Polytypists (layouts)?

[sudowork]

Just decided to try my hand at Colemak today (~4 hours in). I've happily been a Dvorak user for about 5.5 years now, but I have a good chunk of free time now. When I was learning Dvorak, though, I made sure I remained proficient at QWERTY as well. I have about the same typing speed for both, but Dvorak is just much less fatiguing (also, my vim muscle memory only associates with dvorak). Talking to friends who have learned it, however, they seem to have completely switched, causing their QWERTY familiarity to go down the drain.

So, my question for the GH community is, when and if you've learned a new layout, did you maintain your proficiency for the original? If so, are any of you proficient at 3 or more layouts?

As for my experiences with Colemak so far, I've noticed the following:
* Compared to Dvorak, it took less time to memorize the layout
* Due to its similarities with both QWERTY and Dvorak, I make many more mistakes when trying to type using muscle memory (relative to when I was learning Dvorak). For example, when I only practice the home row, I often get the keys confused with Dvorak's homerow, but when I practice the home row + the top row, the confusion lessens. A similar phenomenon happened when I was learning Dvorak originally and sentences/words would start with A's or M's.
* I find that I dislike the placement of H, J, K, and L.

[vvp]

I know only Qwerty and do not intend to learn anything else. Typing is not that important to me.
But I'm curious why you selected Colemak instead of Workman.
http://viralintrospection.wordpress.com/2010/09/06/a-different-philosophy-in-designing-keyboard-layouts/

[davkol]

But I'm curious why you selected Colemak instead of Workman.
http://viralintrospection.wordpress.com/2010/09/06/a-different-philosophy-in-designing-keyboard-layouts/

His point about the 'he' digraph is moot in case you don't type mostly in English. Otherwise, Workman was discussed a bit in this thread: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=37824

[hoggy]

After swapping to dvorak, my qwerty typing is ...terrible.  If I'm forced to use it for more than 10 minutes I can touch type again, but normally it's an embarrassing hunt and peck session - usually in front of witnesses.

I don't miss qwerty.  I regret not swapping sooner.

[jabar]

I've done Dvorak drills in the past and I became OK with it. Colemak would be my next step if I desire a different layout. Problem for me is I bounce between computers at work all the time, so changing keyboard layouts is either a pain or not an option.

[sudowork]

I know only Qwerty and do not intend to learn anything else. Typing is not that important to me.
But I'm curious why you selected Colemak instead of Workman.
http://viralintrospection.wordpress.com/2010/09/06/a-different-philosophy-in-designing-keyboard-layouts/

No particular reason actually. Colemak was just already available on my computer, and it was a layout that many already believe to be better than Dvorak.

I've done Dvorak drills in the past and I became OK with it. Colemak would be my next step if I desire a different layout. Problem for me is I bounce between computers at work all the time, so changing keyboard layouts is either a pain or not an option.

That's exactly why I made sure to keep my QWERTY skills, especially because I often have to use other people's computers.

[Hazel]

My Colemak typing speed has recently overtaken my old qwerty speed, and my qwerty speed has dropped by 30%.  But I never properly touch-typed qwerty, so for me the muscle memory is different enough to be two separate skills.

I spent a month with Dvorak before trying (and eventually sticking with) Colemak.  For a while I did indeed get the two mixed up (E and R were the worst, since they're struck by the same finger but different hands).

Re Workman:  Between Dvorak and Colemak, I tried Workman briefly.  In fact I initially avoided Colemak because of the Workman creator's critique of the Colemak's H-E digragh.  But after a few days with Colemak I realized it was a non-issue, at least for me; I have no problem with the H-E digragh.

[Playtrumpet]

I've lost about 40% of my QWERTY speed and memory switching to Dvorak and I've stayed with Dvorak for something around 2 years now. It is embarrassing to have to look down again when typing QWERTY but after a couple minutes with it, I am back to basically 60%. Had I made a conscious effort to keep my QWERTY use up, I do believe my Dvorak would've suffered - especially considering that I learned Dvorak completely without looking at the keys. There's no use since the letters aren't there. I simply don't do it.

Let's all make the gradual switch to Steno. ^_^

[sudowork]

Had I made a conscious effort to keep my QWERTY use up, I do believe my Dvorak would've suffered - especially considering that I learned Dvorak completely without looking at the keys.

I always wondered whether or not my decision to maintain qwerty affected my top typing speed in Dvorak. Even slight hesitation could completely mess with typing speed.

On a somewhat related note: my Colemak speed is up to 45wpm . There was one time when I went into zen mode and let my fingers do the work; I managed to get up to 65wpm. Still got a long way to go. I did have a scare one day that I had forgotten how to type using Dvorak, but a quick practice session on typeracer fixed that.

[ping111]

I have a huge knack for learning languages (I already speak four languages, three with any manner of fluency), so I figured "why not learn a bunch of typeforms?"  Dvorak looked boring, so I skipped it.  I went on to Colemak, and I was quite happy with that one for a while.  Not quite done learning it, but I can type any word involving arstdhneio rather quickly, meaning that sentences with only those letters I can type about 40-50 wpm.  Just today, I started learning Workman, because it looked interesting and the science was convincing.  However, I did like the outer fringes of the home row on Colemak, so I changed it to Workman-IO (which switches the I and the O).  That was one made by the developer.  However, I also wanted it on my left hand, so I made it Workman-IO-HS, which switches the S and H so that S is under my left middle finger.  So, the three layouts are:

Workman: qdrwbjfup
                ashtgyneoi
                zxmcvkl

Workman-IO: qdrwbjfup
                     ashtgyneio
                     zxmcvkl

Workman-IO-HS: qdrwbjfup
                          ahstgyneio
                          zxmcvkl


Unfortunately, using a triple-customized (customized version of a customized version of a custom typeform relative to QWERTY) typeform means that I'm all on my own in terms of learning it.  However, I look forward to doing so.

As well, has anyone seen or made a mechanical TypeMatrix?

[sudowork]

As well, has anyone seen or made a mechanical TypeMatrix?

The Truly Ergonomic keyboard seems close to what you're looking for.

[davkol]

As well, has anyone seen or made a mechanical TypeMatrix?

Mechanical POS keyboards are the closes thing in terms of layout (and pricing), but it defeats the whole point of typematrix for me—I keep a TM 2030 because of its portability.

[sordna]

Hey sudowork, I am also interested in how people do with maintaining fluency in multiple layouts. I learned Dvorak on a Kinesis Advantage (avoiding QWERTY as much as possible) and later re-introduced QWERTY but only using QWERTY on regular, flat keyboards. So I can switch back and forth really easily, provided the keyboards are different. To your question, my proficiency of the original fell a bit; I probably did 80wpm on QWERTY which has fallen to 60, while on Dvorak on my Kinesis Advantage (and Ergodox) I can do 90+

Please post your typing speeds in this thread which is specifically to record speeds for people that know multiple layouts:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=40823.0

The reason I did that thread is to try and gather information as to which layouts are less interfering (confusing) with each other. My theory was that practicing both QWERTY and Dvorak would the least confusing, since the layouts are completely different (they only have 2 common keys, A and M), whereas practicing both QWERTY and Colemak would be confusing since they have so many keys in common.
However some folks posted about switching back and forth between QWERTY and Colemak without issue, so it kind of shoots down my theory :-)

Anyway, please do post your typing speeds when you get a chance here.

[Tony]

After touch typing in Qwerty for 15 years, I switched to Colemak two years ago.

I found that keeping multi layout is possible, but the cost of maintenance is too high compared to efficiency.

So I completely type in Colemak and drop Qwerty. Rarely when I type in another computer, I download file colemak.exe to turn that computer to using Colemak temporarily
http://www.ryanheise.com/colemak.exe

After typing in Colemak to my heart's content, I simply switch off that program and leave the Qwerty computer unscathed.