Phantom Custom Keyboard Group Buy (CLOSED)

[litster]

Okay, I will check tomorrow, I am not surprised if I screwed it up  There are so many files :-).  I have even more files with the case...  I am about to go to bed...  zzzzzzz....

[laffindude]

That acrylic case looks AMAZING. Do want.

[Tarkoon]

@Lister
How is the plate/PCB attached to the case? I don't see any connection points...

[ishtob]

So it is doable.  That is good.  What is the diameter for the rods?

i used the 1/16 rods, they fit real well

[ishtob]

making the case both phantom and filco compatible would give us more buyers and maybe drive down the price

[alaricljs]

The shoulder bolt may be difficult due to the thickness of the shoulder if you're going to counter-sink it.  An undercut flat-head may be a better choice to get the flat/countersunk finish.  Definitely MC for the screws and so forth

Another interesting thing with painting acrylic is painting the internal surfaces only.

[litster]

@Lister
How is the plate/PCB attached to the case? I don't see any connection points...

See the 3rd bullet in my post here http://geekhack.org/showthread.php?23572-Phantom-Custom-Keyboard-Group-Buy-(Order-Only)&p=461761&viewfull=1#post461761

making the case both phantom and filco compatible would give us more buyers and maybe drive down the price

The bottom 2 layers are compatible between the two.  The top are kind off compatible.  The Filco top two layers should work for Phantom, but not perfectly.  I think I will decide later once the Phantom prototype is built with PCB and plate.  

What I want to know is, is $250 shipped for this case too expensive?  It should be less than that, but shipping is going to be expensive as acrylic is heavy, more so for EU folks.  If this could be made in EU then the EU orders would in cur less for shipping.  To me $250 is too much for this case.  Especially because it is not perfect.  It will require some polishing.  As a kit you can make for fun, yes it is worth it.  As a final, fully finished product, it isn't.  Well, I haven't been able to make it so anyway.

[litster]

alaricljs and harrison, thanks for the screw ideas.  I will check out MC.   Counter sink is hard to do because of layers.  I could use a thicker top layer, but laser can't cut count sink, so it will have to be done manually (with a drill bit or is there a better way to do it?).

[whiskerBox]

What I want to know is, is $250 shipped for this case too expensive?

Yes, but with that said I would still pay it. I wasn't going to do this phantom thing but your case has convinced me and now I am very interested.

Will this case be Filco Compatible in the final version? or will it be necessary to order the phantom pcb?

[litster]

Yes, but with that said I would still pay it. I wasn't going to do this phantom thing but your case has convinced me and now I am very interested.

Will this case be Filco Compatible in the final version? or will it be necessary to order the phantom pcb?

I think I can make it fit both, there will be some compromises though.  The top 2 layers could fit Phantom better if it is Phantom-specific.  But I bet other people don't notice the difference.

Oh, I don't think I made it clear.  The pictures I took of the case has a Filco 1 installed in it, not the Phantom.  Just in case people are wondering.

[whiskerBox]

This might sound like blasphemy, but I like my Filco and would really only want to replace the case as I am satisfied with the layout and programming of the keyboard.

[alaricljs]

There are specific bits for countersinking that match the angle of the screw head.  You can get a selection at Home Depot, here's a pic from Amazon.

[litster]

There are specific bits for countersinking that match the angle of the screw head.  You can get a selection at Home Depot, here's a pic from Amazon.

Thanks for the link.  If I do this, I would need a thicker top plate than I have now, and more manual labor... :-)  I wonder how well acrylic would hold up if I jsut screw into acrylic, kind of like the IBM Model screws screw directly into the plastic case.  What do you call that kind of screws?

[alaricljs]

Self tapping screws for plastic.  You typically drill pilot holes the diameter of the screw shank (the diameter of the screw if you subtract the threads).  As always, McMaster  has a wide selection.  Skip over the sheet metal screws and you'll find several 'for plastics'.

[DaemonRaccoon]

Thanks for the link.  If I do this, I would need a thicker top plate than I have now, and more manual labor... :-)  I wonder how well acrylic would hold up if I jsut screw into acrylic, kind of like the IBM Model screws screw directly into the plastic case.  What do you call that kind of screws?

They're called Shank-Screws, it's a kind of self-tapping screw.

EDIT: LOL Ninja'd

[litster]

Cool, I need to get some of those tappering screws and test with my acrylic to see if they would crack the case.  

What do you guys think about detactable USB cable?  Take a look at the picture of the back side of my case.  The Filco cable has this notchy thing on it and I designed the cut out to make that notchy thing fit perfectly.  But for Phantom I don't know what cable to use.  There is already a mini USB connector the Teensy.  So the simplest way to do this is to just plug a minu USB cable into the Teensy and close the case up and be done with, maybe a zip tie to tie it down or make it so you can yank it out of the case.

I would love to hear ideas on how it could be done, as I would need to accomodate this feature with the case design.

[dorkvader]

The case looks fantastic, i'll absolutely be ordering one.  I think an etched/engraved logo will be much better than a fully cut logo anyhow.

I think the screws that get used should be Countersunk flat-head, but that of course requires the use of a countersink on the top plate, which is likely going to be an issue.  The biggest benefit is that the top surface of the case will be flat after the screws are installed.  Perhaps I can do this on my own by using my own hardware.  McMaster-Carr is likely going to be the best way to get a mass order of hardware of a known quality.

Alternatively, a shoulder bolt might be kind of cool, and could eliminate the possibility of over-tightening and cracking the top layer.

For run-of-the-mill, a panhead bolt will likely do the trick.


Also, painting acrylic is very simple.  A little masking and light sanding, and you could easily paint the layers prior to assembly.  I personally think i'd prefer a smoked black case rather than full-clear.  I'm not sure whether doing an order with varying materials is going to result in a significantly higher per-unit cost, as you won't be able to buy as much quantity of any one material.

Yeah, I was looking into rather doing it with shoulder hex bolts, 'cause it'll look really professional when done. Why flathead, unless you man the top of the screwhead being flat, not the slotted screw type.

I still very well might end up building my own, but an official case would still be excellent.

[litster]

Litster I think you simply uploaded the wrong screenshot, PHISO125 and PHANSI125 both are the same image.

Fixed.  Please check to confirm.  

This has been done I think. You should have the dxf litster, could you please update the second post? Tell me if there is something more I need to do...

Zip file has been attached to the 2nd post as well.

[laffindude]

I am not sure if screwing in acrylic is the best idea. You can press in brass fittings and screw into that.

[litster]

I am not sure if screwing in acrylic is the best idea. You can press in brass fittings and screw into that.

laffindude, any sample pictures you can point me to?  Thanks.

[laffindude]

http://www.professionalfastenerservices.co.uk/images/M4%20inserst.jpg
I think they're called brass inserts. Basically it has perpendicular grooves on the outside to hold it in place against the direction of your screw direction.

[BiNiaRiS]

i got back the first test plates today. they are rough around the edges, but that can be sanded down easily. gonna shoot these off to litster and we can get this rolling if they check out.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 33670[/ATTACH]

[litster]

i got back the first test plates today. they are rough around the edges, but that can be sanded down easily. gonna shoot these off to litster and we can get this rolling if they check out.

(Attachment Link) 33670[/ATTACH]

Sweeeet!  Thanks BiNiaRiS!

[TheProfosist]

This has been done I think. You should have the dxf litster, could you please update the second post? Tell me if there is something more I need to do...

Thanks now I just have to find out a place to send this off to to get cut

[litster]

The more I look at the acrylic case, the more I think it looks weird.  Then I realized because it is so flat, and the front is so high comparing to the actual Filco case.



I don't like it!!!!

[dorkvader]

Flat is okay, but I also notice that it's a lot higher. What's all the space under the board used for?

[ishtob]

the koreans uses something thinner for the last layer, then uses feets to tilt it

[litster]

The last layer is the bottom, the layer about that layer, with the phantom text cutout, is about 3/8" think, because I need to cut out the area about the Phantom text to make room for either the Filco connector or the Phantom's Teensy controller.  Because of my flat design, to make from for these two items, even though they are toward the back of the case, the same thickness is all there for the front.  It sucks.

I need a different design.  The Phatom design should fit the Filco case perfectly.  But my Acrylic case design is not like Filco's case.

[Findecanor]

I agree. The bottom plate could be much thinner. I think that you need only a smaller box on the underside around the controller and cable.  The keyboard case would of course tilt forwards and require rubber feet

I think that for stability, the box on the underside should extend to the left and right more than the required space, but for looks, it should not extend all the way, leaving a cm or so on the left and right ends. Alternatively, use large screw-on feet on the left and right sides.

I think that the plate could be suspended from the bottom plate with nylon spacers (commonly found in hardware stores) put inside the four large holes in the PCB.

[Tarkoon]

Did you change the estimated price for the kits?
OP says 125$ for PHISOREDKIT, but the mail I got today says 150$.
I know the prices are only estimated, but it would be good to have the latest estimation in the OP - that people finding this thread and getting interested get the right idea of prices...

[litster]

I am changing the design.  That Phantom text cut out will be gone.  The material for that piece was over $25 and the lasercut time is very long, for it is both thick, and a lot of lines to trace.  The new design, if I do it right, should have a sloped key surface as the front row will sink in lower.

[Wraul]

Lister, when you are done with the case would you please share the CAD drawings?

[litster]

The $25 I mention previously is just for one of the 4 layers.  Material cost for the whole case that I cut 2 days ago is about $55.

[digitalleftovers]

I've looked through most of this threading hoping to find anything about the case design for the ANSI layout without windows keys.  Does anyone have any suggestions for that?  If plexi case comes together, perhaps there will need to be a separate top plate with coveres for those spaces?

[dux]

Plu Dimensions:
size of PCB 122 * 345 mm , one or 2 mm more would not be a problem
size of plate 128 * 349 mm, the 128 should be rather precise cut

distance between:
ESC and F1: 38 mm
F9 to Pause/Break : 119 mm
ESC and Pause/Break : 328.5 mm
Pause/Break and Right Arrow: 104 mm
Distance between all the holes on the PCB for the supporting posts on the bottom of the keyboard case

I measuerd all holes from the middle of the hole.
All upper holes have the distance of 22.5mm from the upper edge of the PCB.
The distances of the upper 3 holes from left (CapsLock side) to the right side are:
left edge to 1st hole: 56mm, 1st hole to 2nd hole: 115.5mm, 2nd hole to the 3rd hole: 115.5mm, 3rd hole to the right edge: 58.5mm.

Lower right (CapsLock Side) hole: 13mm to the bottom edge, 58.5mm to the right edge.
Lower left hole: 36mm to the left edge, 37.5mm to the bottom edge.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 33926[/ATTACH]

[litster]

I've looked through most of this threading hoping to find anything about the case design for the ANSI layout without windows keys.  Does anyone have any suggestions for that?  If plexi case comes together, perhaps there will need to be a separate top plate with coveres for those spaces?

*If* the acrylic case come together, creating a design for ANSI with no Win key shouldn't be a problem.  Whether it would be made is a different question.  When it come to pass, remind me.

[litster]

Plu Dimensions:
size of PCB 122 * 345 mm , one or 2 mm more would not be a problem
size of plate 128 * 349 mm, the 128 should be rather precise cut

distance between:
ESC and F1: 38 mm
F9 to Pause/Break : 119 mm
ESC and Pause/Break : 328.5 mm
Pause/Break and Right Arrow: 104 mm
Distance between all the holes on the PCB for the supporting posts on the bottom of the keyboard case

I measuerd all holes from the middle of the hole.
All upper holes have the distance of 22.5mm from the upper edge of the PCB.
The distances of the upper 3 holes from left (CapsLock side) to the right side are:
left edge to 1st hole: 56mm, 1st hole to 2nd hole: 115.5mm, 2nd hole to the 3rd hole: 115.5mm, 3rd hole to the right edge: 58.5mm.

Lower right (CapsLock Side) hole: 13mm to the bottom edge, 58.5mm to the right edge.
Lower left hole: 36mm to the left edge, 37.5mm to the bottom edge.

(Attachment Link) 33926[/ATTACH]

Thanks Dux!  I still need to match your measurements with my Filco case, but they sound about the same as Filco.  You picture helps too.  PLU has its controller under the PCB, which could be a problem.  The cable connector seems to be at the same location as Filco.  The plate also has its top and bottom bend down, just like Filco's.

Do you have a Filco that you can compare your PLU to?  Thanks.

[dux]

Do you have a Filco that you can compare your PLU to?  Thanks.

I dont't but would do more measurings or pictures as long my plu is open (but I would like to put it together again rather soon:).

btw why post editor works only in safari? is it only me?

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 33986[/ATTACH]

PLU has its controller under the PCB, which could be a problem  

why do you think that?

[TheProfosist]

Im glad that we are getting somewhere with the PLU case. I have a few lined up if they end up matching.

If anyone cares I finally updated my layout ow that the ISO like left shift is possible http://tinyurl.com/d4geptb .

[dorkvader]

*If* the acrylic case come together, creating a design for ANSI with no Win key shouldn't be a problem.  Whether it would be made is a different question.  When it come to pass, remind me.

If I get a case, I'd be fine sanding out the extra lines for the 7bit layout.

[litster]

I am still working on the case.  I need some help.  I am looking through so of the Korean keyboards, and I wonder if anyone knows what kind of nuts and bolts are these?  And if these nuts and bolts could be obtained in the USA?  Thanks.

http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/index.php?mid=photo&page=2&document_srl=3253909

Click the top of the images to zoom in.

[kps]

I am looking through so of the Korean keyboards, and I wonder if anyone knows what kind of nuts and bolts are these?  And if these nuts and bolts could be obtained in the USA?

In the US they're called “cap screws” or more specifically “hex cap screws” (or bolts), and are available anywhere that sells fasteners.

[kaiserreich]

They look like allen headed bolts to me.
a.k.a hex headed screws

[litster]

OK, I think I know how they do it.  The top two layers and the bottom two layers are glued together, and the top most and the bottom most layer have bigger holes so the nuts are sunk into the first layer, and the second layer has just small holes for screws to go through.

Good pictures here: http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/index.php?mid=photo&page=4&document_srl=3239585

[alaricljs]

BTW - some of those nuts are normal and some are acorn lock nuts.  The lock part is a disk of nylon jammed in the nut that the threads of the screw are driven through and it holds the nut against vibration.

[litster]

Thanks alaricljs.  Acorn lock nuts are much thicker, right?

[alaricljs]

Yeah, you have a standard thickness hex portion and then a bulbous protrusion out one end that holds the plastic, makes it about double-thick.

[litster]

I should be able to find these acorn lock nuts on mcmaster.com?  I will need to get some to incorporate them to the design.

[alaricljs]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#hex-locknuts/=f8wcdc   - Just find the cheapest version, but there are thin ones available if you need that

[litster]

I might have solved the thickness problem.  If you can't make a slope, make steps instead.  This case is going to be junked and I will have to make a new one.  This one has so many test holes in it, but it is a worthy prototype.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34174[/ATTACH]
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