Author Topic: Keycon 2025 (Archive)  (Read 5818 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mgsickler

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 853
Keycon 2025 (Archive)
« on: Wed, 29 May 2024, 15:00:35 »
First of all, I want to extend a heartfelt thank you to everyone who attended Keycon 2024 in Salt Lake City. It was a significant undertaking, but I believe it went exceptionally well. To all the breakout session speakersóyou were fantastic. And to the sponsorsóyour financial support was invaluable!

Keycon Long Term

We want to share our long-term vision for Keycon. In a world with numerous meetups that come in all sizes, we donít want Keycon to be just another meetup. If it were, it wouldnít offer anything unique. We want Keycon to provide opportunities and experiences beyond just gathering together.

This year, we had some exciting events, such as Ryan Norbauerís engineering talk about the quest for perfect stabilizers and Kudos (GAF) making a surprise comeback. In 2025, attendees will have the opportunity to see how one of the main components we celebrate is made, which we think is pretty cool.

KeyCon 2025

Next year, Keycon will take place in Germany, near GMKís headquarters. While the exact date and city are yet to be confirmed, it will be close to the end of June. GMK will be instrumental in finding a venue and will host a limited-attendance GMK Experience breakout session, offering a factory tour!

Why Germany/GMK?

I have a great relationship with GMK, speaking with them almost daily. Over time, Iíve gotten to know them well and consider them friends. When they attended Keycon 2024, we discussed how amazing it would be if Keycon went international and how beneficial it could be for the community to tour the facilities of a manufacturer integral to our hobby.

GMK is excited to host the community and thank them in this unique way. Ultimately, we are thrilled that part of the community will get a behind-the-scenes look at one of the original manufacturers.

Without GMK, our hobby wouldn't be what it is today. They took a bold step by transforming a traditionally large-scale industrial process into small, highly-customized runs for enthusiasts. Their significant investment in money and effort made these runs more customizable and efficient. This dedication laid the foundation for the idea that your keyboard can truly reflect your personal style. Chances are, if you look down at your keyboard right now, it features a GMK set or artisans with colorways inspired by their keycaps.

Is GMK taking over Keycon? Did GMK force you to do this?

No, not at all. Keycon will continue to be run and managed by NovelKeys, primarily Riley and me. We have already planned for Keycon 2026 to be back in the United States, possibly in Tampa.

Shouldn't Keycon be a US-only event?

Given that Keycon is a Geekhack-based event, I donít think so. Our community is global, and making Keycon international allows many more people to attend who otherwise couldnít.

Is this taking the place of Mechanicon?

No. We do not intend for this to interfere with or take away from Mechanicon. We are coordinating with the Mechanicon organizers to ensure there are no conflicts.

Moving Forward

Big changes require adjustments and sometimes limit who can attend and where events are held. One yearís experience may not resonate with you, but the next one might. By providing these unique experiences, itís our hope that when you do attend, it will be unforgettable.
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 June 2024, 16:21:02 by HoffmanMyster »

Offline HubertThemad

  • * St. Jude Supporter
  • Posts: 89
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 29 May 2024, 15:05:42 »
Let's gooooo! It looked like KeyCon 2024 was super fun, and I think it's going to be awesome that 2025 will be in Germany!

Appreciate all the work everyone put into hosting KeyCon in 2024, be it setting up KeyCon, reaching out to vendors, and managing logistics

Offline jacobsmirror

  • Posts: 121
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 29 May 2024, 15:56:05 »
SLC was a hit! Thanks for carrying the torch (and all the work that goes on with it). So happy to see the event continuing in new and interesting ways!

Offline Rob27shred

  • Posts: 1540
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Insane in the Membrane! 👻
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 29 May 2024, 16:05:45 »
Keycon 2025 in Germany sounds like a great ideal to me! I've wanted to visit the EU for quite a long time now & this might just be the excuse I need to actually do it! Keep up the awesome work Mike!

Offline Kokaloo

  • Posts: 1037
  • Location: Las Vegas
  • 🤘(ē ω ē)🤙
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 00:28:45 »
so excited for keycon 2026

Offline azhdar

  • Praise the AZERTY god
  • Posts: 2438
  • Location: France
  • 65% Enlightened
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 06:42:12 »
Hopefully I can make it there
Azerty Propagandiste

Offline farlig

  • * St. Jude Supporter
  • Posts: 14
  • Location: Denmark
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 06:43:33 »
Awesome to see Keycon going international! I was really sad to miss out on Keycon 2024, so I canít wait to attend Keycon 2025.
Collection: Singakbd x TGR Unikorn R2.2 Pewter Grey, JJW Cloudline Red WKL, Noxary Valhalla Green, Keychron Q1 Black

Offline Shell058

  • Posts: 55
  • sheep sheep sheep
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 08:12:26 »
While I had a great time at KeyCon SLC and thought NovelKeys did a great job for their first time organizing, I have to say I'm disappointed to hear about some of these changes. I agree that having the opportunity to tour GMK's factory is awesome, and understand that organizing and hosting such a large event is a massive undertaking, but unilaterally choosing the location of the meetup without consulting the community leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Traveling internationally will not be feasible for many of the US community members, and we'll be left with no large "community wide" meetup for the year. After going five years between the last two KeyCons it truly hurts me to think about not having the opportunity to meet up with so many of my dear friends at once for all of 2025. At the very least I'd like to see a "KeyCon EU" (or just combine with Mechanicon) and "KeyCon NA", preferably with the opportunity for possible attendees to have input on the location(s) chosen.

Additionally, the mention of Keycon 2026 being "possibly in Tampa" is not only another disappointing failure to allow the community to have input on location, but is worrying to me as a visibly LGBTQ+ person. Florida is actively hostile to queer people, and I'm sure there are other keyboard enthusiasts who would share my legitimate concerns about attending a meetup there. Again, I'd prefer to see community input/voting on the location, but if that's not an option I urge you to reconsider hosting KeyCon in a location that would be alienating to an already marginalized segment of our group.

In my view, KeyCon has always been a "for the community, by the community" sort of meetup, and I know many were worried that NovelKeys taking over would change that vibe. It's very unfortunate that it seems they may have been right.

Offline xLeHoy

  • Posts: 42
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 08:14:33 »
 I like the idea of going international but since the hobby is really community driven there should've been some kind of discussion or vote beforehand imo.

Offline Rhienfo

  • Posts: 718
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
  • Why is everything I want here so expensive :(
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 08:28:22 »
While I had a great time at KeyCon SLC and thought NovelKeys did a great job for their first time organizing, I have to say I'm disappointed to hear about some of these changes. I agree that having the opportunity to tour GMK's factory is awesome, and understand that organizing and hosting such a large event is a massive undertaking, but unilaterally choosing the location of the meetup without consulting the community leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

Traveling internationally will not be feasible for many of the US community members, and we'll be left with no large "community wide" meetup for the year. After going five years between the last two KeyCons it truly hurts me to think about not having the opportunity to meet up with so many of my dear friends at once for all of 2025. At the very least I'd like to see a "KeyCon EU" (or just combine with Mechanicon) and "KeyCon NA", preferably with the opportunity for possible attendees to have input on the location(s) chosen.

Additionally, the mention of Keycon 2026 being "possibly in Tampa" is not only another disappointing failure to allow the community to have input on location, but is worrying to me as a visibly LGBTQ+ person. Florida is actively hostile to queer people, and I'm sure there are other keyboard enthusiasts who would share my legitimate concerns about attending a meetup there. Again, I'd prefer to see community input/voting on the location, but if that's not an option I urge you to reconsider hosting KeyCon in a location that would be alienating to an already marginalized segment of our group.

In my view, KeyCon has always been a "for the community, by the community" sort of meetup, and I know many were worried that NovelKeys taking over would change that vibe. It's very unfortunate that it seems they may have been right.

This post sums up my thoughts as well.
keyboard collection - fjell
More
Cherry Blacks - Unlubed - Filmed and springswapped with tx 55g mediums - Alu Plate
| hhkb bt
More
lubed with tribosys 3203
| m0115
More
bad orange alps lol

Offline TypicalOranges

  • Posts: 35
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 08:37:06 »


Shouldn't Keycon be a US-only event?

Given that Keycon is a Geekhack-based event, I donít think so. Our community is global, and making Keycon international allows many more people to attend who otherwise couldnít.


Is this really true anymore? You should be honest and just say it's an NK-based event now. Y'all have changed everything about how it is run.

Offline iamtootallforthis

  • Something a lot Funnier
  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 4742
  • Location: West Palm Beach, FL
  • I like green stuffs.
    • WTB/WTTF Thread
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 09:10:25 »


Shouldn't Keycon be a US-only event?

Given that Keycon is a Geekhack-based event, I donít think so. Our community is global, and making Keycon international allows many more people to attend who otherwise couldnít.


Is this really true anymore? You should be honest and just say it's an NK-based event now. Y'all have changed everything about how it is run.

Considering it's no longer up to a community vote I find it hard to call it geekhack based event.

Offline LightningXI

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 4294
  • Location: New York
  • PPD
    • ArtisanMacro
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 09:26:35 »
As much as I too appreciate the sentiment of global inclusion, I agree wholly with the points brought up by shell058 and echoed by the others. Not having a community vote is a nail in the coffin for a "geekhack-based" event, but more importantly, I believe that the better compromise would indeed have been to organize a large event that covers the European continent as well as one that still is for the US/NA-based community, at a location that is determined by the community as well.

One may argue in contrary that there are other large events to attend, like regional events (SMK, NorCal, SoCal, NYC) or even vendor-sponsored events ("The Keyboard Meetup" by NK, CK's Providence meet, Mode Designs in Boston), etc, but these, again, carry none of the community's ability to have a choice on where and when to meet.

It's sad to me that the name of Keycon won't carry the same meaning it has for many of us, especially those here active on geekhack, as these decisions are made on the organizing end without the community's input.


Offline Joey Quinn

  • Posts: 4544
  • Location: Houghton
  • "..."
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 09:27:36 »


Shouldn't Keycon be a US-only event?

Given that Keycon is a Geekhack-based event, I donít think so. Our community is global, and making Keycon international allows many more people to attend who otherwise couldnít.


Is this really true anymore? You should be honest and just say it's an NK-based event now. Y'all have changed everything about how it is run.

Considering it's no longer up to a community vote I find it hard to call it geekhack based event.

As much fun as SLC was and going to Germany sounds I agree, this doesn't feel like a geekhack event anymore.
People in the 1980s, in general, were clearly just better than we are now in every measurable way.

The dumber the reason the more it must be done

Offline jacobsmirror

  • Posts: 121
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 09:31:06 »


Shouldn't Keycon be a US-only event?

Given that Keycon is a Geekhack-based event, I donít think so. Our community is global, and making Keycon international allows many more people to attend who otherwise couldnít.


Is this really true anymore? You should be honest and just say it's an NK-based event now. Y'all have changed everything about how it is run.

As someone who's pretty involved with the recent history of KeyCon, and put a good amount of work into building up the event over the last few years, I wanted to weigh in. The event has evolved into something that is bigger and more complex to be handled by a fluctuating cast of community members and volunteers. You simply cannot run an event that'll pull at a minimum of 400 people without some serious capital, planning, time, and effort. And as I thought about the future of the event, it started to become very clear that help was needed, and I approached Mike (and others, mind you) about the possibility of taking over KeyCon. What the event needs is someone who has history with the community who will be around for years, the resources and experience to pull off large events, and the access to relationships with companies and makers. NK checks all those boxes. They understand the history of KeyCon, have a heart to carry it on as an event where the community can come together, but they also have the resources to provide new experiences that a typical meetup runner would not have access. Also, they won't say this, but meetups aren't a money-making endeavor, and are almost always run at a loss (not even accounting for time spent and opportunity cost).

Is KeyCon something different than it has been? Yeah, it's become a monster of an event. And with that, you can't always bend that amount of effort to the changing tastes of community opinion. I think the event is in good hands, and I trust Mike and his team to run great meetups that pull widely from the community both in the US and abroad.

Offline SeedyOne

  • Posts: 483
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 09:42:36 »
Unilaterally deciding something so extreme with zero community input feels like a slap in the face and a clear misstep after a successful return to Keycon. The very first thing you do after a pandemic and years without Keycon is complicate the entire thing and alienate (most) of those that helped it return to glory.

I wish I could be as eloquent as others have been above but this is idiocy and I almost hope it was driven by other factors because common sense wasn't one of them.

Offline TypicalOranges

  • Posts: 35
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 11:12:30 »


Shouldn't Keycon be a US-only event?

Given that Keycon is a Geekhack-based event, I donít think so. Our community is global, and making Keycon international allows many more people to attend who otherwise couldnít.


Is this really true anymore? You should be honest and just say it's an NK-based event now. Y'all have changed everything about how it is run.

As someone who's pretty involved with the recent history of KeyCon, and put a good amount of work into building up the event over the last few years, I wanted to weigh in. The event has evolved into something that is bigger and more complex to be handled by a fluctuating cast of community members and volunteers. You simply cannot run an event that'll pull at a minimum of 400 people without some serious capital, planning, time, and effort. And as I thought about the future of the event, it started to become very clear that help was needed, and I approached Mike (and others, mind you) about the possibility of taking over KeyCon. What the event needs is someone who has history with the community who will be around for years, the resources and experience to pull off large events, and the access to relationships with companies and makers. NK checks all those boxes. They understand the history of KeyCon, have a heart to carry it on as an event where the community can come together, but they also have the resources to provide new experiences that a typical meetup runner would not have access. Also, they won't say this, but meetups aren't a money-making endeavor, and are almost always run at a loss (not even accounting for time spent and opportunity cost).

Is KeyCon something different than it has been? Yeah, it's become a monster of an event. And with that, you can't always bend that amount of effort to the changing tastes of community opinion. I think the event is in good hands, and I trust Mike and his team to run great meetups that pull widely from the community both in the US and abroad.

I totally get that and largely understand why the decisions were made the way they were. The point of my post wasn't to be snarky. I just think a lot of the controversy would be solved if we stopped calling it a GH-based event under the pretense that it is still a community driven event.

I think some of the verbiage from the NK team hasn't be clear on that and I would say some of the communication (like what I highlighted here) is kind of not very honest about how much is changing about how the events are run. A simple post beginning like, "Hey guys, KeyCon changed because it had to..." from the NK team would go a long way and lead to less negative sentiment.

I think SLC looked incredible and was really well done and I'm sure Germany will be good, too.
« Last Edit: Thu, 30 May 2024, 11:16:13 by TypicalOranges »

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14369
    • Tactile Zine
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 11:32:01 »
Just wanted to chime in to agree with what LightningXI, iamtootallforthis, shell058, TypicalOranges, JoeyQuinn and others have said. This isn't a GH based community event anymore if NK unilaterally gets to make all the decisions. I'd personally rather see a smaller meetup that is continuing to be a GH community even if the even will continue using the Keycon name and legacy.

Otherwise, it's just another NK meetup. That's 100% fine if NK wants to have a 2nd meetup during the year and I'm excited for the chance to tour GMK. But it's not a geekhack event anymore if this is how it's being run. So the title and intent are the issue, not the event.

Also yes, thank you for organizing and putting all the hardwork into previous Keycons jacobsmirror and NK.

Offline jacobsmirror

  • Posts: 121
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 12:08:31 »
Well, this is definitely getting tangential to the post, but for the sake of clarity, I have some questions. I'm a bit confused on what makes a GH community driven event, as opposed to a typical local meetup or a larger meetup run by NK. Even from the time I ran Pittsburgh, most of the interest for the event wasn't driven from GH, but at the time Reddit and Slack, and now, mostly Discord. Sure, the original post is on GH and the cross posted elsewhere, and we all voted on an arbitrary set of locations that the organizers vetted and weighed, but other than that, what input from the broader community was required to make it "GH community driven?" Furthermore, even in this last SLC meetup which was completely run by NK, many of you attended, had tables, and even spoke on panels that you helped organize. So I'm failing to see how it was any different than any other KeyCon.

And maybe some of y'all are putting on nostalgic glasses and longing for a time years past, and want a smaller more intimate setting for a meetup. Nobody is stopping your from organizing that. But I would argue, that isn't the direction of what KeyCon is either, as that's quite exclusive.

From my perspective as someone who's run a few meetups (KeyCon or otherwise), what makes KeyCon different than all the other meetups is that it pulls people from earlier in the hobby, more vendors, and it travels. The vibe is chill, and there's usually a bar. Other than that, it's not really that different than any other meetup. My hope was to make it as big as possible, as open and accepting and accessible to the community as possible, and offer access to vendors and experiences that wouldn't happen at smaller meetups. Personally, I don't think that scaling KeyCon up past what it was in NYC or going to be in Denver is feasible for a loose group of community members, hence NK.

Now, KeyCon will absolutely be larger and different than years past, and I hope that it continues to grow and be the event that people put at the top of their list to attend every year. That said, the community isn't the same as it was in the early 2010s, and neither should KeyCon. What makes KeyCon is all of us attending. And NK isn't here on some power trip trying to control things. They're also a group of people who are part of the community and are trying to create an event where everyone can come together. They're also doing it at a loss. So yeah, it's different, but it could be really cool if y'all decided to play along.

Offline Shell058

  • Posts: 55
  • sheep sheep sheep
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 12:55:29 »
I'm certainly not opposed to KeyCon growing and changing, or to it being organized by NK. I don't think they're on a power trip, but I do think they may not understand how important the "community voted location" was to many of us. Even if the list of options was curated by the organizer, even if the option I personally voted for didn't win, whichever platform the votes came from, being able to have input and know that the location was chosen by a majority of the community made it feel worth attending.

The way I see it, the reason the event has been able to consistently draw vendors and "people from earlier in the hobby" is because we were able to vote on locations and/or dates that worked for our personal lives. It's much easier to swing a long weekend a few states away than it is to plan, pay for, and take time off to travel internationally.

I understand that this same argument could be made by those who live outside the US, and again perhaps there could be an EU/US KeyCon, but the important part is the "getting community input" and I think that's where a lot of us are feeling like this is not the same event. As I recall, SLC was chosen as the location because "it's NK's first year and we want it to be easier logistically" which was perfectly reasonable, and the announcement post for KeyCon 2024 even states "If all goes well, we would love to bring back location voting in some aspect."

I appreciate all of the work that has been put in to every KeyCon over the years, and I would love to see it continue to grow with the community. No location or date is going to work for everyone, but if what makes KeyCon is all of us attending, it would certainly seem prudent to ensure that as many of us as possible are able to attend.

Offline Dennyroxsox

  • Posts: 98
  • a.k.a. Lollipopsaurus
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 14:31:15 »
Can we go back to voting on locations? I understand how fractured communication is for the community in 2024, but I think we can recapture a lot of the magic by letting the people feel like they have some say in the location. I appreciate the initiative, and definitely understand wanting to make things simple and straightforward, but I think what makes this feel like a community event is more involvement from the community.

I think my issue really is the location for 2025. If GMK wants to host, that's amazing, and I understand, but it feels like it's too far for me to personally travel just for a meetup. Call it Keycon, call it Keycon EU, I'm not offended. I don't attend the existing EU meetups, so from that perspective, this is no different than another EU meetup in my eyes. What does change this is the potential of a GMK tour.

I would ask you do a very public IC of sorts for an event in Germany, especially if you're telling people there will be a limited attendance GMK tour. I would guess there is a lot of price sensitivity relative to whether or not they would attend the tour. If I had to guess, many people from the US would shell out the money to go to Germany if and only if they have a spot on that tour. That isn't even getting to how many of our EU friends would surely want to attend. It'll be at least $1000 for a flight, and adding in hotel, transportation, food, etc. This is pricey. A trip to Utah for the weekend would be half the price simply because of the plane tickets.

Offline mgsickler

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 853
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 15:09:39 »
Been reading through all the replies and just have a couple things to note.

Location voting - this is something that could possibly come back in the future. For now, we really need familiarity or boots on the ground with wherever the location ends up being. With talking to GMK at Keycon 2024 - it was too good of an opportunity to pass up. I expressed it in the above, but it just makes sense from a lot of different perspectives. Is international travel difficult, and sometimes more expensive? Absolutely, and I am not trying to dismiss that. Its one of the main reasons we are talking about it now.

Limited factory tour - This is absolutely a good point and is why we will have tickets up for sale well in advance. That way people can plan and decide if they wanted to attend based on that.

There definitely seems to be a subset of artisan enthusiasts here that would like to see something happen in the US instead of Germany. I think there is a great opportunity for this group to plan a smaller event (ArtisanCon TM) for 2025. I definitely loved to see everyone in SLC, and get that its more challenging to make it to Germany. My suggestion is to go for it! Plan an event with your friends here and make it happen.

Offline Rob27shred

  • Posts: 1540
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Insane in the Membrane! 👻
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 30 May 2024, 15:25:52 »
Honestly I get where you guys that have been around even longer than I have are coming from, but personally I think we're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Keycon has been US exclusive since it began AFAIK (I got into the hobby late 2015) so I feel it's just fine to let the EU have one. I mean everything us US based people are worried about with it being in Germany is what EU based people have had to contend with if they wanted attend in all the previous years. I do agree on the point that with Mike & NK taking the reigns it does make it a much less a GH based event, but we all full well know that if there one vendor in the community that will do right by the Keycon ethos & community it is Mike. Really instead of making a big deal about this I think we should give Mike a chance to realize his vision of what Keycon will be in the future. As I fully agree with Jacob that Keycon has grown well beyond being just a GH based event & grown well beyond something that can be properly accomplished without the working relationships a great vendor like NK has. I for one am really excited from what I have heard of Mike's plans to make Keycon a bigger & better event for all of us.

All that said, let's let the man cook. There is nothing stopping us from organizing a US based, GH driven national meetup more in line with the Keycons of pre pandemic times. I would love to see something like that happen as well & would be more than happy to help it come to fruition if the ideal proves popular enough to do. In fact that seems the most sensible route to take IMO. Let Keycon keep growing to truly be a one of kind yearly event that makes every effort to give community members worldwide a chance to attend one every few years. Then start a new strictly GH driven spiritual successor to Keycon that stays within the capabilities of being organized by those of here that are willing to take the task on. If things were to go that way I'd see it as a win win really. The community gets another bigger meetup every year & the new GH driven meetup can go back to Keycons roots being a experience closer to what the older Keycons were like. I mean we can look at this development in Keycon in two vastly different ways. Negatively like we have been reacting here & act like we're losing something. Or positively & take the opportunity to let Keycon keep growing bigger/better while adding another US based national meetup to our calendar. At least that's my two cents on the more negative reaction some have had to this post.

Offline Eastji

  • Posts: 25
  • draw 2 cards
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 31 May 2024, 05:36:22 »
Can we get a cherry factory tour in 2026 so everyone can learn how to make switches that don't crack stems?

Offline iamtootallforthis

  • Something a lot Funnier
  • * Global Moderator
  • Posts: 4742
  • Location: West Palm Beach, FL
  • I like green stuffs.
    • WTB/WTTF Thread
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #24 on: Fri, 31 May 2024, 08:23:52 »
Can we get a cherry factory tour in 2026 so everyone can learn how to make switches that don't crack stems?

Except Cherry switched have cracked stems. Clears and both tactile and linear grays cracked stems

Offline 3tonjack

  • Posts: 16
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 01 June 2024, 23:33:31 »
My two cents as a community member who cares above all about the community. 

A meet, much less an annual convention for a niche hobby should have four guiding principles, in my opinion. 

Community building
Showcasing great examples/collections of keyboards, artisans and related items
Good entertainment options
Promotion of the hobby

I'd like to hear how the decision to move Keycon 25 to Europe benefits the members of Geekhack and the other members of the various communities that Geekhack has seeded. 

Keycon is in my perception an event that happened thanks to key community members coming forward and taking some input from the larger community. All the love to JM, Hoff and everyone who organized them in the past.  This year the reasoning for SLC was given and everyone rolled with that and was excited to see Keycon back.  The event was great this year but this isn't about how this year went, it's how incredibly poorly this has been communicated and how tone deaf it feels to me as a member of the community.   Announcing on the NK stream a unilateral decision to move an event that had always been held in the US to Germany.  Oh and maybe not a cool place with stuff to do like Frankfurt but the middle of nowhere out by GMK?  Sounds great for NK and the GMK relationship. 

Oh and talking about Tampa 2026, man if there isn't any real dialogue with the community you can do it wherever you like.  The community will serve it's own needs. 

« Last Edit: Sat, 01 June 2024, 23:36:55 by 3tonjack »

Offline 3tonjack

  • Posts: 16
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 01 June 2024, 23:49:19 »
Been reading through all the replies and just have a couple things to note.

There definitely seems to be a subset of artisan enthusiasts here that would like to see something happen in the US instead of Germany. I think there is a great opportunity for this group to plan a smaller event (ArtisanCon TM) for 2025. I definitely loved to see everyone in SLC, and get that its more challenging to make it to Germany. My suggestion is to go for it! Plan an event with your friends here and make it happen.

Nice of you to be so ready to separate out the community. 

Offline SeedyOne

  • Posts: 483
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 02 June 2024, 02:40:26 »
Honestly I get where you guys that have been around even longer than I have are coming from, but personally I think we're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Keycon has been US exclusive since it began AFAIK (I got into the hobby late 2015) so I feel it's just fine to let the EU have one. I mean everything us US based people are worried about with it being in Germany is what EU based people have had to contend with if they wanted attend in all the previous years.

I might have agreed with you prior to the response above, but specifically marginalizing a subset of the hobby doesn't instill confidence. At best, it implies they aren't important or numbered enough to matter and can "go do their own thing", which is quite tone deaf when those particular folks are often the deepest into the hobby, spending as much on a single accessory as an entire custom KB. SO yeah, that molehill is starting to look awfully steep...

Offline DJSwayde

  • Posts: 223
  • Location: Illinois
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 02 June 2024, 07:56:02 »
Been reading through all the replies and just have a couple things to note.

Location voting - this is something that could possibly come back in the future. For now, we really need familiarity or boots on the ground with wherever the location ends up being. With talking to GMK at Keycon 2024 - it was too good of an opportunity to pass up. I expressed it in the above, but it just makes sense from a lot of different perspectives. Is international travel difficult, and sometimes more expensive? Absolutely, and I am not trying to dismiss that. Its one of the main reasons we are talking about it now.

Limited factory tour - This is absolutely a good point and is why we will have tickets up for sale well in advance. That way people can plan and decide if they wanted to attend based on that.

There definitely seems to be a subset of artisan enthusiasts here that would like to see something happen in the US instead of Germany. I think there is a great opportunity for this group to plan a smaller event (ArtisanCon TM) for 2025. I definitely loved to see everyone in SLC, and get that its more challenging to make it to Germany. My suggestion is to go for it! Plan an event with your friends here and make it happen.

How do you genuinely think it's just "artisan enthusiasts" that are affected by this, because they're the most vocal? Coming from someone who is not an artisan enthusiast and speaking about this with many other "non-artisan enthusiasts", the general consensus is that we are rather peeved that there was no desire for input from the community whatsoever. Just because some of us are not vendors doesn't make us less important. Y'all can name your Germany meetup "NovelKeysCon" or something and we can find another entity to plan Keycon elsewhere (wherever the community wants it).
« Last Edit: Sun, 02 June 2024, 10:54:04 by DJSwayde »
Mains: Bakers CL64 (silver)   |   CannonKeys Bakeneko60 (black)   |   Carolina Mech Palmetto (black)   |   LSJ Ares (silver)   |   LZ CLS h (silver)   |   Monokei Kei R1 (standard red, HHKB)   |   PFU Limited HHKB Pro 1 (PD-KB300BN)   |   PFU Limited HHKB Pro 2 (PD-KB400B)   |   PFU Limited HHKB Pro 2 Type-S (PD-KB400WS)   |   SINGAKBD x TGR Unikorn R1 (black)   |   Weaston GSKT-00 R1 (gray [re-anodized silver, HHKB])   |   Weaston GSKT-00-Z (silver, AEK HHKB)

Alps: Apple Extended Keyboard II (M3501, Taiwanese)   |   Apple Standard Keyboard (M0116, US)   |   Dell AT101 (GYI3PVAT101, US)    |   IBM Multistation 5556-001 (Chinese)   |   IBM P70 (ANSI-US, 06-89)   |   MET Micro Officer 6000 (R315-00)   |   SGI AT-101 "Beige"   |   Zenith Data Systems TurbosPORT 386
Cherry: G80-3000LPCXY-2 #1   |   G80-3000LPCXY-2 #2   |   G80-3485LWNUS #1 (Das Keyboard II)   |   G80-3485LWNUS #2 (Das Keyboard II)   |   G81-1281SAW (Zenith Data Systems)   |   G81-3000SAT   |   G81-3090SAQ (Schneider)   |   G81-3100SEBUS
Topre: PFU Limited HHKB Blank (charcoal [PD-KB300BN])   |   PFU Limited HHKB Printed (charcoal [PD-KB400B])   |   PFU Limited HHKB Printed (gray [PD-KB400WS])   |   Realforce 91UDK-G (NG02B0)   |   Realforce 103UB (SE42B0)   |   Realforce Taiwanese kit (dark gray)   |   Sony BKE-9400A   |   Sony MKS-8050


Collection

Offline CPTBadAss

  • Woke up like this
  • Posts: 14369
    • Tactile Zine
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 02 June 2024, 09:40:35 »
Been reading through all the replies and just have a couple things to note.

There definitely seems to be a subset of artisan enthusiasts here that would like to see something happen in the US instead of Germany. I think there is a great opportunity for this group to plan a smaller event (ArtisanCon TM) for 2025. I definitely loved to see everyone in SLC, and get that its more challenging to make it to Germany. My suggestion is to go for it! Plan an event with your friends here and make it happen.

Nice of you to be so ready to separate out the community. 

Agreed with 3tonjack. Last time I checked being into artisans was just as much a part of the community as any other subinterest like vintage, switches, keyboards, or keysets. I'm glad that parts of the community can immediately be discarded when it's not convenient...

I also don't think that the location is the issue. It's impossible to pick one location that will make everyone happy unfortunately. I think the intent and actions are. If you're going to use the Keycon name, then it should be community driven. Not "it's in good hands with NK" and Mike and his team can just do whatever without even posting an IC here on GH. Honestly if it was called "NK and GMK con" I would have no issues. You're taking our event for your own.

Offline Puddsy

  • nice
  • * Elated Elder
  • Posts: 12278
  • Location: RSTLN E
  • "Do you shovel to survive, or survive to shovel?"
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 02 June 2024, 13:16:25 »
happy to go to germany but i draw the line at florida, just have it in atlanta if you want it to be in the south

flying internationally with keyboards is a nightmare but there are worse things. it frankly wouldn't be much more expensive for me to get to germany from the east coast than it would be for me to get to like, san francisco
QFR | MJ2 TKL | "Bulgogiboard" (Keycon 104) | ctrl.alt x GON 60% | TGR Alice | Mira SE #29 | Mira SE #34 | Revo One | z | Keycult No. 1 | First CW87 prototype | Mech27v1 | Camp C225 | Duck Orion V1 | LZ CLS sxh | Geon Frog TKL | Hiney TKL One | Geon Glare TKL



"Everything is worse, but in a barely perceptible and indefinable way" -dollartacos, after I came back from a break | "Is Linkshine our Nixon?" -NAV | "Puddsy is the Puddsy of keebs" -ns90

Offline Rob27shred

  • Posts: 1540
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Insane in the Membrane! 👻
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #31 on: Sun, 02 June 2024, 14:17:26 »
Honestly I get where you guys that have been around even longer than I have are coming from, but personally I think we're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Keycon has been US exclusive since it began AFAIK (I got into the hobby late 2015) so I feel it's just fine to let the EU have one. I mean everything us US based people are worried about with it being in Germany is what EU based people have had to contend with if they wanted attend in all the previous years.

I might have agreed with you prior to the response above, but specifically marginalizing a subset of the hobby doesn't instill confidence. At best, it implies they aren't important or numbered enough to matter and can "go do their own thing", which is quite tone deaf when those particular folks are often the deepest into the hobby, spending as much on a single accessory as an entire custom KB. SO yeah, that molehill is starting to look awfully steep...

Who am I marginalizing? I was just pointing out that (at the time of my post) most of the opinions against this change were coming from very OG community members & I really don't see where you got me implying for them to "do their own thing" when I plainly stated that I'd love to be part of the planning & execution of US based, GH/community driven meetup in lieu of Keycon next year. As far as the spending thing goes, first off it doesn't matter to me how much someone spends, if they are into custom keyboards they are part of the community. 2nd off if you could see the scars my bank account has gotten from the hobby over the years you would easily count me in as one of the subset of people you are saying I am marginalizing.

Anyways this is not something I want to debate about. If it came off as I was saying the OG members opinion doesn't matter & they can go do their own thing, I apologize for that since that is definitely not what I was shooting for. I really just wanted to point out that while Keycon undoubtedly started as a GH based community driven event, I feel it has grown beyond that to become the defacto biggest & best meetup for the whole community. With that I think it would be better handled by someone who has lines of communication & relationships with most if not all the bigger companies that supply our wares & the vendors who sell them. I also feel that if it is going that way it shouldn't be constrained to being a strictly US based event. Finally if that is the future of Keycon that opens up the possibility of making a new yearly meetup that is more in line with Keycons of the past. Really I'm just trying to present the possibility of turning this change in Keycon into a positive thing for everyone, instead of being resistant to the change.
« Last Edit: Sun, 02 June 2024, 15:23:53 by Rob27shred »

Offline Binge

  • Island of Sandy Beaches
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 3270
  • Location: Binge HaŁs
  • With Gentle Time. I Feel Very Nice.
    • Hunger Work Studio
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 02 June 2024, 14:32:53 »
Wish I could make it to an event in Germany.  There's no way to prepare for that in a year unless things change significantly for what I do.  Thanks so much for SLC and for choosing such an interesting venue for 2025.  Best of luck.
60% keyboards, 100% of the time.

"What the hell Jimmy?!  It was ruined before you even put it up there with your decrepit fingers."

Offline SeedyOne

  • Posts: 483
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #33 on: Sun, 02 June 2024, 16:43:58 »
Who am I marginalizing? I was just pointing out that....

You weren't, I was talking about the NK response literally above your post.

Offline Rob27shred

  • Posts: 1540
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • Insane in the Membrane! 👻
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #34 on: Sun, 02 June 2024, 16:51:34 »
Who am I marginalizing? I was just pointing out that....

You weren't, I was talking about the NK response literally above your post.

My bad, I thought you were responding to my post specifically.

Offline mgsickler

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 853
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 03 June 2024, 10:49:02 »
Please check out the poll that just went up to vote on Keycon 2025.

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=123086.0

Offline Sifo

  • Alter
  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 7492
  • Location: #GOLDSPRINGS, #LEGITBALLIN
  • Illustrious
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 03 June 2024, 11:10:57 »
I'm gonna abstain from voting simply because I probably won't be able to attend next year anyway. I would love to go back to a KeyCon since it's been literally 11 years since I last went but I do want to bring up the fact that GMK appears to be in a somewhat middle of nowhere location, no? If it was like, Berlin I'd be able to swing it and ask my company to send me out or something since we have an office there. Even any of the major cities for international travelers would be nice.

Also +1 for Atlanta 2026 :)
I love Elzy

Offline noahf

  • Posts: 114
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 03 June 2024, 14:07:46 »
happy to go to germany but i draw the line at florida, just have it in atlanta if you want it to be in the south

flying internationally with keyboards is a nightmare but there are worse things. it frankly wouldn't be much more expensive for me to get to germany from the east coast than it would be for me to get to like, san francisco

Hate to do it but I agree with Puddsy. Nah to Florida!

Offline dededecline

  • Posts: 471
  • Location: Seattle, WA
    • Linktree
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 06 June 2024, 12:25:02 »
happy to go to germany but i draw the line at florida, just have it in atlanta if you want it to be in the south
100% this, please don't put major meetups in Florida.

Offline keebnewb

  • Posts: 33
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 06 June 2024, 12:33:57 »
As someone who uses meetups as an excuse to go travel I'd definitely be interested in going to Germany!

+1 on no to Florida

Also as someone who was not around on GH pre-pandemic I'm not super familiar with how voting was done in the past. From reading everyone's comments I'm wondering if NK could still act as like the primary co-host of Keycon and that we as a community could have host bids similar to how the Olympics is run? Host cities put out a bid, the community votes on it and then NK can assist with logistics? I think one of the big things is that the size of the community has vastly changed since before 2020 so having some consistency in terms of organizers like a co-host would probably be helpful for all of us.

Offline jacobsmirror

  • Posts: 121
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 06 June 2024, 13:07:57 »
Alrighty, friends. Based on the results of the poll, the KeyCon brand and responsibility for hosting the event comes back to the community. This is unfortunate, given that NK did a great job of bringing back the event in 2024 and planned to continue it in the US again in 2026 and beyond. That said, Mike and team have always done right by the community, and if this is what the community wants, then NK will honor the request and do the right thing again, as they have many times in the past. I would also like to thank GMK for offering to host Keycon in Germany, which Iím sure would have been a great event (and may continue under a different label with NK).

I am discussing options with a team of community members, some of whom were involved in the most recent and earlier KeyCon events, to structure a plan to take over organizing the event on behalf of the community. More details will be forthcoming once these plans have solidified.

Offline rmendis

  •  Moderator
  • Posts: 456
  • Artisan addict
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 06 June 2024, 13:20:03 »
I'd like to echo Jacbosmirror's sentiments above regarding the amazing job that the NK team did bringing Keycon back this year. By all accounts, it was a fantastic experience! Extra special thanks to Nephlock for all his hard work.

NK and GMK are respectively among the most supportive vendors and suppliers in the hobby, and I hope that they remain involved in whatever capacity they like, in whatever form Keycon takes going forward.

Much love

Offline BouncyChillups

  • Formerly PleasantChaos
  • Posts: 63
  • Location: Germany
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #42 on: Fri, 07 June 2024, 05:28:41 »
Thatís why Iím glad Iím out of this hobby.
NK revived it, it was a huge successs but because keyboard hobbyists are crybabies, itís now gonna die again. Nothing is gonna happen and keycon will go back down again.

Good job, itís true, the real hobby is complaining

Offline rmendis

  •  Moderator
  • Posts: 456
  • Artisan addict
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #43 on: Fri, 07 June 2024, 08:59:58 »
Thatís why Iím glad Iím out of this hobby.
NK revived it, it was a huge successs but because keyboard hobbyists are crybabies, itís now gonna die again. Nothing is gonna happen and keycon will go back down again.

Good job, itís true, the real hobby is complaining

You're based in Germany, right? There's still events happening in Europe, like Mechanicon in Frankfurt, and it sounds like NK still plans to have an event with GMK there. So sounds like quitting simply because some people complain, might be your loss, rather than focusing on the many positive aspects. =)

Offline Poesjuh

  • Posts: 730
  • Location: Netherlands - N-H
Keycon 2025
« Reply #44 on: Sat, 08 June 2024, 11:48:27 »
Imo thatís the same as saying that there are still other big events in NA happening. Afaik weíre talking about Keycon now, not alternatives.

Yes Iím in Europe and yes I could go to MKUK or Mechanicon. Doesnít mean that I wonít welcome Keycon in Europe which may draw a more international crowd and perhaps some more well known names.

And perhaps Iím mistaken but whether itís from NA to EU or vice versa, traveling from continent to continent for a keyboard meetup is afaik not something many people can do or are willing to do. (Both financially and from a time investment.)
« Last Edit: Sat, 08 June 2024, 11:52:36 by Poesjuh »

Offline SeedyOne

  • Posts: 483
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 09 June 2024, 00:09:58 »
Thatís why Iím glad Iím out of this hobby.
NK revived it, it was a huge successs but because keyboard hobbyists are crybabies, itís now gonna die again. Nothing is gonna happen and keycon will go back down again.

Good job, itís true, the real hobby is complaining

The irony of you, supposedly out of this hobby, complaining ignorantly about other complainers and becoming a literal crybaby is almost too much to take. Whatever will the hobby do without your lack of nuance and hyperbolic assumptions?

Offline SeedyOne

  • Posts: 483
  • Location: Los Angeles
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 09 June 2024, 01:15:18 »
Yes Iím in Europe and yes I could go to MKUK or Mechanicon. Doesnít mean that I wonít welcome Keycon in Europe which may draw a more international crowd and perhaps some more well known names.

And perhaps Iím mistaken but whether itís from NA to EU or vice versa, traveling from continent to continent for a keyboard meetup is afaik not something many people can do or are willing to do. (Both financially and from a time investment.)

I don't think anyone doubts there's benefits to KC in Europe and that it could draw a more international crowd/names. We should all want that some day, in some way, for the growth of the hobby. The issue here was the poor timing and planning of it, not some sort of EU/US or Keyboard/Artisan issue as some tried to paint it earlier.

The fact is, Keycon was a success in 2024 but immediately moving across the world, for exactly the reasons you said about international travel, is effectively like cancelling or skipping 2025 for people in the US. Many of which are who helped make KC what it was this year and now out of nowhere, POOF, everything changes. That's not to say Keycon can't or shouldn't ever move, but doing it so quickly and without any input or discussion of a sister/backup event in the origin country was a mistake and should have been called out.

As an old proverb once said, "We should learn to walk before we attempt to run..."


Offline rmendis

  •  Moderator
  • Posts: 456
  • Artisan addict
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 09 June 2024, 21:00:51 »
Imo thatís the same as saying that there are still other big events in NA happening. Afaik weíre talking about Keycon now, not alternatives.

Yes Iím in Europe and yes I could go to MKUK or Mechanicon. Doesnít mean that I wonít welcome Keycon in Europe which may draw a more international crowd and perhaps some more well known names.

And perhaps Iím mistaken but whether itís from NA to EU or vice versa, traveling from continent to continent for a keyboard meetup is afaik not something many people can do or are willing to do. (Both financially and from a time investment.)

Who said Keycon won't happen in EU (or other places) in the future? It might. Give it time. Let's see how things evolve. Hopefully, you'll stick around or join then. =)

Offline eczactly

  • Posts: 39
  • Location: United States
Re: Keycon 2025
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 13 June 2024, 10:23:49 »
Quoting Jobs:

"Some people say give the customers what they want, but that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, 'If I'd ask customers what they wanted, they would've told me a faster horse.' People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page."

Let's go to Germany. KeyCon shall not be bound by borders.