Author Topic: [IC] GMK Sparta - Launched on Drop.com  (Read 83787 times)

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Offline crusader_alex

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Kit Updates and more renders!
« Reply #100 on: Fri, 23 August 2019, 08:40:18 »
Really disappointed that there isn't a planned spacebar kit. That's unheard of for GMK sets this year (I guess excepting Handarbeit+), and AFAIK any set that offers them and the base meets MOQ has the spacebar kit meet MOQ too.

This. I would urge to keep either the accent space or the regular space in the base in both standard spacebar sizes and make a separate spacebar kit with 6u and all the small ones etc.

Additionally I am not sure on having only some greek for the alphas. I知 primarily looking at the sublegends which I enjoy more, but gathering some poll on people looking at greek monolegends would be useful.

No comment on iso.

So far looking pretty good.


I would like to do a spacebar kit but the number of kits would be too high making it way harder to hit MOQ on the other child kits,i am trying to work out some solutions to this though.

Offline nuclear_wizard

  • Posts: 116
  • Location: Eastern Idaho
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Kit Updates and more renders!
« Reply #101 on: Fri, 23 August 2019, 10:51:04 »
Really disappointed that there isn't a planned spacebar kit. That's unheard of for GMK sets this year (I guess excepting Handarbeit+), and AFAIK any set that offers them and the base meets MOQ has the spacebar kit meet MOQ too.

This. I would urge to keep either the accent space or the regular space in the base in both standard spacebar sizes and make a separate spacebar kit with 6u and all the small ones etc.

Additionally I am not sure on having only some greek for the alphas. I知 primarily looking at the sublegends which I enjoy more, but gathering some poll on people looking at greek monolegends would be useful.

No comment on iso.

So far looking pretty good.


I would like to do a spacebar kit but the number of kits would be too high making it way harder to hit MOQ on the other child kits,i am trying to work out some solutions to this though.

6 kits isn't an egregious amount, but if we're throwing out suggestions to keep it to 5 kits, my vote would be to just incorporate the numpad into the base kit and then add a spacebars kit. My argument for this is there are likely more people interested in an ANSI + numpad than ISO (even if ISO users are more vocal, very few actually show up to buy kits...); so if I'm subsidizing ISO in the base, then ISO people can subsidize my numpad keys in the base kit.

Offline trg1234

  • Posts: 121
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Kit Updates and more renders!
« Reply #102 on: Fri, 23 August 2019, 12:03:15 »
Really disappointed that there isn't a planned spacebar kit. That's unheard of for GMK sets this year (I guess excepting Handarbeit+), and AFAIK any set that offers them and the base meets MOQ has the spacebar kit meet MOQ too.

This. I would urge to keep either the accent space or the regular space in the base in both standard spacebar sizes and make a separate spacebar kit with 6u and all the small ones etc.

Additionally I am not sure on having only some greek for the alphas. I知 primarily looking at the sublegends which I enjoy more, but gathering some poll on people looking at greek monolegends would be useful.

No comment on iso.

So far looking pretty good.


I would like to do a spacebar kit but the number of kits would be too high making it way harder to hit MOQ on the other child kits,i am trying to work out some solutions to this though.

6 kits isn't an egregious amount, but if we're throwing out suggestions to keep it to 5 kits, my vote would be to just incorporate the numpad into the base kit and then add a spacebars kit. My argument for this is there are likely more people interested in an ANSI + numpad than ISO (even if ISO users are more vocal, very few actually show up to buy kits...); so if I'm subsidizing ISO in the base, then ISO people can subsidize my numpad keys in the base kit.

3 things

1 consider dropping either the mono legends or sublegends depending on interest. If they really are 50/50 then oh well but first gather some data through some Google forms or what not ask on discord and stuff.

2 The numpad kit solo irks me somewhat as people usually pair that with iso as both need support to hit moq from each other. I kind of agree that you should either incorporate numpad into base or take iso into numpad. My personal vote is on the latter.

3 lastly remember to talk to vendors on their opinions and stuff since they have a lot of numbers from previous runs they have done and a lot more experience. Would take their advice more closely than people posting here including myself
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 August 2019, 12:14:42 by trg1234 »

Offline nuclear_wizard

  • Posts: 116
  • Location: Eastern Idaho
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Kit Updates and more renders!
« Reply #103 on: Fri, 23 August 2019, 12:40:16 »
Really disappointed that there isn't a planned spacebar kit. That's unheard of for GMK sets this year (I guess excepting Handarbeit+), and AFAIK any set that offers them and the base meets MOQ has the spacebar kit meet MOQ too.

This. I would urge to keep either the accent space or the regular space in the base in both standard spacebar sizes and make a separate spacebar kit with 6u and all the small ones etc.

Additionally I am not sure on having only some greek for the alphas. I知 primarily looking at the sublegends which I enjoy more, but gathering some poll on people looking at greek monolegends would be useful.

No comment on iso.

So far looking pretty good.


I would like to do a spacebar kit but the number of kits would be too high making it way harder to hit MOQ on the other child kits,i am trying to work out some solutions to this though.

6 kits isn't an egregious amount, but if we're throwing out suggestions to keep it to 5 kits, my vote would be to just incorporate the numpad into the base kit and then add a spacebars kit. My argument for this is there are likely more people interested in an ANSI + numpad than ISO (even if ISO users are more vocal, very few actually show up to buy kits...); so if I'm subsidizing ISO in the base, then ISO people can subsidize my numpad keys in the base kit.

3 things

1 consider dropping either the mono legends or sublegends depending on interest. If they really are 50/50 then oh well but first gather some data through some Google forms or what not ask on discord and stuff.

2 The numpad kit solo irks me somewhat as people usually pair that with iso as both need support to hit moq from each other. I kind of agree that you should either incorporate numpad into base or take iso into numpad. My personal vote is on the latter.

3 lastly remember to talk to vendors on their opinions and stuff since they have a lot of numbers from previous runs they have done and a lot more experience. Would take their advice more closely than people posting here including myself

I'm torn on your first point; but I think making an executive decision on doing one or the other would go a long way to actually getting those kits run. It's a totally arbitrary aesthetic choice that will vary from person to person. Maybe combining the mono/sublegends kit into one "antiquities" or "It's all Greek to me" kit might be an option since the mono legends would only add 11 more keys to the sublegends kit (one overlapping key between kits) or maybe cutting out keys from the sublegends kit that are just two of the same letter (same keys cut as in the mono kit) though I'm sure mixed mono/sublegends would bug some people. I'm just thinking that if one alpha kit is gonna get cut based on popularity of past japanese mono/sublegend kit performance it's the mono (which is unfortunate because that's the kit I would want between the two). I think there's a way to run both mono/sublegend kits as one but think that having them split most likely will mean a higher possibility of neither actually getting run.

The other two points I can definitely get behind though I prefer just adding numpad to the basekit. Talking to vendors is definitely something to do to before finalizing kits and getting this set run.
« Last Edit: Fri, 23 August 2019, 12:42:33 by nuclear_wizard »

Offline crusader_alex

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Kit Updates and more renders!
« Reply #104 on: Mon, 26 August 2019, 07:13:51 »
Really disappointed that there isn't a planned spacebar kit. That's unheard of for GMK sets this year (I guess excepting Handarbeit+), and AFAIK any set that offers them and the base meets MOQ has the spacebar kit meet MOQ too.

This. I would urge to keep either the accent space or the regular space in the base in both standard spacebar sizes and make a separate spacebar kit with 6u and all the small ones etc.

Additionally I am not sure on having only some greek for the alphas. I知 primarily looking at the sublegends which I enjoy more, but gathering some poll on people looking at greek monolegends would be useful.

No comment on iso.

So far looking pretty good.


I would like to do a spacebar kit but the number of kits would be too high making it way harder to hit MOQ on the other child kits,i am trying to work out some solutions to this though.

6 kits isn't an egregious amount, but if we're throwing out suggestions to keep it to 5 kits, my vote would be to just incorporate the numpad into the base kit and then add a spacebars kit. My argument for this is there are likely more people interested in an ANSI + numpad than ISO (even if ISO users are more vocal, very few actually show up to buy kits...); so if I'm subsidizing ISO in the base, then ISO people can subsidize my numpad keys in the base kit.

3 things

1 consider dropping either the mono legends or sublegends depending on interest. If they really are 50/50 then oh well but first gather some data through some Google forms or what not ask on discord and stuff.

2 The numpad kit solo irks me somewhat as people usually pair that with iso as both need support to hit moq from each other. I kind of agree that you should either incorporate numpad into base or take iso into numpad. My personal vote is on the latter.

3 lastly remember to talk to vendors on their opinions and stuff since they have a lot of numbers from previous runs they have done and a lot more experience. Would take their advice more closely than people posting here including myself

I'm torn on your first point; but I think making an executive decision on doing one or the other would go a long way to actually getting those kits run. It's a totally arbitrary aesthetic choice that will vary from person to person. Maybe combining the mono/sublegends kit into one "antiquities" or "It's all Greek to me" kit might be an option since the mono legends would only add 11 more keys to the sublegends kit (one overlapping key between kits) or maybe cutting out keys from the sublegends kit that are just two of the same letter (same keys cut as in the mono kit) though I'm sure mixed mono/sublegends would bug some people. I'm just thinking that if one alpha kit is gonna get cut based on popularity of past japanese mono/sublegend kit performance it's the mono (which is unfortunate because that's the kit I would want between the two). I think there's a way to run both mono/sublegend kits as one but think that having them split most likely will mean a higher possibility of neither actually getting run.

The other two points I can definitely get behind though I prefer just adding numpad to the basekit. Talking to vendors is definitely something to do to before finalizing kits and getting this set run.
Most of these things are being worked on right now,for one the base and numpad are being merged as it will help keep the kit number down and help with the MOQ for both.Additionally i will most likely be cutting one of the Greek kits because realistically if there are 2 language kits none of the two will make MOQ.There will be a poll soon to vote for the kit that is gonna stay (personally i think mono Greek is the best of the two).Last but not least a spacebar kit will be added.

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Offline FredBananaz

  • Posts: 30
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Kit Updates and more renders!
« Reply #105 on: Mon, 26 August 2019, 07:32:49 »
If the Mono-Greek kit were to stay, could it be possible to add homing bars on the bottom of the F- and J -key, or add them as an option to the kit?

Offline guzzi

  • Posts: 42
  • Location: Germany
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Kit Updates and more renders!
« Reply #106 on: Mon, 26 August 2019, 07:56:37 »
Mono Greek definitely looks a lot cleaner than the redundand sublegends. Also the reason why i am in favor of digits-only numpad.
« Last Edit: Mon, 26 August 2019, 07:58:42 by guzzi »

Offline crusader_alex

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Kit Updates and more renders!
« Reply #107 on: Mon, 26 August 2019, 08:11:56 »
If the Mono-Greek kit were to stay, could it be possible to add homing bars on the bottom of the F- and J -key, or add them as an option to the kit?
That is the plan,i just haven't got the updated renders yet

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Offline nuclear_wizard

  • Posts: 116
  • Location: Eastern Idaho
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Kit Updates and more renders!
« Reply #108 on: Mon, 26 August 2019, 10:27:38 »
Really disappointed that there isn't a planned spacebar kit. That's unheard of for GMK sets this year (I guess excepting Handarbeit+), and AFAIK any set that offers them and the base meets MOQ has the spacebar kit meet MOQ too.

This. I would urge to keep either the accent space or the regular space in the base in both standard spacebar sizes and make a separate spacebar kit with 6u and all the small ones etc.

Additionally I am not sure on having only some greek for the alphas. I知 primarily looking at the sublegends which I enjoy more, but gathering some poll on people looking at greek monolegends would be useful.

No comment on iso.

So far looking pretty good.


I would like to do a spacebar kit but the number of kits would be too high making it way harder to hit MOQ on the other child kits,i am trying to work out some solutions to this though.

6 kits isn't an egregious amount, but if we're throwing out suggestions to keep it to 5 kits, my vote would be to just incorporate the numpad into the base kit and then add a spacebars kit. My argument for this is there are likely more people interested in an ANSI + numpad than ISO (even if ISO users are more vocal, very few actually show up to buy kits...); so if I'm subsidizing ISO in the base, then ISO people can subsidize my numpad keys in the base kit.

3 things

1 consider dropping either the mono legends or sublegends depending on interest. If they really are 50/50 then oh well but first gather some data through some Google forms or what not ask on discord and stuff.

2 The numpad kit solo irks me somewhat as people usually pair that with iso as both need support to hit moq from each other. I kind of agree that you should either incorporate numpad into base or take iso into numpad. My personal vote is on the latter.

3 lastly remember to talk to vendors on their opinions and stuff since they have a lot of numbers from previous runs they have done and a lot more experience. Would take their advice more closely than people posting here including myself

I'm torn on your first point; but I think making an executive decision on doing one or the other would go a long way to actually getting those kits run. It's a totally arbitrary aesthetic choice that will vary from person to person. Maybe combining the mono/sublegends kit into one "antiquities" or "It's all Greek to me" kit might be an option since the mono legends would only add 11 more keys to the sublegends kit (one overlapping key between kits) or maybe cutting out keys from the sublegends kit that are just two of the same letter (same keys cut as in the mono kit) though I'm sure mixed mono/sublegends would bug some people. I'm just thinking that if one alpha kit is gonna get cut based on popularity of past japanese mono/sublegend kit performance it's the mono (which is unfortunate because that's the kit I would want between the two). I think there's a way to run both mono/sublegend kits as one but think that having them split most likely will mean a higher possibility of neither actually getting run.

The other two points I can definitely get behind though I prefer just adding numpad to the basekit. Talking to vendors is definitely something to do to before finalizing kits and getting this set run.
Most of these things are being worked on right now,for one the base and numpad are being merged as it will help keep the kit number down and help with the MOQ for both.Additionally i will most likely be cutting one of the Greek kits because realistically if there are 2 language kits none of the two will make MOQ.There will be a poll soon to vote for the kit that is gonna stay (personally i think mono Greek is the best of the two).Last but not least a spacebar kit will be added.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
Great to hear how receptive you are to feedback from fans of the set! All these changes are gonna lead to a better run imo.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Offline depletedvespene

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #109 on: Mon, 26 August 2019, 14:43:50 »
Minor quibble: the update says: "1) The base kit and numpad kits have not been merged,that should help with reaching MOQ on all kits by reducing the overall number." - you might want to correct that to avoid confusion.

Offline laserbeamspewpew

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #110 on: Mon, 26 August 2019, 15:20:51 »
Both Greek kits are non ideal if you池e choosing one over the other. You should merge them in a sense. Keep the keys with dual legends from the Mixed Greek kit and get rid of the redundant keys. You end up with the same amount of keys as the Mono Greek kit.
« Last Edit: Mon, 26 August 2019, 15:41:49 by laserbeamspewpew »

Offline crusader_alex

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #111 on: Mon, 26 August 2019, 16:14:06 »
Both Greek kits are non ideal if you池e choosing one over the other. You should merge them in a sense. Keep the keys with dual legends from the Mixed Greek kit and get rid of the redundant keys. You end up with the same amount of keys as the Mono Greek kit.
I'd have to disagree with you on that.Both kits have something unique to offer and i don't believe they are non ideal.As for your suggestion i did a render of that and I thought it looked absolutely horrible so it will probably not be a kit in itself.Here they are  https://imgur.com/a/cpBKRqD

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #112 on: Mon, 26 August 2019, 16:33:49 »
Excited to see this hit GB, colors look really good together.

Offline trg1234

  • Posts: 121
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #113 on: Mon, 26 August 2019, 18:14:59 »
Both Greek kits are non ideal if you池e choosing one over the other. You should merge them in a sense. Keep the keys with dual legends from the Mixed Greek kit and get rid of the redundant keys. You end up with the same amount of keys as the Mono Greek kit.
I'd have to disagree with you on that.Both kits have something unique to offer and i don't believe they are non ideal.As for your suggestion i did a render of that and I thought it looked absolutely horrible so it will probably not be a kit in itself.Here they are  https://imgur.com/a/cpBKRqD

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

100% agree those look like ****.

Offline depletedvespene

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #114 on: Mon, 26 August 2019, 21:19:03 »
Both Greek kits are non ideal if you池e choosing one over the other. You should merge them in a sense. Keep the keys with dual legends from the Mixed Greek kit and get rid of the redundant keys. You end up with the same amount of keys as the Mono Greek kit.
I'd have to disagree with you on that.Both kits have something unique to offer and i don't believe they are non ideal.As for your suggestion i did a render of that and I thought it looked absolutely horrible so it will probably not be a kit in itself.Here they are  https://imgur.com/a/cpBKRqD

I agree. Definitely not good.

Offline Calesinator

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #115 on: Thu, 29 August 2019, 20:45:26 »
I know it痴 a little late, and possibly too late but... any thoughts on doing a deskmat? Cause I壇 buy the crap out of a matching, Sparta themed deskmat.

Offline nasp

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #116 on: Thu, 29 August 2019, 21:14:10 »
I'd prefer if the Greek letters were offset to the right, but I know that will be quite expensive since those molds would have to be made and the ones in the mixed kit already exits. Perhaps it wouldn't hurt to ask for a quote just for curiosity sake? That way you wouldn't regret it later when the set sells very well.


Offline Acereconkeys

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #117 on: Thu, 29 August 2019, 21:46:09 »
Both Greek kits are non ideal if you’re choosing one over the other. You should merge them in a sense. Keep the keys with dual legends from the Mixed Greek kit and get rid of the redundant keys. You end up with the same amount of keys as the Mono Greek kit.
I'd have to disagree with you on that.Both kits have something unique to offer and i don't believe they are non ideal.As for your suggestion i did a render of that and I thought it looked absolutely horrible so it will probably not be a kit in itself.Here they are  https://imgur.com/a/cpBKRqD

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk


Not to be a negative person but that render is with the sublegends being directly below the main legends. That's obviously going to make sublegends look like ****. There's a reason every single cherry sublegended board has had them in the opposite corner of the keycaps.

Imo you should abandon having any alternative language alpha kits (mono and mixed right now) and replace the base kit with the render you posted but with the legend position fixed on the keys.

Yes this hurts people who're interested in just the colors, but makes the set much more distinct/memorable. Of course, that's just my 2c.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 August 2019, 21:50:06 by Acereconkeys »
TMO50 | Jane V2 CE Incoming | Realforce 87u 55g | Aergo

Aergo design and build log: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103681.msg2840918#msg2840918

Offline nuclear_wizard

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #118 on: Fri, 30 August 2019, 02:30:25 »
Both Greek kits are non ideal if you池e choosing one over the other. You should merge them in a sense. Keep the keys with dual legends from the Mixed Greek kit and get rid of the redundant keys. You end up with the same amount of keys as the Mono Greek kit.
I'd have to disagree with you on that.Both kits have something unique to offer and i don't believe they are non ideal.As for your suggestion i did a render of that and I thought it looked absolutely horrible so it will probably not be a kit in itself.Here they are  https://imgur.com/a/cpBKRqD

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk


Not to be a negative person but that render is with the sublegends being directly below the main legends. That's obviously going to make sublegends look like ****. There's a reason every single cherry sublegended board has had them in the opposite corner of the keycaps.

Imo you should abandon having any alternative language alpha kits (mono and mixed right now) and replace the base kit with the render you posted but with the legend position fixed on the keys.

Yes this hurts people who're interested in just the colors, but makes the set much more distinct/memorable. Of course, that's just my 2c.
Seeing as the mono kit is pretty handily winning the strawpoll, arbitrarily making the decision to go with the least popular alpha option in addition to excluding normal plain alphas seems like an incredibly terrible idea.

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Offline SwitchKeys

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #119 on: Fri, 30 August 2019, 06:44:11 »
I know it痴 a little late, and possibly too late but... any thoughts on doing a deskmat? Cause I壇 buy the crap out of a matching, Sparta themed deskmat.

This. Imagine a helmet or a horizontal sword... yes please!

Offline Mcnos

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #120 on: Fri, 30 August 2019, 07:29:29 »
Greek legends are quite the stunner.

Offline crusader_alex

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #121 on: Fri, 30 August 2019, 07:55:12 »
I know it痴 a little late, and possibly too late but... any thoughts on doing a deskmat? Cause I壇 buy the crap out of a matching, Sparta themed deskmat.

Polls for deskmat designs will be up soon actually  :thumb:

Offline Acereconkeys

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #122 on: Fri, 30 August 2019, 12:37:04 »
Both Greek kits are non ideal if you’re choosing one over the other. You should merge them in a sense. Keep the keys with dual legends from the Mixed Greek kit and get rid of the redundant keys. You end up with the same amount of keys as the Mono Greek kit.
I'd have to disagree with you on that.Both kits have something unique to offer and i don't believe they are non ideal.As for your suggestion i did a render of that and I thought it looked absolutely horrible so it will probably not be a kit in itself.Here they are  https://imgur.com/a/cpBKRqD

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk


Not to be a negative person but that render is with the sublegends being directly below the main legends. That's obviously going to make sublegends look like ****. There's a reason every single cherry sublegended board has had them in the opposite corner of the keycaps.

Imo you should abandon having any alternative language alpha kits (mono and mixed right now) and replace the base kit with the render you posted but with the legend position fixed on the keys.

Yes this hurts people who're interested in just the colors, but makes the set much more distinct/memorable. Of course, that's just my 2c.
Seeing as the mono kit is pretty handily winning the strawpoll, arbitrarily making the decision to go with the least popular alpha option in addition to excluding normal plain alphas seems like an incredibly terrible idea.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Relying solely on a strawpoll based on a false pretense (mixed legends have the sublegend on the bottom left not bottom right) is warping people's perspective. I imagine a lot of people prefer mono legend because the sublegends on mixed legend are ugly because they're in an unusual position. Also, my suggestion was for only partial mixed legends (the same letters as the mono ones), so there's actually no data on how popular my idea is.
« Last Edit: Fri, 30 August 2019, 12:39:27 by Acereconkeys »
TMO50 | Jane V2 CE Incoming | Realforce 87u 55g | Aergo

Aergo design and build log: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103681.msg2840918#msg2840918

Offline nuclear_wizard

  • Posts: 116
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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #123 on: Fri, 30 August 2019, 15:22:50 »
Both Greek kits are non ideal if you池e choosing one over the other. You should merge them in a sense. Keep the keys with dual legends from the Mixed Greek kit and get rid of the redundant keys. You end up with the same amount of keys as the Mono Greek kit.
I'd have to disagree with you on that.Both kits have something unique to offer and i don't believe they are non ideal.As for your suggestion i did a render of that and I thought it looked absolutely horrible so it will probably not be a kit in itself.Here they are  https://imgur.com/a/cpBKRqD

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk


Not to be a negative person but that render is with the sublegends being directly below the main legends. That's obviously going to make sublegends look like ****. There's a reason every single cherry sublegended board has had them in the opposite corner of the keycaps.

Imo you should abandon having any alternative language alpha kits (mono and mixed right now) and replace the base kit with the render you posted but with the legend position fixed on the keys.

Yes this hurts people who're interested in just the colors, but makes the set much more distinct/memorable. Of course, that's just my 2c.
Seeing as the mono kit is pretty handily winning the strawpoll, arbitrarily making the decision to go with the least popular alpha option in addition to excluding normal plain alphas seems like an incredibly terrible idea.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Relying solely on a strawpoll based on a false pretense (mixed legends have the sublegend on the bottom left not bottom right) is warping people's perspective. I imagine a lot of people prefer mono legend because the sublegends on mixed legend are ugly because they're in an unusual position. Also, my suggestion was for only partial mixed legends (the same letters as the mono ones), so there's actually no data on how popular my idea is.
So because it isn't your way, it's wrong; got it. Love the fact that you are saying the strawpoll is biased because your "suggestion" isn't in it, then make claims that aren't supported by any evidence about why people don't like the option closest to it. If you read through the thread, you'll actually see that at every instance (excepting one guy at the beginning of the thread) of your suggestion being brought up people have said they wouldn't like it. Why should OP even look into that as a legend option when it's clearly unpopular and not what they envision for the set (much less replace the most common legend option with it)? I'd like to think people can imagine what the set will look like even with properly placed legends without OP spending the time/money for a corrected render for something people don't want (according to data, not your "gut"). OP hit the nail on the head on why I personally want mono legends because mixed ones looks messy, and I'd like to think people agree that kits in this set look better when "spartan" and minimal rather than cluttered with sublegends. It's a totally arbitrary aesthetic choice, as I've said before, and if the majority of people chose mixed or sublegends I'd be disappointed, but wouldn't be making claims about how "biased" the polling is/"I believe this, so it must be true." Expressing your opinion on the matter is what ICs are for, but coming in with a matter of fact attitude then getting defensive when pointed to data that doesn't support your opinion isn't. You're always free to run your own buy to see exactly how popular your mixed option is.

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Offline Acereconkeys

  • Posts: 498
  • Location: West Coast US of A
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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #124 on: Fri, 30 August 2019, 16:44:24 »

Seeing as the mono kit is pretty handily winning the strawpoll, arbitrarily making the decision to go with the least popular alpha option in addition to excluding normal plain alphas seems like an incredibly terrible idea.

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Relying solely on a strawpoll based on a false pretense (mixed legends have the sublegend on the bottom left not bottom right) is warping people's perspective. I imagine a lot of people prefer mono legend because the sublegends on mixed legend are ugly because they're in an unusual position. Also, my suggestion was for only partial mixed legends (the same letters as the mono ones), so there's actually no data on how popular my idea is.
So because it isn't your way, it's wrong; got it. Love the fact that you are saying the strawpoll is biased because your "suggestion" isn't in it, then make claims that aren't supported by any evidence about why people don't like the option closest to it. If you read through the thread, you'll actually see that at every instance (excepting one guy at the beginning of the thread) of your suggestion being brought up people have said they wouldn't like it. Why should OP even look into that as a legend option when it's clearly unpopular and not what they envision for the set (much less replace the most common legend option with it)? I'd like to think people can imagine what the set will look like even with properly placed legends without OP spending the time/money for a corrected render for something people don't want (according to data, not your "gut"). OP hit the nail on the head on why I personally want mono legends because mixed ones looks messy, and I'd like to think people agree that kits in this set look better when "spartan" and minimal rather than cluttered with sublegends. It's a totally arbitrary aesthetic choice, as I've said before, and if the majority of people chose mixed or sublegends I'd be disappointed, but wouldn't be making claims about how "biased" the polling is/"I believe this, so it must be true." Expressing your opinion on the matter is what ICs are for, but coming in with a matter of fact attitude then getting defensive when pointed to data that doesn't support your opinion isn't. You're always free to run your own buy to see exactly how popular your mixed option is.

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Are we reading the same thread? Literally 8 people all agreed with lightnings suggestion on using bottom right sublegends on only select keys.

I'm not saying the datas bad because it disagrees with my opinion. I am questioning  the way that the data is set up because every render done of the mixed greek legends has had the greek sublegends on the bottom left. That sets a false dichotomy from the beginning. You can't say people strongly prefer it when they've never had the other renders to compare to. Btw I am 100% open to being wrong too if he makes a render with bottom right positioned sublegend kit, like classic greek sublegends (cherry sets), and it looks bad I will be the first person to admit i'm wrong. Imagine we're choosing ice cream flavors for a party and i'm like I think we should pick strawberry and you're citing some study that says 60% of people prefer chocolate over vanilla. It's like yeah okay people prefer chocolate over vanilla but that doesn't ****ing matter i'm suggesting something else entirely...

Final note i'll say is that you mentioned it's a subjective decision of aesthetics. Yes aesthetics is subjective, but one huge way our brains determines what looks good versus bad is familiarity. This is why i think people often think split space looks really bad because peoples minds have expected a full space bar to be there and now it's not. I believe that's happening now with mixed greek sublegends. Every single other language sublegend kit (hangul, hiragana, arabic, etc) have ALL been on the bottom right. So when someone looks at the mixed kit here and it's on the bottom left that's going to be odd and make it more likely for them to dislike it.

That's the last post i'll say on it to you. At the end of the day you're absolutely right i'm just 1 customer. I don't want to turn this into some kind of personal argument when my only goal was to explain why i was disappointed with both of the options available in the straw poll.

I am not the most well spoken guy, so if the actual runner of the set isn't understanding what i'm saying then I can try and say it again to explain.

TMO50 | Jane V2 CE Incoming | Realforce 87u 55g | Aergo

Aergo design and build log: https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=103681.msg2840918#msg2840918

Offline nuclear_wizard

  • Posts: 116
  • Location: Eastern Idaho
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #125 on: Fri, 30 August 2019, 17:43:36 »

Seeing as the mono kit is pretty handily winning the strawpoll, arbitrarily making the decision to go with the least popular alpha option in addition to excluding normal plain alphas seems like an incredibly terrible idea.

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Relying solely on a strawpoll based on a false pretense (mixed legends have the sublegend on the bottom left not bottom right) is warping people's perspective. I imagine a lot of people prefer mono legend because the sublegends on mixed legend are ugly because they're in an unusual position. Also, my suggestion was for only partial mixed legends (the same letters as the mono ones), so there's actually no data on how popular my idea is.
So because it isn't your way, it's wrong; got it. Love the fact that you are saying the strawpoll is biased because your "suggestion" isn't in it, then make claims that aren't supported by any evidence about why people don't like the option closest to it. If you read through the thread, you'll actually see that at every instance (excepting one guy at the beginning of the thread) of your suggestion being brought up people have said they wouldn't like it. Why should OP even look into that as a legend option when it's clearly unpopular and not what they envision for the set (much less replace the most common legend option with it)? I'd like to think people can imagine what the set will look like even with properly placed legends without OP spending the time/money for a corrected render for something people don't want (according to data, not your "gut"). OP hit the nail on the head on why I personally want mono legends because mixed ones looks messy, and I'd like to think people agree that kits in this set look better when "spartan" and minimal rather than cluttered with sublegends. It's a totally arbitrary aesthetic choice, as I've said before, and if the majority of people chose mixed or sublegends I'd be disappointed, but wouldn't be making claims about how "biased" the polling is/"I believe this, so it must be true." Expressing your opinion on the matter is what ICs are for, but coming in with a matter of fact attitude then getting defensive when pointed to data that doesn't support your opinion isn't. You're always free to run your own buy to see exactly how popular your mixed option is.

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Are we reading the same thread? Literally 8 people all agreed with lightnings suggestion on using bottom right sublegends on only select keys.

I'm not saying the datas bad because it disagrees with my opinion. I am questioning  the way that the data is set up because every render done of the mixed greek legends has had the greek sublegends on the bottom left. That sets a false dichotomy from the beginning. You can't say people strongly prefer it when they've never had the other renders to compare to. Btw I am 100% open to being wrong too if he makes a render with bottom right positioned sublegend kit, like classic greek sublegends (cherry sets), and it looks bad I will be the first person to admit i'm wrong. Imagine we're choosing ice cream flavors for a party and i'm like I think we should pick strawberry and you're citing some study that says 60% of people prefer chocolate over vanilla. It's like yeah okay people prefer chocolate over vanilla but that doesn't ****ing matter i'm suggesting something else entirely...

Final note i'll say is that you mentioned it's a subjective decision of aesthetics. Yes aesthetics is subjective, but one huge way our brains determines what looks good versus bad is familiarity. This is why i think people often think split space looks really bad because peoples minds have expected a full space bar to be there and now it's not. I believe that's happening now with mixed greek sublegends. Every single other language sublegend kit (hangul, hiragana, arabic, etc) have ALL been on the bottom right. So when someone looks at the mixed kit here and it's on the bottom left that's going to be odd and make it more likely for them to dislike it.

That's the last post i'll say on it to you. At the end of the day you're absolutely right i'm just 1 customer. I don't want to turn this into some kind of personal argument when my only goal was to explain why i was disappointed with both of the options available in the straw poll.

I am not the most well spoken guy, so if the actual runner of the set isn't understanding what i'm saying then I can try and say it again to explain.
I'll be the first to apologize with how strong I came on, we're both fans of the set and just want to see it get where we think it will look the best, and that's a subjective thing. But I think there are some differences in how we're perceiving the agreement with lightning's original suggestion and how the poll asking for people's preferences is set up.

At the time, all of the renders were with Greek sublegends, and someone later suggested to try it in mono. After lightning suggested only doing sublegends for keys where the alphas are different there was a lot of agreement on that looking better, but that is compared to the full sublegend with duplicate alphas. No one was comparing these to the monos (or at least no one was mentioning the monos) when they said they preferred the mixed mono/sublegend to full sublegends. As far as mixed legends versus full sublegends, I don't care because I personally wouldn't buy a kit with  sublegends for this set. So in general, there seems to be more support for mixed legends for the sublegend alpha kits. But now that it's a matter of choice between mono and mixed, we need to know what people prefer between mono and sublegend kits (in general; not just between the mono, mixed, and full sublegends) which the poll is giving good numbers for imo because many have expressed their interest in keeping this set as clean as possible.

As far as your analogy to ice cream and kit choices, I think it's a good one, but the difference in ice cream choices is too extreme. It would probably be more like the difference between vanilla (mono), cookies and cream (mixed subs), and fudge ripple (full subs). I think a fair number of people would look at the renders you have a problem with and have a weird feeling about it, but if you like sublegends, I'd like to think people could imagine what the set looks like with legends in the right place. In fact in lightning's first post, you actually have an example of it. I'll agree that that it should be an option in the straw poll, but honestly it would probably just split the sublegend vote.

Anyways, sorry about coming off as an ass; we're all just here to make the set better.

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Offline NRbigfoot

  • Posts: 58
  • Location: DN
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #126 on: Sat, 31 August 2019, 07:15:40 »
Why not combine the mono Greek alphas with classic cherry mixed sublegends that lightning suggested (Greek legends bottom right) and call it the Greek kit? It would still have fewer keys than the full sublegend kit and provide options for both those interested in mono legends and those in favor of the non-redundant sublegends.
« Last Edit: Sat, 31 August 2019, 07:24:15 by NRbigfoot »
HBCP | FLX Virgo | Evolv | Anniversary Whale | aanzee | JER-A06 | Mira SE | Leaf 80 | HHKB pro 1 | qxp | Rukia | IDB60 | equinox | No1Rev1 | Whale | Montage | 268.2

Offline crusader_alex

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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #127 on: Sat, 31 August 2019, 07:28:35 »
Why not combine the mono Greek alphas with classic cherry mixed sublegends that lightning suggested (Greek legends bottom right) and call it the Greek kit? It would still have fewer keys than the full sublegend kit and provide options for both those interested in mono legends and those in favor of the non-redundant sublegends.
Hm, I'm not sure i follow.So when you say combine do you mean having mono Greek legends in all the keys that do not have the cherry right side legends?

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Offline NRbigfoot

  • Posts: 58
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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #128 on: Sat, 31 August 2019, 07:33:48 »
Why not combine the mono Greek alphas with classic cherry mixed sublegends that lightning suggested (Greek legends bottom right) and call it the Greek kit? It would still have fewer keys than the full sublegend kit and provide options for both those interested in mono legends and those in favor of the non-redundant sublegends.
Hm, I'm not sure i follow.So when you say combine do you mean having mono Greek legends in all the keys that do not have the cherry right side legends?

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It would be taking the 12 keys that are already in your proposed mono kit and than adding an additional 11 keys that have the latin/Greek sublegends. Users would only use 12/23 of the keys at a time in the legends that they prefer.
HBCP | FLX Virgo | Evolv | Anniversary Whale | aanzee | JER-A06 | Mira SE | Leaf 80 | HHKB pro 1 | qxp | Rukia | IDB60 | equinox | No1Rev1 | Whale | Montage | 268.2

Offline crusader_alex

  • Thread Starter
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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #129 on: Sat, 31 August 2019, 07:48:01 »
Why not combine the mono Greek alphas with classic cherry mixed sublegends that lightning suggested (Greek legends bottom right) and call it the Greek kit? It would still have fewer keys than the full sublegend kit and provide options for both those interested in mono legends and those in favor of the non-redundant sublegends.
Hm, I'm not sure i follow.So when you say combine do you mean having mono Greek legends in all the keys that do not have the cherry right side legends?

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It would be taking the 12 keys that are already in your proposed mono kit and than adding an additional 11 keys that have the latin/Greek sublegends. Users would only use 12/23 of the keys at a time in the legends that they prefer.
Hm i see,that is quite interesting but will only be an option if the Greek keys with the right side legends don't require new molds.

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Offline LetoDaleko

  • Posts: 12
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #130 on: Mon, 09 September 2019, 11:40:51 »
A render with red (halt) Thermal would be interesting.

Great set and deskmat, definitly joining the groupbuy

Offline SuddenlyDonkey

  • Posts: 140
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #131 on: Mon, 09 September 2019, 16:25:47 »
Desk mat looks very well done.  What number pad is that in the renders?

Offline nuclear_wizard

  • Posts: 116
  • Location: Eastern Idaho
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #132 on: Mon, 09 September 2019, 16:39:48 »
Any chance you could replace the (I assume) 6u off-center stem white spacebar with a gold 6u center stem gold spacebar in the spacebar kit? Or maybe add the 6u white spacebars to the base (or just the center stem 6u) then replace them in the spacebar kit with gold versions of centered/off center 6u? This would look great on my Novatouched RF87u, but it only takes 6u center stem without looking weird.

Offline Calesinator

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #133 on: Mon, 09 September 2019, 19:32:44 »
On mobile and new to the site, am I missing something? Where are you folks seeing deskmats?
« Last Edit: Mon, 09 September 2019, 19:35:43 by Calesinator »

Online euphxenos

  • Posts: 323
  • Location: Fremont, CA, USA
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #134 on: Mon, 09 September 2019, 22:19:39 »
On mobile and new to the site, am I missing something? Where are you folks seeing deskmats?

Take another look at the last three renders in the original post.

Offline Calesinator

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #135 on: Mon, 09 September 2019, 23:19:50 »
On mobile and new to the site, am I missing something? Where are you folks seeing deskmats?

Take another look at the last three renders in the original post.

Ah yes I see now. Shame we don稚 have a solo shot of it. Thank you kind soul!

Offline FredBananaz

  • Posts: 30
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #136 on: Tue, 10 September 2019, 05:10:22 »
I felt it before, but now that we have been granted deskmat renders, I can only imagine how much my wallet will be bleeding when this reaches GB.

Offline Calesinator

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #137 on: Tue, 10 September 2019, 07:29:24 »
Any input on how close you plan on getting the red to say like a burgundy tofu case or the white to an E-White? They both look slightly off

Offline trg1234

  • Posts: 121
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #138 on: Tue, 10 September 2019, 15:03:43 »
Any input on how close you plan on getting the red to say like a burgundy tofu case or the white to an E-White? They both look slightly off

I doubt he is trying to color match with tofu cases. If he decides to release the color chips he is utilizing we will know then.

Offline ideus

  • * Exalted Elder
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Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #139 on: Tue, 10 September 2019, 18:48:26 »
Any input on how close you plan on getting the red to say like a burgundy tofu case or the white to an E-White? They both look slightly off

I doubt he is trying to color match with tofu cases. If he decides to release the color chips he is utilizing we will know then.

Excuse my ignorance; but, is color matching with cases a requirement?

Offline Calesinator

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #140 on: Tue, 10 September 2019, 20:19:42 »
Any input on how close you plan on getting the red to say like a burgundy tofu case or the white to an E-White? They both look slightly off

I doubt he is trying to color match with tofu cases. If he decides to release the color chips he is utilizing we will know then.


Excuse my ignorance; but, is color matching with cases a requirement?

Sorry I realize now my comment came off as that. I was asking for myself, curious if I wanted to put this in a burgundy or e-white tofu. I didn稚 mean to imply or recommend to color match to tofu cases. I was just asking if they had input on if it壇 be close or not.
« Last Edit: Tue, 10 September 2019, 20:22:00 by Calesinator »

Offline crusader_alex

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 139
  • Location: Greece
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #141 on: Thu, 12 September 2019, 14:03:11 »
Any input on how close you plan on getting the red to say like a burgundy tofu case or the white to an E-White? They both look slightly off

I doubt he is trying to color match with tofu cases. If he decides to release the color chips he is utilizing we will know then.


Excuse my ignorance; but, is color matching with cases a requirement?

Sorry I realize now my comment came off as that. I was asking for myself, curious if I wanted to put this in a burgundy or e-white tofu. I didn稚 mean to imply or recommend to color match to tofu cases. I was just asking if they had input on if it壇 be close or not.

Colors have just been posted.Now as far as your question goes I think it would look better on the E-White because the cream,red and gold combo would look killer on white IMO even if the actual white of the set is more creamy.

Offline Calesinator

  • Posts: 11
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - Major Kit Updates-Polls added
« Reply #142 on: Sat, 14 September 2019, 10:10:03 »
Any input on how close you plan on getting the red to say like a burgundy tofu case or the white to an E-White? They both look slightly off

I doubt he is trying to color match with tofu cases. If he decides to release the color chips he is utilizing we will know then.


Excuse my ignorance; but, is color matching with cases a requirement?

Sorry I realize now my comment came off as that. I was asking for myself, curious if I wanted to put this in a burgundy or e-white tofu. I didn稚 mean to imply or recommend to color match to tofu cases. I was just asking if they had input on if it壇 be close or not.

Colors have just been posted.Now as far as your question goes I think it would look better on the E-White because the cream,red and gold combo would look killer on white IMO even if the actual white of the set is more creamy.

Yeah I agree I think I知 going e-white. Any chance of deskmat renders soon? Or polls you had mentioned a few weeks back?

Offline Kerasan

  • Posts: 372
  • Location: Italy
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - All vendors announced!
« Reply #143 on: Wed, 18 September 2019, 07:23:33 »
is the color of the modifiers similar to red samurai alphas or are they different?

KMK Labs.

Offline crusader_alex

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 139
  • Location: Greece
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - All vendors announced!
« Reply #144 on: Wed, 18 September 2019, 07:51:26 »
is the color of the modifiers similar to red samurai alphas or are they different?

KMK Labs.
I have no idea what colors were used for Red Sam but I don't think they were RAL (I'm not sure though.The red I'm using is RAL 3011 though.

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Offline Kerasan

  • Posts: 372
  • Location: Italy
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - All vendors announced!
« Reply #145 on: Wed, 18 September 2019, 10:40:47 »
is the color of the modifiers similar to red samurai alphas or are they different?

KMK Labs.
I have no idea what colors were used for Red Sam but I don't think they were RAL (I'm not sure though.The red I'm using is RAL 3011 though.

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yes, not everyone communicates the colors used, thank you for doing it. I want to be clear, I asked this only because I was interested in a merge, not for criticism.  :thumb:

KMK Labs.

Offline Jampot_298

  • Posts: 29
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - All vendors announced!
« Reply #146 on: Fri, 20 September 2019, 07:04:55 »
First of all regarding the ISO compat i have gone back to baseline ISO support without having keys that lean more to some layouts without completing them.

But... "having keys that lean more to some layouts without completing them" is exactly what you're doing now. As of this update, you have R3 #~ (UK only) and R4 \| (US+UK), but are not adding the rest of the keys needed for full UK support.

All you need to do is to replace R3 #~ with R3 \| and you'll have baseline ISO support without omissions.

All the other changes are perfect, though. :thumb:

Yes i suppose i phrased that quite poorly.What i am basically doing here is offering the basic ISO support that many other sets have offered in the past but i might look into the change you mentioned,if a number of ISO users request it that is.Thanks for your feedback!
Could you possibly add a NorDeUk kit?

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Offline crusader_alex

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 139
  • Location: Greece
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - All vendors announced!
« Reply #147 on: Fri, 20 September 2019, 07:30:26 »
First of all regarding the ISO compat i have gone back to baseline ISO support without having keys that lean more to some layouts without completing them.

But... "having keys that lean more to some layouts without completing them" is exactly what you're doing now. As of this update, you have R3 #~ (UK only) and R4 \| (US+UK), but are not adding the rest of the keys needed for full UK support.

All you need to do is to replace R3 #~ with R3 \| and you'll have baseline ISO support without omissions.

All the other changes are perfect, though. :thumb:

Yes i suppose i phrased that quite poorly.What i am basically doing here is offering the basic ISO support that many other sets have offered in the past but i might look into the change you mentioned,if a number of ISO users request it that is.Thanks for your feedback!
Could you possibly add a NorDeUk kit?

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Unfortunately not, judging from how the same kit did on other sets there is no chance it will hit MOQ.

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Offline Butterbeer

  • Posts: 64
  • Location: California
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - All vendors announced!
« Reply #148 on: Sun, 29 September 2019, 03:45:37 »
Could you consider adding all red alphas? Considering the success of sets with only a two color schemes, I think Red and Gold would do well and entice a bigger audience to join the group buy. Add the function keys (F1-F5, F9-F12) to this set and now you will appeal to those who want a monochrome function row (TKL, 75% enthusiasts). Cafe is going to do this with their "Black" kit and Olivia++ will do something similar. A render with all red and gold on a red board should look pretty sweet!
« Last Edit: Sun, 29 September 2019, 03:51:59 by Butterbeer »

Offline Rensuya

  • Posts: 453
  • Location: NC
  • Blue is my spirit animal
    • Link to the discord!
Re: [IC] GMK Sparta - All vendors announced!
« Reply #149 on: Tue, 01 October 2019, 11:54:30 »
I like this set a fair bit, but I'd suggest removing the Numpad sub legends for a much cleaner look.  ;D