[IC] Fox Lab - Sand Glass Ergo (GB soon)

[senter]

Our First Ergo Layout Kit

Render:


Prototype:


Sand Glass Ergo is an 80% ergonomic layout keyboard kit design we designed in collaboration with designer KeepCalm.
I've always been hoping to create an ergo kit, and this is my first attempt.
We name this kit Sand Glass Ergo for the shape of its top exterior outline.

Layout

Even though I've been using an Alice-like layout (60% with arrow keys) keyboard for more than half a year now, I'm less experienced with ergo layout keyboards in general.
The present layout is obviously similar to many existing kits, but it is also personalized to KeepCalm's and my preferences.



This design isn't outrageous or exaggerated in any way.
We hope that it will be a board that most people can quickly become accustomed to, and that it will be a board that most people, including me, are willing to use as a daily driver.
That being said,

Plate & mounting & Structure

I like the skeleton plate design that we initially tested on Leaf 65.
Skeleton plates with improved flexibility will be available on Sand Glass Ergo.
The PCB will be 1.2mm thick for softer bottom out with the skeleton plate.



The mounting method is PORON sandwich.
To make the typing experience as even as possible, both the PCB and plate have been split into left and right parts.

Wrist Rest

Although the front of the board is not particularly high (18mm), I found that a wrist rest is still necessary for maximum comfort.
Because there is no compatible wrist rests on the market, the kit includes a specially developed wrist rest.
The kit was named Sand Glass also because of the way it looks with the wrist rest.



Forged Composite is considered as the material for the wrist rest.

Basic information:

1. Typing angle: 8 degree
2. Front height: 18mm without the wrist rest
3. Estimated price: 525 USD for the kit with the wrist rest

Highlights:

1. 80% Ergo layout
2. PORON sandwich + skeleton plate
3. No visible screws

To Do:

1. Collect feedbacks
2. Finish the skeleton plate design
3. Prototyping









We have a discord server now: https://discord.gg/gr6ZBB9xXy

[pngu]

We name this kit Sand Glass Ergo for the shape of its top exterior outline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farfalle

[MIGHTY CHICKEN]

So down for this

[Vono]

Looking nice, definitely an unique layout 

[jackedhardwarejunkie]

Looking good!! Love my ergo tkls

Sent from my SM-N975W using Tapatalk

[lukelex]

I’m in


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[Puddsy]

unironically i think this board is a perfect candidate for second Y

still rules regardless. fox lab forever

[CookieFlow]

Looks very good.

But I would maybe look into another accent color than black for the blue and beige models.

The Black/Red and White/Black works really well, but I feel there could be a better match than black for the blue and beige ones.

[Damage]

I just got ~$525 lighter, at some point in 2022.

[Zurg Eon]

Looks good! Thank you for bringing the left spacebar closer to the centre. It's really what's missing from the standard alice layout.

[dudewth]

Nice! I'm interested

[Zyrophr]

Looks cool with the wrist rest!

[vinhsanity]

unironically i think this board is a perfect candidate for second Y

still rules regardless. fox lab forever

I 2nd the second Y

[zea]

would it be possible to have the option of a 1u key next to the left spacebar instead of the 1u key next to the right spacebar?

[vi0till]

This will be all aluminum construction with no weight? Also, would appreciate if you can consider to use unified daughterboard.

[UberPlatypus]

Was the name perhaps meant to be Hourglass which is the name of the object in reference I presume?

Personally I think it sounds better too.

Great looking board! Very inclined to get one.

Sent from my HD1925 using Tapatalk

[catamscott]

looking super nice. curious to see what the color and plate material options will be

[tngpq]

Any chance of full right shift?

[lovetree]

I'm in! 

[the_useless_turtle]

I really like how this looks, I am just a little worried about its size. 80% Ergo sounds like it will be really wide. Any info on dimensions yet?

[Faceman76]

This is absolutely beautiful.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[darthcapn]

Lit! Waiting for gb!

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

[kisstheringz]

This nice.

[Damage]

Hey, folks. Just a quick note. Not sure whether it's been pointed out yet or not, but the name "sand glass" is probably not the best choice. In English, we'd typically call this sort of sand timer an "hourglass." The "hourglass" shape is commonly referenced to describe objects with this sort of profile.

I don't know if it matters or is too late or whatever, but calling it "hourglass" might be more elegant and appropriate in English.

[deathjester]

I need one of these!

[OhKeycaps]

I don't think I'll ever understand the whole 'B' on both sides thing. Just learn to use your left hand for b and be done with it.

[aa212121]

Hey, folks. Just a quick note. Not sure whether it's been pointed out yet or not, but the name "sand glass" is probably not the best choice. In English, we'd typically call this sort of sand timer an "hourglass." The "hourglass" shape is commonly referenced to describe objects with this sort of profile.

I don't know if it matters or is too late or whatever, but calling it "hourglass" might be more elegant and appropriate in English.

i like sand, and glass too; but "egg timer" sounds way better than both sandglass or hourglass.

[Faceman76]

I don't think I'll ever understand the whole 'B' on both sides thing. Just learn to use your left hand for b and be done with it.

It's tough to un-learn after 30 years of touch typing the wrong way. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[UberPlatypus]

Hey, folks. Just a quick note. Not sure whether it's been pointed out yet or not, but the name "sand glass" is probably not the best choice. In English, we'd typically call this sort of sand timer an "hourglass." The "hourglass" shape is commonly referenced to describe objects with this sort of profile.

I don't know if it matters or is too late or whatever, but calling it "hourglass" might be more elegant and appropriate in English.

Absolutely agree. Especially when adding Ergo to the end. Saying 'Hourglass Ergo' or referring to the board "Hey have you seen the new Hourglass Ergo" etc may be a bit more appropriate.

Sent from my HD1925 using Tapatalk

[Tree_]

Hey, folks. Just a quick note. Not sure whether it's been pointed out yet or not, but the name "sand glass" is probably not the best choice. In English, we'd typically call this sort of sand timer an "hourglass." The "hourglass" shape is commonly referenced to describe objects with this sort of profile.

I don't know if it matters or is too late or whatever, but calling it "hourglass" might be more elegant and appropriate in English.

i like sand, and glass too; but "egg timer" sounds way better than both sandglass or hourglass.

This is the one. Forget all the Hourglass requests.

[Ashardalon]

As always, Fox Labs continues to impress! The layout is well done and the wrist rest designed along with it is fantastic. I've just recently started typing on an AVA and certainly wouldn't mind having a rest for it, so this will be a welcome addition for the Sand Glass Ergo.

[hottrout]

Hell yes.

[OhKeycaps]

I don't think I'll ever understand the whole 'B' on both sides thing. Just learn to use your left hand for b and be done with it.

It's tough to un-learn after 30 years of touch typing the wrong way. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

When I was about 27 I switched to a split kb. I realized right away that I had been typing 'Y' with my left hand instead of my right. I got used to typing the right way within a day or two. So I don't really buy what you're saying. People just don't want to attempt to make the change, but it's really not hard.

[DraconicVision]

Dude this is sick!

I am super interested, how can we get pinged when this drops for GB?

[avtar]

This looks great but I feel the 1u key should be next to the left spacebar instead of the right one. The right side of the keyboard already has a Fn key. The left side could use that botton row Fn key.

[Poesjuh]

Hot. Friggin unit but hot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tyson]

100% will be jumping on this one! Can't wait!

[peacdesign]

Great looking board! Individual plates for each half looks interesting and look forward to seeing more!

[geshuni]

I'm interested. This would be my first ergo board =)

[gloomycloud]

A separation between insert-home cluster and print screen cluster would be nice, it looks too busy now

[Faceman76]

A separation between insert-home cluster and print screen cluster would be nice, it looks too busy now

That separation is helpful for touch typers.

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[10peaches]

Please make the right spacebar compatible with 2.75u too. As a right thumb spacebar user, this is very important for me.

[linell]

best layout ever 

[maximm]

ISO option please

[ylothar]

ISO option please

+1 

[Nurseh]

Snazzzy, I like it. Good work!

[senter]

Hey, folks. Just a quick note. Not sure whether it's been pointed out yet or not, but the name "sand glass" is probably not the best choice. In English, we'd typically call this sort of sand timer an "hourglass." The "hourglass" shape is commonly referenced to describe objects with this sort of profile.

I don't know if it matters or is too late or whatever, but calling it "hourglass" might be more elegant and appropriate in English.

I'm not sure about this. Isn't an hourglass basically a sandglass that can count for about 1 hour?

[senter]

ISO option please

Hmm, that will need a different top case.

[senter]

I really like how this looks, I am just a little worried about its size. 80% Ergo sounds like it will be really wide. Any info on dimensions yet?

Yes, it's much wider than a regular 80%. Leaf 80 was 360mm wide and ergo is 415mm.

[gwailo]

Love the design! Will it support full right shift?

[ylothar]

ISO option please

Hmm, that will need a different top case.

Yes, please!

[JSaintS]

ISO option please

Hmm, that will need a different top case.

Yes, please!

I'm not sure this will ever be a thing; I mean I've seen some alice-layout boards with ISO support, and I know there is the Virgo, but here it would ask a redesign of the right part of the top case for only a couple of ISO users (I was an ISO user but let's face it, we are a really small minority).

[Damage]

Hey, folks. Just a quick note. Not sure whether it's been pointed out yet or not, but the name "sand glass" is probably not the best choice. In English, we'd typically call this sort of sand timer an "hourglass." The "hourglass" shape is commonly referenced to describe objects with this sort of profile.

I don't know if it matters or is too late or whatever, but calling it "hourglass" might be more elegant and appropriate in English.

I'm not sure about this. Isn't an hourglass basically a sandglass that can count for about 1 hour?

“Hourglass” is a much more commonly used term in English, at least here in North America. “Sand glass” is relatively uncommon.

One of the top hits on Google for “sandglass” is a Korean TV series, which might explain why the word seems common to you? 

When I see the shape of this keyboard and wrist rest, I think “hourglass,” since that’s the word I’d use for that object. I expect other native English speakers would agree, for whatever it’s worth.

[ylothar]

I'm not sure this will ever be a thing; I mean I've seen some alice-layout boards with ISO support, and I know there is the Virgo, but here it would ask a redesign of the right part of the top case for only a couple of ISO users (I was an ISO user but let's face it, we are a really small minority).

I totally agree with you about ISO users, we are indeed a very small minority

But... if we can't ever have a chance... nothing will ever change. If I'm right, this project is still nearing completion, so why not make our voices heard? It would be nice to have a form to poll ISO interest for this forum - there really isn't much of a choice today, I hope the ISO lovers will make themselves heard!

[JSaintS]

I'm not sure this will ever be a thing; I mean I've seen some alice-layout boards with ISO support, and I know there is the Virgo, but here it would ask a redesign of the right part of the top case for only a couple of ISO users (I was an ISO user but let's face it, we are a really small minority).

I totally agree with you about ISO users, we are indeed a very small minority

But... if we can't ever have a chance... nothing will ever change. If I'm right, this project is still nearing completion, so why not make our voices heard? It would be nice to have a form to poll ISO interest for this forum - there really isn't much of a choice today, I hope the ISO lovers will make themselves heard!

Absolutely no harm in doing so, but I've also learn to not hope for ISO things to happen. In this particular case (pun intended), you would have to rework the border next to the pipe key to allow for the ISO Return key to fit which would mean either having no bezel there or shifting the entire TKL cluster to the right to allow for some space between the return key and the cluster.



While doable, for sure, this means Fox lab needs to design two top cases because that new design won't work for ANSI users (majority) and also means the ISO parts will be (much) more expensive and Fox lab will need to spend considerably more time during QC and, potentially, working with the factory if there is an issue with the ISO case (since you can't just order X more as a backup in case of issues and sell them later, without being sure they will sell).

In the end, it's always the same debate of "is it worth it for the designer/manufacturer" (yes, I hate myself for being the devil's advocate).

[CookieFlow]

Please tell me it supports split backspace ?

[marthike135]

.

[Tulesto]

This is an automatic cop for me! Very excited to see where this goes!

[HappyB0T]

We name this kit Sand Glass Ergo for the shape of its top exterior outline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farfalle

Yes! much more fun!

[CookieFlow]

Please tell me it supports split backspace ?

Why? its a TKL...

There are plenty of TKL's that support split backspace

[ylothar]

In the end, it's always the same debate of "is it worth it for the designer/manufacturer" (yes, I hate myself for being the devil's advocate).

Or ... it is always the same dog that bites its tail: why always think that it is not worth it? 

It would be enough just to say: "hey guys, the ISO variant can be done but it will cost more: is it okay with you?" and then let the users decide - and confirm - if there are the numbers to make it happen. 

[808San808]

Very interested

[Puddsy]

ISO adoption is typically about 3-5% on its best days so probably not worth redesigning the entire board (which includes also doing plate and PCB! not just case) to accommodate it

split BS is a smaller ask but again, i think it's a lot less common on TKLs. my no 1 has it but only because i've been too lazy to rebuild it with full BS. 60 users like to have it to make swapping boards easier.

[CLAP_STUDIO]

lili dpyz

[ylothar]

ISO adoption is typically about 3-5% on its best days so probably not worth redesigning the entire board (which includes also doing plate and PCB! not just case) to accommodate it

And again... what's the point? Even if it were only 1% - and those interested are willing to pay even more - what is the point of not considering the possibility regardless?

By continuing to think in this way for the ISO world it will be increasingly difficult to continue ...

[senter]

Update: prototype cases have been made. Please check the OP. The cases turn out to be just what we expected. I'm very happy with them. I'm still working on some details as well as the plate design. The prototype PCBs should be made soon as well.

[MIGHTY CHICKEN]

Great to see update, looking forward to this one


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[maximize]

Will we be able to select a color for the top accent bar?

[xjack312]

+1 hoping for split backspace, board looks beautiful

[darthcapn]

Isn't the blue tad darker than the renders, is that the blue finalized?

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[Tulesto]

I was originally in on the blue but that beige is so nice in the proto

[thornkin]

Looks amazing. Any sense how big the offering will be?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[esum]

Go go go! Wondering if you want to take advantage of that mid space like adding a "Genius Knob". similar to the DREVO knob but now in the middle.

[kcching]

This looks interesting! The wrist rest integration is genius!

[pngu]

I don't think I'll ever understand the whole 'B' on both sides thing. Just learn to use your left hand for b and be done with it.

It's tough to un-learn after 30 years of touch typing the wrong way. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

When I was about 27 I switched to a split kb. I realized right away that I had been typing 'Y' with my left hand instead of my right. I got used to typing the right way within a day or two. So I don't really buy what you're saying. People just don't want to attempt to make the change, but it's really not hard.

Whoa, you learned touch typing 3 years before you were born? Good genes I guess, lucky you!

[Poesjuh]

I don’t often really want a keyboard, but this one I really want! Very nice!


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[Faceman76]

I don't think I'll ever understand the whole 'B' on both sides thing. Just learn to use your left hand for b and be done with it.

It's tough to un-learn after 30 years of touch typing the wrong way. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

When I was about 27 I switched to a split kb. I realized right away that I had been typing 'Y' with my left hand instead of my right. I got used to typing the right way within a day or two. So I don't really buy what you're saying. People just don't want to attempt to make the change, but it's really not hard.

Whoa, you learned touch typing 3 years before you were born? Good genes I guess, lucky you!

You do realize you're referring to two different posters and two different lengths of experience, right?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[iamranger]

I'm definitely interested. The design looks great!

[vi0till]

can we have option for 2.75u spacebar on the right and 2.25u on left? thanks

[macclack]

Lit.

The left space bar is a good design choice

[senter]

Will we be able to select a color for the top accent bar?

we're only planning on providing the combinations shown in the renders this time.

[senter]

Isn't the blue tad darker than the renders, is that the blue finalized?

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We do want to re-adjust the color to better match the blue in the renders.

[senter]

We have a discord server now: https://discord.gg/gr6ZBB9xXy

[less_blank]

Nice to see alices in other layouts becoming more common. Would love if this came in silver with red accents.

[senter]

Update:

The prototype PCB has been remade and tested to be good. We will launch the GB mid this month.

[hottrout]

Looking really good.

[Jubileus]

Interested! Will there be an option for a 2.75u right shift? Seems kinda unnecessary since its a TKL anyway are there are lots of extra keys on the left side.

[SDKCAMPING]

This is huge in many ways, good new layout I could use for work and also literally huge

[maximm]

What about a brass bottom?

[FallenCow]

Would it be possible to offer 2.75u on the right spacebar or shift it over to the left completely and move the 1u key? The reason I ask is because for folks like me that use the right thumb for 80%+ of the spacebar presses it'll make it more comfortable.

[Sylanthra]

Any info on the PCB? Is it Via compatible? Is it hotswapable? Does it support per key RGB?

[granola bar enthusiast]

i still think many boards Alice boards could maybe employ something similar to the OwlRisu and have a sort of sticker for the gaps between keycaps? possibly color-matched to the case or sold in different colors to fit keycap sets?

[poeharl]

Any chance of a round 2?

[shendoo]

Absolutely love the design. But like it was already mentioned, I feel like the double B isn't necessary and also makes the look less symmetrical. I use the AV3 and you get used to the left B pretty quickly.
Also agree with people about changing the name to Hourglass, sounds much better. Anyhow, great design and will def be on the GB! Cheers

[Retrias]

The gb have already ended no ?

[ZavaZ86]

The gb have already ended no ?

Yes

[Rikvelasquez]

Will there be a round 2 or v2 planned as I am very interested but missed the GroupBuy