Why are filco keyboards so expensive?

[alaricljs]

Venting the top hat out the top would minimize that.  You may get a bit of woofer effect tho.

[redpill]

If it's NOT the spring then explain this.

I never made the argument that springs don't make noise, just that they weren't the cause of my loudly ringing Filco.

[redpill]

Whether it's the springs or not doesn't change the fact that the plate is ringing.  If you can't silence the springs, you have to silence the plate.  But again, not all Filcos have this problem, so it's an issue of the plate, not the springs.  My Filco would ring regardless of which key was pressed and it isn't a matter of having a keyboard full of faulty Cherry switches.  The issue is that when they assembled it they didn't have the plate dampened properly, otherwise it wouldn't ring so loudly.

[keyboardlover]

I agree with redpill, it makes more sense that the plate wouldn't be mounted correctly on some boards.

[The Solutor]

Wow. Arrogant and condescending. Ignored.

 
Never heard about irony, humor and, well  realism ?

[SecrtAgentMan]

Well I contacted Diatec about this a couple days ago, I guess they'll try to find a solution....maybe.

They did tell me to try those EK pads, like that would help :/

[herfalerf]

We lack taste, yet for some reason, Ford, GM, Honda, and probably others have a unified world wide lineup. A focus is a focus is a focus. An accord is an accord is an accord. Anywhere you go, in any country, if the car is sold there, it's the same as the one sold everywhere else.

And don't even for a second claim the Focus doesn't sell well outside the US. Or the Accord.

Also, typical continental bull**** from you, yet again. We often get mocked for taking a US-centric view of the world. Well, it's often because we got tired of being looked down on all the time, so now we just ignore you.

oo sorry im gonna have to correct you on this.  a focus is not a focus.  try importing one from europe and see if it passes us safety regulations.  until recently american focuses were a full generation behind the euro version.  the focus was designed for europe and since its introduction there have always been europe only focus models, more specially the higher performance AWD varieties that would give great competition to the WRX STI and EVO if they were brought to the US.  i find it funny every time ford advertises a focus here in the us as "the new ford focus"  when its been out in europe for at least a couple years.  the same thing can be said about honda.  a short trip to the honda-eu website shows that in england they produce at least two types of civic that is not available in the US, specifically the 3 door model with a 1.4 liter engine and the civic type -R.  There is a reason some of the coolest cars in the world do not get imported here and that reason is that americans would refuse to pay for a premium small car.  Americans have this idea that car price is directly proportional to car size.  the japanese and the euros are practically forced to drive small cars because of space and gas prices, but they refuse to sacrifice quality and luxury.  this is why you see volkswagen golfs going for over 30k euros new and why japan has been pumping out extremely high performance 4 cylinders for the better part of 40 years.  As americans we are spoiled by the low gas prices and large amount of space available to us.  we see small cars as entry level, something that daddy buys his little girl before she goes off to college, not something successful adults drive.  as such the american car market is quite different from the rest of the world, we are still making cars as if it were the 1960s and gas costs 15c a gallon.  i laugh everytime i see an advertisement for a more fuel effecient SUV that gets an "astounding 20mpg."

you are right that more companies are creating global lines, but there always have been and will always be region specific models.

[theferenc]

Actually, that was true until this year. This year the Focus got unified. If you don't believe me, go take a look. The dealer near me has an RS on the showroom floor, too (and oh my is it pretty). A SEL or Titanium Focus is in the mid to upper $20K range, and is aimed squarely at the GTI and Mazda Speed3 (which yes, was always a euro spec focus, for the most part). But the ST which is coming out in the near future will be aimed somewhere between the WRX and the STi, but at a much lower price point (low to mid $20K range). The RS, which admittedly is exceedingly hard to find, is priced comparably to the STi, and at least keeps up with it. It just depends on what you want in a rally car.

But you're right, until recently that wasn't true.

[alaricljs]

I shall endeavor to remedy the situation.

[The Solutor]

BTW is Ford that is not Ford.


Ford Europe was more a a German company owned by an American one than just an European branch of a world company. Focus is basically an european car meant from the start to be sold outside the Europe.

Very different than say the Crysler C300 that fiat hope to sell also here (after a facelift) as Lancia Thema

[The Solutor]

This thread has a distinct lack of Focus.

 
Maybe this will stop to be a problem...

http://www.lytro.com/

[alaricljs]

BTW is Ford that is not Ford.


Ford Europe was more a a German company owned by an American one than just an European branch of a world company. Focus is basically an european car meant from the start to be sold outside the Europe.

Very different than say the Crysler C300 that fiat hope to sell also here (after a facelift) as Lancia Thema

That first sentence scrambled my brain...

[The Solutor]

That first sentence scrambled my brain...

 
It's just like Opel V.S. GM.  Ford use just the same brand for the two companies.

[DaemonRaccoon]

Ford and GM are two separate companies...

[alaricljs]

It's just like Opel V.S. GM.  Ford use just the same brand for the two companies.

I understand what you just said... but that first sentence "BTW is Ford that is not Ford."  is just not decipherable.

[alaricljs]

Ford and GM are two separate companies...

He was saying that Opel and GM are not (exactly) 2 separate companies and comparing that to Ford (continental america) and Ford (europe)

[penpoints]

[...] My Topre makes no noise (and my KBC Poker with browns doesn't ring either for that matter) while the Filco would ring so loudly you could hear the B flat outside of my office.  I know, because someone came in and asked "Doesn't that tone bother you after awhile?"

I think it's useless to keep arguing with Ripster & Co. They really don't understand this issue, or else they're playing dumb and will go on like this forever.

Some quick points:

1. The ringing problem might be fairly uncommon. There haven't been many complaints about LOUD RINGING so far (but there have been enough to be troubling).

2. The audio clips haven't effectively captured this ringing. However, if you're close to one of these Filco ringers, the sound is unmistakable. Not subtle. Obvious. "Clear as a bell."

3. It's probably happening to varying degrees. Maybe a faint B-flat ringing would be acceptable to most people. But mine wasn't faint - it was fairly loud and definitely irritating.

Oh but let me guess, it's some McGurk/Guitar/Made-up/Topres do it too/Filcoshill excuse of the day.

Ripster has become the King of Threadcrappers. Obviously he's using snippets to generate this stuff, given all the verbatim repetition. "Difficult but worth it?" I dunno, it's getting old. :happy:

[DaemonRaccoon]

He was saying that Opel and GM are not (exactly) 2 separate companies and comparing that to Ford (continental america) and Ford (europe)

I'll chalk up my interpretation to lack of a good night's sleep.

[The Solutor]

I understand what you just said...

 
Looks like DaemonRaccoon, doesn't

is just not decipherable.

Was just a joke in reply to the phrase "focus is not a focus" posted above.

[theferenc]

I still claim they are expensive because people will pay that much for them. The primary rule of capitalism: charge as much as possible to sell enough to make a profit. If lowering the cost can make your more profit, you often will.

But I also think there's a certain "higher price allure" to them, similar to certain electronics brands -- "this one is more expensive, so it must be better!"

[redpill]

I thought this thread is entitled "Why are filco keyboards so expensive?".

Why am I  the only one addressing the OP's concerns?

Concerns?  It was more like a question, and people chimed in on the first two pages before the thread was inevitably dragged off into tangents like most threads on GH do.

But remember the famous quote, "Ping is in the ear of the beholder".  For you technical types look up Weber–Fechner law.

Ring.  And the beholder's ear was the customer service lady down the hallway, and she beheld it pretty clearly.

[keyboardlover]

Ripster sure is angry a lot these days.

[keyboardlover]

Comparing me to a troll...

...fails to make you look better.

[Adhesive_X]

I'd love to see a video filmed from dowm the hall. If its that loud should be easy to capture.

[alaricljs]

If I recall correctly, he's posted a near field recording with a less than stellar mic and it sounded like a pretty normal cherry board to me.

[The Solutor]

I still claim they are expensive because people will pay that much for them. The primary rule of capitalism: charge as much as possible to sell enough to make a profit. If lowering the cost can make your more profit, you often will.

But I also think there's a certain "higher price allure" to them, similar to certain electronics brands -- "this one is more expensive, so it must be better!"

And finally we are back to filcos...

[The Solutor]

Ripster sure is angry a lot these days.

 
Yes, its period is shorter than the supposed 24/28 days :smokin:

[Titmouse]

Yes, its period is shorter than the supposed 24/28 days :smokin:

I didn't know ripster was a chick...
Wait a minute,

[redpill]

I'd love to see a video filmed from dowm the hall. If its that loud should be easy to capture.

Didn't come across well when I tried recording with my iphone, but then it's an iphone so whatever.  But can't make a new recording now anyway, as I've already mitigated the problem through less-than-conventional means.

[ch_123]

Also...the filco does NOT have lazer etched printing on their key caps, meaning faster wear. (the das does)

 
Unfortunately, most laser etching/infilling is done in a half-assed kind of way, meaning that keycaps like the ones on the Das or Steelseries 7G are about as wear-prone as pad printed keys.

[penpoints]

But remember the famous quote, "Ping is in the ear of the beholder".  For you technical types look up Weber–Fechner law.

I guess you've gotta be typing on a tuning-fork Filco to experience the full effect. Or if you're within a few feet - don't worry, you'll hear it. This isn't a normal Filco ping-sound (soft and quickly dampened). It's a loud, constant ringing. A manufacturing defect IMO.

I sincerely hope that you'll get one of these keyboards yourself. Apparently that's the only way you'll ever understand this problem. :happy:

[alaricljs]

A reasonable quality recording of what you describe would help.

[penpoints]

A reasonable quality recording of what you describe would help.

 
Ripster would just say it's a fake, as he has done before. Anyway, those keyboards are long gone (RMA'd). I still have several Filco's, but they don't RING like tuning forks and they're not defective. They're excellent.

[alaricljs]

I have a couple Filco's myself and am quite happy with them as well.  I am awfully curious to hear this phenomenon however.

[daerid]

If memory serves, the only recording he accused of being fake was Solutor's, and since his purpose in life seems to be ripster-bashing, I wouldn't rule it out.

[herfalerf]

Actually, that was true until this year. This year the Focus got unified. If you don't believe me, go take a look. The dealer near me has an RS on the showroom floor, too (and oh my is it pretty). A SEL or Titanium Focus is in the mid to upper $20K range, and is aimed squarely at the GTI and Mazda Speed3 (which yes, was always a euro spec focus, for the most part). But the ST which is coming out in the near future will be aimed somewhere between the WRX and the STi, but at a much lower price point (low to mid $20K range). The RS, which admittedly is exceedingly hard to find, is priced comparably to the STi, and at least keeps up with it. It just depends on what you want in a rally car.

But you're right, until recently that wasn't true.

i didnt say they werent bringing performance models, but even the top performing focus available in the US (or soon to be available) the ST is not in the same league as an STI or EVO, Car and Driver comapres it to a GTI or mazdaspeed3.  the focus RS is a eurospec model, it is not available in the US.  there are currently 5 examples of the car in the US, which were imported from mexico.  So i think the chances are incredibly slim that you are telling the truth about your local (indiana?) ford dealer having an RS on the showroom floor when they are not available in the US with no plans to make them so in the future. the only way i can see them having one is if it is a display model only and cannot be driven on US roads (kind of like the 22b that subaru keeps at its NA headquarters.)

as for the unified focus, the car may look the same, drive the same, and possibly have the same engine, but they are not the same car.  if they were you could just buy a focus in europe and bring it here with no questions asked other than that you pay the customs tax or whatever.  that is not the case.  for the 2012 focus ford has unified the basic focus platform globally, but there are probably always going to be high performance models which are available in europe and do not make it to the US because US drivers are unwilling to pay $40k for a hatchback.  the ford focus rs runs about 25k pounds in england and the rs500 goes for 35k.  thats more expensive than a bmw 3 series, which starts at 22k pounds.  wow this is getting quite off topic.

[Adhesive_X]

Finally broke down and ordered an MJ-2 a couple weeks ago before I noticed all the anti Filco rhetoric.
I must admit it made me buy reds over browns. Fingers crossed I can walk away ping free.

I can see hearing it in the same room, but people hearing it down the hall sounds outrageous.
The noise barely registering in the Iphone recording makes me feel a little better.

Hoping the majority of these ping posts have more to do with ribbing Ripster than the ping being a wide spread issue.

Let's face it Ripster is like a forum celebrity. I want an autographed 8x10 glossy of his avatar.

[alaricljs]

Yes, but it has more focus than before.

[redpill]

Hoping the majority of these ping posts have more to do with ribbing Ripster than the ping being a wide spread issue.

Only thing is, I took residential construction chemicals and used them on a new Filco because it was pissing me off that much.  What would drive a person to do that, I leave up for you to consider.

Jeez, why is everyone so hostile today.

IT'S FRIDAY!!!

Don't click if there is a chance you'll put me on your Ignore List.
(Attachment Link) 19627[/ATTACH]

Her nose is remarkably large.

[The Solutor]

If memory serves, the only recording he accused of being fake was Solutor's,

 
He does it daily

and since his purpose in life seems to be ripster-bashing

Ripster who ?

The guy who spend its life pushing filcos and bashing Xarmor (and everything else) ?

The one that call "Italian logic" everything doesn't fits its ideas ?

Why in the hell someone should argue with him ?

:pound:

[The Solutor]

I was always amused you thought 100% of Filcos had a manufacturing defect despite not even owning a Filco.

 
The filcos I own are exactly the same number of Xarmor you touched.

The difference between me and you is that I can find hundreds of your messages where you spread BS above them, while you can't find a single message where I wrote about specific manufacturing defect on filcos.

Italian logic, as you said.

[redpill]

Here we go again...

[redpill]

Didn't listen,  I don't really care what noises you can get your Frankenkeypad to make.

[The Solutor]

It's pretty easy to see nonfunctioning leds

Even more easy to talk about inexistent soldering defects, inexistent wobbly keys and so on.

For me is easier to see that just one or two Xarmor user had a couple of dim led, while there's a thread about poor filco legends longer than Trans-Siberian Railway, or the countless posts about squeaking spacebars, and now this about pinging switches.

And with all that I never said that filcos are crap like you did, I just said are overpriced and over hyped, and if you want I repeat it once again

[redpill]

No really, I can't hear it all here in this video.  Hear it fine in the sound sample.

Skip to 6:20
[video=youtube;fFbK2z2aHBY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFbK2z2aHBY&feature=player_embedded[/video]

Nope, don't hear anything there either.  Sounds like he got a good one.

Compare to my Blue Cherry Kinesis keypad





Simple question.  Is this the sound you heard or not?

Sorta but not really, because it is not the same pitch and more importantly doesn't have the same sustained ringing to it.  The annoying thing about my pre-foamed board was not just the B-flat tone, but the fact that it would sustain the pitch for a good full second after I would finish typing a line.  So here you are typing happily away on your brown switches enjoying their cherry goodness, and you get to the end of the message/paragraph/etc, and then there's this rrrrriiiinggggggggggg.....  and you're like, WTF, shut up already.  This isn't Glee, I didn't ask for a B flat to launch into a ****ty big-nosed version of "Like a G6."

[theferenc]

if they were you could just buy a focus in europe and bring it here with no questions asked other than that you pay the customs tax or whatever.  that is not the case.  

Actually, most of the necessary changes are EPA requirements, not safety issues. My former neighbor brought a rolls royce with him when he moved back to the states from england (he worked for rolls in the UK), and all he had to do was change the glass, and have the cat swapped.

The same thing happens with many Golf R31's. And yes, I know people with those, too. The VW dealer in Norwood, Ohio has one on the showroom floor, too. It's a Eurospec that they glass and cat swapped.

I've actually looked into the rules about car importing, as I'm planning on making an international move in the next year or so, which is the only reason I know this.

Oh, and to put it in perspective, the guy that owns the dealership is a Ford collector, as well. He's also got a GT500 and a GT40, a couple Shelby Cobras, etc. It's just what the guy does.

[The Solutor]

Actually, most of the necessary changes are EPA requirements, not safety issues.

Funnily enough, because those rules, a Diesel Smart car (one of the less consuming and more environmental friendly car of the world) can't be imported on the US because the EPA rules.

[redpill]

And to try to get this most OffTopic of threads OnTopic Filcos are expensive because their plates are made from the finest tensile steel as shown by the plates on defective examples ringing loudly.

 
fixed

[bhtooefr]

Oh, and an Accord isn't an Accord.

What we call an Accord is what Japan calls an Inspire.

What almost everyone else calls an Accord, we call an Acura TSX.

Anyway, as for Filcos being more expensive, when you're an uncommon, desirable brand, you can get away with that. Plus IIRC they do more quality binning, so throwing out marginal keyboards that others would ship increases costs.