[IC] full PBT (spacebar included), gray or beige set

[yicaoyimu]

I don't understand the point of having full grey ergodox kit, unless this kit is significantly cheaper than the grey DSA PBT ergodox kit that will be steadily available on SP website.

matching the color?

Matt, would it be better to change the color scheme of Ergodox kit to something similar to that of Hyperfuse Ergodox kit? The grey DSA PBT ergodox kit will steadily available on SP website and I personally think it would be better to make something special in the GB.

Here is a pic of Hyperfuse ergodox kit, for your reference.

[Matt3o]

I know nothing about ergodox, I do whatever you want with it. I could add legends if you come up with a standard. (also in a GB they are supposed to be cheaper)

[justnits]

some other colour scheme for ergodoxian mods to be considered:-

this colour scheme is what i like


this is penumbra's


this is commando's



i'm not sure about legends for the mods since ergodox is all about customising your own layout.

probably something for the push and pop layer?

[CommonCurt]

Matt,

Are you going to add any GH caps?

[jdeblese]

Matt, would it be better to change the color scheme of Ergodox kit to something similar to that of Hyperfuse Ergodox kit? The grey DSA PBT ergodox kit will steadily available on SP website and I personally think it would be better to make something special in the GB.

Is it the same grey? Otherwise it's no good, as then you'll have alphas and mods from the base set of this GB but no matching 1.5x and 2x blanks. And wouldn't an additional color have it's own MOQ anyway, and thus there be no point in including it in this buy?


Re: legends, I'd like to see that as well and I've already suggested a few to Matt, but it's hard with how variable the layouts are. In addition to the existing set, I'd want 1.5x versions of delete and of various symbols like ' ", +=, -_ and brackets or slashes, and a 2x shift and return. Those are not universal, however, so I'm not holding my breath.

[Matt3o]

I could add a couple of colors to the ergodox, but that would increase the cost I suppose.

[Elrick]

I could add a couple of colors to the ergodox, but that would increase the cost I suppose.

I thought you were going to propose a cheap keyset in PBT?  If you start adding more colours then the price tag rises and about 50% will drop out complaining about the cost (catch-22 situation again).

Just keep the colours absolutely minimal because we all want a quality key-set (I know it's SP) and it's more to do with font, type placement and classical looks that will last for years rather than flashy bits that get forgotten soon enough.  I know you are a designer of sorts so please don't get swayed by noobs wanting a "technicolour raincoat" for $40.00 a set  .

[justnits]

I could add a couple of colors to the ergodox, but that would increase the cost I suppose.

hmm, what do you mean by adding more colours?

would it be possible to add 8 or 10 1x modifier gray coloured blanks to ergodox kit?
perhaps on some of the 1.5x blanks, maybe we can put "Ergo" "Dox" "Geek" "Hack" as legend? they are general enough.
just a suggestion i'm ok with blanks too if u think it's not feasible to put those legends.

[Matt3o]

I could add a couple of colors to the ergodox, but that would increase the cost I suppose.

hmm, what do you mean by adding more colours?

would it be possible to add 8 or 10 1x modifier gray coloured blanks to ergodox kit?
perhaps on some of the 1.5x blanks, maybe we can put "Ergo" "Dox" "Geek" "Hack" as legend? they are general enough.
just a suggestion i'm ok with blanks too if u think it's not feasible to put those legends.

All kits are available in blank, so there's no point on adding 1u to the ergodox (just take one of the others).

Again, since ALL kits are available in blank I see no issues at adding legends to the ergodox (you can buy it with and without legends). But no GH or DT keys.

[justnits]

I could add a couple of colors to the ergodox, but that would increase the cost I suppose.

hmm, what do you mean by adding more colours?

would it be possible to add 8 or 10 1x modifier gray coloured blanks to ergodox kit?
perhaps on some of the 1.5x blanks, maybe we can put "Ergo" "Dox" "Geek" "Hack" as legend? they are general enough.
just a suggestion i'm ok with blanks too if u think it's not feasible to put those legends.

All kits are available in blank, so there's no point on adding 1u to the ergodox (just take one of the others).

Again, since ALL kits are available in blank I see no issues at adding legends to the ergodox (you can buy it with and without legends). But no GH or DT keys.

ahh! gotcha! then it's all good

[fart_toast]

I could add a couple of colors to the ergodox, but that would increase the cost I suppose.

I thought you were going to propose a cheap keyset in PBT?  If you start adding more colours then the price tag rises and about 50% will drop out complaining about the cost (catch-22 situation again).

Just keep the colours absolutely minimal because we all want a quality key-set (I know it's SP) and it's more to do with font, type placement and classical looks that will last for years rather than flashy bits that get forgotten soon enough.  I know you are a designer of sorts so please don't get swayed by noobs wanting a "technicolour raincoat" for $40.00 a set  .

Actually really agree with this! Good point.

[squarefrog]

I think that hyperfuse set is ideal. Using the secondary color as an accent rather than forcing all the unlabelled to be a the secondary color. Although I do think that single blue key in the grey layout is beautiful.

For legends it might be prudent to just go with commons - tab, caps lock, 2x shift - all in 1.5x.

[DamienG]

-1 for Gotham Rounded, WYSE or Cherry Legends on this set.

They are a great choice for when you need to flow plastic in double-shots but as an actual typeface aren't great.

Given this set is dye-sub it would be a missed opportunity to not choose a really great font that doesn't need to be limited by plastic flow and instead choose something that has a beautiful design to really make this set stand-out from the crowd.

Univers would be a great cohice. HP used it on their early PC keyboards and Apple used an italic condensed version on their Extended both to great effect.




[)amien

[jdeblese]

For legends it might be prudent to just go with commons - tab, caps lock, 2x shift - all in 1.5x.

Many are already available in 1.5x, either in the base set or pro kit. Shift, delete and escape could be added, however.

[LechnerDE]

-1 for Gotham Rounded, WYSE or Cherry Legends on this set.

They are a great choice for when you need to flow plastic in double-shots but as an actual typeface aren't great.

Given this set is dye-sub it would be a missed opportunity to not choose a really great font that doesn't need to be limited by plastic flow and instead choose something that has a beautiful design to really make this set stand-out from the crowd.

Univers would be a great cohice. HP used it on their early PC keyboards and Apple used an italic condensed version on their Extended both to great effect.

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[)amien

Fonts are personal taste of course, but that Apple Keyboard has really ugly legends in my opinion.

For me this is just as ugly as those atrocities from Vortex...

[jacobolus]

-1 for Gotham Rounded, WYSE or Cherry Legends on this set.

Note, you might want to make it clear that you’re -1 on Gotham Rounded, -1 on Cherry, and -1 on WYSE. Your comment could easily be interpreted as "use WYSE or Cherry instead".

Anyhow, I agree. However, given that Matt seems to like Gotham Rounded, and this is his show, it is what it is. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to pick a geometric-ish sans like Gotham though (though I like Futura/Avenir better for this purpose I think).

But sure for a dye-sub there’s certainly room for typefaces with more delicate and distinctive features, which would make more of a statement. I don’t think Univers is the most interesting possible choice though, especially for letters centered on DSA keycaps.

Heck, if SP’s dye-subs can pull enough DPI, why not go for something like Optima (it may be overused in plenty of contexts, but I think Optima keycaps would be pretty sweet), etc.

[jacobolus]

For me [old Apple keycap legends are] just as ugly as those atrocities from Vortex...

Now you’re just asking for a fist-fight.

[jacobolus]

Given this set is dye-sub it would be a missed opportunity to not choose a really great font that doesn't need to be limited by plastic flow

By the way, there are Apple IIGS keyboards (A9M0330) which use the condensed Univers italic which are very thick double-injection molded ABS, with legends that are actually quite a bit crisper than the dye-subbed PBT versions. So I’m not sure plastic flow was really the limiting feature here.

[DamienG]

Fonts are personal taste of course, but that Apple Keyboard has really ugly legends in my opinion.

For me this is just as ugly as those atrocities from Vortex...

Univers was designed by a world-renowned type designer and is a top selling font used by designers across the world.  VAG Rounded was a corporate font for the Volkswagen group...

The Apple keyboards used an italic condensed version which I admit isn't as nice.

Futura would be another nice option, as would Frutiger 65 or one of the other Swiss Gothics.

Yes, I'm -1 on all the usual bubble-fonts we're forced to use for double-shots. This set is going to feel special, it should look it!

[)amien

[LechnerDE]

For me [old Apple keycap legends are] just as ugly as those atrocities from Vortex...

Now you’re just asking for a fist-fight.

 

[justnits]

personally i am a bit tired of seeing cherry font to be honest LOL!
i prefer wyse font but this is matt3o's set...he can do whatever he wants and as of now, i can still accept gotham.

[jacobolus]

Futura would be another nice option, as would Frutiger 65 or one of the other Swiss Gothics.

Yes, I'm -1 on all the usual bubble-fonts we're forced to use for double-shots. This set is going to feel special, it should look it!

If you’ll take Futura, then Gotham (the non-rounded version) shouldn’t be too far out. Futura and Frutiger are pretty darn far apart.

[jdeblese]

Am I one of the only ones that likes Gotham Rounded? I think the rounded shape fits the curved outlines of DSA caps better than a geometric font would, and it is a much nicer font than the standard doubleshot font.

probably something for the push and pop layer?

Any ideas for legends on these keys? Maybe just "push" and "pop"?

[Matt3o]

I'm not set on the typeface. The IC on this set started last year and at the end we settled on a "round" font (to get some retro flavor) and of all rounded, Gotham was one of the best.

Please remember that these are symmetrical, spherical top keys (DSA), very different from the standard cherry profile (or DCS), and the font has been selected with that in mind.

Some of the tests we made (but I personally tested dozens of them)

[squarefrog]

Many are already available in 1.5x, either in the base set or pro kit. Shift, delete and escape could be added, however.

OK fair enough - I struggle to figure out the widths from the pictures.

[Elrick]

I'm not set on the typeface. The IC on this set started last year and at the end we settled on a "round" font (to get some retro flavor) and of all rounded, Gotham was one of the best.

Again we are all grateful with your choice in font and I'm at least happy with it (although I'm a sucker for more VAG  ).  DSA will just frame each letter and number perfectly.  3/4 of us wouldn't know what a carefully designed key-set would look like, hence your guidance is required here.

We all want a PBT set to keep for a long time on our keyboards and I'm hoping this is the one  .

[Matt3o]

Also guys... the SP PBT spacebar is one of the least bent/distorted PBT spacebar I've seen so far. Kodos to SP engineers, they did a really great job.

Later today, more updated layouts.

[jdeblese]

OK fair enough - I struggle to figure out the widths from the pictures.

Ditto - I've been using a little piece of paper with various markings to measure

[ideus]

I like this one. What name is it?

[Elrick]

Also guys... the SP PBT spacebar is one of the least bent/distorted PBT spacebar I've seen so far. Kodos to SP engineers, they did a really great job.

Photos or it never happened.....  Really want to see this so-called "engineered PBT Spacebar" with no bend/distortion  .

[Elrick]

I like this one. What name is it?

It's already labelled by Matt3o, it's a VAG font, nice isn't it?

[Matt3o]

Also guys... the SP PBT spacebar is one of the least bent/distorted PBT spacebar I've seen so far. Kodos to SP engineers, they did a really great job.

Photos or it never happened.....  Really want to see this so-called "engineered PBT Spacebar" with no bend/distortion  .

[ideus]

I like this one. What name is it?

It's already labelled by Matt3o, it's a VAG font, nice isn't it?

It is very nice, well saturated that will make the sublimation process to work at its best.

[Elrick]

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Finally a PBT Spacebar done to perfection.  Nice, SP is really picking up their game now.

[justnits]

i kinda like gotham light and helvetica neue...but i'm not sure if the dyesub can make the thin font looks sharp...

[DamienG]

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I normally avoid Helvetica as it's overused these days but it does make nice looking caps.

[)amien

[samwisekoi]

-1 for Gotham Rounded, WYSE or Cherry Legends on this set.

They are a great choice for when you need to flow plastic in double-shots but as an actual typeface aren't great.

Given this set is dye-sub it would be a missed opportunity to not choose a really great font that doesn't need to be limited by plastic flow and instead choose something that has a beautiful design to really make this set stand-out from the crowd.

Univers would be a great cohice. HP used it on their early PC keyboards and Apple used an italic condensed version on their Extended both to great effect.

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[)amien

That HP is nice -- is it yours?

 - Ron | samwisekoi

[ideus]

-1 for Gotham Rounded, WYSE or Cherry Legends on this set.

They are a great choice for when you need to flow plastic in double-shots but as an actual typeface aren't great.

Given this set is dye-sub it would be a missed opportunity to not choose a really great font that doesn't need to be limited by plastic flow and instead choose something that has a beautiful design to really make this set stand-out from the crowd.

Univers would be a great cohice. HP used it on their early PC keyboards and Apple used an italic condensed version on their Extended both to great effect.

Show Image

[)amien

That HP is nice -- is it yours?

 - Ron | samwisekoi

Are the HP board legends DS?

[Matt3o]

Working on the icon set, there's really a lot of work to do. Some are too thick others too thin, some rounded other squared... gosh

[jacobolus]

I know it’s the classic standard, but is there any particular reason for icon versions of the ‘tab’ key to also show a ‘back-tab’ icon? Back in the day it made some sense since there had been computers (in the 70s?) with 2 separate keys, one for previous field and one for next field, or whatever. But at this point I’d expect that just the forward tab icon to be enough.

Also, if you’re drawing inspiration from Apple’s symbol for the Alt/Option key, and for Home/End/PgUp/PgDn/Delete, you may also want to look at their Caps Lock symbol, which is a shift arrow w/ an additional rectangle beneath; to me it makes more logical sense than the downward pointing arrow.

[ideus]

Working on the icon set, there's really a lot of work to do. Some are too thick others too thin, some rounded other squared... gosh

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I may help on editing graphic files, just let me know the type, resolution and it they need an alpha channel.

[jacobolus]

I may help on editing graphic files, just let me know the type, resolution and it they need an alpha channel.

Presumably would be most useful as a vector format like PDF, SVG, etc.?

[ideus]

SVG or PS formats can be edited and generated with inkscape. Depending on the source of the original image it may need to be redrawn.

[rowdy]

Working on the icon set, there's really a lot of work to do. Some are too thick others too thin, some rounded other squared... gosh

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Oooh look!

Mac Option keys!

I don't think I've seen a set with those before!

[Elrick]

Working on the icon set, there's really a lot of work to do. Some are too thick others too thin, some rounded other squared... gosh

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Oooh look!

Mac Option keys!

I don't think I've seen a set with those before!

Yep that's Matt3o for you, always designing new key-sets for the majority of users.  This is why his Group Buys tries to please everyone everywhere.

If people want something unique then this may be the Group Buy for them.

[DamienG]

-1 for Gotham Rounded, WYSE or Cherry Legends on this set.

They are a great choice for when you need to flow plastic in double-shots but as an actual typeface aren't great.

Given this set is dye-sub it would be a missed opportunity to not choose a really great font that doesn't need to be limited by plastic flow and instead choose something that has a beautiful design to really make this set stand-out from the crowd.

Univers would be a great cohice. HP used it on their early PC keyboards and Apple used an italic condensed version on their Extended both to great effect.

Show Image

[)amien

That HP is nice -- is it yours?

 - Ron | samwisekoi

That exact board is not but I have an identical one in my cupboard. Just love the legends and the key profile. Unfortunately a rubber dome albeit a nicer one.

[)amien

[DamienG]

Working on the icon set, there's really a lot of work to do. Some are too thick others too thin, some rounded other squared... gosh

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Some very nice legends there Matt3o!

[)amien

[PhineasRex]

Compose key which size? 1u?

1u would be great. That is the only size key that fits on a Tipro!

Also, the symbol keys look great.

[justnits]

Working on the icon set, there's really a lot of work to do. Some are too thick others too thin, some rounded other squared... gosh

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matt, u didn't want the scroll lock's padlock to be on capslock?

[Matt3o]

Working on the icon set, there's really a lot of work to do. Some are too thick others too thin, some rounded other squared... gosh

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matt, u didn't want the scroll lock's padlock to be on capslock?

I think I'll find something better for the scroll lock, still working on it