DIY 96 Key Project, recommendations welcome!

[Binge]

Hello world!

Heh, Geekhack seems to be the place to reach out to passionate enthusiasts to discuss, educate, and scheme everything Keyboards.  I've lurked for a while and came to my first purchase of a TKL Filco with browns.  This purchase really started my addiction.  The TKL that started things is with a better owner, and I'm using full keyboards as my work is much easier with a number pad.  About a week ago I noticed this post.

Well here is the layout that i cam up with if anyone is interested

Show Image

Show Image

Reading about the Phantom project and group buy which occurred here started me thinking a project based on the above layout may be possible with some help.  The concept of making something unique from the ground up is not so new to me as I have completed a few Guitar Stomp Box projects, but these were always modifications of existing circuits.  I'm asking for a bit of input on where to start.  I have access to PCB printing and board design programs.  If there are any of you who would like to be involved, please contact me.  Providing momentum builds up I'll provide updates to this thread. 

TL/DR: Mad props to Profosist for making an awesome layout!  Want it to get a little more real?  Hit me up

[jeroplane]

Apparently there's something similar to this in the works by a Chinese company? http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=29605.0

[Binge]

Apparently there's something similar to this in the works by a Chinese company? http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=29605.0

Page 3 of that thread has the original post I quoted above.  The chinese company is PLUM, and the keyboard is in production today.  The unique MODE option on the profosist designed board would just be more functional.  Filco also makes a similar layout but the arrow keys are separate from the numpad and change the spacing for the bottom two rows of the keyboard.

[ferociousfingerings]

I was just gonna say "plum mx 96!"

But you've actually quoted from that very thread, so...

Yeah. I agree though, profosist's "mode" variation is rather nice.

Supposedly, the plum mx 96 has "holes" (LED holes "reversed" ) for "DIY" backlighting.

However- would it be possible to use a g13 as a "ten key?" Because then i'd rather just have a 60% board and a g13. lol.

Plum's board sure is tempting though (as well as would be a "real" version of prof's). Looks like a great layout with good potential for modding.

[Binge]

Well considering extra devices means extra connections and extra cords this layout fits my needs and frees up table space.  I would love to get a real version off the ground.

I did a search for programmable keyboard controllers on the google and came up with this,

http://deskthority.net/marketplace-f11/interest-check-chameleon-keyboard-controller-t1243.html

litster made a post in the thread and I'm in the process of making contact to see if this would be viable for the build.

[alaricljs]

imsto sells those... I've fiddled with the software.  Not user friendly.

[Icarium]

Go with a teensy for the controller it's the most common and therefor easiest. Also, do something more interesting! This is just a 7bit layout with less keys! Go symmetrical staggering and add a trackpoint!

Sorry, it's cool if you make that yourself. I just find it more interesting if it's more unconventional.

[Binge]

Heh, you're right that it resembles some options people have made available, but this would be a lot more user friendly for me at work and at home.  Something that might also spark some interest would be that I plan to make two versions of the board.  One for MX switches and one for matias ALPS.  It'd be great to offer this as a kit (provided there's enough interest) and design an easily customized case.

[alaricljs]

Solve this problem and you will win... proper support in the keyboard case of the PCB/plate assembly for both Cherry and Alps (Matias).  The PCB to plate distance is different and the plate thickness is different.

[Binge]

Solve this problem and you will win... proper support in the keyboard case of the PCB/plate assembly for both Cherry and Alps (Matias).  The PCB to plate distance is different and the plate thickness is different.

Agreed this is a pretty difficult proposition.  Do you have any of these hard-specs I could take a look at?  Any info is appreciated.

[alaricljs]

Linked here:  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=33298.0

[TheProfosist]

You would have to make 2 different plates and pcbs i think and i would sick with the teensy 2.0. Might want to talk to people who have made the pcbs before like for the dox and phantom projects.

[alaricljs]

Different plates is obvious, it's integrating the differences that I hilighted into a single case design that is the interesting problem.

[Binge]

Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but the adjustment in key height is very slight.  If the PCB/plate were mounted inside of a case which had multi-tier risers wouldn't the problem be solved?  It would require the PCB to have different sized holes for which the risers to pass through, but provided there are enough of them the board/plate would be unlikely jostled/moved.

[alaricljs]

It's dependent on how you want to hold the assembly.  Most plate mounted boards I've opened are suspended by the plate.  So in this case Alps/cherry PCB height would be different, then you have from the plate surface to the base of the stem, 6.6mm Cherry, 7.1mm Alps.   And I have no clue about Alps caps profiles so there's bound to be a height difference there too.  So let's ignore how far the switches/caps stick out of the case for now and concentrate on a case that can hold the 2 different assemblies.

If you mount the PCB to the bottom of the case you're going to need standoffs and good locations.  Either your layout options restrict the locations, or you restrict layout options (winkey/winkeyless/capslock options/ISO layout/...).  Nice area over the numrow, but for a 96 key design, not so much anywhere else except if you can squeeze it in between the main group and the numpad.  Then you get to figure out the standoff heights for the 2 (alps/cherry).

If you mount the plate to the case, you've got the variances between plate thickness and heights to figure out and deal with.

[TheProfosist]

Looks like that cm storm costar board is really close to what your looking for.

[TheProfosist]

Misread the costar part threads here though http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=36137.0

[Binge]

I've been attempting to hash out a few conceptual designs.  One thing I wanted to dream about was plate mounted switches with the plate locking into the keyboard tray.  Having a 2-piece tray for housing the PCB/plate/other internals is just not so appealing for me.

Those CM boards look like a concept that was out during CES this year.  Glad to see they are going through with their ideas.

[Soarer]

I just find it more interesting if it's more unconventional.

Heh, what's cool about it is exactly that it is conventional! No problems finding keycaps to fit, except for maybe the split numpad Insert. And being less than a crazy 7bit scheme is a compliment

[alaricljs]

Binge, you're not describing the "plate locking into the keyboard tray" concept all that well.  A Filco locks the plate into the tray be way of some screws and all the plastic latches on the top case half connecting to the bottom half (the tray).  If all you have is a plate and a case bottom, then you see beneath your key caps and parts of the stabilizers.  The Corsair K60/90 are the closest comparison.

[Binge]

Being a little vague gives myself and others time to think.  KBT race/pure do not use tray tops, but why would they need to?  The concept of a lock from plate to tray could be screws, a slider, key mechanism, or even something nutty with clasps. 

Depending on how tight the keys were on the board there might not even be any showing stabilizers.  Locking to the base and forgoing the top of a traditional two piece KB-case would mean so long as the tray and plate are made to connect correctly there would be no problems offering alps/cherry boards to fit in a single tray.  Hopefully I'm not making you upset with my descriptions.

[alaricljs]

No, I get it.. but some people prefer the aesthetics of having a 'surround'.  Only the boards that don't have discrete blocks of keys (poker/race/...) can get away with it without complaints from someone.  These often have case bottoms with tall sides that still end up being a surround for the 1 main block.  The 96 key layout will have the F-row blocks and the numpad block to deal with.

[TheProfosist]

only keyboards that dont use this are the corsair boards right?

[alaricljs]

They're the only ones I know of that do it that way.

[Binge]

Perhaps the F-row spacing could simply be empty space.  Being fancy never hurt anyone   People are kind of into the colored plates available on some boards.  I remember a few people around here doing powder coating.  Custom color plates, custom color base tray, add your choice of cherry or ALPs and pick your keycaps to match.  I'd love to make such a kit available.

[alaricljs]

I've pondered designs very similar to the Corsair, just not sure it would get enough interest to get good volume going.  I think it works especially well with backlight since you get to see more "underglow".

[Binge]

Honestly I think people would love an an open top..  It would be super easy to clean and coloring the plate + underglow options would be pretty chill.  Corsair's design isn't turning people away from their boards.  It's the lack of an entire mech option and being stuck looking at wayyyy too much silver.  For showing so much it could stand to be a little more minimalistic.

[FoxWolf1]

Swap the media keys to the top of the numberpad area and move the insert cluster down a row, so that the navigation keys (pageup, pagedown, home, end) are closer to the arrows. Also, it'd be really neat if the 1 and 3 keys could send browser back and browser forwards...if you put in a trackpoint, they could even be Mouse4 and Mouse5.

This layout with a trackpoint and a very thick/rugged plate and case would go straight to the top of my "must buy" list. An open top design in all metal with a neat "underglow" effect certainly wouldn't hurt, either.

One other possibility I was thinking about...can a solid-enough plate be fashioned from some sort of translucent material such that multi-color LEDs could be mounted straight on the PCB instead of having to fit into the switches? The light would then diffuse through the translucent plate to produce a strong underglow effect with the possibility of color cycling.

[alaricljs]

A full thickness (5mm) acrylic plate has been done for a few Korean boards.  After swiss-cheesing the acrylic it's quite flexible, the solidity is derived from the PCB/plate/switch sandwich and the plate being a part of the case itself.

[__red__]

I've built a keyboard like this and the plate by itself is rigid but will break if you place rotational force on it.

Adding the pcb however improves it by an order of magnitude.

[Binge]

Just a small update.  I've made almost no progress on making schems or cad write-ups because I'm currently learning to use KiCAD.  Conceptually I have an idea of how I'd like the project to end up, and I want to mock-up the project and bounce the idea off of some people here before continuing further.  If anyone has a good resource of open libraries/keyboard libraries for KiCAD I would appreciate the handout, but I do not expect anything if people are protective of the parts that they have made in the system.

[TheProfosist]

Well im glad to hear that your still working on the project as I would like to see it complete sadly I cant help you much on the actual design end.

[FoxWolf1]

I made an image to illustrate the layout tweaks that I was suggesting in my earlier post:

More

(now hidden because it's not that good after all)

[TheProfosist]

if m6 and m7 are supposed to be mouse buttons doesnt by default a mouse driver only go up to 5, 4 being back 5 being forward...

O and I would probably leave it in the second mode most of the time, except possibly when gaming.

[FoxWolf1]

if m6 and m7 are supposed to be mouse buttons doesnt by default a mouse driver only go up to 5, 4 being back 5 being forward...

Indeed.

I figured a couple of extra buttons could be made useful in various ways. The simplest way would be to just have them send some unused keycode/Joystick-button for use in AutoHotkey scripts. Slightly more complicated would be to place a Good Work Systems "AMP" (or similar device) (EDIT: Actually, the AMP doesn't work this way) within the keyboard's case and have both the keyboard and the trackpoint plugged into it; that would grant full onboard scripting capabilities for the keyboard, trackpoint, and up to 8 mouse buttons. Then the most complicated way would be to duplicate the functionality of such a device and build it in directly.

However it's implemented, though, it's nice (and also completely optional) to have a couple of spare buttons that are easily accessible from mouse position for...well, whatever the user wants to use them for.

Also, it's interesting that you'd leave it in the second mode most of the time...I'd usually keep it in the first, where it's kind of like a TKL but with a bit more optimization for web browsing and media control.

[Soarer]

I would prefer Binge's second mode all of the time - I use the numpad cursors!

Regardless of my preference, I certainly think mode 2 should have a NumLk key. This is rather fundamental to being able to provide all functions of a full-size keyboard in the smaller format.

[JaccoW]

I would just like to add that this looks like a sweet layout.
Not too sure about the mouse-nipple since it will make it more difficult to put custom keys on it AND will make it necessary to have different molds for the keys.

But it's your design, keep it up and I will keep an eye on this thread.

[Loligagger]

Any updates on this project? Neither the plum96 or quickfire TK are ideal for a few reasons and I'd like to see this take off.

[clickclack123]

Free bump! I'm also interested in this project.

[SpAmRaY]

Considering this thread is from October 2012 I think its safe to say this project isn't going anywhere.

[Soarer]

You never know. Someone tried to revive the ping/ring argument the other day.

[Pacifist]

is it possible to make the numpad on the left? that way for gaming its better

[SpAmRaY]

You never know. Someone tried to revive the ping/ring argument the other day.

:facepalm:

eventually we all end up where we started I suppose

[Binge]

yeah I gave this up a long time ago-- locking

[Soarer]

spoil-sport