Author Topic: Highest quality readily available keyboards  (Read 9199 times)

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Offline iri

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Highest quality readily available keyboards
« on: Fri, 06 December 2024, 07:08:24 »
My AEK broke and I need a new daily driver.

Problem is, I haven't been following the hobby for about 10 years and kind of lost touch. Have no idea what people buy and use these day.

I basically need the following:

1) the highest possible quality

2) the keyboard should be readily available to buy (no group buys, no massdrop or whatever)

3) not with the Topre switches

The price is not a concern.

Thanks
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline TomahawkLabs

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 06 December 2024, 08:50:09 »
What's wrong with your AEK? I have plenty of AEK donor parts if you want to keep it going. I also daily drive an AEK (work keyboard), but I handwired mine with a Teensy2 ++.

Otherwise, are you looking for a kit, complete, themed, etc?

Always looking for Alps SKCM/SKCL switches. Feel free to DM.
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Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 06 December 2024, 11:42:42 »
Are you looking for a pre-soldered, pre-built keyboard? Or a hotswap keyboard where you can put your own switches in?

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 06 December 2024, 13:00:54 »
You should check out the Modern Model F line that Ellipse developed.

It is iconoclastic and beastly - the weight, the noise, mechanical hysteresis - in ways that might make it unsuitable for you.

AEK is an excellent all-purpose keyboard, "just enough" tactily, weight, and solidness.
Even better when the switches and key caps are transplanted into a more "cooperative" keyboard like a Northgate Omnikey or an AT101W.

“The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.” - George Carlin

"Politicians have been proving Carlin right for decades. The GOP and the second Trump Administration seem bent on doing what they’ve always done, sometimes even turning the American Dream into the American Nightmare. Taxes are a major contributor, especially the billions upon billions that the rich and corporations don’t pay. Trump and his fellow Republicans are committed to keeping it that way — and, if their slim Congressional majorities can stick together, to do even more for those who need it the least. As one small example, the overall corporate tax rate could drop to 20%; domestic manufacturers could do even better, ending up with an effective corporate rate of 15%. The federal tax code is famous (and infamous) for its huge handouts to those with the highest incomes, the most egregious being the cap on Social Security taxes."
- Gerald Scorse 2025-01-12

Offline HungerMechanic

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 06 December 2024, 13:46:29 »
Yes, the new Model F is possibly the most luxurious available in-production complete keyboard. There are also the UNICOMP Model M keyboards.

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 07 December 2024, 15:06:59 »
You should check out the Modern Model F line that Ellipse developed.

It is iconoclastic and beastly - the weight, the noise, mechanical hysteresis - in ways that might make it unsuitable for you.
So should I buy it or not? lol

What's wrong with your AEK?
https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=124093.0

Otherwise, are you looking for a kit, complete, themed, etc?
Complete I guess.

Are you looking for a pre-soldered, pre-built keyboard? Or a hotswap keyboard where you can put your own switches in?
Pre-built.

Yes, the new Model F is possibly the most luxurious available in-production complete keyboard. There are also the UNICOMP Model M keyboards.
Thanks. I hope the Model F is more luxurious than Unicomp.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 07 December 2024, 17:21:29 »
The original Model M was designed to be an extreme cost cut from the Model F, and to over-simplify there is a lot of plastic where there used to be metal and mylar membranes where there used to be a capacitive PCB.

The new Model F re-creations by Ellipse are lovingly made and, theoretically improved. Metal cases are just one example.

But is 4 kg too heavy? Are clicking switches too obtrusive?

There are no hard answers to questions like that.
“The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.” - George Carlin

"Politicians have been proving Carlin right for decades. The GOP and the second Trump Administration seem bent on doing what they’ve always done, sometimes even turning the American Dream into the American Nightmare. Taxes are a major contributor, especially the billions upon billions that the rich and corporations don’t pay. Trump and his fellow Republicans are committed to keeping it that way — and, if their slim Congressional majorities can stick together, to do even more for those who need it the least. As one small example, the overall corporate tax rate could drop to 20%; domestic manufacturers could do even better, ending up with an effective corporate rate of 15%. The federal tax code is famous (and infamous) for its huge handouts to those with the highest incomes, the most egregious being the cap on Social Security taxes."
- Gerald Scorse 2025-01-12

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 07 December 2024, 23:32:49 »
Yes, the new Model F is possibly the most luxurious available in-production complete keyboard. There are also the UNICOMP Model M keyboards.
Thanks. I hope the Model F is more luxurious than Unicomp.
The "Model M" layout Model F is apparently made from powder-coated cast aluminium...
🍉

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 08 December 2024, 05:35:30 »
The "Model M" layout Model F is apparently made from powder-coated cast aluminium...
4 kg
Massive advantages in my book. I'm glad that the modern Model F also doubles as a weapon.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline boku

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 18 December 2024, 18:07:49 »
Did you end up going with a model F and if so how do you like it?
HHKB Pro2 Ivory | HHKB Pro2 Charcoal | Realforce 87UW | Realforce 101 | Edius V6KB | DN Piss Ogre

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 19 December 2024, 05:16:19 »
I'll order one end of January.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Alex-DM

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 20 December 2024, 10:48:06 »
May I ask why not Topre? Realforce R3 is really good.

Offline blondie

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 20 December 2024, 12:00:26 »
Is the new model F really the only thing anyone can recommend here? What's wrong with Das, Ducky, or Keychron just off the top of my head? I think the new model F is way over hyped. Please note that it comes with a lot of manual setup on your part. It's not just plug and play.
There is no greater knowledge than the knowledge of one's self. There is no greater truth than the truth of moral conviction. And there is no greater keyboard than the one beneath my fingertips.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #13 on: Fri, 20 December 2024, 12:51:07 »

What's wrong with Das, Ducky, or Keychron


Nothing is wrong with them, but the thread is asking about "Highest" not merely "High"
“The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.” - George Carlin

"Politicians have been proving Carlin right for decades. The GOP and the second Trump Administration seem bent on doing what they’ve always done, sometimes even turning the American Dream into the American Nightmare. Taxes are a major contributor, especially the billions upon billions that the rich and corporations don’t pay. Trump and his fellow Republicans are committed to keeping it that way — and, if their slim Congressional majorities can stick together, to do even more for those who need it the least. As one small example, the overall corporate tax rate could drop to 20%; domestic manufacturers could do even better, ending up with an effective corporate rate of 15%. The federal tax code is famous (and infamous) for its huge handouts to those with the highest incomes, the most egregious being the cap on Social Security taxes."
- Gerald Scorse 2025-01-12

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 20 December 2024, 17:05:25 »
May I ask why not Topre? Realforce R3 is really good.
My fingers hurt when I type on Topre switches.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 21 December 2024, 11:02:16 »
Please note that it comes with a lot of manual setup on your part. It's not just plug and play.
Huge thanks for the heads up -- I didn't realise it takes THAT MUCH effort to setup.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Ellipse

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 22 December 2024, 02:40:23 »
Great iri; glad you are joining the project! 

There is still a lot of high praise and enthusiasm for the Model F keyboard, even more than 40 years after its introduction by IBM!

I would not exaggerate saying having to install the keycaps yourself and adjust some of the positions of the springs means it is a lot of manual setup.  There is a reason for the past 40+ years folks have been holding on to buckling spring keyboards and maintaining them - the benefits far outweigh the costs of time needed for setup and maintenance.

Most folks who read the manual and watched the setup video said it took some time to set up but it was not extremely difficult.  Educating yourself on how to maintain the keyboard for the rest of your life by going through the manual now is the bigger time commitment than actually setting up any Model F keyboard.  The entire project's core philosophy is that the more people become confident enough to learn how to set up and maintain Model F keyboards, the more likely they are to maintain their keyboard for life instead of putting it in a landfill when a key doesn't click.

Some people become a little nervous with the manual because much of the manual deals with advanced topics not needed to set up the keyboard, as it is designed to be comprehensive guide to setting up and maintaining a Model F keyboard.
« Last Edit: Sun, 22 December 2024, 02:41:54 by Ellipse »

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 22 December 2024, 05:25:00 »
Great iri; glad you are joining the project! 
Actually I'm not, I read the manual and changed my mind.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline bansheetango

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 23 December 2024, 03:05:19 »
My fingers hurt when I type on Topre switches.
Even on 30g? What Topre weight did you try?
There is also 35g Niz, which is feather light and very comfortable for typing.

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 23 December 2024, 05:22:08 »
45g and 55g. I don't think it has to do with weight, there has to be something else at play. I can use any other switches with any weight just fine, even Brown Alps or MX Clears.

Not familiar with Niz, will do my research, thanks!
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 23 December 2024, 08:13:21 »

I read the manual and changed my mind.




Some people become a little nervous with the manual because much of the manual deals with advanced topics not needed to set up the keyboard.


The Model F is amazing, I don't have a new one (too poor), but at least a couple of dozen on the originals have passed through my hands and I have completely disassembled and reassembled most of them.

Clearly, I am a person who enjoys "tinkering" with things, but the investment of a small bit of manual labor on your part would give you something truly special in the end.


“The reason they call it the American Dream is because you have to be asleep to believe it.” - George Carlin

"Politicians have been proving Carlin right for decades. The GOP and the second Trump Administration seem bent on doing what they’ve always done, sometimes even turning the American Dream into the American Nightmare. Taxes are a major contributor, especially the billions upon billions that the rich and corporations don’t pay. Trump and his fellow Republicans are committed to keeping it that way — and, if their slim Congressional majorities can stick together, to do even more for those who need it the least. As one small example, the overall corporate tax rate could drop to 20%; domestic manufacturers could do even better, ending up with an effective corporate rate of 15%. The federal tax code is famous (and infamous) for its huge handouts to those with the highest incomes, the most egregious being the cap on Social Security taxes."
- Gerald Scorse 2025-01-12

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 23 December 2024, 13:45:53 »
I don't enjoy tinkering with things. I need a high quality work tool, that's all. I'd just get a Realforce and call it a day if I could.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline bansheetango

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« Last Edit: Tue, 24 December 2024, 06:26:00 by bansheetango »

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 24 December 2024, 07:23:30 »
Thanks
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Ellipse

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #24 on: Tue, 24 December 2024, 12:23:07 »
iri the general consensus is that the Model F is a high quality work tool, thanks to years and years of IBM research and development and to the open source controller developments done by geekhack and DT members.  You may have gotten the wrong impression that the tool is unreliable and requires constant tinkering to maintain, which is false.  The manual just shows the initial setup process and mainly focuses on a comprehensive repair guide for future maintenance in the decades to come - most of the steps in the manual are to give everyone full control over the repair process if something needs it in the future and everyone does not need to do those steps - you have a full ability to repair this product which needs not much more than a few basic tools like a screwdriver, key puller, tweezers, and pliers.  Most other plastic keyboards that weigh 10-20% of a Model F will work fine for a few years and then will be discarded because they are not economical to repair; that is why the Model F is one of the few keyboards that folks have been able to maintain for more than 40 years.  Why spend $100 to $200 on a full plastic board every few years when spending extra will get something that can hopefully last for decades if maintained?

After following the manual and setting up the keyboard, which involves installing keycaps and maybe adjusting some of the springs if a key doesn't click well, the keyboard is usually ready to go.  For most folks reading the manual will take more time than the actual setup.  Like many long-lasting items you may have to do minutes of maintenance each year but the benefits of the typing experience of an industrial quality keyboard that can exceed 8 pounds in weight (for some models) far outweighs the need to spend time to setup the keyboard and maintain it over the coming decades.
« Last Edit: Tue, 24 December 2024, 12:25:25 by Ellipse »

Offline blondie

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 27 December 2024, 13:06:59 »
Ellipse, please do not conflate your new Model F keyboards with the original IBM Model F. They are not identical. You can't just say that because the IBM Model F keyboards with their buckling spring tech has been around for over 40 years, that your new Model F keyboards are automatically in the same camp. Maybe they are, but your keyboards are not their keyboards and you don't get to ride on their coat tails. Maybe after another 40 years when people are still enjoying your new Model F keyboards you can make these claims.
There is no greater knowledge than the knowledge of one's self. There is no greater truth than the truth of moral conviction. And there is no greater keyboard than the one beneath my fingertips.

Offline Ellipse

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #26 on: Fri, 27 December 2024, 13:13:31 »
Please do not tell others what they can and can't say.  The new Model F keyboards are identical in construction and design of various components, with adjustments primarily to offer new layouts and completely new, open-source controller options.  These boards even use some of the exact same plastic formulations and other specifications, as told to me by one of the original factory production supervisors of the Model F keyboard.

The new Model F keyboards are in many ways of higher construction than the originals because the cases are all metal instead of almost all cases being made with plastic, with exception of the 4704 boards.  The front print sublimation is also more consistent from what I have seen.  Saying they are equal would in some ways be an understatement.

The new Model F keyboards are in every way a continuation of IBM's terrific legacy of quality keyboard products.
« Last Edit: Fri, 27 December 2024, 13:17:41 by Ellipse »

Offline ArchDill

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #27 on: Fri, 27 December 2024, 13:38:49 »
Last year I started using the Logitech Mechanical Mini because I wanted Bluetooth with the same layout as my MacBook. It gets some hate but I am very happy with it. I carry it with me everyone I go and it has held up great. I have been thinking about getting another with the linear switches.

I would not consider it high quality but it is consistent, fairly easy to replace, and a great size.

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #28 on: Fri, 27 December 2024, 14:57:09 »
I would not consider it high quality
Mate, I literally asked for the highEST quality. I'm not budget-constrained.

Also, I already have a TKL Filco with Reds. I want something better.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline blondie

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 28 December 2024, 09:37:03 »
Please do not tell others what they can and can't say.

I used the word "please." That makes it a request, not a tell. I understand you put a lot of effort into making these keyboards. I was interested in one, but you're such a pompous ******* that you left a bad taste in my mouth. Have a little humility. You're not God's gift to the keyboard world.
There is no greater knowledge than the knowledge of one's self. There is no greater truth than the truth of moral conviction. And there is no greater keyboard than the one beneath my fingertips.

Offline Tseg

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 29 December 2024, 09:21:59 »
I have the F77 and it is high quality and/but loud.  A more modern designed product using Cherry style switches that has high quality and is also available is from Smith & Rune.  They have the Alice board available, which I also have.   While the F77 types beautifully, the buckling springs echo within the block of magnesium.  Some people love the sound.  I tolerate it.  Smith & Rune boards provide the sensation one is typing into a hewn block of stone.  The pinnacle of their development so far was a group buy that should ship within a month... the 165 CE, where the bottom half of the case is solid copper.   That board will weigh as much as the F77.  I'll be putting copper colored metal keys on that when I receive.  Good luck with the hunt.   


Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 29 December 2024, 11:16:03 »
thanks

but these are kits

I don't want kits
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Tseg

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 29 December 2024, 15:01:12 »
thanks

but these are kits

I don't want kits

Then nothing for you, no quality comes off the shelf.

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 29 December 2024, 15:31:35 »
that's highly debatable, especially as I look at the keycaps alignment on that F77
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 29 December 2024, 15:35:16 »
and whilst MX switches are amazingly reliable, especially for the price, it's about the only advantage that they have
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline ArchDill

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #35 on: Sun, 29 December 2024, 16:00:30 »

Here are your best options then:

Keychron Q1 Pro
Leopold FC980M or FC660M
Ducky One 3 (Full Size, TKL, or Mini)

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 30 December 2024, 06:38:35 »
Thanks. Looks like the hobby didn't move much in the past 10 years as I know about the Leopold.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Ellipse

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 30 December 2024, 15:38:40 »
that's highly debatable, especially as I look at the keycaps alignment on that F77

The 1980s tolerances of the Model F design specifications allow the keys to have several degrees of rotation, so they will not look like a modern all-plastic keyboard.  This is not a quality issue but the way IBM designed them.  You can take a Model F or Model M keycap and rotate it by hand while it is installed on the keyboard.  Again, few folks have found a mass-produced keyboard technology that has had enthusiastic followers for the same exact switch design for over 40 years.  The Model F is hard to beat, even though it requires a very small amount of maintenance every year or so, such as removing and cleaning the keycaps.

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 30 December 2024, 19:23:49 »
that's highly debatable, especially as I look at the keycaps alignment on that F77

The 1980s tolerances of the Model F design specifications allow the keys to have several degrees of rotation, so they will not look like a modern all-plastic keyboard.  This is not a quality issue but the way IBM designed them.  You can take a Model F or Model M keycap and rotate it by hand while it is installed on the keyboard.  Again, few folks have found a mass-produced keyboard technology that has had enthusiastic followers for the same exact switch design for over 40 years.  The Model F is hard to beat, even though it requires a very small amount of maintenance every year or so, such as removing and cleaning the keycaps.
May I kindly ask to stop your attempts at sales pitching in my thread. Thank you.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline boku

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 01 January 2025, 13:17:31 »
There have been a few pre-built “luxury” keyboards lately that swear by their quality.
Notably the Serene Industries Icebreaker and Norbauer Seneca. Both sold out quickly but the icebreaker is still available for pre-order if you want to take a look. I personally think they’re both overpriced, check out the Keychron Q6 or Luminkey 98 - both available on Divinikey
HHKB Pro2 Ivory | HHKB Pro2 Charcoal | Realforce 87UW | Realforce 101 | Edius V6KB | DN Piss Ogre

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 01 January 2025, 16:20:33 »
thanks
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 01 January 2025, 17:47:48 »
https://dzen.ru/a/ZjNkQ203ZVpSVQiw says wait a few years until Seneca's technology is mass produced in China and available for $300 lol
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline quiet_destroyer

  • Posts: 1
Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 09 January 2025, 22:38:06 »
have you checked out Mode keyboards? They have a great lineup, probably some of the best quality I am aware of that is in stock. Can also check out kbdfans or keychron.

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 10 January 2025, 09:53:27 »
I now have. I now realise I should have added a bullet point for 'no hackjob MX clones'  :(
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Sup

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 13 January 2025, 02:30:40 »
Why not try to get another AEK II? Sometimes you can get a good deal on Sendico. Japan auction house and second hand.
current
Filco Zero -  NOS Yellow Alps | Canoe R1 Gateron Red | AEK II JP Cream dampend |Filco Majestouch 2 Tex case Gateron Yellow | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev AO Serial 000171 | HHKB Pro 1 2003 Rev A1s|DZ60 OG Panda's with Fei spring and stem. | Sentraq S65_Plus OG Invyr Panda's | A17 Gateron Black TX 65G 3204 | Lubrigrante Wildcard Cherry MX silent blacks 3204 58.5G Springs | Rukia Everglide Tourmaline Blue 58.5G Springs | MGA Standard Greetech brown |
Coming soon
Rest in peace Billy Herrington(William Glen Harold Herrington) 1969-2018
Rest in peace Byron Daniel 1989-2020

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 13 January 2025, 02:39:00 »
I never tried an AEK II and I don't want to =)
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline TomahawkLabs

  • Posts: 158
Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 13 January 2025, 08:38:00 »
I never tried an AEK II and I don't want to =)

The AEK2/M3501 is my favorite keyboard and I am typing on my hand wired one now lol. So we are looking for a new keyboard, with reputable MX style switches. High quality. Is there any other features you may be interested in?

My other keyboard is a GMMK, but it looks like they don't make a full size anymore, but I liked mine. Hot swap sockets, Full size, metal frame, easy to mod. (Band-Aid stabilizer mod, lubed stabs, foam between the PCB and lower case).
Always looking for Alps SKCM/SKCL switches. Feel free to DM.
AMD 5600x | RTX3080 | 2x 1TB NVME + 4x 4TB HDD | B550M Pro-P | 32GB RAM | RM850x | Node 804 | Schiit Modius/Magnius + Audeze LCD-2 | 2x Dell S3422DWG
GMMK 1 Full Size Barebones | Zealio 67g ; Apple M3501 handwired | Alps SKCM Damped Cream
SA: Camping

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 13 January 2025, 09:06:39 »
The AEK2/M3501 is my favorite keyboard and I am typing on my hand wired one now lol. So we are looking for a new keyboard, with reputable MX style switches. High quality. Is there any other features you may be interested in?
Preferably full size. Preferably not MX.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline Maxximum

  • Posts: 7
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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 13 January 2025, 09:34:05 »
If you want something prebuilt, not MX, not topre and high quality then you are probably just better off sticking with vint alps boards.
TGR Shi VA | LZ CLS | TGR Jane v2 ME | Mxx TKL v1.1 | KMG B60 | Bowl Knew60 | Polaris | Sangeo60 | MXX60 R2 | Sho S60v2 | HHKB Pro 2 2013 | AEK Tofu | is0gr

Check out the MXX60 R2, Mxx TKL v1.1 and Max Films (3d printable switch films)
https://www.printables.com/model/1011638-mxx-tkl-v11-custom-mechanical-keyboard
https://tinyurl.com/MXX60r2
https://tinyurl.com/MaxswitchFilm

Offline iri

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Re: Highest quality readily available keyboards
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 13 January 2025, 11:16:18 »
The problem with vintage boards is, they are not getting younger. My AEK broke for no apparent reason, and I bought it in pristine condition only 3 years prior.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury