutoHotkey forums about using Dvorak but when you hit Ctrl, all the letters toggle back to QWERTY so you can use the shortcuts.
I can't find it though.

[Vozella]

I saw a code on the AutoHotkey forums about using Dvorak but when you hit Ctrl, all the letters toggle back to QWERTY so you can use the shortcuts.
I can't find it though.

I don't know if this is the one I saw before, but I found something. https://autohotkey.com/board/topic/25093-mac-style-dvorak-qwerty-command-layout-switcher-for-windows/ Here you go.

[Fiery]

I saw a code on the AutoHotkey forums about using Dvorak but when you hit Ctrl, all the letters toggle back to QWERTY so you can use the shortcuts.
I can't find it though.

I don't know if this is the one I saw before, but I found something. https://autohotkey.com/board/topic/25093-mac-style-dvorak-qwerty-command-layout-switcher-for-windows/ Here you go.

I have decided to abandon using QWERTY shortcuts. but someone else might find it useful though.

[wockytocky]

I saw a code on the AutoHotkey forums about using Dvorak but when you hit Ctrl, all the letters toggle back to QWERTY so you can use the shortcuts.
I can't find it though.

I don't know if this is the one I saw before, but I found something. https://autohotkey.com/board/topic/25093-mac-style-dvorak-qwerty-command-layout-switcher-for-windows/ Here you go.

I have decided to abandon using QWERTY shortcuts. but someone else might find it useful though.

Good move, they're really not that bad in dvorak. At least Z,X,C,V,W, and even N are all on the same hand, which is pretty nice

[Fiery]

I saw a code on the AutoHotkey forums about using Dvorak but when you hit Ctrl, all the letters toggle back to QWERTY so you can use the shortcuts.
I can't find it though.

I don't know if this is the one I saw before, but I found something. https://autohotkey.com/board/topic/25093-mac-style-dvorak-qwerty-command-layout-switcher-for-windows/ Here you go.

I have decided to abandon using QWERTY shortcuts. but someone else might find it useful though.

Good move, they're really not that bad in dvorak. At least Z,X,C,V,W, and even N are all on the same hand, which is pretty nice

true, but one of the original reasons I wanted qwerty shortcuts was that they are all available to my left hand allowing me to use my mouse more easily. but I'll get used to it.